^ Time for work. I'll be posting those references to "universe" (singular) later on sometime. Although lulz because you just happened to post one from Infinity War. Yeah, newsflash: Infinity War didn't deal with the Marvel Multiverse either. Magus wanted 616 universe. 616 Eternity/Infinity showed up. Universal.
ODG...
1. You keep saying that the term universes was referring to pocket dimensions. However, that is pure and utter speculation on your part. Not one place was that ever stated nor implied. That is how YOU want to take it so it fits into your whole it's only universal theory. However, it was made quite clear and the term UNIVERSE was used to describe the feat. In fact Magus was located in a completely different universe and merged two other universes together. Not one time was pocket dimension mentioned ever.
2. In regards to your reply to me and using the analogy of blowing up a planet in regards to blowing up a universe and thus the latter being superior. Again, that is one aspect of superiority... However, I could list many more things that make the IG superior to the UN. Not only is the one feat makes you superior a fallacy it's not even close to logical. So, I will ask you this one question that you have avoided a few times now.... You must then believe Reed to be greater than Doom. Afterall, Reed accomplished an exponentially greater mind feat than Doom ever has. So then, if you apply your same logic you must agree with that statement correct? I on the other hand don't agree with that fallacy. Could that mean someone is greater sure, not it neccesitate such a thing, no. I've given many examples of someone having better feats.. yet losing in a one v one encounter to said person. One feat or even multiple feats doesn't mean someone or something is superior. It can but that is not even close to a given.
3. I don't think anybody is denying that the Abraxas arc was dealing with things on a multiversal scale. At least im not. That was made clear in many ways. However, even in tha arc the word Universe (singular) was used many times. Just Eternity was also used many times. However, we know it was dealing with multiversal concepts. Point being, just because something is describe as singular, doesn't mean that is the totality of the meaning. You will say well there was other evidence that made it clear we are dealing with multiversal concepts. I agree. However, in the IG's case that is also true... Such things like I am God of this Universe and all Universes. The fact that the bio of Eternity is both arcs makes it clear it was the same Eternity. If you want it to be multieternity is one then it has to be in the other. It was said to be the same Eternity. Lets not forget as I've pointed out... that this was a battle for the 616 Universe. The universe that is the backbone and foundation of Marvel. If that goes.. that creates ripples across the multiverse. It seems very logical Multi-Eternity was in fact there to stop this from occurring. Also the fact that Magus again was merging TWO SEPERATE UNIVERSES together from a totally different place all together. That alone is at the very least a Multi-universal. Again showing its scope isn't just universal. To go even further.. when you have the IG you are in control of a wide variety of powers. You can travel from universe to universe if you so choose.. Thus taking over whatever you would choose and like. Thus, the multiverse would be in jeopardy and you would have a multiversal weapon on your hands.
southeast asian = seperate countries (not part o China)
pocket universe is inside a universe & its nothin next to universe
even gem contains a pocket universe
if southeast country is 10X smaller then China then a pocket universe is wut, 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000X smaller then universe? lol its like less then grain o sand in Saarah desert ^^
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi1. Not once is an "alternate universe" ever implied or suggested in Thanos Quest. Ever. It's one or the other. The former makes more sense as will become immediately clear when I post a few scans. I couldn't care less where Magus was. We're talking about the whole "this and all universes" schtick in Thanos Quest.
ODG...1. You keep saying that the term universes was referring to pocket dimensions. However, that is pure and utter speculation on your part. Not one place was that ever stated nor implied. That is how YOU want to take it so it fits into your whole it's only universal theory. However, it was made quite clear and the term UNIVERSE was used to describe the feat. In fact Magus was located in a completely different universe and merged two other universes together. Not one time was pocket dimension mentioned ever.
2. In regards to your reply to me and using the analogy of blowing up a planet in regards to blowing up a universe and thus the latter being superior. Again, that is one aspect of superiority... However, I could list many more things that make the IG superior to the UN. Not only is the one feat makes you superior a fallacy it's not even close to logical. So, I will ask you this one question that you have avoided a few times now.... You must then believe Reed to be greater than Doom. Afterall, Reed accomplished an exponentially greater mind feat than Doom ever has. So then, if you apply your same logic you must agree with that statement correct? I on the other hand don't agree with that fallacy. Could that mean someone is greater sure, not it neccesitate such a thing, no. I've given many examples of someone having better feats.. yet losing in a one v one encounter to said person. One feat or even multiple feats doesn't mean someone or something is superior. It can but that is not even close to a given.
3. I don't think anybody is denying that the Abraxas arc was dealing with things on a multiversal scale. At least im not. That was made clear in many ways. However, even in tha arc the word Universe (singular) was used many times. Just Eternity was also used many times. However, we know it was dealing with multiversal concepts. Point being, just because something is describe as singular, doesn't mean that is the totality of the meaning. You will say well there was other evidence that made it clear we are dealing with multiversal concepts. I agree. However, in the IG's case that is also true... Such things like I am God of this Universe and all Universes. The fact that the bio of Eternity is both arcs makes it clear it was the same Eternity. If you want it to be multieternity is one then it has to be in the other. It was said to be the same Eternity. Lets not forget as I've pointed out... that this was a battle for the 616 Universe. The universe that is the backbone and foundation of Marvel. If that goes.. that creates ripples across the multiverse. It seems very logical Multi-Eternity was in fact there to stop this from occurring. Also the fact that Magus again was merging TWO SEPERATE UNIVERSES together from a totally different place all together. That alone is at the very least a Multi-universal. Again showing its scope isn't just universal. To go even further.. when you have the IG you are in control of a wide variety of powers. You can travel from universe to universe if you so choose.. Thus taking over whatever you would choose and like. Thus, the multiverse would be in jeopardy and you would have a multiversal weapon on your hands.
2. You pick up 1,000,000 tons and I pick up 100 tons, to say you've proven to be more powerful than me is not a fallacy. That's just god damn common sense.
3. No. It was never Multi-Eternity in any of the Infinity Gauntlet sagas ever. That blatantly ignores the consistently universal thematic scope of those stories. And when you try to apply it, everything becomes absurd: 616 Galactus performed a multiversal surgery? Thanos and his doppelganger were just lying to each other when they suggested that they could just go to an alternate universe and become god of that alternate universe with an alternate IG? 616 universe being the backbone of the multiverse doesn't mean squat concerning its scope of power and you know it. 616 Galactus is a backbone in his own way and his containment of Abraxas is multiversal in scope, but we don't we don't consider 616 Galactus' personal power to be multiversal+ capable of multiversal feats. As much as I like Galactus, he still feeds on planets and gets hurt by Thor's godblast. Magus' feat isn't any more impressive than an alternate Reed drawing on his original universe's energy from across universes. The IG didn't even create the duplicate shadow reality. It didn't even start the merger of the duplicate shadow reality. It just accelerated it. Throwing around the word multi-universal while in a narrow way might be appropriate does not even come close to suggest multiversality. A galaxy is a "multi-planetary" too. Me smooshing together two planets is "multi-planetary" an impressive in its own right. Doesn't mean I can destroy/recreate/manipulate the entire galaxy in a blink. At all.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
1. Not once is an "alternate universe" ever implied or suggested in Thanos Quest. Ever. It's one or the other. The former makes more sense as will become immediately clear when I post a few scans. I couldn't care less where Magus was. We're talking about the whole "this and all universes" schtick in Thanos Quest.2. You pick up 1,000,000 tons and I pick up 100 tons, to say you've proven to be more powerful than me is not a fallacy. That's just god damn common sense.
3. No. It was never Multi-Eternity in any of the Infinity Gauntlet sagas ever. That blatantly ignores the consistently universal thematic scope of those stories. And when you try to apply it, everything becomes absurd: 616 Galactus performed a multiversal surgery? Thanos and his doppelganger were just lying to each other when they suggested that they could just go to an alternate universe and become god of that alternate universe with an alternate IG? 616 universe being the backbone of the multiverse doesn't mean squat concerning its scope of power and you know it. 616 Galactus is a backbone in his own way and his containment of Abraxas is multiversal in scope, but we don't we don't consider 616 Galactus' personal power to be multiversal+ capable of multiversal feats. As much as I like Galactus, he still feeds on planets and gets hurt by Thor's godblast. Magus' feat isn't any more impressive than an alternate Reed drawing on his original universe's energy from across universes. The IG didn't even create the duplicate shadow reality. It didn't even start the merger of the duplicate shadow reality. It just accelerated it. Throwing around the word multi-universal while in a narrow way might be appropriate does not even come close to suggest multiversality. A galaxy is a "multi-planetary" too. Me smooshing together two planets is "multi-planetary" an impressive in its own right. Doesn't mean I can destroy/recreate/manipulate the entire galaxy in a blink. At all.
1. It is funny how you say I don't care what Magus says.. when it doesn't fit your theory... I don't care what Thanos says (Universes) when it doesn't fit your theory... I don't care what Thanos and his dopple say they are lying... No, they are on panel statements taken as facts. Let me ask you this... Do you think the IG is a multiversal weapon.. That doesn't just mean whether it can affect the Multiverse as a whole or remake it.. By destroying the 616 he could essentially destroy the multiverse thus a multiversal weaspon correct. Even further.. with the IG you agree he can go to various realities and universe if a IG so chooses.. Thus again wouldn't that make it a multiversal weapon?
2. Furthermore, you still evaded my question again.. So.. you agree then that Reed has a exponentially greater mind than Doom? You still used the same theory again but didn't answer my question. The reason you don't answer is because Doom is one of your favorite characters. Plus, I like you feel like Dooms mind is just as good as Reed's. However, using your fallacy of one feat means superiority you thus would HAVE TO agree Reed is greater than Doom. You see though, when its put that way.. you just don't want to answer. The fact is, one feat doesn't make someone superior to another. Period.
^ 1. It's not that I don't care what Magus says. In fact, what Magus says is important because his pontificating and gloating consistently focuses on the 616 universe. It's that I don't care where he was. Because where he was had nothing to do with what Thanos said in Thanos Quest. You simply misunderstood and thought I was saying something else. As for the 616 universe is the lynchpin, 616 Galactus was saved from the brink of death by Thor's energies. That averted the destruction of the Marvel Multiverse in a round-about way. That doesn't make Thor's energies multiversal+. A lynchpin is just that, a lynchpin. Don't conflate the lynchpin with what the lynchpin is holding together. I knock down a single support beam with a single swing of a wrecking ball and bring down an entire building as a result doesn't mean I can bring down the entire building with that same wrecking ball by striking its exterior.
2. If you think that is what Reed did, then you have absolutely no problem concluding Reed is greater. You think you're being clever but when you try to put words into my mouth you're doing nothing but that: putting words into my mouth. You see though, when you compare one universe to the entire Marvel Multiverse, you just act like you don't get it. But you know deep inside that only a #*^@ing idiot could think that taking over a universe or accelerating a merger of a shadow rality onto another universe is anywhere even close to destroying/recreating/manipulating the entire Marvel Multiverse instantly.
Using semantics to ignore it and deflect from that doesn't change it's ringing truth.
Originally posted by OneDumbG01. I have always stated the ig is more powerful. Always. You obsess over it's scope but I am talking about what's more powerful in general. The answer is the ig.
^ Nobody's defining superior. There is no contradiction unless you confuse yourself. You got one guy blowing up a planet and another guy blowing up a galaxy, you compare the two. One is exponentially greater than the other. It's kind of obvious which one you conclude is superior. That ain't rocket science. It's common sense. 1. Don't backtrack. We all know what topic you and I have been debating. Which artifact has a greater scope of power. Couldn't care less whether an IG user beats a UN user. UN doesn't grant powerups or protection.2. Spiderman never attempted to blink the entire Marvel Multiverse either. So what? If the IG had done anything near the scope of destroying/recreating/manipulating the entire Marvel Multiverse in a blink, you'd have a point. Since it hasn't, you decidedly do not. It's a universal artifact at best. And it has mastery over power to a certain degree. The IG has limits. I've tossed a half dozen examples of these limits at you already no matter whether you try to ignore them or not (which you make excuses for blaming the user but failing to realize that you don't accept user limitations for the UN, which is just cute, really it is) "Absolute power?" "Ultimate power?" The Dark Side of the Force has been called that. Labels mean nothing. Pay attention to the facts. UN accomplished an exponentially greater feat than the IG.
3. Except when one shot nullifies and another nullifies/recreates and manipulates. Don't be obtuse. Surfer has Power Cosmic, Galactus has Power Cosmic. Doom can steal the Power Cosmic from Surfer with his traditional Power Cosmic Siphon Harness effortlessly. He can't do the same with Galactus. Different degrees of Power Cosmic. Different degrees of nullifcation power. IG has shown nothing even approaching the ability to create, adjust or manipulate an instantaneously multiverse-wide event.
Don't be absurd. Somehow 616 Eternity holding court over the 616 Gems imbues the 616 IG with greater power than the UN? Lulz. You're really grasping for straws now. And nobody cares what LT would do in a fight with a UN user.
It's clear the only thing you can fall back on is that you think an IG user can beat a UN user. Grats. Who cares. That doesn't prove the IG is more powerful than the UN. At all. UN > IG. When it comes to the question of pure power, multiversal in scope > universal in scope. Learn to live with it. It's the truth.
IG's got it's fair share of impressive feats (and somewhat embarassing limitations too), but the UN is just on an entirely different level.
2.You are comparing Spiderman whose abilities at best can destroy cars to someone with complete mastery over time, yada, yada......I mean are you serious?
With what we have seen the ig accomplish and what we can surmise it's capable of why would you say such a stupid thing? Why? It's actually laughable you would use the aunt may argument here with the ig's capabilities and feats.
3.Except it has shown the ability to manipulate the same energies with a thought. Magus said as much missing the reality gem while a bio confirms it. It's the same power that nullifies so making it bigger and encompass a wider are doesn't change the power used. If it nullifies something it's the same power and the same end result.
Your argument has been torn limb from limb. You are just picking and choosing and ignoring bios which support on panel statements/feats. It's getting a wee bit annoying by now.
The energies don't change so equating it with Galactus and the Surfer is moronic at best. Galactus gave the Surfer the pc and is a lot more powerful while the un's power level doesn't vary. It nullifies that's what it's supposed to do.
The un doesn't have the power to challenge Lt like the ig does nor has it even been described in the same manner as the ig.
You call the ig something wit embarrassing limitations that's a riot. The ig can manipulate the energies used in the un and I'd say that's a limitation of the un.
Complete mastery over power which means it's more powerful and can manipulate the energies of the un which it has done on panel.
You got nothing.
Originally posted by quanchi1121. No, you keep wishing that Magus w/IG beating Quasar w/ UN suggests that IG > UN. It doesn't when faced with the clear fact that UN achieved a feat of power that is exponentially greater than the IG ever did.
1. I have always stated the ig is more powerful. Always. You obsess over it's scope but I am talking about what's more powerful in general. The answer is the ig.2.You are comparing Spiderman whose abilities at best can destroy cars to someone with complete mastery over time, yada, yada......I mean are you serious?
With what we have seen the ig accomplish and what we can surmise it's capable of why would you say such a stupid thing? Why? It's actually laughable you would use the aunt may argument here with the ig's capabilities and feats.
2. No, I'm not serious. No idiot should think that just because an attempt wasn't made, that far-fetched possibility would outweigh a clear on-panel feat comparison. Key word being: should.
IG has limitations. Shown again and again over and over. You can pretend they don't exist and suggest that purple prose defines the IG more than on-panel feats and/or limitations, but that doesn't make your arguments any less retarded.
Originally posted by quanchi112Except it wasn't the same end result. Uh duh.
3.Except it has shown the ability to manipulate the same energies with a thought. Magus said as much missing the reality gem while a bio confirms it. It's the same power that nullifies so making it bigger and encompass a wider are doesn't change the power used. If it nullifies something it's the same power and the same end result.Your argument has been torn limb from limb. You are just picking and choosing and ignoring bios which support on panel statements/feats. It's getting a wee bit annoying by now.
The energies don't change so equating it with Galactus and the Surfer is moronic at best. Galactus gave the Surfer the pc and is a lot more powerful while the un's power level doesn't vary. It nullifies that's what it's supposed to do.
And then you woke up from your dream. Welcome to reality. You're a wee bit desperate and relying on negative proof fallacy, straw-manning, ignoring on-panel feats... well... that's just a whole bucket of fail. And no amount of posturing changes that.
Originally posted by quanchi112Neither does the IG. Who cares how it's been described. We care about on-panel feats. Not purple prose and wishful thinking.
The un doesn't have the power to challenge Lt like the ig does nor has it even been described in the same manner as the ig.You call the ig something wit embarrassing limitations that's a riot. The ig can manipulate the energies used in the un and I'd say that's a limitation of the un.
Complete mastery over power which means it's more powerful and can manipulate the energies of the un which it has done on panel.
You got nothing.
You haven't even proven that IG manipulated the actual energies. It's just as likely as rotiart expertly explained that he manipulated space or Quasar himself. Finally, Human Torch can manipulate a tiny portion of Firelord's heat. That doesn't make him more poweful than Firelord. Uh duh.
Purple prose doesn't outweigh on-panel feats.
I've got nothing to help you with your delusions. It's clear you'll have to free yourself. Good luck, but don't put any money on it.
Originally posted by OneDumbG01.Actually, it does and did. Does the un have complete mastery over power or does it just nullify things? Which one sounds more powerful to you?
1. No, you keep wishing that Magus w/IG beating Quasar w/ UN suggests that IG > UN. It doesn't when faced with the clear fact that UN achieved a feat of power that is exponentially greater than the IG ever did.2. No, I'm not serious. No idiot should think that just because an attempt wasn't made, that far-fetched possibility would outweigh a clear on-panel feat comparison. Key word being: should.
IG has limitations. Shown again and again over and over. You can pretend they don't exist and suggest that purple prose defines the IG more than on-panel feats and/or limitations, but that doesn't make your arguments any less retarded. Except it wasn't the same end result. Uh duh.
And then you woke up from your dream. Welcome to reality. You're a wee bit desperate and relying on negative proof fallacy, straw-manning, ignoring on-panel feats... well... that's just a whole bucket of fail. And no amount of posturing changes that. Neither does the IG. Who cares how it's been described. We care about on-panel feats. Not purple prose and wishful thinking.
You haven't even proven that IG manipulated the actual energies. It's just as likely as rotiart expertly explained that he manipulated space or Quasar himself. Finally, Human Torch can manipulate a tiny portion of Firelord's heat. That doesn't make him more poweful than Firelord. Uh duh.
Purple prose doesn't outweigh on-panel feats.
I've got nothing to help you with your delusions. It's clear you'll have to free yourself. Good luck, but don't put any money on it.
2.Then why would you say spiderman knowing full well the capabilities of the gems. Do you think statements like absolute power, ultimate power, or complete mastery are just hyperbole? Do you just want to disregard common sense and the stories the ig has appeared just because you really, really want the un to be more powerful?
Limitations? Hah. It manipulated the un. It has complete mastery over power. I wouldn't bring up limitations when we are discussing the un. I mean come on. The un nullifies things...whoopty doo. The ig can manipulate those very energies. Can the un stop time, alter your soul, mind wipe you, etc.? Let's keep talking about limitations this is going to be fun.
It was the same result. Something was nullified. If it's texas or shamu it's the same power just on a wider scope.
The ig has complete mastery over power and no limits, hello?? Keep leaving in the ff dreamworld you currently reside in.
I guess by your logic the un is greater than TOAA, right? It's all about feats and common sense who needs it amirite?
Originally posted by SoulDevourer
southeast asian = seperate countries (not part o China)pocket universe is inside a universe & its nothin next to universe
even gem contains a pocket universeif southeast country is 10X smaller then China then a pocket universe is wut, 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000X smaller then universe? lol its like less then grain o sand in Saarah desert ^^
it is like saying all southeast asia countries are mine... china being 616.. and vietnam.. laos.. etc.. being all the other ones noone ever bothers to consider...
but if one of those small nations had a nuke.. it can still blow the heck outta china. 😛
Originally posted by OneDumbG0Ummmmm yeah i'm being clever.. that is why u didnt answer my question for the 4th time
^ 1. It's not that I don't care what Magus says. In fact, what Magus says is important because his pontificating and gloating consistently focuses on the 616 universe. It's that I don't care where he was. Because where he was had nothing to do with what Thanos said in Thanos Quest. You simply misunderstood and thought I was saying something else. As for the 616 universe is the lynchpin, 616 Galactus was saved from the brink of death by Thor's energies. That averted the destruction of the Marvel Multiverse in a round-about way. That doesn't make Thor's energies multiversal+. A lynchpin is just that, a lynchpin. Don't conflate the lynchpin with what the lynchpin is holding together. I knock down a single support beam with a single swing of a wrecking ball and bring down an entire building as a result doesn't mean I can bring down the entire building with that same wrecking ball by striking its exterior.2. If you think that is what Reed did, then you have absolutely no problem concluding Reed is greater. You think you're being clever but when you try to put words into my mouth you're doing nothing but that: putting words into my mouth. You see though, when you compare one universe to the entire Marvel Multiverse, you just act like you don't get it. But you know deep inside that only a #*^@ing idiot could think that taking over a universe or accelerating a merger of a shadow rality onto another universe is anywhere even close to destroying/recreating/manipulating the entire Marvel Multiverse instantly.
Using semantics to ignore it and deflect from that doesn't change it's ringing truth.
Originally posted by Omega VisionIt's been explained. The ca was enough to beat Mandrakk's eternal power which consisted of Superman getting stronger and more powerful when needed. This sort of describes the power gem itself on it's own while the has limitless possibilities with what it's capabilities are.
They do according to forum rules unless otherwise specified but I'm curious as to how the IG beats the CA.
Originally posted by quanchi112
It's been explained. The ca was enough to beat Mandrakk's eternal power which consisted of Superman getting stronger and more powerful when needed. This sort of describes the power gem itself on it's own while the has limitless possibilities with what it's capabilities are.
Originally posted by Omega VisionAll you have to do is amp your strength which the power gem has done on occasion. The Thor showing wasn't anywhere near as effective as say Thanos wielding it. Thor was physically unbeatable, but there's Thanos and his toys.
Except the power gem has a lot of shit showings like the Thor vs Thanos incident. The Power Gem alone has never amped anyone to a degree where they could fight a true multiversal being like Mandrakk.
Ig wins. You just have a lot of hyperbole which hasn't really proven itself like the ig in a forum battle.
Originally posted by quanchi112
All you have to do is amp your strength which the power gem has done on occasion. The Thor showing wasn't anywhere near as effective as say Thanos wielding it. Thor was physically unbeatable, but there's Thanos and his toys.Ig wins. You just have a lot of hyperbole which hasn't really proven itself like the ig in a forum battle.
Originally posted by Omega VisionSo? No one else was even present to challenge Mandrakk and at the end of the story he was affected by much less. If I am using a bomb no one knows is present to kill someone this doesn't mean I can defeat someone in fair combat.
Mandrakk was draining everything in existence yet the Cosmic Armor resisted him. That's proof enough. The IG didn't beat anyone close to Mandrakk.
Ig beat abstracts who have proven their abilities on panel while the ca and Mandrakk did not. Just a lot of hyperbole wanked out imo.