Infinity Gauntlet Vs. Cosmic Armor

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

Thanos travelled across planes of existence,
inconceivable realities and dimensions to the Nexus of Reality.

But not across alternate universes.

Thanos traveled across UniverseS!

In Marvel, Dimensions are whole Universes withIN the Multiverse, this is a fact.

In Marvel, pocket dimensions/universes/realms
are self contained realities withIN Universes, this is a fact.

let me know if you need the scans,
although from the experience in this thread,
I don't know if it'll make a difference.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

Truth. "Make things up?" Like what? That within the context of the entire Marvel Multiverse,
the UN was considered the "weapon of unimaginable power" by the omniversal guardian, Roma? On-panel.

Scan above has absolutely nothing to do with the UN,
Roma is referring to Galactus' death, which freed Abraxas,
which in turn lead to a gradual Multiversal collapse courtesy of Abraxas.

----------------------------------------------------

"within the context of the Marvel Multiverse" you say Roma addresses,
this wouldn't happen to be the SAME Marvel Multiverse
Roma also called "THE UNIVERSE," ... and "Eternity" (NOT the so called 'Multi-Et'😉

😐 ... Actually it is the SAME Multiverse Roma is calling "THE Universe"
... and "Eternity"
... (NOT 'Multi' ... or 'Omni' or any other name)

----------------------------------------------------

Then again, we shouldn't be surprised,
since 616 Eternity does contain the source/power of ALL UniverseS:

"Wolds within Worlds, Dimensions folding into themselves,
Entire UniverseS being born, and collapsing into ruin,
and yet I sense that ALL this -- is but a fraction of what Eternity is,

the core, the Heart of Eternity's being ... here All Energy, All Matter, lies,
I will detonate Eternity's Heart --- triggering another Creation event,
Re-Birthing every being and thing in All the UniverseS"

🙂

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

That Abraxas' plan was revealed and the UN was actually confirmed as being powerful enough to destroy the
"combined realities of the multiverse" three issues before it actually did? On-panel.

An Incomplete IG treated the UN like a child's toy,
even literally stated by Jim Starlin that the term "Ultimate" in UN holds little weight against an Incomplete IG:

✅

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

That before Galactus was resurrected,
Abraxas also confirmed that his current possession of the UN meant
"not a soul in the combined universes" could stop him? [b]On-panel.

[/B]

👆

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

That although Abraxas never intended to fire the UN for the same reason Reed did, Reed did fire it.
And he destroyed/recreated that very same Multi-Eternity that was revealed in THAT storyline? On-panel.

[/B]

And just plain ol' Eternity, by Reed no less while coincidentally standing in 616?

hum

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

Could you be more possibly ignorant that "multiverse" wasn't stated at all? Do you really need some writer to be interviewed off-panel to recognize the obvious multiversal scope and ramifications of what occurred? And you actually profess to have read this storyline? But seriously. What should I expect? When you think universe = multiverse, without multiverse even ever being stated or shown in one storyline, why should I be surprised when you think multiverse = only one universe in another storyline?

***

616 Eternity 2006 Bio: (concerning the IG)

616 Eternity 2006 Bio: (concerning Reed using the UN)

616 Eternity 2006 Bio: (concerning Dormy in 616 and merging with Eternity power) *

* 616 Eternity's Power:

"Wolds within Worlds, Dimensions folding into themselves,
Entire UniverseS being born, and collapsing into ruin,
and yet I sense that ALL this -- is but a fraction of what Eternity is,

the core, the Heart of Eternity's being ... here All Energy, All Matter, lies,
I will detonate Eternity's Heart --- triggering another Creation event,
Re-Birthing every being and thing in All the UniverseS"

..................................................................................

*** Respect 616 Eternity! ***

Eternity is Time incarnated ...

When he raises a Hand which holds whole universeS withIN it,

Past Present and Future"

..................................................................................

Strange on 616 Eternity:

Strange:

"You don't understand?

Eternity IS A GOD! He is ...
the complete embodiment of everyone and everything ...
... on All levels of Creation"

===========================

616 Eternity is badass!

===========================

Since we wanna use the LT's words, ... "dwarf even your might" googoogaga ...

Stated by the Living Tribunal to be "Lord over All That IS"

(or are we to now imagine that "ALL THAT IS" ... is one reality to the LT? 😆

And only the IG being it's true threat.

.....................................................

Thanos/IG not only stomped in one move
Eternity (who holds whole UniverseS in one hand - past present & future)
Eternity (who kills & gives birth to UniverseS all day, who can re-make all UniverseS)
Eternity (lord of all that is)

Thanos also effortlessly replaced "the Lord of all that is" ...

^ More of the same. Reverse-projecting the multiversal scope of the Abraxas storyline doesn't make the original Infinity Gauntlet affair multiversal. At all. It's completely unjustified and wholly ridiculous when you consider the consequences. What? Thanos' original use of the Cosmic Cube to become the universe was, in fact, *gasp* multiversal?! Galactus performing surgery on 616 Eternity during Infinity War was actually, *gasp* multiversal surgery?! No. Not at all. That's an utterly self-serving bastardization and wholly based on your desire to make the IG more than it was. As for addressing the rest of your ninja spam:

Originally posted by Mr Master
This is 100% false. Thanos traveled across UniverseS! In Marvel, Dimensions are whole Universes withIN the Multiverse, this is a fact. In Marvel, [b]pocket dimensions/universes/realms are self contained realities withIN Universes, this is a fact.

Let's take a closer look at your "on panel" evidence:

Scan above has absolutely nothing to do with the UN, Roma is referring to Galactus' death, which freed Abraxas, which in turn lead to a gradual Multiversal collapse courtesy of Abraxas.[/b]

No kidding, Sherlock. I posted that to provide the multiversal context of the story as I literally stated, "within the context of the entire Marvel Multiverse." I never confused that particular statement by Roma to be descriptive of the UN. Ever. Only the second statement from the second scan:

While it may seem pointless to post both, (as you can clearly see alternate Earths being reflected in the vision, thus alluding to multiversality), I was directing these scans to a poster who literally needs "multiverse" spelled out. I wasn't sure whether he'd have the ability to comprehend that an actual picture of alternate Earths commonly represents multiversality.

Originally posted by Mr Master
True that, the UN can and has remade the Multiverse, ... so what though?

An Incomplete IG treated the UN like a child's toy, even literally stated by Jim Starlin that the term "Ultimate" in UN holds little weight against an Incomplete IG:

Originally posted by Mr Master
Right, because in this arc it was his ONLY weakness, but let's not get it twisted, it was never because Abraxas now had a weapon he himself could use, in fact, Abraxas NEVER intended on using the UN at any time whatsoever.

Originally posted by Mr Master
hmm ... this wouldn't happen to be the SAME 'Multi-Eternity' that in the very SAME arc, and the very SAME splash page in fact where the so-called "Multi" Eternity is introduced, this SAME "Multi" Eternity is called THE Universe by the guy who nick named All of Eternity "Multi" ...

And just plain ol' Eternity, by Reed no less while coincidentally standing in 616?

And ninja-spamming a dozen posts doesn't suggest that you have a lot to say. In fact, most of it is repetitive. And a great majority of it is simple cut/paste with a few slight edits which don't change the fact that most of your reasoning has already been dealt with severely. And while I chose to address most of it, don't interpret that as suffusing your statements with substance. Correcting your straw-manning of me and addressing the one or two new points was my only motivation.

The bottom-line of your argument is that universe = multiverse when it suits you through bastardized wordplay, not when the actual story itself suggests or displays it. And your measurement of the superiority of artifacts relative to each other relies on the "handgun > rocket launcher" and/or "Black Alice > Spectre" comedy.

guys, in future, edit your posts rather than triple or quadruple posting.

aside from the "ninja-spamming" (made me chuckle most enthusiastically, btw) this 'debate' still boils to point(s) that myself, and others (props to ODG) have redundantly mentioned..

ie: utilizing statements/scans from completely unrelated comics, pertaining to 616 eternity being multiversal in nature, then attempting to apply those instances to the "infinity gauntlet" affair is... fallacious, to say the least. especially when we have comments from within the pages of the actual series, which paint a much different (universal) picture.

-eternity-
"to reclaim that which is mine and myself -- control over this reality":
http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/61/eternity1.jpg
(singular)
---
-uatu-
"thanos has now thoroughly usurped eternity's rightful position as the center of all reality in this sphere"

"...a valiant effort to save this plane of existence has failed":
http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/4439/eternity2.jpg
(singular)

plethoric posting doesn't change the fact that if only one reality/universe is mentioned multiple times, there is absolutely no reason to assume an infinite amount of realities/universes (a multiverse) is what the staff of marvel really intended to be involved. particularly when such was never alluded to within the saga itself.

...or perhaps eternity and uatu are just idiots who have absolutely no idea what they're talking about..? *shrug*

Originally posted by Galan007
aside from the "ninja-spamming" (made me chuckle most enthusiastically, btw)

Originally posted by -Pr-
guys, in future, edit your posts rather than triple or quadruple posting.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
What are you talking about? I just gave an instance where it shows the UN manipulating reality! There is no question whether it could or it couldn't. It did. Invisible Woman miscarried in a storyline in 1984. Now she's pregnant with Valeria in a storyline in 2002. Every single person in this thread has pointed out how your constant harping about Odin causing shockwaves through the multiverse is complete and utter ludicrousness. Odin NEVER destroyed/recreated the Marvel Multiverse NOR did he ever even come close to threatening it. So stop trying to act like you're being clever in pointing out ANYTHING that might undermine my position. Posting for the sake of posting is trolling and THAT'S what your logic (or lack thereof) boils down to.

Utter gibberish. I can't even follow what you just said other than you agreeing that LT had nothing to worry about. Truth. "Make things up?" Like what? That within the context of the entire Marvel Multiverse, the UN was considered the "weapon of unimaginable power" by the omniversal guardian, Roma? [b]On-panel.

That Abraxas' plan was revealed and the UN was actually confirmed as being powerful enough to destroy the "combined realities of the multiverse" three issues before it actually did? On-panel.

That before Galactus was resurrected, Abraxas also confirmed that his current possession of the UN meant "not a soul in the combined universes" could stop him? On-panel.

That although Abraxas never intended to fire the UN for the same reason Reed did, Reed did fire it. And he destroyed/recreated that very same Multi-Eternity that was revealed in THAT storyline? On-panel.

Could you be more possibly ignorant that "multiverse" wasn't stated at all? Do you really need some writer to be interviewed off-panel to recognize the obvious multiversal scope and ramifications of what occurred? And you actually profess to have read this storyline? But seriously. What should I expect? When you think universe = multiverse, without multiverse even ever being stated or shown in one storyline, why should I be surprised when you think multiverse = only one universe in another storyline? Should I be surprised? Especially when it suits your own self-serving arguments? Especially when I force you to contradict your own beliefs withina debate so you can act like you have wiggle room to actually rebut my arguments? And sadly for you... these scans aren't even the half of it! What. Are. You. Thinking? The LT never hesitated. As soon as Eternity asked for LT's judgment, LT stood up from his seat and proclaimed, "So shall you have it!" At that point, Warlock starts pontificating about how he's master of all aspects of the Infinity Gems. And you know what LT does? He IMMEDIATELY responds, "Yes. And know that I rule AGAINST you." At that point, LT starts lecturing him on what kind of childish god Warlock sees himself to be that he would destroy his own universe to keep a power he was never meant to have. What hesitation? LT verbally OWNED him. And Warlock confirmed that this was unassailable since he could tell his own future.

It's not entirely different from the stupid Superman analogy at all based on your logic. Because you act like the IG hasn't shown limitations to its "Powah" as had Superman. Well it has. Several times. It's extremely hard to ignore, especially when the full IG couldn't (i) obliterate Maelstrom, (ii) had it's destructive effects completely reversed by the LT with a snap of the fingers, (iii) got one-shotted by Surfer, (iv) couldn't even penetrate Grandmaster's mind. Gimme a break! Hmmmmmmmm.

Don't project your own desperation onto me. It's inimitably clear that you haven't a leg to stand on and the only way you can hope to save face is by acting like you've got the advantage and extending a desperate false bravado. Just learn that you're not fooling anybody. It's kinda pathetic. [/B]

I was being sarcastic. Sarcasm seems to allude you as well as common sense. Lt has stated in the past and ersihkigal comes to mind that he could easily defeat her, but that it would cause an imbalance throughout the multiverse due to their location so he chose an avatar to represent him.

In this situation no avatar was needed, but he still never said that he could simply destroy him. He paused and then stated it would cause the destruction of this reality meaning he can't simply undo Warlock's best. You always seem to confuse Warlock's anger outburst as the best of what the ig can bring to the table.

Ok, I wasn't rereading this arc. I guess with the evidence it does seem to point towards a multiverse. This is the proof I have been asking for so I don't know why it took you this long to post it.

It still doesn't prove it's more powerful than the ig though. A godblast doesn't cause massive destruction but we know it's more powerful than attacks such as Gladiator's and Champion's that destroy planets. That's just one example of something very powerful not causing massive destruction being alot more powerful than attacks causing massive destruction.

We have seen the ig portrayed as supreme on panel within that universe. This has included Galactus, the un, Eternity, Death, and so on. It's not cut it's not dry. The ig was the baddest thing in the universe which included the un. A writer even spells it out. Your touting of one feat in a story outside the ig in no way, shape, or form proves it's more powerful than the ig. We have had direct comparisons in the past with words like supreme, master of that reality, etc. so please relax when reading the abraxas arc. It causes you to break into hysterics and ignore on panel comparisons and writer statements.

Lt>ig>un.

Originally posted by Galan007
aside from the "ninja-spamming" (made me chuckle most enthusiastically, btw) this 'debate' still boils to point(s) that myself, and others (props to ODG) have redundantly mentioned..

ie: utilizing statements/scans from completely unrelated comics, pertaining to 616 eternity being multiversal in nature, then attempting to apply those instances to the "infinity gauntlet" affair is... fallacious, to say the least. especially when we have comments from within the pages of the actual series, which paint a much different (universal) picture.

-eternity-
"to reclaim that which is mine and myself -- control over this reality":
http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/61/eternity1.jpg
(singular)
---
-uatu-
"thanos has now thoroughly usurped eternity's rightful position as the center of all reality in this sphere"

"...a valiant effort to save this plane of existence has failed":
http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/4439/eternity2.jpg
(singular)

plethoric posting doesn't change the fact that if only one reality/universe is mentioned multiple times, there is absolutely no reason to assume an infinite amount of realities/universes (a multiverse) is what the staff of marvel really intended to be involved. particularly when such was never alluded to within the saga itself.

...or perhaps eternity and uatu are just idiots who have absolutely no idea what they're talking about..? *shrug*

Originally posted by quanchi112
If you are suggesting it has limits then you are ignoring on panel statements.

😐

Like you ignore the FC Statements about the Cosmic Armor and Mandrakk?

😆

Your double standard is hilarious.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
😐

Like you ignore the FC Statements about the Cosmic Armor and Mandrakk?

😆

Your double standard is hilarious.

The ig has actually been compared both on panel and by a writer who dealt with both. Ig is more powerful imo and far more effective.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Ig is more powerful imo and far more effective.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
And this is the crux of the issue: you never actually make an objective assessment about anything. You pick a side based on which you like more and then use reverse scientific method to prove why its better by throwing out everything that doesn't agree with you and after your sophist arguments are exposed you fall back to admitting that its your opinion as if that were also some incontrovertible fact.

Originally posted by quanchi112
A writer's statement and on panel interaction has backed up my case. A feat done years later by loeb of all people doesn't change a thing. I have explained my reasoning and if you don't like it, tough.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
But your reasoning is terrible.
Also WTF are you even talking about the same thread? Who mentioned Loeb here?

Loeb wrote the arc involving the un, sport.

Originally posted by quanchi112
What about my reasoning is terrible?

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Let's see first off: it's circular, its all based on straw-manning everyone, and it relies on pretty much selective answering of posts to attempt to pick apart anything with ambiguous wording. You've pretty much decided to dismiss CA hyperbole but embrace IG hyperbole because that suits you better. You wonder why no one ever likes digging up scans to prove things to you because you never listen.

I agree that it probably rewrote the multiverse. It still doesn't warrant me overriding my decision based on these two coming to a head in the mid nineties.