Howgarts wizards versus Sidious and the Jedi Order...

Ah, the sweet smell of concession....

YouTube video

Check out the fiendfyre, babe. Twenty or so of those, the Jedi force pushing all of them?

AAAAAAAAAAAHA!!!

Sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo......The Jedi will have to contend with:

1. The fiendfyre in the vid x 20
2. Tens of thousands of civilians who have been set against them via the Oppugno spell.
3. The OOTP wizards apparating and half apparating around everywhere, casting a shitload of spells.
4. Being WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY outnumbered.
5. The confundus charm.
6. I forgot, Dumbledore can Arresto Momentum their ass one at a time, from a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG way away, slow their movements almost to a halt, if not totally.
7.A shitload of other things I can mention.

But hey, they're Jedi, right? 🙄 They can do anything!!! wanker

Yes I can see your "I, RJ, am wanking again over Wizards" Emoti.

Very apt.

You are Satan, Galactus and George Burns as god of strawman dumbarse theory regarded as fact (soley by you) and with every post you open your lizard like gizzard to a blizzard from a wizard.

And you are still dodging.

Your childish masturbation sign is the sign of concession, if anything.

Dodging, by posting powers numerous powers, that would spell the end of the Jedi? K.

Magical spells!!!

But youve declined a simple question repeatedly. Thats how youre a dodger.

Is the Easterbunny on your front line too..?

Only thing that video proved, wizards are slow compared to Jedi.

Originally posted by Robtard
The Force works within line of sight.

I was fine with everything you were saying until you posted this.

This is wrong. The force does NOT use line of sight.

How does a Jedi/Sith block blaster bolt fire from behind if it is line of sight?

How did young Luke Skywalker (with only 5 minutes of force training, lulz) block those blaster bolts with a face shield that completely blocked all of his sight?

How did Obi and Ani know that Padme was about to get centipede rape without even being in her room?

How did Vader grab and throw, completely with the force, those multiple objects, at Luke when many of them were behind Vader, or out of his line of sight?

Exactly. A Jedi/Sith doesn't even have to see the shit coming at them. No line of sight required. 313

And Vader crushed an officer's throat over a VDU/monitor....from miles away on his massive star destroyer avenger.

And Yoda watching Luke grow up on Tatooine from Dagobah etc.

However Robtard didnt say "...ONLY works within line of sight."

Doooooooomed the wizards are.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I was fine with everything you were saying until you posted this.

This is wrong. The force does NOT use line of sight.

How does a Jedi/Sith block blaster bolt fire from behind if it is line of sight?

How did young Luke Skywalker (with only 5 minutes of force training, lulz) block those blaster bolts with a face shield that completely blocked all of his sight?

How did Obi and Ani know that Padme was about to get centipede rape without even being in her room?

How did Vader grab and throw, completely with the force, those multiple objects, at Luke when many of them were behind Vader, or out of his line of sight?

Exactly. A Jedi/Sith doesn't even have to see the shit coming at them. No line of sight required. 313

You're correct. I was more saying it in terms of specific attack Force-powers, eg Force-crush.

Originally posted by Robtard
You're correct. I was more saying it in terms of specific attack Force-powers, eg Force-crush.

Cool.

I'm going to have to go out on a limb here and make things turn to shit:

Everyone read:

The only person seen doing force-crush was Vader at the end of Ep-III. We can indirectly give it to Mace through the cartoon to Ep-III tie-in with Grievous...but that's up to the thread starter.

Other than that, no one else was seen doing it on screen.

On that same token, same thing is applied to the Wizards. I'm willing to allow low-level spells/charms/potions/items but thay are very limited. Hermione is one of the greatest wizards in all of Harry Potter. She was seen casting a charm. She is the only one except for Flitwick that would be allowed to use that specific charm. (Flitwick is the charms master in the HP-Verse.) It's possible that Dumbles and Voldy can do them just fine...but it wasn't seen on screen. Here's the logic: It's possible that ANY Jedi with low level force TK can do force crush, but no one is seen doing it except for one person. Therefore, by the forum rules, no one can do it except for Vader and POSSIBLY Mace.

This goes for Fiendfyre (retarded to think that just anyone can do it considering only less than 5 (as far as I remember) were seen using. I can only think of 3 people doing it: Dumbledore, Voldemort, and Bellatrix. That's it. Crabbe does it and kills himself by trying it, in Deathly Hallows, but that movie isn't out yet.

Also, if we REALLY want to get pedantic about things, only a specific number of wizards use apparation in the book and the films. The list is very much finite and limited. Not everyone apparates. That Cattermole lady, if memory serves, could not apparate without her Husband. (Deathly Hallows.) Proves that not everyone can apparate. Therefore, we must stick to movie feats only: the list of apparators is limited ONLY to those seen apparating or implied to be able to apparate (such as someone saying they can apparate or someone else saying "I didn't apparate that much when I was your age", etc.) Polyjuice potion is very difficult to make and guess who figured out and successfuly made it? Hermione. Obviously, VERY few people can make that potion.

If something has taught us anything about JK Rowling's HP universe, not all magic is born equally. All spells are not available to everyone, nor are jinxes or potion making abilities. Magic is very much limited to who knows how to do what. Exceptions would be Dumbledore, Voldemort, and Hermione. Hermione seems to be able to do everything. Hermione is a MASTER at charms. In her first year at charms, she got over a 100% in her calss. Dumbledore or Lupin (can't remember) said himself that she is one of the brightest/most powerful wizards seen by the end of the series. She mastered non-verbal spells faster than anyone else. She got almost straight perfect scores on her OWLs. Hermione went toe to toe with Bellatrix (one of only 3 wizards that I can recall using fiendfyre) with Bellatrix's own friggin' wand! She also dueled and bested several deatheaters throughout the series.

To sum up, Hermione is awesome, and spells/potions/gadgets are very much limited. Also, what Voldemort used was never stated to be fiendfyre. We have one reference to it from Deathly Hallows. The fiendfyre cast actually KILLED the caster becuase it is so difficult for a maigcal user to control. If I'm not mistaken Hermione said something about not wanting to use Fiendfyre because it was so hard to control that even SHE would have trouble.

Again, only those wizards seen using a spell/charm/potion are allowed to use those items. Only those wizards that are proven to be able to do those things can do those.

Fiendfyre is OUT. Only can be used by MAYBE Voldy and Dumbledore. Everyone else is out.

Likewise with force crush: only Vader can use it and Mace, if RJ says it's okay.

Charms are out for everyone except Hermione and Flitwick unless that person was seen in the movie successfully using a charm. Again, stick to damn movie feats.

RJ's rational is that if a wizard used a spell, than another wizard could use that spell too. It's why he's having 20+ wizards casting fiendfyre, while flying and charming people into attacking the temple (was this charm-spell even used in the films like this?)

By those same terms, all Jedi can Force-crush, all Sith can Force-lighting, etc.

Though he has tried to make this 'rule' apply only in regards to the wizards, the gimp is strong in this one.

Originally posted by Robtard
RJ's rational is that if a wizard used a spell, than another wizard could use that spell too. It's why he's having 20+ wizards casting fiendfyre, while flying and charming people into attacking the temple (was this charm-spell even used in the films like this?)

By those same terms, all Jedi can Force-crush, all Sith can Force-lighting, etc.

Though he has tried to make this 'rule' apply only in regards to the wizards, the gimp is strong in this one.

I see your point.

In that case...

I'll allow fiendfyre to be cast by any wizard, charms to be used by any wizard, etc... as long as any Jedi can use force Crush, precognition (where they see the future), force lightning, and force speed at all times.

What does this mean? Every single Jedi sees what is going to happen before hand, puts themselves in the perfect position to account for al wizards, and immediately does force crush and force lightening against the wizards, before any wizard has time to react. This includes any secret plans to go back in time. The OP never specifies that the wizards are hiding in space casting charms on people. They all arrive at the jedi temple.

OK boys and girls, here's how it'd go down. The battle begins, the Oppugno'd crowd swarms the Jedi:

Death Eaters and Voldemort are flying through the sky casting Fiendfyre:

Before the Jedi know what's what, they are surrounded by Fiendfyre:

Mace Windu reacts quickly:

The Jedi force push the Fiendfyre:

And this is what happens:

Soon, most if not all of the Jedi are like this:

The stragglers are hit by a confundus spell and are like this:

And Bellatrix and the Death eaters death spell their asses:

Dumbledore watches and is like this:

😄

Originally posted by dadudemon
Cool.

I'm going to have to go out on a limb here and make things turn to shit:

Everyone read:

The only person seen doing force-crush was Vader at the end of Ep-III. We can indirectly give it to Mace through the cartoon to Ep-III tie-in with Grievous...but that's up to the thread starter.

Other than that, no one else was seen doing it on screen.

On that same token, same thing is applied to the Wizards. I'm willing to allow low-level spells/charms/potions/items but thay are very limited. Hermione is one of the greatest wizards in all of Harry Potter. She was seen casting a charm. She is the only one except for Flitwick that would be allowed to use that specific charm. (Flitwick is the charms master in the HP-Verse.) It's possible that Dumbles and Voldy can do them just fine...but it wasn't seen on screen. Here's the logic: It's possible that ANY Jedi with low level force TK can do force crush, but no one is seen doing it except for one person. Therefore, by the forum rules, no one can do it except for Vader and POSSIBLY Mace.

This goes for Fiendfyre (retarded to think that just anyone can do it considering only less than 5 (as far as I remember) were seen using. I can only think of 3 people doing it: Dumbledore, Voldemort, and Bellatrix. That's it. Crabbe does it and kills himself by trying it, in Deathly Hallows, but that movie isn't out yet.

Also, if we REALLY want to get pedantic about things, only a specific number of wizards use apparation in the book and the films. The list is very much finite and limited. Not everyone apparates. That Cattermole lady, if memory serves, could not apparate without her Husband. (Deathly Hallows.) Proves that not everyone can apparate. Therefore, we must stick to movie feats only: the list of apparators is limited ONLY to those seen apparating or implied to be able to apparate (such as someone saying they can apparate or someone else saying "I didn't apparate that much when I was your age", etc.) Polyjuice potion is very difficult to make and guess who figured out and successfuly made it? Hermione. Obviously, VERY few people can make that potion.

If something has taught us anything about JK Rowling's HP universe, not all magic is born equally. All spells are not available to everyone, nor are jinxes or potion making abilities. Magic is very much limited to who knows how to do what. Exceptions would be Dumbledore, Voldemort, and Hermione. Hermione seems to be able to do everything. Hermione is a MASTER at charms. In her first year at charms, she got over a 100% in her calss. Dumbledore or Lupin (can't remember) said himself that she is one of the brightest/most powerful wizards seen by the end of the series. She mastered non-verbal spells faster than anyone else. She got almost straight perfect scores on her OWLs. Hermione went toe to toe with Bellatrix (one of only 3 wizards that I can recall using fiendfyre) with Bellatrix's own friggin' wand! She also dueled and bested several deatheaters throughout the series.

To sum up, Hermione is awesome, and spells/potions/gadgets are very much limited. Also, what Voldemort used was never stated to be fiendfyre. We have one reference to it from Deathly Hallows. The fiendfyre cast actually KILLED the caster becuase it is so difficult for a maigcal user to control. If I'm not mistaken Hermione said something about not wanting to use Fiendfyre because it was so hard to control that even SHE would have trouble.

Again, only those wizards seen using a spell/charm/potion are allowed to use those items. Only those wizards that are proven to be able to do those things can do those.

Fiendfyre is OUT. Only can be used by MAYBE Voldy and Dumbledore. Everyone else is out.

Likewise with force crush: only Vader can use it and Mace, if RJ says it's okay.

Charms are out for everyone except Hermione and Flitwick unless that person was seen in the movie successfully using a charm. Again, stick to damn movie feats.

No, Mace never used force crush in the PT. Anakin is in this battle, NOT Vader. Force crush is out.

Bellatrix, Voldemort, Dumbledore and Fenrir used fiendfyre.

You gotta accept that a high level wizard can use spells that students learn, even if the wizard is never shown using them. Same for the Jedi.

And the death eaters, they all have the same master, why wouldonly a few of them be able to do fiendfyre? What if Mace Windu was never shown doing a simple force pull? We wouldnt be able to say he can use it? If a wizard is level 10, and they are never shown using a level 5 spell, they cant use it? Get a clue, man.

Its stupid.

Originally posted by Robtard
RJ's rational is that if a wizard used a spell, than another wizard could use that spell too. It's why he's having 20+ wizards casting fiendfyre, while flying and charming people into attacking the temple (was this charm-spell even used in the films like this?)

By those same terms, all Jedi can Force-crush, all Sith can Force-lighting, etc.

Though he has tried to make this 'rule' apply only in regards to the wizards, the gimp is strong in this one.

DDM, by your rationale, only Hermione can Oppugno. Fine.

Before the wizards leave for battle, she says "Hey guys, use Oppugno, it's kewliez!!!"

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
No, Mace never used force crush in the PT. Anakin is in this battle, NOT Vader. Force crush is out.

Incorrect. Force crush is in for Anakin, Yoda, Obi Wan, Mace, and every single other Jedi Master-level. I'll tell in a second, why. 😉

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Bellatrix, Voldemort, Dumbledore and Fenrir used fiendfyre.

Bellatrix never did. Voldemort most likely did, but it has NOT confirmed. Dumbledore never did. Fenrir NEVER did.

The only person confirmed to have used fiendfyre is Crabbe in Deathly Hallows...which is not a movie yet.

I'll let you use Voldemort since it looks like fiendfyre. But that's it.

He's the only one using it.

On top of that, it can easily be controlled by a low-level padawan.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
You gotta accept that a high level wizard can use spells that students learn, even if the wizard is never shown using them. Same for the Jedi.

Okay, I'll accept that a high-level wizard can use spells that students learn, even if the wizard is never shown using them. However, fiendfyre is out of the question. So are charms, high-level potions, etc.

If the thread is allowed to accept non-onscreen abilities for wizards, then we will most definitely be accepting force crush for Jedi Master and above.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
And the death eaters, they all have the same master, why wouldonly a few of them be able to do fiendfyre?

Because it is an extremely dangerous and difficult spell to control. A deatheater tried to use it, and killed himself. Hermione, shown to quickly master and perform any task before her, would not use it. (deathly hallows) Hermione defeated several deatheaters throughout the series, so she's obviously a high-level witch.

And, to assume that Voldemort sits around tutoring his deatheaters on how to use magic is just silly and absurd. Besides it being silly, it was never seen on screen and, therefore, cannot be allowed.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
What if Mace Windu was never shown doing a simple force pull?

Sure, that will fly. I don't care if you won't allow abilities to the Jedi, despite them being taught to younglings at the youngest level, it was never shown onscreen. This is your thread. No matter how illogically you want to gimp, I will never argue for what wasn't seen onscreen.

if Mace didn't do it, he doesn't use it.

However, Mace having force-crush as a movie feat is semi-canon. Like I've stated a million times: he force crushed Grievous' ribcage, giving him a cough, with said cough appearing in Ep. III.

That's pretty solid canon, right there. However, it wasn't actually done in the movies, despite a tie-in into the movies, so I say it is always up to the thread starter decide. You've decided already, so it isn't in.

But, even as the thread starter, you still can't give wizards the ability to use fiendfyre when they weren't shown using it. No matter what. That breaks a fundamental forum versus rule.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
We wouldnt be able to say he can use it? If a wizard is level 10, and they are never shown using a level 5 spell, they cant use it? Get a clue, man.

Its stupid.

There's a difference, though.

With a Jedi, using force push, pull, battle precog, prognostication (it's real name is farseeing), lightsabers, danger sensing, force speed, force jump, and mind tricks are all basic and essential to both light and dark side force users. Force lightening, obscuring light side users from prognostication, force choke, force grip, force levitation, saber throw, etc., those are all abilities few show and are not necessarily high-level, but not something we can reasonably say every well-trained force user can do.

However, remembering an obscure charm taught in school when very few wizards can use ANY charms and none were shown using charms successfully in combat, then we can assume two things:

1. It is not a good idea to use charms in combat as it requires concentration, an incantation, and time. It's very obvious why charms were never seen in combat.

2. Very few people are ever seen using charms, period, because they are difficult to use beyond a classroom setting.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
The Jedi force push the Fiendfyre:

And this is what happens:

Soon, most if not all of the Jedi are like this:

The stragglers are hit by a confundus spell and are like this:

And Bellatrix and the Death eaters death spell their asses:

Dumbledore watches and is like this:

😄

Holy shit, I didn't see this before. 😆

I don't care what anyone says, RJ wins the threadz just because of these pictures.

Bellatrix has little bewbiez! crylaugh And she's like, "MAGICAL SPELLS!" crylaugh

Originally posted by dadudemon
Incorrect. Force crush is in for Anakin, Yoda, Obi Wan, Mace, and every single other Jedi Master-level. I'll tell in a second, why. 😉

Bellatrix never did. Voldemort most likely did, but it has NOT confirmed. Dumbledore never did. Fenrir NEVER did.

YouTube video

I'll let you use Voldemort since it looks like fiendfyre. But that's it. Oh you'll LET me, eh? You dont have a choice, he is shown using it, dude.

He's the only one using it.

On top of that, it can easily be controlled by a low-level padawan.

One more thing. A Jedi is facing a wall of flame, just regular fire. It is thirty feet high and 50 feet wide, and it is bearing down on him. He does a force push. Nothing in the movies indicate that the entire wall of flame would stop. Nothing was ever shown that implied that a Jedi can adjust the radius of his force push from, let's say one foot to 20 feet. All this talk about how a Jedi can stop an entire wall of fiendfyre is rubbish without proof that a Jedi can decide how wide his force attack will be.

Now, the scene where Yoda grabs the pillar to save Obi Wan and Anakin in AOTC is not a good example. Yoda could have been focusing his force power on the center of the solid object, therefore holding the entire pillar in the air.

Okay, I'll accept that a high-level wizard can use spells that students learn, even if the wizard is never shown using them. However, fiendfyre is out of the question. So are charms, high-level potions, etc.

If the thread is allowed to accept non-onscreen abilities for wizards, then we will most definitely be accepting force crush for Jedi Master and above.

Because it is an extremely dangerous and difficult spell to control. A deatheater tried to use it, and killed himself. Hermione, shown to quickly master and perform any task before her, would not use it. (deathly hallows) Hermione defeated several deatheaters throughout the series, so she's obviously a high-level witch.

And, to assume that Voldemort sits around tutoring his deatheaters on how to use magic is just silly and absurd. Besides it being silly, it was never seen on screen and, therefore, cannot be allowed.

Sure, that will fly. I don't care if you won't allow abilities to the Jedi, despite them being taught to younglings at the youngest level, it was never shown onscreen. This is your thread. No matter how illogically you want to gimp, I will never argue for what wasn't seen onscreen.

However, Mace having force-crush as a movie feat is semi-canon. Like I've stated a million times: he force crushed Grievous' ribcage, giving him a cough, with said cough appearing in Ep. III.

But, even as the thread starter, you still can't give wizards the ability to use fiendfyre when they weren't shown using it. No matter what. That breaks a fundamental forum versus rule.

There's a difference, though.

With a Jedi, using force push, pull, battle precog, prognostication (it's real name is farseeing), lightsabers, danger sensing, force speed, force jump, and mind tricks are all basic and essential to both light and dark side force users. Force lightening, obscuring light side users from prognostication, force choke, force grip, force levitation, saber throw, etc.

However, remembering an obscure charm taught in school when very few wizards can use ANY charms and none were shown using charms successfully in combat, then we can assume two things:

1. It is not a good idea to use charms in combat as it requires concentration, an incantation, and time. It's very obvious why charms were never seen in combat.

2. Very few people are ever seen using charms, period, because they are difficult to use beyond a classroom setting.

Besides, like I said, she could simply tell them the charm before they leave.

One more time:

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Let's talk about force push for a minute. Let's say this is a solid object that a Jedi is force pushing, 15 feet by 12 feet:

Now, when a Jedi force pushes it, how much of the surface does the force grab? Like this (the blue section):

Or like this? (again, the blue section)

Remember, movie footage is what counts here, NOT speculating and second guessing.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
One more thing. A Jedi is facing a wall of flame, just regular fire. It is thirty feet high and 50 feet wide, and it is bearing down on him. He does a force push. Nothing in the movies indicate that the entire wall of flame would stop. Nothing was ever shown that implied that a Jedi can adjust the radius of his force push from, let's say one foot to 20 feet. All this talk about how a Jedi can stop an entire wall of fiendfyre is rubbish without proof that a Jedi can decide how wide his force attack will be.

Now, the scene where Yoda grabs the pillar to save Obi Wan and Anakin in AOTC is not a good example. Yoda could have been focusing his force power on the center of the solid object, therefore holding the entire pillar in the air.