Superman/Surfer/Thor vs Wonder Woman/Black Adam/Captain Marvel/Firelord

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
These don't tell us anything we don't already know, though.

It's widely considered to be fact that Superman is the most powerful being on Earth (though you can debate it). And Wonder Woman nodding that he is stronger does not translate into "Oh, my god, you're so far beyond me it's not even funny."

Yea.

Also, one time the JLA was worried about Diana possibly being out of control/under the control of some massively powerful force. Batman said Superman was the only leaguer that could restrain her of that was the case.

While J'onn was in the room.

Everyone agreed with his assessment.

So Superman > Diana > J'onn. And even then I don't think Superman could quickly take J'onn out.

There are differences in power and the characters know this, but it's like two Olympic medal-winning boxers. The gold winner knows they's the strongest and the silver winner knows it too, but that doesn't mean gold medalist vs silver medalist isn't a heck of a fight where the gold medalist really needs to keep their head in the game every second of the fight.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
It's more like, "Superman, you are more powerful then me." Feats, Statement, accomplishments all go to Superman.

Superman doesn't go crazy on most of his opponents. Imperiex excluded.
WW could barely handle one imperiex probe; she nearly died.

Again, this is common knowledge.

😬

Superman is stronger and overall more powerful than Wonder Woman. Him being more powerful than her doesn't mean he stomps all over her. And it sure as hell doesn't mean she can't beat him.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Yes, because she wanted to sever Max' hold on Superman.

I already stated if she really wanted to she could probably have slit WW's throat while sneaking up behind him.

Superman would have beaten her.

I never said Superman cant beat her but what you fail to realize is that Wonder Woman can beat Superman also.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Again, this is common knowledge.

😬

Superman is stronger and overall more powerful than Wonder Woman. Him being more powerful than her doesn't mean he stomps all over her. And it sure as hell doesn't mean she can't beat him.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
It's more like, "Superman, you are more powerful then me." Feats, Statement, accomplishments all go to Superman.

Superman doesn't go crazy on most of his opponents. Imperiex excluded.
WW could barely handle one imperiex probe; she nearly died.

Wonder Woman was hurt when she fought an Imperex probe and black lightning and Supergirl (a weakened supergirl at that) defeated an imperex probe.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Unless he is holding back, or makes a huge mistake. Otherwise, she shouldn't win any fights against him.

And therein lies the problem.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Unless he is holding back, or makes a huge mistake. Otherwise, she shouldn't win any fights against him.

He wasnt holding back in their last fight and he got beaten. 😕

The thing about it was, she was holding back.

Originally posted by carver9
I never said Superman cant beat her but what you fail to realize is that Wonder Woman can beat Superman also.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
And therein lies the problem.

Originally posted by carver9
He wasnt holding back in their last fight and he got beaten. 😕

The thing about it was, she was holding back.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
He knocked her out. It's the end of the fight

An AMPED Superman TEMPORARILY knocked her out.

You did know being close to the sun gives him an amp right? 😕

Originally posted by quanchi112
I never said otherwise. this fight proves she can't take too many attacks from an all out Superman. I agree.

What attacks wasnt she able to take?

It wasn't an amp

Originally posted by xJLxKing
It wasn't an amp

Why wasnt it an amp?

Seriously, I can't see how anyone can claim Superman 10/10 over Wonder Woman if they're both at peak. A majority, sure, but Wonder Woman not being able to beat him, period?

Originally posted by xJLxKing
He knocked her out. It's the end of the fight

Except it wasn't, she was out maybe a second or two, stood up, and kept fighting *better* than before.

And that doesn't change that she came back and won.

Even if you count that as the 'end' on technicality, that merely makes it two fights, with him winning the first and her winning the second.

They've also fought a buncha other times.

Originally posted by Q99
Except it wasn't, she was out maybe a second or two, stood up, and kept fighting *better* than before.

And that doesn't change that she came back and won.

Even if you count that as the 'end' on technicality, that merely makes it two fights, with him winning the first and her winning the second.

They've also fought a buncha other times.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
KO, means knocked out. Usually knock outs are fast and quick. It was technically finished

An amped Superman koed her and after that ko, she defeated him twice.

Two defeats in one comic.

I just realized something: Quan is using the scans out of order, and also isn't including the more *clarified* pics from "Mission's End", which show things a bit more accurately, because they're from Diana's POV -- she gets manhandled just as brutally, but the battle-flow is clearer, and it shows that when it came to fighting HtH, they were much more even, and she could have gotten the kill (not that she'd have done so -- just keeping it in forum-context) after stunning Clark after dodging his blows/heat vision, and kicking him into the ground (which, BTW Quan, is the scan that comes after -- not the one you posted which is two pages before that).

But I do see why Quan *might* legitimately be misconstruing certain things, though honestly even with what he posted it is clear Clark wasn't "head and shoulders" above her. He has broader degrees of invulnerability - no contention there. He is stronger - true (though only marginally so). Diana has an edge in combat reflexes (not major, but an edge). He can take a beating longer than she can; she has weapons that can kill him (especially as they are being backed by physical power near his own). Don't see why this is difficult to understand.

Originally posted by tideoftime

But I do see why Quan *might* legitimately be misconstruing certain things, though honestly even with what he posted it is clear Clark wasn't "head and shoulders" above her. He has broader degrees of invulnerability - no contention there. He is stronger - true (though only marginally so). Diana has an edge in combat reflexes (not major, but an edge). He can take a beating longer than she can; she has weapons that can kill him (especially as they are being backed by physical power near his own). Don't see why this is difficult to understand.

Please stop. Don't try to give him even a shred of credibility when it comes to discussing Wonder Woman or this fight. He is so incredibly biased that it is not worth reading his posts. He has ALWAYS misused scans from that fight and claimed they stand for something they do not. This is nothing new. This is the same guy who thinks that WW with the gauntlets of Atlas and the sword of Hephaestus cannot beat Hulk or Thor. You cannot reason with him.

I also would advise people to stop using "She admitted he's superior" type arguments because characters statements are also inconsistent. We can find scans where Superman basically says that WW and CM are equals in strength. Diana says that she is faster than Clark. Batman calls Wonder Woman the greatest melee fighter on earth. A counter argument in the form of another characters quote can just about always be found.

That fight showed one thing. WW can hang with Superman. Yes, she took a beating, but so did he. Think about how long Supes had to be down for Diana to summon those birds and have them arrive. I'd reckon he was down longer than she was "knocked out" by his punch.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. A fight between those two would be brutal. On average, Superman would win because he is stronger and more durable. Diana would have a harder time knocking him out. However, if we add in WW's gear that bridges the physical gaps for me.

As for this fight, Team 2 wins 8-9 out of ten. Someone on Team 1 is getting double teamed and they are going down hard. I just can't see that happening after one of the 1-1 match ups goes for Team 1.

Originally posted by Sasaraixx
Please stop. Don't try to give him even a shred of credibility when it comes to discussing Wonder Woman or this fight. He is so incredibly biased that it is not worth reading his posts. He has ALWAYS misused scans from that fight and claimed they stand for something they do not. This is nothing new. This is the same guy who thinks that WW with the gauntlets of Atlas and the sword of Hephaestus cannot beat Hulk or Thor. You cannot reason with him.

You're right. Re-reading my post I realized I was being *reasonable* -- which normally wouldn't be a bad thing, except that when dealing with someone as *unreasonable* as Quan, that's a mistake. Which is unfortunate, because it is a shame he is so biased -- it's makes having a real discussion virtually impossible.

Oh, and I'd probably give Team 2 a *slight* majority, due entirely to the number advantage, and even that can depend on the order of who is directly attacking who/double teaming at a given time; Team 1 is a fierce trio, and have a major advantage in versatility -- they can make for heavy wins when they do win.