Kazuya vS Akuma

Right, because events always happen twice in Tekken. My word, the actual idea of new canon overriding old canon never even crosses your mind... Now I see why you are having difficulty understanding the basic principals of the rules of canonicity...

as for your jin/kaz theory, let me point out something very simple to you:
1) kaz doesn't give a shite about jin's plans. he wants his power back. the intro shows KAZUYA's squadron attacking Jin.
2) what makes you think the battle was to the finish? also from the looks of it, its pretty obvious jin wasn't on Zaibatsu grounds. its pretty obvious that somehow Kaz got him cornered and attacked. all these things make sense...if you have sense 🙂
3) and lastly, since its in the intro and we've never doubted anything shown in intros before why are we starting now? because its better than anything ryu's done? 😉

as for endings, i'm not the one who's got his fact all wrong.

1. Jin and Kazuya's full-powered stomps shattered the building glass, not their missed blows. Missed punches doing that is impossible........even though Jin punched the roof ground prior to the stomping and it didn't shatter much more than a little bit of the ground itself.

2. Akuma crushed an island with his physical strength.

Just let it go Lancer.

LOL. his satsui-no-fanboy knows no bounds 😂

Yes it does, though yeah he does have da powa.

Sorry I meant "Akuma crushed/sunk an island which is factually bigger than the Zaibatsu compound and the area surrounding it/shifted the Earth's crust" with his physical strength, even though Ryu's ending does not state Akuma let alone his strength was the cause of the demolition. Only a shit scan of his fist on the ground is shown, but logic would say Akuma was the cause (and fully or mostly due to his strength and not his ki, even though the sprite relevant to the attack involves spreaking ki). Actually, it's a fact as well and I can't prove it. However logic would not say that in Kazuya's T4 ending, Devil caused the area to vanish, nor is this speculated power level on a canon level because Tekken is not on the level of Street Fighter, even though what I said makes no sense and sounds like fanboy rubbish, because, I don't know. It's not fact like Akuma doing push-ups and pushing down the Earth like the online version of Chuck Norris. 😆

Originally posted by Hell Lancer
basic principles of the rules of canoncity according to who? you?
gtfo.

According to any debate involving fiction, you ignorant troll...

Originally posted by Hell Lancer
look, all i'm saying is that we know from following the past 5 canonical games that events shown INGAME aren't necessarily what happened. take tekken2 for instance. for years people have been assuming that Heihachi fought Devil Kazuya after beating Kazuya and we find out (like i've always said) that he never did.
stop being a moron and try to see what i'm saying.

Ok, so even though your NOW saying that some events are canon, Opening are always canon? You come up with some of the craziest bullshit you know that?

Originally posted by Hell Lancer
as for your jin/kaz theory, let me point out something very simple to you:
1) kaz doesn't give a shite about jin's plans. he wants his power back. the intro shows KAZUYA's squadron attacking Jin.

Uhuh, and yet you have not A: proven the battle took place, and B: given no logical reason for Jin roving the streets alone, and C: definitely have no reason for him to show up on Kazuya's doorstep and ATTACKING him at the top of a G Corp stronghold building....

Right, Kazuya initiated THAT attack.... Clearly....

Originally posted by Hell Lancer
2) what makes you think the battle was to the finish? also from the looks of it, its pretty obvious jin wasn't on Zaibatsu grounds. its pretty obvious that somehow Kaz got him cornered and attacked. all these things make sense...if you have sense 🙂

Read above... The actual scene that sparked this whole debate was Jin and Kaz fighting on Kaz's helipad. I never said it was a Zaibatzu building, Jin is ATTACKING a G Corp facility.... Solo. Thats not what any leader does during a war, and it would DEFINITELY have been elaborated on in later events if it happened. AND we know that he was not ready for Azazel prior to T6BR. If he where, why bother with a massive military buildup? he would have just ridden to Kazuya, and fought with him, then move onto Azazel right away and not bothered with a tournament either...

I refuse to beleive you are THIS ignorant, so I'm going to now assume your pulling crap out of your ass to save yourself.

Originally posted by Hell Lancer
3) and lastly, since its in the intro and we've never doubted anything shown in intros before why are we starting now? because its better than anything ryu's done? 😉

Why are you bringing up Ryu? He has nothing to do with this... Your obsessed...

I have always taken intro's with a grain of salt, Unless it's coroborated by events prior to, or after the events that confirm or deny that they happened, then why should we take tham in? I'll give you an example: the Street Fighter 4 intro depicting Gouki fighting Gouken never happened, because A: they never clashed in a Volcano, and B: It's unconfirmed wether or not they actually clashed anywhere else.

Now I could use that scene to literally shatter Kazuya's EVER winning against Gouki for a number of reasons. I am not because I cannot prove it happened. It would be no different from me using CVS or MVC2 level abilities. Sure the same development teams made those games, but thats not a license to say they can do as depicted if we are using the characters from a pure Street Fighter standpoint, since they have not actually performed those abilities.

Originally posted by Hell Lancer
as for endings, i'm not the one who's got his fact all wrong.

And what fact did I get wrong?

Originally posted by FWahMaN
1. Jin and Kazuya's full-powered stomps shattered the building glass, not their missed blows. Missed punches doing that is impossible........even though Jin punched the roof ground prior to the stomping and it didn't shatter much more than a little bit of the ground itself.

Exactly my point....

#1: if they are throwing around glass shattering punches by this point, then every atack they perform would have the same effect. Yet at no other time, either during or after this event happening does this occur. This is also ignoring the general flow of events prior to Tekken 6, it ignores similar attacks on screen, it ignores the most basic principal of physics for it to even work, application of force. Since there is no sonic boom, it is not the force of the punch itself that has done this.

It would have made more sense if someone had said it was done as a powerup, but nope "Itwas da force of teh punch!" was what I got, and thats not correct by any stretch of the imagination.

Originally posted by FWahMaN
2. Akuma crushed an island with his physical strength.

Nemebro made that argument, not me, and if you know your history, you would see that I have actually disputed this, although clearly not for the same reasons as Sado, and definitely using different methods for doing so.

Originally posted by Hell Lancer
LOL. his satsui-no-fanboy knows no bounds 😂

Reported for trolling.... You need to STFU now before you get banned a second time.

Originally posted by FWahMaN
Sorry I meant "Akuma crushed/sunk an island which is factually bigger than the Zaibatsu compound and the area surrounding it/shifted the Earth's crust" with his physical strength, even though Ryu's ending does not state Akuma let alone his strength was the cause of the demolition. Only a shit scan of his fist on the ground is shown, but logic would say Akuma was the cause (and fully or mostly due to his strength and not his ki, even though the sprite relevant to the attack involves spreaking ki). Actually, it's a fact as well and I can't prove it. However logic would not say that in Kazuya's T4 ending, Devil caused the area to vanish, nor is this speculated power level on a canon level because Tekken is not on the level of Street Fighter, even though what I said makes no sense and sounds like fanboy rubbish, because, I don't know. It's not fact like Akuma doing push-ups and pushing down the Earth like the online version of Chuck Norris. 😆

Your ignorance only proves that you cannot debate without resorting to snide-assed remarks reguarding a fallacy I never stated.

Seriously, either go blame someone who actually used that in an argument and get the hell off your high horse, or get yourself reported... I don't particularly care which, but using arguments I never made is very bad news, and I will not tolerate bullshit.

Usin' chi is not usin' strength, now? Sounds like no one in this thread knows what chi is. Been watchin' too much anime, huh? Everything you do is powered by chi, like pickin' up a pencil or liftin' weights...rather you want to or not, your usin' chi.

Wait, that's like sayin' your not usin' your mind when you think, your just usin' your brain? LMAO.

you have STILL NOT provided any evidence as to why openings are not canon and the only thing you've provided is contradicting BS, a thorough lack of knowledge (Mr-jack-me-jane-at-the-end-of-t1) and general half-assed flaming which is become a staple of your "debating" tactics.
and for reporting trolling, look back at this thread and look at the number of flames you've thrown my way, buddy. compared to that calling you a fanboy AFTER pointing out the holes in your argument. be grateful i have patience for your types 😉

you're the one being a troll: you don't know shit and you flame. this isn't even funny now.

Usin' chi is not usin' strength, now?

Originally posted by Hell Lancer
you have STILL NOT provided any evidence as to why openings are not canon and the only thing you've provided is contradicting BS, a thorough lack of knowledge (Mr-jack-me-jane-at-the-end-of-t1) and general half-assed flaming which is become a staple of your "debating" tactics.
and for reporting trolling, look back at this thread and look at the number of flames you've thrown my way, buddy. compared to that calling you a fanboy AFTER pointing out the holes in your argument. be grateful i have patience for your types 😉

I did not know that calling you what you are acting like is a flame.... Meh, reguardless...

Point out to me where I said Jack met Jane at the end of T1 please.... If you red what I said instead of paying attention to the delusions that cloud your judgement, I said they met in T2...

Nothing I have said is contradictory. This is your biggest problem right here, your spouting stuff that either A: I have not said, or B: You've pulled out of your hindquarters in a bullshit attempt to cover yourself and failing miserably at.

Lack of knowlege? Your the one who cannot seem to chain the sequence of events together in any meaningful fashion...

Ok, Let me make this perfectly clear. It is YOUR job to provide evidence for Kazuya. Not mine. If you want to use that feat, you have to justify it's existance, which, as it stands, has nothing to base itself on... You have one scene that is not supported by any chain of events within the Tekken story, You've resorted to attacking phantom myths, flaming, bringing up characters that have nothing to do with the thread, AND attacking a credible feat from Akuma, despite the fact that it IS official, it DID happen within the story, and has been corroborated by at least ONE similar feat.

Originally posted by Hell Lancer
you're the one being a troll: you don't know shit and you flame. this isn't even funny now.

Right, I'm the troll despite the fact that I actually have presented credible and confirmed evidence, while your spouting off about a single uncoroborated scene, attacking my level of knowlege, and even lying through your teeth... Not one of the "Attacks" you have used have even been about an argument I've made, Instead you've generalised every streetfighter fanboy into one group, and because I'm debating against you here, you've decided to lump me in and dredging up arguments that are months and even years old... Funny really, considering you've only been here a grand total of 5 months in all... Most of the shit you would have had absolutely NO knowlege of at all...

Trolling...so saying something similar to what he and the other guy would argue is trolling...I guess that's all they've been doing here then. If that's not what he meant and that's if he even accused, then never mind...I can't see any of their posts as for some reason it hurts my eyes and brain...

Originally posted by FWahMaN
Trolling...so saying something similar to what he and the other guy would argue is trolling...I guess that's all they've been doing here then. If that's not what he meant and that's if he even accused, then never mind...I can't see any of their posts as for some reason it hurts my eyes and brain...

No, trolling is continually spouting the same stuff over and over, not providing anything constructive, and flaming relentlessly until A: his opponent quits due to attrition, or B: he gets banned.

Now, I beleive I have made my point PERECTLY clear here, I don't know why it is so difficult for you two to either understand & accept this, or provide me with SOMETHING that explains the event in the story... Seriously, Other than a 5 second cinematic in an opening there is literally nothing to justify the event.... More powerful attacks have done less damage structurally to a building within Tekken itself, by more powerful characters I may add...

In response to someone's question, apparently not, because when someone in DBZ for instance uses their ki to bust up a city or planet, it is not understood as they used their strength, but their inner ki/chi/whatever as emmitted energy used to eradicate things. Punching the ground regardless of how strong you are will only affect the immediate area being punched, not the entire landmass, especially if this same punch isn't going to eradicate a person on impact and I doubt a certain punch does, and even if this is the case, you can be strong enough to lift 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000.......000,000,000 tons and not be able to demolish Hawaii by punching the ground somewhere. You need a method of spreading whatever energy you have and that's what Akuma's sprite basically shows. I doubt it's a different technique he used, also.

Goku in base form apparently has trouble lifting 40 tons (heard it from Superman supporters in a Goku vs Supes thread) yet this same form could eradicate a planet with ki. Now if someone has the strength to demolish a huge island, think for a moment how much he could actually destroy with ki, although comparing SF with DBZ probably isn't the best thing to do.

Probably not....

However, I was (And am) An advocate of the energy dispersal argument for that event, it stands to reason that it was more a factor of his ki being focust there at the point of impact and spreading out, rather than the "Incredible Hulk" moment someone thought it was (I forget who, Maybe Nemebro?)

Anyways, it still doesn't detract from the feat itself.

Bored as hell...they gave Heihachi accessories that awfully make him look like Akuma. Prayer beads, default gi, sandals, sayjin hair and gauntlet gloves. You can even get the right colors........and shave his mustache off to being closer to Akuma in appearance.

Akuma should also take up capoeira.

Originally posted by FWahMaN
Goku in base form apparently has trouble lifting 40 tons (heard it from Superman supporters in a Goku vs Supes thread) yet this same form could eradicate a planet with ki. Now if someone has the strength to demolish a huge island, think for a moment how much he could actually destroy with ki, although comparing SF with DBZ probably isn't the best thing to do.

Goku may only lift 40 tons but striking strength != lifting strength. Goku who only lift 40 tons managed to bruised Frieza with punches and kicks. And Frieza in a very weakened form, battered, and cut in two, survived the planet explosion and I'm talking about Frieza saga Goku. And if lifting strength = punching strength, then Goku won't hurt Frieza who had more than just a planet durability.

and since this is about Kazuya and Akuma, I won't make more DBZ comments anymore. But if you asked me who wins this battle, hard to choose, but I have to say Gouki. Even though Kazuya will give him a good fight.

They're not quite the same yes but the product is basically mass times speed, when talking about striking power. Something as small as Akuma cannot crush an island with a blow. I highly doubt that is possible physically. He had to have some way of spreading his energy across. This is no different than Goku shooting a ki blast and destroying an area.

Originally posted by Hell Lancer

i think he meant ki to be honest.

Chi, Ki, Qi etc, is all the same. "Chi" is the Chinese way (REAL WAY) of sayin' "Ki".

Originally posted by FWahMaN
In response to someone's question, apparently not, because when someone in DBZ for instance uses their ki to bust up a city or planet, it is not understood as they used their strength, but their inner ki/chi/whatever as emmitted energy used to eradicate things. Punching the ground regardless of how strong you are will only affect the immediate area being punched, not the entire landmass, especially if this same punch isn't going to eradicate a person on impact and I doubt a certain punch does, and even if this is the case, you can be strong enough to lift 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000.......000,000,000 tons and not be able to demolish Hawaii by punching the ground somewhere. You need a method of spreading whatever energy you have and that's what Akuma's sprite basically shows. I doubt it's a different technique he used, also.

Goku in base form apparently has trouble lifting 40 tons (heard it from Superman supporters in a Goku vs Supes thread) yet this same form could eradicate a planet with ki. Now if someone has the strength to demolish a huge island, think for a moment how much he could actually destroy with ki, although comparing SF with DBZ probably isn't the best thing to do.

This is wrong in so many ways and you're right, comparing SF with DBZ probably isn't the best thing to do and not for the reasons you think. Chi is REAL (or at least a real world concept). Usin' DBZ as an example is horrible in every way to describe what Chi is. Nothin' you do in this world can be done with out Chi.

1.Breathing requires chi

2.Opening your eyes requires chi

3.Akuma destroyin' an island with a punch requires Chi, the same way breathing does.

Raw strength IS Chi but Chi is not raw strength. The Incredible Hulk uses Chi to lift tanks and buildings. Raw Strength is powered by Chi just like everything else humans do. Akuma is physically Strong enough to destroy the island because he can adequately/effectively use his chi better than a regular man. There is no such thing as "just raw strength" with out Chi. At least not in the way SF uses it.

I did not know that calling you what you are acting like is a flame.... Meh, reguardless...

Ok, Let me make this perfectly clear. It is YOUR job to provide evidence for Kazuya. Not mine.

If you want to use that feat, you have to justify it's existance, which, as it stands, has nothing to base itself on... You have one scene that is not supported by any chain of events within the Tekken story, You've resorted to attacking phantom myths, flaming, bringing up characters that have nothing to do with the thread, AND attacking a credible feat from Akuma, despite the fact that it IS official, it DID happen within the story, and has been corroborated by at least ONE similar feat.

Darkstorm Zero said:

#6: By the end of Tekken 1 Jack & Jane where already together, uncorroborated