Superman/Surfer/Thor vs Wonder Woman/Black Adam/Captain Marvel/Firelord

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
And this isn't impressive? Diana had no intention of fighting a bloodlusted mindcontrolled Superman (who would?); she wanted to get to the heart of the source: Max Lord. If Diana didn't really give a shit about Kal, do you think she couldn't have killed him? The simple fact that Superman was trying to kill her and couldn't seal the deal while Diana was trying her best to restrain him long enough to get to Lord is impressive to me. What does Wonder Woman have to do to impress you?

Not to mention that Diana is shown to consistantly hold her own against Superman and Captain Marvel as well as heralded as one of the top four physically most powerful heroes on the planet next to them and J'onn. Like I said, against a prolonged battle, most will agree Superman beats Diana, but it's not a stomp. I'm not accusing of you this, Quan, but a lot of people here really underestimate Diana just because she doesn't stomp all over Superman, when most high heralds simply can't stomp all over him.

What quan is thinking is that when she flew off, he thinks she was running when all in all, if he read the comic, she was basically trying to get to max lord and she was basically holding back against Superman.

Originally posted by Q99
Yea, you wouldn't bring up a showing... where she won? And fought him for quite awhile. Sure, it was something of a back and forth, degrading stalemate, until she got the opening to use the tiara, but she made that opening, and it's her tiara. That's like complaining, "Sure, Superman beat Mongul, but only because he flew and used heatvision."

Yes, he's very strong, strong enough that she does not want to take those hits, but that was him in full-out Lois death rage. She was even holding back a little, she commented. Yea, sure, she'll break combat at times to regroup and re-engage on better terms, but she makes those openings with her powers and then regains the initiative.

Then there's her time against DoomsdaySuperman (Superman enchanted by Circe to be lost in rage, covered in Doomsday spikes), where she didn't even get her lasso to start off with because Silver Swan stole it.

There's no way she's being taken out fast, which has been proven on a half-dozen occasions. Sure, she'll *eventually* lose due to his power advantage most of the time, unless he leaves an opening like in Sacrifice, but it's always a slow, hard process. Every time.

Now, throw in Firelord to that fight. It goes from 'stalemate' to 'win'.

You can't run away from your opponent here. The fight clearly showed us Superman's above her in terms of durability and strength.

I disagree. I think if Superman fights under his normal frame of mind he can beat her quickly. it's due to her lack of durability and lack of strength.

Superman>>WW the fact that one punch knocked her out shows that. Heck, he admits it in almost all versions possible

Originally posted by carver9
Quan, its pointless to debate against you because your mind is made up but I'm going to try one more time.

Her using her speed in combat against Supes is within her power. If she was moving to fast for Supes to find her then thats just how it is. Why wouldnt she disappear in battle if its well within her ability to do it? She was moving fast, Superman was unable to sense her, and she tagged him in the ears. Thats basically stating that flash need to slow down in battle so that the other person can see and hit him.

Do you really know the reason on why she called the birds? Did you read the comic because it was stated in that comic why she did that? She didnt use the birds to fight Superman, she used them as a distraction because she didnt want to kill Superman, she wanted to stop max lord.

Now answer this, if she would have stayed there and fought Superman without calling the birds, without fleeing, wouldnt her mission been pointless. Either Superman would have died or she would have died and max lord would have won.

When did Superman show that he was too strong for her? I didnt see that anywhere in that fight. He snapped her wrist, that shouldnt be something hard for either Superman nor Wonder woman to do.

She slit Superman throat and he was helpless. If she wanted, she could have killed him right there when he was holding his neck. Again, Wonder Woman used her Superior speed and overwhelmed Superman. She shouldnt have to slow down to make a fight better for you to like.

Avoiding and using your superior speed is two different things.

Carver9 owning Quanchi. This Forum improved. 😄

Originally posted by quanchi112
Well, not really. The only reason she lasted as long as she did was due to him being so completely out of his mind he allowed her to sneak up behind him with a free shot after he physically assaulted her.

I think she could have killed him when he was completely unaware of her presence. That isn't going to happen in a forum matchup.

Physically, Supes was head and shoulders above her.

Other characters in dc also have been portrayed closer to Superman than WW. I've never seen him easily snap Marvel's wrist or ko Black Adam with a punch like he did against WW.

She competes with them due to skill.

OMG, quan, what book were you reading?

First thing, Superman was thinking the entire time he was fighting her. It was Superman, he just thought he was fighting Doomsday and he was trying to kill her.

Prove to us that he was head and shoulders above her.

She competes with them due to skill and Strength and speed.

She is more skill and much more faster than Supes combat wise and she's a better tactician AND she is just as strong.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Well, not really. The only reason she lasted as long as she did was due to him being so completely out of his mind he allowed her to sneak up behind him with a free shot after he physically assaulted her.

I think she could have killed him when he was completely unaware of her presence. That isn't going to happen in a forum matchup.

Physically, Supes was head and shoulders above her.

Other characters in dc also have been portrayed closer to Superman than WW. I've never seen him easily snap Marvel's wrist or ko Black Adam with a punch like he did against WW.

She competes with them due to skill.

In a forum match up, both people will be in their right minds and fitting to their full capabilities. Under those circumstances, it's going to be even for a long time until Superman steadily begins to overpower her. He's not going to WTFPWN Wonder Woman, end of story.

As far as being head and shoulders above her, that's simply not the case in that specific fight, or in reality. His physical attributes are higher than hers across the board, sure, but not to the point where he can do away with her with ease.

Those people mentioned are also in this fight and opposite of Superman's team. What happens when either of the Marvels get ahold of Superman, Thor, or Surfer? It's going to be at least a gruelling stalemate for a while.

And if her skill is what allows her to compete with them, isn't that impressive in of itself?

Originally posted by quanchi112
Well, not really. The only reason she lasted as long as she did was due to him being so completely out of his mind he allowed her to sneak up behind him with a free shot after he physically assaulted her.

Rather, he was searching for her furiously and she boxed his ears almost immediately because she knew how he'd try to search for her.

And the reason she was out of his sight to begin with was because of her actions.

Physically, Supes was head and shoulders above her.

What's your excuse for the other times they've fought? Because they've fought a lot. "For Tomorrow", they stalemated until Superman pulled a 'Look, innocents! Can't fight me and save them, bye-bye!' to escape. DoomsdaySuperman. League of One.

Other characters in dc also have been portrayed closer to Superman than WW. I've never seen him easily snap Marvel's wrist or ko Black Adam with a punch like he did against WW.

Marvel and BA's bones, I'm not sure if they ever break, their durability might be better than Superman's. However, she has like a half dozen things they don't too. I have also never seen Superman fight a Marvel in "Lois-is-dead" mode, nor have I ever seen a Marvel pull those things.

When Marvel and Diana fought strength for strength they were dead even. Unsurprising, as they have pretty much identical power sources.

She competes with them due to skill.

The point is, she competes with them. Your argument relies on her... not competing with them.

Originally posted by quanchi112
After she fled the scene.

You can't run away from your opponent here. The fight clearly showed us Superman's above her in terms of durability and strength.

I disagree. I think if Superman fights under his normal frame of mind he can beat her quickly. it's due to her lack of durability and lack of strength.

LOL, quan, can you stop saying flee because she didnt flee. If you seen the fight you would have known that before she flew off she had Superman on the ground holding his ribs.

Durability, I agree, strength, equal, speed, wonder woman has him beat, skill, wonder woman has him beat, versatility, Supes has her beat.

They are pretty equal if you ask me and honestly, if Wonder Woman fight smart, using her skills like she did before, she could get the majority.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Superman>>WW the fact that one punch knocked her out shows that. Heck, he admits it in almost all versions possible

I think he regards Diana as an equal more so than he admits being >> than her.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Superman>>WW the fact that one punch knocked her out shows that. Heck, he admits it in almost all versions possible

And he also admits that Wonder Woman is just as strong, he also admitted during the amazo battle that Wonder woman is faster and Batman also admitted that wonder woman is faster.

Originally posted by quanchi112
After she fled the scene.

But the second clash was almost entirely her pounding on him. She fled to get to Max, but she definitely wasn't doing badly. Bruised ribs he was holding, injured ears, he was not in happy shape. There was no reason she had to flee combat-wise, only to get to Max.

And she can still fly away a bit then turn around and re-engage, they aren't fighting in a box.

You can't run away from your opponent here. The fight clearly showed us Superman's above her in terms of durability and strength.

When fully enraged, yea. When less enraged? Only by a little.

The same can be said about Superman to the Marvels, yet you aren't making the argument for them.

I disagree. I think if Superman fights under his normal frame of mind he can beat her quickly. it's due to her lack of durability and lack of strength.

They've done so, you're wrong.

Originally posted by carver9
And he also admits that Wonder Woman is just as strong, he also admitted during the amazo battle that Wonder woman is faster and Batman also admitted that wonder woman is faster.

WW has claimed Superman>her

And don't even get me started on Captain Marvel and how underrated he is.

uhuh

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Nice try. Post the scan and you'll see how wrong you are. The only thing WW is faster is reflexes. However, what can reflexes do if you can't move fast enough to dodge the incoming attack.

WW has claimed Superman>her

Move a bracer into the way then counterattack? (More precisely, it's hand-speed they were talking about. Reflexes plus how fast the individual blows are thrown)

Yea, Superman>WW. Not by much, though. Whenever they fight, it is close.

A normal fight between Superman and Wonder Woman will be a drawn-out battle that Superman wins unless he makes a mistake. Superman is overall more powerful but it's a tough long fight for him.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Nice try. Post the scan and you'll see how wrong you are. The only thing WW is faster is reflexes. However, what can reflexes do if you can't move fast enough to dodge the incoming attack.

WW has claimed Superman>her

She's also claimed to be his equal, Superman has claimed Diana to be his equal, third parties have claimed them to be equals, etc.

No one here is trying to claim that Wonder Woman's strength and durability is on the exact same level or exceeds Superman. It's not, and it doesn't. But DC is of the opinion it's close enough to warrant a closer look.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
Carver9 owning Quanchi. This Forum improved. 😄

Originally posted by carver9
OMG, quan, what book were you reading?

First thing, Superman was thinking the entire time he was fighting her. It was Superman, he just thought he was fighting Doomsday and he was trying to kill her.

Prove to us that he was head and shoulders above her.

She competes with them due to skill and Strength and speed.

She is more skill and much more faster than Supes combat wise and she's a better tactician AND she is just as strong.

She isn't just as strong. You saying she is is ignoring the comic itself.

Yeah, cheapshotting an opponent with his back turned isn't meeting him mano e mano.

Originally posted by Q99
A normal fight between Superman and Wonder Woman will be a drawn-out battle that Superman wins unless he makes a mistake.

^ this.

Originally posted by quanchi112
WW actually said he's too strong. People ignoring this to put WW where she doesn't belong is out of order.

Yea, he's stronger, she's got better hand to hand speed and skill. The latter two can make up for the former a heck of a lot.

Being stronger does not equal a quick win, stop saying it does.

Yeah, cheapshotting an opponent with his back turned isn't meeting him mano e mano.

Then he turns around and there's some hand to hand back and forth.

There's all the other fights too.

Originally posted by Q99
But the second clash was almost entirely her pounding on him. She fled to get to Max, but she definitely wasn't doing badly. Bruised ribs he was holding, injured ears, he was not in happy shape. There was no reason she had to flee combat-wise, only to get to Max.

And she can still fly away a bit then turn around and re-engage, they aren't fighting in a box.

When fully enraged, yea. When less enraged? Only by a little.

The same can be said about Superman to the Marvels, yet you aren't making the argument for them.

They've done so, you're wrong.

Marvel has been shown to be an equal in terms of strength to Superman while WW hasn't.

Then prove it.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Nice try. Post the scan and you'll see how wrong you are. The only thing WW is faster is reflexes. However, what can reflexes do if you can't move fast enough to dodge the incoming attack.

WW has claimed Superman>her

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
She's also claimed to be his equal, Superman has claimed Diana to be his equal, third parties have claimed them to be equals, etc.

No one here is trying to claim that Wonder Woman's strength and durability is on the exact same level or exceeds Superman. It's not, and it doesn't. But DC is of the opinion it's close enough to warrant a closer look.

Originally posted by Q99
Yea, he's stronger, she's got better hand to hand speed and skill. The latter two can make up for the former a heck of a lot.

Being stronger does not equal a quick win, stop saying it does.

Then he turns around and there's some hand to hand back and forth.

There's all the other fights too.

How many fights has she beaten him?