Originally posted by -Pr-
and that's the thing. Superman is comparable to pre crisis superman in strength too, as evident by their fights.
I disagree with this but to each his own. Prime ran through everyone and then, lets not even add to the fact that a group of heros (including Superman) was fighting a weakened prime but was unable to stop him and as soon as a dot of sunlight hit him, he through every hero (including Superman) off of him like they were nothing.
Now answer this, if Superman was just as strong as prime, during the Ion saga, why didnt they just throw Superman at prime, why did they have to rely on ion to stop Prime?
Why didnt Superman aid Ion when Ion was getting that a** whipped?
Again, its obvious.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
It's plain for me to see that since Superman was first brought back after COIE, he's much closer to PC levels than he has been earlier on. It's been a gradual progression, and honestly, it makes sense if he technically gets more powerful everyday due to sunlight exposure.
And what feats are these thats putting him at his pc levels?
Originally posted by quanchi112And I quote: "It feels awesome for me." Keep your indulgent self-stroking to yourself next time and I wouldn't ridicule you over it. You let me "pass?" Are you some sort of referee? I didn't go on a rant about Abraxas. I asked you to read it and was flabbergasted when you (i) not only refused to, but (ii) actually kept demanding I scan it for you, (iii) and when I refused that, started acting like you won the debate. It was utterly preposterous. Why didn't you just reread the comic that you owned?
I am not getting off on it it's just ironic because I let you pass and you went off on a rant because I couldn't remember every detail about an arc I read months ago. That's the only reason I brought it up.The amp was gone when he tore it off hence Moanrch's comments about his muscles shrinking. The amp wore off and it was a Prime feat without the amp.
It was wearing off and Monarch commented that it was nearly drained. So he was still amped when he was fighting him.
Originally posted by quanchi112You did troll. End of story.
I didn't troll I asked for evidence because i wasn't reread the entire arc for you or anyone else for that matter. I went to the end and it didn't mention multiverse so I asked for proof. End of story.Prime was also weakened and the moment he wasn't he easily tossed them aside like bums. I am aware of his restraint but that doesn't excuse his planet carrying feat he needed aid with. No one is going to get hurt if he uses all his strength and even suggesting he would hold back in that sort of scenario is complete crap. I apply common sense to much of my debating while feats such as this aren't feats where he held back. It defies common sense now I do acknowledge that Superman would hold back when hitting someone, but I don't see his strength feats or who he's beaten down as definitive proof he could even give Prime an actual fight if they both went at it. I see it as more or less the same as an Ion fight. it would take time but Prime would mop the floor with him.
Black Adam was weakened also and continued to throw off people aside like bums. DOS Doomsday did it too while Superman was there with all the heroes. And guess who singlehandedly ended that fight? Superman. Superman being thrown around along with other heroes isn't proof positive that he can't handle someone on his own. And Superman getting an assist with planet-moving suggests that there is a possibility he couldn't do it on his own, but it is not absolutely dispositive of his ability to do it on his own. You have to recognize how detrimental lead poisoning is to Daxamites, even Ion.
Originally posted by quanchi112And if you would recognize that the entire time he was fighting him with a fading Guardian-amp and only at the end did it fade, should provide you enough context. Take Monarch after he goes toe-to-toe with Guardian-amped Superman-Prime for an entire issue and then switch out Prime for Superman to bumrush and tear his suit off? Yeah, I see Superman doing it.
It wasn't guardian amped Prime at the end of the arc. if you read it you'd know the amp wore off at the point of the feat. Reread countdown if you think that was an amped Prime who performed the feat.Again, insults aside I guess you won't prove your case.
Insults aside, you still don't read comics. Reread Word War III for starters since you're so enamoured of a villain throwing off multiple heroes.
Originally posted by carver9
And what feats are these thats putting him at his pc levels?
The fact that his power levels as of now >>>> back when Byrne first re-introduced the mythos Post Crisis. Even PC Superman was shown at times to fall victim to a single rock of Kryptonite. Now, Superman can fly through a red sun and gods know much Kryptonite and still function enough to beat down someone who's depowered but isn't suffering the same poisoning effect he himself is.
Is he = to PC Superman as of now? No.
But he's much closer than people might think.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
It's plain for me to see that since Superman was first brought back after COIE, he's much closer to PC levels than he has been earlier on. It's been a gradual progression, and honestly, it makes sense if he technically gets more powerful everyday due to sunlight exposure.
aye.
Originally posted by quanchi112
So then basically didio is off here.
Didio said:
The two books that exist, as I like to say, on the “side” of continuity are Superman/Batman and The Brave and Bold . In both those cases, we really want to keep with the high concept of those series, and keep the high energy, and more importantly, allow for the open sense of storytelling that people would expect in those two books. So even though we’re making changes to Superman and Batman in their own series and in satellite series, Superman/Batman will stay true to form and just go with the biggest, wildest, craziest ride we can offer.
Originally posted by carver9
I disagree with this but to each his own. Prime ran through everyone and then, lets not even add to the fact that a group of heros (including Superman) was fighting a weakened prime but was unable to stop him and as soon as a dot of sunlight hit him, he through every hero (including Superman) off of him like they were nothing.Now answer this, if Superman was just as strong as prime, during the Ion saga, why didnt they just throw Superman at prime, why did they have to rely on ion to stop Prime?
Why didnt Superman aid Ion when Ion was getting that a** whipped?
Again, its obvious.
superman didn't fight a weakened prime. he was too busy fighting henshaw.
ion saga?
also:
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
The fact that his power levels as of now >>>> back when Byrne first re-introduced the mythos Post Crisis. Even PC Superman was shown at times to fall victim to a single rock of Kryptonite. Now, Superman can fly through a red sun and gods know much Kryptonite and still function enough to beat down someone who's depowered but isn't suffering the same poisoning effect he himself is.Is he = to PC Superman as of now? No.
But he's much closer than people might think.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
The fact that his power levels as of now >>>> back when Byrne first re-introduced the mythos Post Crisis. Even PC Superman was shown at times to fall victim to a single rock of Kryptonite. Now, Superman can fly through a red sun and gods know much Kryptonite and still function enough to beat down someone who's depowered but isn't suffering the same poisoning effect he himself is.Is he = to PC Superman as of now? No.
But he's much closer than people might think.
I agree, when it comes to resistance, Superman is>>>>>>>PC Superman. Anyone with any type of magic/K-nite could down PC Supserman and with ease but strength, durability, power, Superman isnt even CLOSE to his PC levels.
I dont even think Prime is close to a PC Superman (even though he's strong as hell).
Originally posted by OneDumbG0Due to your insulting tone yes I will rub it in. It's your negative impact on most posters on here. You're very quick to insult so you shouldn't expect people to treat you with respect when you show none yourself. That's common sense if you ask me.
And I quote: "It feels awesome for me." Keep your indulgent self-stroking to yourself next time and I wouldn't ridicule you over it. You let me "pass?" Are you some sort of referee? I didn't go on a rant about Abraxas. I asked you to read it and was flabbergasted when you [b](i) not only refused to, but (ii) actually kept demanding I scan it for you, (iii) and when I refused that, started acting like you won the debate. It was utterly preposterous. Why didn't you just reread the comic that you owned?It was wearing off and Monarch commented that it was nearly drained. So he was still amped when he was fighting him. You did troll. End of story.
Black Adam was weakened also and continued to throw off people aside like bums. DOS Doomsday did it too while Superman was there with all the heroes. And guess who singlehandedly ended that fight? Superman. Superman being thrown around along with other heroes isn't proof positive that he can't handle someone on his own. And Superman getting an assist with planet-moving suggests that there is a possibility he couldn't do it on his own, but it is not absolutely dispositive of his ability to do it on his own. You have to recognize how detrimental lead poisoning is to Daxamites, even Ion. And if you would recognize that the entire time he was fighting him with a fading Guardian-amp and only at the end did it fade, should provide you enough context. Take Monarch after he goes toe-to-toe with Guardian-amped Superman-Prime for an entire issue and then switch out Prime for Superman to bumrush and tear his suit off? Yeah, I see Superman doing it.
Insults aside, you still don't read comics. Reread Word War III for starters since you're so enamoured of a villain throwing off multiple heroes. [/B]
His body returned to normal. He wasn't amped via his muscles shrunk down to normal levels but hey you can think whatever you want to. You can dismiss the belt of strength for Thor and continue to think Prime still has a little guardian amp in him if you want to.
Black Adam was amped. Again, this was pretty evident when Isis died he got her power and has been explained many times but you'll just deny it anyways so who cares.
You also have to realize the difference with needing help to moving planets so quickly no one even notices. That's like watching someone lift up 400 lbs. on their own like nothing and watching someone else have two other people to help lift it off his chest.
Superman beat Doomsday. Superman has not beaten or even challenged Prime with their powers intact so assuming they are the same thing and completely dismissing the obvious difference in powers is ludicrous. I already know you form your opinions regardless of the details and the opinions of the writers so it doesn't matter to you in the end.
The only reason prime survived the fight was probably because of the amp I agree but at the end when push came to shove his own strength was great enough to rip open the armor.
We've seen what a whole room full of Superman and other beings could do against Monarch when they tried stopping him.
I read ww 3 and realized he was amped. You think he was depowered. I feel kinda bad for you to get so many things dead wrong and still feel you are correct.
Originally posted by -Pr-Ah, my mistake. I remember someone else saying something else but shame on me for not reading the interview myself. I'll have to check it out.
aye.Didio said:
The two books that exist, as I like to say, on the “side” of continuity are Superman/Batman and The Brave and Bold . In both those cases, we really want to keep with the high concept of those series, and keep the high energy, and more importantly, allow for the open sense of storytelling that people would expect in those two books. So even though we’re making changes to Superman and Batman in their own series and in satellite series, Superman/Batman will stay true to form and just go with the biggest, wildest, craziest ride we can offer.
superman didn't fight a weakened prime. he was too busy fighting henshaw.
ion saga?
also:
The only arcs I read from superman/batman were both arcs which had to do with darkseid.
Originally posted by quanchi112Rub in what? Reflecting your sarcasm back at you doesn't make me responsible for your sarcasm and hissy-fits in the first place. Next time, just read the comic and don't stick your foot in your mouth, k?
Due to your insulting tone yes I will rub it in. It's your negative impact on most posters on here. You're very quick to insult so you shouldn't expect people to treat you with respect when you show none yourself. That's common sense if you ask me.His body returned to normal. He wasn't amped via his muscles shrunk down to normal levels but hey you can think whatever you want to. You can dismiss the belt of strength for Thor and continue to think Prime still has a little guardian amp in him if you want to.
Black Adam was amped. Again, this was pretty evident when Isis died he got her power and has been explained many times but you'll just deny it anyways so who cares.
Actually his body was still buff. But irrelevant as you accede the basic premise below.
So Black Adam with Isis' power, after fighting heroes around the globe is equal to Superman Prime because of the similarity of their feats? If you're going to hide behind the Isis amp, then you better be prepared to understand the consequences.
Originally posted by quanchi112Who exactly was even watching?
You also have to realize the difference with needing help to moving planets so quickly no one even notices. That's like watching someone lift up 400 lbs. on their own like nothing and watching someone else have two other people to help lift it off his chest.Superman beat Doomsday. Superman has not beaten or even challenged Prime with their powers intact so assuming they are the same thing and completely dismissing the obvious difference in powers is ludicrous. I already know you form your opinions regardless of the details and the opinions of the writers so it doesn't matter to you in the end.
The only reason prime survived the fight was probably because of the amp I agree but at the end when push came to shove his own strength was great enough to rip open the armor.
Don't try to strawman me. DOS Doomsday is simply an example of a villain throwing around heroes along with Superman in one instance, and then being soloed by Superman when he mans up. Dismissing the obvious implications of the analogous situations is ludicrous.
Yeah, after fighting Monarch for an entire issue. A blood-lusted Superman would likely do the same thing with a fading Guardian-amp if you switched him in at that exact moment also.
Originally posted by quanchi112So what? We're not pitting a fresh Monarch against a blood-lusted Superman.
We've seen what a whole room full of Superman and other beings could do against Monarch when they tried stopping him.I read ww 3 and realized he was amped. You think he was depowered. I feel kinda bad for you to get so many things dead wrong and still feel you are correct.
Black Adam was depowered? He was beaten up and "weakened" from being beaten up. There's a difference. Enough with the straw-manning.
Originally posted by -Pr-
aye.Didio said:
The two books that exist, as I like to say, on the “side” of continuity are Superman/Batman and The Brave and Bold . In both those cases, we really want to keep with the high concept of those series, and keep the high energy, and more importantly, allow for the open sense of storytelling that people would expect in those two books. So even though we’re making changes to Superman and Batman in their own series and in satellite series, Superman/Batman will stay true to form and just go with the biggest, wildest, craziest ride we can offer.
superman didn't fight a weakened prime. he was too busy fighting henshaw.
ion saga?
also:
So Superman wasnt there?
http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/10/25/1539595/primvs12.jpg
http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/10/25/1539595/primvs13.jpg
http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/10/25/1539595/primvs14.jpg
http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/10/25/1539595/primvs15.jpg
http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/10/25/1539595/primvs16.jpg
http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/10/25/1539595/primvs17.jpg
And I'm pretty sure Supes cant take on a team like this and lets not forget, prime was weakened.
Originally posted by carver9
So Superman wasnt there?http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/10/25/1539595/primvs12.jpg
http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/10/25/1539595/primvs13.jpg
http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/10/25/1539595/primvs14.jpg
http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/10/25/1539595/primvs15.jpg
http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/10/25/1539595/primvs16.jpg
http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/10/25/1539595/primvs17.jpg
i never said he wasn't there. i said he didn't fight him. one punch is not a fight.
Originally posted by carver9
And I'm pretty sure Supes cant take on a team like this and lets not forget, prime was weakened.
he has his solar suit on. he wasn't nearly as weak with it as he was without it.
poster1: 'Superman doesn't go all out against Superboy Prime but if he'd do so, considering the increase in performance he has when he does it, he can most likely match Prime or at least be very close to his level'.
poster2:'*Insert random scans of Superman having a few scraps with Prime* SEE! You're wrong!'
facepalm
