Originally posted by KuRuPT ThanosiIf you think that is what Reed did, then you have absolutely no problem concluding Reed is greater. For the fourth time.
Ummmmm yeah i'm being clever.. that is why u didnt answer my question for the 4th time
Originally posted by quanchi1122. Purple prose doesn't mean squat. UN doesn't just nullify, it recreates and manipulates. You can keep trying to ignore what happened on-panel, but it's there in print.
1.Actually, it does and did. Does the un have complete mastery over power or does it just nullify things? Which one sounds more powerful to you?2.Then why would you say spiderman knowing full well the capabilities of the gems. Do you think statements like absolute power, ultimate power, or complete mastery are just hyperbole? Do you just want to disregard common sense and the stories the ig has appeared just because you really, really want the un to be more powerful?
2. They are not hyperbole when they are proven up to a certain point. Beyond that point, than you can't rely on hyperbole anymore to keep up your wishful thinking and fanboy fantasies alive. IG's shown to have universal control. UN's been shown to have Multiversal control. Do you really want to ignore what the UN did because you what the IG to be more powerful? The only way that happens is if the Abraxas arc never existed. It does. So get over it.
Originally posted by quanchi112Or it manipulated Quasar. Fact is, rotiart has made a more compelling argument that it manipulated Quasar. And it has mastery over power on a universal level. Keep assuming your conclusions, but when you can't admit that the UN nullifies, recreates and manipulates, all on a multiversal level, you're just deluding yourself.
Limitations? Hah. It manipulated the un. It has complete mastery over power. I wouldn't bring up limitations when we are discussing the un. I mean come on. The un nullifies things...whoopty doo. The ig can manipulate those very energies. Can the un stop time, alter your soul, mind wipe you, etc.? Let's keep talking about limitations this is going to be fun.It was the same result. Something was nullified. If it's texas or shamu it's the same power just on a wider scope.
The ig has complete mastery over power and no limits, hello?? Keep leaving in the ff dreamworld you currently reside in.
I guess by your logic the un is greater than TOAA, right? It's all about feats and common sense who needs it amirite?
It's not the same result. Bevcause it was nullified, then recreated and changed. You're not fooling anybody with your semantics.
Ad hominem doesn't change the fact that the UN still has accomplished an exponentially far greater feat than the IG. On-panel. You act like this isn't true. It is. Get over it.
Desperately trying to straw-man me doesn't change that the UN still has accomplished an exponentially far greater feat than the IG. On-panel. Lol.
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosihttp://i639.photobucket.com/albums/uu111/Rotiart26/INFINTYWARS04-35.jpg
ODG...1. You keep saying that the term universes was referring to pocket dimensions. However, that is pure and utter speculation on your part. Not one place was that ever stated nor implied. That is how YOU want to take it so it fits into your whole it's only universal theory. However, it was made quite clear and the term UNIVERSE was used to describe the feat. In fact Magus was located in a completely different universe and merged two other universes together. Not one time was pocket dimension mentioned ever.
This shows that magus created a fake galaxy to replace our milky way with. It wasn't a reality that already existed...
There are other issues.. like annihilation that shows that another dimension... like the negative zone.. can encroach on the prime universe.. and destroy it...
Hera in the recent Incredible hercules issues.. created a pocket dimension and was going to replace the prime with that pocket dimension, destroying the prime the in process..
A pocket universe can be created to replace the prime...
And in several issues.. they say they need to save... go to... etc.. our actually... save "a universe'... passing through dimensions/realities... etc... and referring to to saving our reality... well if they passed through numerous other realities.. and say that they are trying to save our reality... then that bears to mean that they aren't trying to save all the realities...
not once does it ever mention saving all the universes... or the multiverse... its generally shown in the singular...
i don't think the CA can adapt to anything..Mandark damage the armor to the point that it can't be repair..if it can adapt to anything..something like that would never happen..you just have to be powerful enough to destroy it..
as for this fight..i think the CA is more powerful..it did give the most powerful Monitor a good fight and the guy was feeding on the Multiverse..that gotta count for something..
Originally posted by Slaanesh
i don't think the CA can adapt to anything..Mandark damage the armor to the point that it can't be repair..if it can adapt to anything..something like that would never happen..you just have to be powerful enough to destroy it..
And the IG has been deactivated. It adapted to Mandrakk's attacks and really it was designed specifically to combat and defeat Mandrakk, kind of like a shark cage is designed to protect a diver from a shark. The shark might damage the cage to the point that it can't be used again but the fact is that it still did its job.
as for this fight..i think the CA is more powerful..it did give the most powerful Monitor a good fight and the guy was feeding on the Multiverse..that gotta count for something..
Originally posted by Omega VisionWow. Ultimate defense against the ultimate evil. This isn't an example of a writer trying to hype his story or anything. It has nothing to do with anything which occurs in marvel anyways.
Its the ultimate defense against the ultimate evil. Call it hyperbole if you want there isn't a better source of info than the infinite book.
2.I understand this. The point is the power to nullify doesn't change. I have stated this and it's pretty obvious.
Complete mastery over power. Whether your power can extend beyond the universe doesn't mean you are more powerful than someone with complete mastery over power in the universe you are located in. case and point, Odin.
It manipulated the energies and the scan I put up describes it in the same way the power gem works. Of course you would subscribe to any argument against the ig because you hate the fact it easily manipulated it's energies.
It nullified the one character it was meant to erase which was Abraxas. I don't see it erasing the ig, ever.
That feat doesn't override common sense or logical thinking in this matter. Ig grants you complete mastery over power so if a Celestial has a more powerful feat somewhere down the line do I suppose the same Celestial is somehow more powerful than the ig?
I guess since a lot of Surfer feats are more impressive than Zeus or someone without the library of feats we can assume Surfer is more powerful.
I guess TOAA isn't that powerful because he lacks feats. Your argument is terrible. Your argument doesn't change the fact the ig easily manipulated the energies of the un on panel. LOL. Complete mastery, pal.
All UN vs IG opinions aside. The IG was still not the most powerful device, LT was still more powerful then it. The CA however defeated the greatest threat to the Multiverse, a threat whose blood was enough to create another Mandrak who owned the Spectre and Radiant. The CA was damaged but that's ok, because the threat, the real Mandrakk was defeated, it had fullfilled it's purpose.
So it ends with the most powerful Artefact of the DCU vs one of the most powerful artefacts of the Marvel U. And if one doesn't consider the IG to be the most powerful device of the Marvel U and he still thinks that it's more powerful then the Multiversal CA (the greatest weapon of the DCU) then I'm lost for words, honestly.
A last note about the UN vs IG. The UN is, contrary to the CA, more of an offensive tool while the CA is both, defensive (it adapts to Mandrakks attacks) and offensive (it becomes stronger, strong enough to defeat the greatest Enemy). Would the UN bestow as much defensive power on it's user as it's destructive potential, it would be surely > IG.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
If you think that is what Reed did, then you have absolutely no problem concluding Reed is greater
No that isn't what I'M saying for the 4th time. I've made my point clear. I'm asking you if your going to apply the same fallacy to Doom and Reed that you are to the IG and UN. As you have stated... if you lift 100 tons compared to somebody lifting 20... they are clearly superior. Even though it never showed the "loser" every trying to lift 100 only 20 tons. You use this same criteria when talking about he UN and the IG. You said the UN has done something exponentially greater than the IG has ever done on panel.. Thus the UN is superior by on panel feats. This isn't me putting words in your mouth those are your words. SO... here is where you have to apply the same fallacy to your favorite character which you keep avoiding... Reed has a exponentially greater mind feat that Doom has. His feat with the IB and recreating the multiverse by using his mind as a map. Doom has NO feat that close correct? You see this is a question I'm asking YOU. So correct? If not please show me one feat on that scale. Now, being that Reed has an exponentially greater mind feat than Doom and in your eyes that warrants a superior label... Thus Reed is greater than Doom in YOUR eyes correct? You see again I'm asking YOU, your opinion. YOUR opinion not mine. I want you to apply your same fallacy to Doom and Reed. You refuse because as I said Doom is your favorite character so you keep deflecting the answer. I'm clearly asking you.. yet you keep coming back with well if that is how you feel. The fact is ONE feat doesn't prove someone or something is superior. This is something you should concede but refuse. It's a fallacy that your choosing to apply to the IG vs UN but not Reed vs Doom. That is the point I have proven.
Originally posted by rotiart
http://i639.photobucket.com/albums/uu111/Rotiart26/INFINTYWARS04-35.jpgThis shows that magus created a fake galaxy to replace our milky way with. It wasn't a reality that already existed...
There are other issues.. like annihilation that shows that another dimension... like the negative zone.. can encroach on the prime universe.. and destroy it...
Hera in the recent Incredible hercules issues.. created a pocket dimension and was going to replace the prime with that pocket dimension, destroying the prime the in process..
A pocket universe can be created to replace the prime...
And in several issues.. they say they need to save... go to... etc.. our actually... save "a universe'... passing through dimensions/realities... etc... and referring to to saving our reality... well if they passed through numerous other realities.. and say that they are trying to save our reality... then that bears to mean that they aren't trying to save all the realities...not once does it ever mention saving all the universes... or the multiverse... its generally shown in the singular...
No a duplicate Universe was being merged with the 616 Universe from a completely different plane of reality. Not one time or place did it EVER mention this being a pocket universe. Not ONE place. It was described as a duplicate/mirror UNIVERSE. The word UNIVERSE was used over and over again. Not one place was it called a pocket dimension. That is complete and utter speculation on your part.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Wow. Ultimate defense against the ultimate evil. This isn't an example of a writer trying to hype his story or anything. It has nothing to do with anything which occurs in marvel anyways.
I like how some people ignore the entire story.
Why is WWH considered the strongest Hulk. Is it because it was stated(about 2 times), or is it because of his feats? Obviously, it's choice number one. Do we question it? Perhaps. Though, the entire part of the story was that WWH was the strongest version of Hulk.
Same goes logic goes with Superman Beyond. The point was the strongest villain, the concept of evil, the darkness in every story vs the concept of good. Each side represented by one person. If that's not enough, it was stated how powerful they are. Heck, the book that knows everything about DCU, the void, and anything else states that the armor was created with perfection in mind, to defeat the ultimate enemy of the multiverse. A weapon that can adapt. It that ain't good enough, that you are in denial
Originally posted by Omega Vision
This argument of your seems to mostly boil down to you attempting to ignore everything that occurred in Superman Beyond. Why even debate about the Cosmic Armor if you don't accept what it is? The way it was written it was on a larger scale than the IG who's greatest feat is overpowering Eternity. Do you think Eternity would be anything more than a fly to Mandrakk or the Cosmic Armor? If you do then you clearly didn't read Superman Beyond. Of course we all already knew that.
Look I'm not arguing which is great the CA or IG.. I think arguments can be made on both sides. I think though, your missing the point about Eternity and what is represents.. This wasn't just the case of Eternity jobbing like it has in the past. It has lost and jobbed in some cases no doubt. However, in NONE of those cases was Eternity completly usurped and made nothing. Thanos totally REPLACED Eternity and its position of power in the Universe. That is a feat that is very impressive and shows a huge amount of power to completly replace an abstract which that much power and meaning in marvel with NO effort at all. That is what happened and I think what your kinda missing.
Originally posted by Omega VisionI accept it can adapt to eternal power and the challenges it faced against Mandrakk, but the ig is a completely different animal.
This argument of your seems to mostly boil down to you attempting to ignore everything that occurred in Superman Beyond. Why even debate about the Cosmic Armor if you don't accept what it is? The way it was written it was on a larger scale than the IG who's greatest feat is overpowering Eternity. Do you think Eternity would be anything more than a fly to Mandrakk or the Cosmic Armor? If you do then you clearly didn't read Superman Beyond. Of course we all already knew that.
I think Eternity would defeat both the ca or Mandrakk hands down.
I read it. I just wasn't blown away by the hyperbole and the writer really being silly with the word ultimate in an attempt to hype his own story.
Originally posted by Batman-PrimeSaying it matters where the artifacts are in their respective universes and figuring out who wins this way is trashy logic.
All UN vs IG opinions aside. The IG was still not the most powerful device, LT was still more powerful then it. The CA however defeated the greatest threat to the Multiverse, a threat whose blood was enough to create another Mandrak who owned the Spectre and Radiant. The CA was damaged but that's ok, because the threat, the real Mandrakk was defeated, it had fullfilled it's purpose.So it ends with the most powerful Artefact of the DCU vs one of the most powerful artefacts of the Marvel U. And if one doesn't consider the IG to be the most powerful device of the Marvel U and he still thinks that it's more powerful then the Multiversal CA (the greatest weapon of the DCU) then I'm lost for words, honestly.
A last note about the UN vs IG. The UN is, contrary to the CA, more of an offensive tool while the CA is both, defensive (it adapts to Mandrakks attacks) and offensive (it becomes stronger, strong enough to defeat the greatest Enemy). Would the UN bestow as much defensive power on it's user as it's destructive potential, it would be surely > IG.
We have compare what they are capable of and what they actually did on panel.
The ig can beat it any number of ways. the ig also had superior feats while the ca was just a bunch of vague, hyperbolic statements which aren't conclusive enough to support your theory it can defeat the ig.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Saying it matters where the artifacts are in their respective universes and figuring out who wins this way is trashy logic.We have compare what they are capable of and what they actually did on panel.
A logic I hoped you would be able to understand 😉.
We have compared and you kept ignoring. That's your way, promoting the Marvel feat while low balling or completly ignoring the better DC feat. It's kind of pointless to argue with you, that's your way, I give my best to ignore you 😉.
Originally posted by Batman-PrimeYou're still using faulty logic. Saying it can adapt to the ultimate dc threat has nothing to do with something from an entirely different company with entirely different powers.
A logic I hoped you would be able to understand 😉.We have compared and you kept ignoring. That's your way, promoting the Marvel feat while low balling or completly ignoring the better DC feat. It's kind of pointless to argue with you, that's your way, I give my best to ignore you 😉.
Saying it's higher up on dc's hierarchy is also faulty logic which sets the precedent for no matter what ends up being number 1 on dc it could be a gl ring that because it's higher up on dc's scale it beats the ig which is lower on marvel's scale.
Your logic is terrible. Don't blame me and fault me for calling you on it.
If you can't admit your logic is terrible then I don't know what else to say.
Originally posted by Batman-PrimeIt adapted to eternal power. You need to first tell me what eternal power is and then tell me how it can adapt to someone with complete mastery over time, space, etc. Whether or not your power can reach the multiverse or not doesn't have anything ti do with a forum matchup anyways.
^do what you always do. Keep low balling or ignoring that the CA can adapt to every threat and that it defeated the greatest threat to the entire DC Multiverse, while believing that a Universal device from Marvel could accomplish the same. It's you way 😉.
It's about effectiveness here. The more powerful item doesn't always win and the ca is only a good defensive weapon. The ig could mindwipe the ca user.
