Originally posted by OneDumbG01) Good to know that you admit that TOAA getting involved
doesn't imbue situations or artifacts with multiversal relevance.
Anything else you're trying to insinuate skirting around that is made moot by this. [/B]
Originally posted by OneDumbG02) I don't know what you meant by this earlier statement then,
other than just such a notion:
Originally posted by Mr MasterIG makes it's wielder God beneath a power comparable or passing the LT.
How did you read the IG is above the LT here? 😐
Originally posted by OneDumbG03) "Laying waste" to the 616 Universe does not necessarily equate to the obliteration of the entire 616 reality.
During the Proctor saga, due to the possible destruction of 616 the (Prime Reality)
the Omniverse almost came to be obliterated:
"Or THIS, the Prime Reality (616) will fall and with it ... ALL EXISTENCE"
Originally posted by OneDumbG0In either case, the conversation between Living Tribunal,
Eternity and Adam Warlock refers to the 616 Universe, singular.That is made obvious by their choice of words,
the tone of the conversation and the circumstances therein.
I mean, look right here in the Abraxas/Reed story.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0.4) Handbooks also do not override on-panel events.
The scope of Infinity Gauntlet was clearly universal.
The scope of the Abraxas storyline was clearly multiversal
Heck,
I remember Captain Universe, who was the one that nicknamed "All of Eternity"
'Multi-Eternity' (character does not exist)
he also called this SAME 'Multi-Eternity ... "The Universe ... and ... just "Eternity"
no 'multi' in the picture: (and this is the right side of the SMAE splash page) 😂
Reed (in the Abraxas arc) also called 'multi' Eternity, ... just .... "Eternity"
Roma (in the Abraxas arc) also called All That IS/Was/Ever Will Be ... just Eternity ...
(no 'multi' .. or 'omni' for that matter)
... oh ... and just "The Universe"
Originally posted by OneDumbG0And the domino effect that follows the obliteration of the 616 Universe doesn't reverse-project any multiversal scope of power onto the IG either. The death of 616 Galactus would do the same thing and we don't imbue him with multiversal powers.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0Projecting multiversal relevance from the latter onto the former through the attenuated use of handbook entries doesn't override the plain presentation of either story. Starlin knows there are an infinite number of other universes. He chose to deal with the 616 one.
Originally posted by OneDumbG05) Dark reflections of realities and characters are plot devices in dozens of stories and their ephemeral nature makes it arguable that it wasn't substantially real enough to stand on its own as a separate whole universe, e.g., 919-Universe.
Again:
Originally posted by Mr MasterThis is completely unsupported, and has no bearing as such.
And in fact, it's actually trying to explain away factual truth with speculation built on straws.Simple and put, as stated in on panel, and as artistically depicted.
Magus created a Duplicate 616 Universe with 5 CCUs.
Then Magus began to merge the 616 Universe, with this Duplicate 616 Universe.
(it would've taken hours he said)Then Magus used the IG to instantly merge the 616 Universe, with the Duplicate.
WTF?
If you're trying to say that the CCUs did not create an entire Universe,
that the incomplete IG merged with 616 in an instant,
then this piece of post is an utter fallacy.
Originally posted by Mr Master
I gave my reason why it's significant.
And there's been plenty of other observations
you're trying to insinuate skirting around that is made moot by the rest of my posts.IG makes it's wielder God ... [b]beneath
a power comparable or passing the LT.How did you read the IG is above the LT here? 😐
According to Marvel comics it does,
I presented one clear example, but here's another.During the Proctor saga, due to the possible destruction of 616 the (Prime Reality)
the Omniverse almost came to be obliterated:"Or THIS, the Prime Reality (616) will fall and with it ... ALL EXISTENCE" [/B]
Originally posted by OneDumbG07) And yes, Quasar did limit the power of the UN.
For you to deny that,
then turn around and say
that he only tried to eliminate Magus with a focused sphere is oxymoronic. [/B]
The FACTS can't be adjusted and/or denied by colorful writing. 🙂
*** Quasar NEVER at any time adjusted the power of the UN.
+++ Quasar did control the area being nullified
by holding back the expansion of the field being nullified by the UN.
Proof it was just the area being nullified that Quasar adjusted.
(obviously, as to not nullify anything else)
... "The Sphere of Ultimate Nullification will grow"
... "The Sphere of Ultimate Nullification will grow,
and mushroom out of control."
"Sphere of Whiteness" (nullification)
"The Sphere's growing quickly"
"Toward the Target .. after it reaches it, will it to contract"
Originally posted by OneDumbG0And no, it's very arguable that the nullifcation energy present in Infinity War #6 is not the same as the nullification energy that destroyed and recreated the entire Marvel Multiverse. The former only nullified. The latter nullified and recreated. Even if you choose to ignore this, controlling a small sphere of nullification energy does not make the IG's power multiversal. You can skirt around this simple fact all you want.[/B]
Simple, and one last time:
The SAME nullification energies that are used by the UN
to erase Time-Space around a person,
are the same energies used around a Universe or more.
And there's no arguing this fact.
Originally posted by OneDumbG08) As for your last post, you hold those single panels out to confirm that each individual Gem has universal feats. So what? Universal =/= Multiversal. And as I recall, Thanos and In-Betweener assisted Warlock with the latter feat.
if a single Gem can freeze the Marvel Universe's Timestream ..
or if a single Gem can re-arrange the future of 616
by erasing an entire Universe/TImeline from existence ...
then darn it, without a doubt the IG is FAR MORE than Universal dogs.
Originally posted by ZeuodinJust one thing to note. If you have a house of cards, and you pull the main card down, all of it will fall. That doesn't mean you destroyed the entire house of cards at the same time. The 616 is the spine of the MU. Once The LT was going to make the other marvel universe the spine.
So the 616 itself is only important because of it's position.
Not it's inherent power.
616:
"Wolds within Worlds, Dimensions folding into themselves,
Entire UniverseS being born, and collapsing into ruin,
and yet I sense that ALL this -- is but a fraction of what Eternity is,
the core, the Heart of Eternity's being ... here All Energy, All Matter, lies,
I will detonate Eternity's Heart --- triggering another Creation event,
Re-Birthing every being and thing in All the UniverseS"
.......................................................................
616 Eternity: (same as above)
Eternity is Time incarnated ...
When he raises a Hand which holds whole universeS withIN it,
Past Present and Future"
Originally posted by Mr Master
😐[b]616
:"Wolds within Worlds, Dimensions folding into themselves,
Entire UniverseS being born, and collapsing into ruin,
and yet I sense that ALL this -- is but a fraction of what Eternity is,the core, the Heart of Eternity's being ... here All Energy, All Matter, lies,
I will detonate Eternity's Heart --- triggering another Creation event,
Re-Birthing every being and thing in All the UniverseS".......................................................................
616 Eternity: (same as above)
Eternity is Time incarnated ...
When he raises a Hand which holds whole universeS withIN it,
Past Present and Future" [/B]
Originally posted by Mr MasterIt's not significant at all. Especially not through some facile manuever to suggest that TOAA's involvement in a situation imbues that situation with multiversal relevance.
I gave my reason why it's significant.
And there's been plenty of other observations
you're trying to insinuate skirting around that is made moot by the rest of my posts.
Originally posted by Mr MasterYour statement itself is an oxymoron. Look at it again. Because beneath a power comparable or passing the LT suggests that you're qualifying the subject of your proposition as being less than a power which is ciomparable or greater than the LT.
IG makes it's wielder God ... [b]beneath a power comparable or passing the LT.How did you read the IG is above the LT here?[/b]
Originally posted by Mr MasterTaking a single statement in isolation and ignoring the context of my position is not appropriate debating tactics. "Laying waste" could mean that the 616 Universe would have been wrecked, but still exist. Like when Thanos snapped his fingers and killed off half of 616's population. The rest of your arguments are completely inaposite since you don't even address the original point.
According to Marvel comics it does,
I presented one clear example, but here's another...
Originally posted by Mr MasterExcept Abraxas specifically mentioned the multiverse and showed alternate universes and dealt with a threat on the multiversal scale.
And so was the Abraxas story, and the Genis story, and the HOTI story, and the Alien Entity, they all mentioned the word Universe, and/or Eternity, and all that is/all reality/all existence.I mean, look right here in the Abraxas/Reed story.
Originally posted by Mr MasterCharacters conflating terms in a story where (i) the specific idea of Multi-Eternity was depicted, and (ii) the threat to the multiverse clearly defined... does not justify you conflating the terms through attenuated semantics over nomenclature and reverse-projecting multiversal relevance onto a storyline that dealt with one universe, singular.
I never said Handbooks > on panel, nice try,
I was pointing out that the SAME Eternity was remade by the UN in the Reed case,
is the same Eternity that got stomped by Thanos/IG in that case.Heck,
I remember Captain Universe, who was the one that nicknamed "All of Eternity"
'Multi-Eternity' (character does not exist)
he also called this SAME 'Multi-Eternity ... "The Universe ... and ... just "Eternity"
no 'multi' in the picture: (and this is the right side of the SMAE splash page)
Originally posted by Mr MasterMore oxymorons. Limiting the effect of the UN is limiting the power. Semantics over wording is a typical maneuver on your part that is becoming repetitious and tired.
Calling the facts "oxymoronic" is just your defense mechanism at work.The FACTS can't be adjusted and/or denied by colorful writing.
*** Quasar NEVER at any time adjusted the power of the UN.
+++ Quasar did control the area being nullified
by holding back the expansion of the field being nullified by the UN.
Originally posted by Mr MasterYes, you can argue this fact, because the energy in Infinity War #6 nullifies. The energy from the Abraxas storyline nullifies and recreates. Different results presume different causes, or in this case different energies. Even if it doesn't, controlling a single sphere of nullification energy does not make the IG multiversal no matter how you try to spin it.
The SAME nullification energies that are used by the UN
to erase Time-Space around a person,
are the same energies used around a Universe or more.And there's no arguing this fact.
Originally posted by Mr MasterNot really. So did Thanos and In-Betweener help Warlock or not?
if a single Gem can freeze the Marvel Universe's Timestream ..or if a single Gem can re-arrange the future of 616
by erasing an entire Universe/TImeline from existence ...then darn it, without a doubt the IG is FAR MORE than Universal dogs.
Originally posted by ZeuodinThis still doesn't explain why The LT could simply replace the 616 with another spine of the MU.
Originally posted by ZeuodinAlso, there were said to be partial numbered universes with in Eternity.
In fact, the writer even points out "Dimensions"
aside from "Whole Universes"
So please, let's not start reaching now ey.
Originally posted by ZeuodinEvery universe has universes with in it.
In Marvel's cosmology every Universe has pocket universes/realms/dimensions ect.
but NONE of them have ENTIRE or WHOLE UniverseS withIN them.
Originally posted by ZeuodinI don't think that makes it a multiverse.
But an area that contains ENTIRE/WHOLE UNiverseS withIN is a Multiverse.
Heck, the writer clearly said "All UniverseS!"
Originally posted by OneDumbG0It's not significant at all. Especially not through some facile manuever to suggest that TOAA's involvement in a situation imbues that situation with multiversal relevance. Your statement itself is an oxymoron. Look at it again. Because beneath a power comparable or passing the LT suggests that you're qualifying the subject of your proposition as being less than a power which is ciomparable or greater than the LT. Taking a single statement in isolation and ignoring the context of my position is not appropriate debating tactics. "Laying waste" could mean that the 616 Universe would have been wrecked, but still exist. Like when Thanos snapped his fingers and killed off half of 616's population. The rest of your arguments are completely inaposite since you don't even address the original point. Except Abraxas specifically mentioned the multiverse and showed alternate universes and dealt with a threat on the multiversal scale. Characters conflating terms in a story where the specific idea of Multi-Eternity was depicted and the threat to the multiverse clearly defined does not justify you conflating the terms through attenuated semantics over nomenclature and reverse-projecting multiversal relevance onto a storyline that dealt with one universe, singular.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0More oxymorons. Limiting the effect of the UN is limiting the power. Semantics over wording is a typical maneuver on your part that is becoming repetitious and tired. Yes, you can argue this fact, because the energy in Infinity War #6 nullifies. The energy from the Abraxas storyline nullifies and recreates. Different results presume different causes, or in this case different energies. Even if it doesn't, controlling a single sphere of nullification energy does not make the IG multiversal no matter how you try to spin it.Not really. So did Thanos and In-Betweener help Warlock or not?
All you're doing now is arguing with theory/speculation
and artful writing to make an unsupported point.
"Semantics over wording is a typical maneuver on your part
that is becoming repetitious and tired."
Back at ya fella. 🙂
Originally posted by Mr Master
No offense, but since you're not countering any of my on panel Handbook supported proof,
I'm gonna have to ignore this debate for a while,
cause my presented facts are either being overlooked due to an unshakable faith,
or, intransigence has taken over the discussion, and that always frustrates me,
and leads me to react, so, I'll just slip on by freind
until something of significance opposes my evidence.All you're doing now is arguing with theory/speculation
and artful writing to make an unsupported point."Semantics over wording is a typical maneuver on your part
that is becoming repetitious and tired."Back at ya fella. 🙂
Originally posted by ZeuodinTyrant survived? Scans? Did you read the issue you are referring to?
I don't see any proof that the IG was multiversal based simply on Quasar's bumbling. It's already evident that different users get different results with the UN. Heck Morg didn't even Kill tyrant with it. So that entire theory is out of the window as far as I'm concerned. You'd be better of showing us feats outside of the UN one that make the IG multiversal. So far everything I've seen says universe this, universe that. explainations of what eternity is or is to you doesn't take away from the fact that universe is used so many times.
Originally posted by Mr MasterI don't have to counter the strained use of your so-called "evidence" that consists purely of (i) throw-away lines in handbooks and (ii) facile manuevers that conflate the concepts of universe and multiverse, Eternity and Multi-Eternity. Especially not when the overwhelming weight of evidence shows that Infinity Gauntlet dealt with one universe, singular. We never saw alternate universes or alternate versions of abstracts/characters. We saw 616 versions. Furthermore, the term universe was used several dozen times. You haven't outbalanced that weight of evidence. You can't. That's why you resort to projecting multiversal relevance from other storylines using wordplay.
No offense, but since you're not countering any of my on panel Handbook supported proof,
I'm gonna have to ignore this debate for a while,
cause my presented facts are either being overlooked due to an unshakable faith,
or, intransigence has taken over the discussion, and that always frustrates me,
and leads me to react, so, I'll just slip on by freind
until something of significance opposes my evidence.All you're doing now is arguing with theory/speculation
and artful writing to make an unsupported point."Semantics over wording is a typical maneuver on your part
that is becoming repetitious and tired."Back at ya fella.
Using wordplay to reverse-project multiversal relevance onto the entire thematic scope of Infinity Gauntlet is ludicrous. In a What If?, we see Impossible Man confront Eternity. Using your faulty reasoning, that becomes Multi-Eternity and now the scope of the story is multiversal, even though it clearly dealt with an alternate universe, singular. The concept and definition of Multi-Eternity would be utterly destroyed through such semantics.
Controlling a small sphere of nullifiction energy doesn't make the IG multiversal either.
Stepping away from the clearly oxymoronic content of your statements and questions regarding whether Thanos and In-Betweener helped Warlock does not constitute a rebuttal.
Originally posted by xJLxKingYou insinuating that Reed's facial complexion is not teh multiversal? TOAA got involved!!!!11 durhulk
So if "God" intervenes, the thread has to be multiversal??
Originally posted by xJLxKing
So if "God" intervenes, the thread has to be multiversal??
NO, all the other evidence that has been laid out makes it clear in my opinion that it is multiversal. Merging the two universes alone makes that clear by itself. There is NOT ONE single piece of evidence that contradicts that being a completely seperate universe. The two UNIVERSE is used.. not a pocket dimension or anything of the sort. It was called a seperate Universe. Manipulating to universes and making them one is a multiversal feat plain and simple. All the other evidence supports that exact thing IMO.
Originally posted by Zeuodin
I don't see any proof that the IG was multiversal based simply on Quasar's bumbling. It's already evident that different users get different results with the UN. Heck Morg didn't even Kill tyrant with it. So that entire theory is out of the window as far as I'm concerned. You'd be better of showing us feats outside of the UN one that make the IG multiversal. So far everything I've seen says universe this, universe that. explainations of what eternity is or is to you doesn't take away from the fact that universe is used so many times.
Are you dense.. This hasn't been the only evidence presented nor the back bone of the argument I've been making. You like JL only used one piece of evidence that was presented.
