How much stronger is Superboy Prime than Superman

Originally posted by -Pr-
i never said he wasn't there. i said he didn't fight him. one punch is not a fight.

he has his solar suit on. he wasn't nearly as weak with it as he was without it.

I guess I read you wrong, I thought you said Superman was busy fighting Henshaw. 😕

This alone tells you that Superboy Prime wasnt complete. Read what he say to Martian Manhunter.

http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/10/25/1539595/primvs3.jpg

And the point of my scans was to show you that Superboy easily tossed aside earth strongest heros (including Superman) like they were nothing.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Carver, no one is saying Superman is strong. Just that Superman when he is outraged, and nothing is holding him back, can be near Superboy's level. Though, I'd say, at normal levels, there are huge differences.

Besides the imperex probes showing (imperex probes also got there heads taken off by a space ship) which feats are you suggesting that makes a Superman with CIS off strength>Regular Supermans strength?

Originally posted by carver9
I guess I read you wrong, I thought you said Superman was busy fighting Henshaw. 😕

This alone tells you that Superboy Prime wasnt complete. Read what he say to Martian Manhunter.

http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/10/25/1539595/primvs3.jpg

And the point of my scans was to show you that Superboy easily tossed aside earth strongest heros (including Superman) like they were nothing.

Superman was busy fighting Henshaw while Prime was fighting the army. Then Superman showed up with a defeated Henshaw, Supergirl and Power Girl.

it says he wasn't fully recharged, yes, but the suit was charging him.

but he didn't, though.

not forgetting the fact that instead of actually getting in to a fight with him, Superman was trying to talk him down.

Originally posted by carver9
Besides the imperex probes showing (imperex probes also got there heads taken off by a space ship) which feats are you suggesting that makes a Superman with CIS off strength>Regular Supermans strength?

it's outright stated in OWAW that once he stops holding back, he gets more powerful. not hinted at, STATED.

Originally posted by Philosophía
poster1: 'Superman doesn't go all out against Superboy Prime but if he'd do so, considering the increase in performance he has when he does it, he can most likely match Prime or at least be very close to his level'.

poster2:'*Insert random scans of Superman having a few scraps with Prime* SEE! You're wrong!'

facepalm

Scraps has nothing to do with the above scan, Superman along with earth strongest heros was tossed to the side like cannon fodder by prime.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Superman was busy fighting Henshaw while Prime was fighting the army. Then Superman showed up with a defeated Henshaw, Supergirl and Power Girl.

it says he wasn't fully recharged, yes, but the suit was charging him.

but he didn't, though.

not forgetting the fact that instead of actually getting in to a fight with him, Superman was trying to talk him down.

it's outright stated in OWAW that once he stops holding back, he gets more powerful. not hinted at, STATED.

I know what scene you are referring to but I dont think that had anything to do with his strength at all.

So you honestly dont think Superman would give his all fighting Prime?

Originally posted by carver9
I know what scene you are referring to but I dont think that had anything to do with his strength at all.

So you honestly dont think Superman would give his all fighting Prime?

what scene?

he hasn't gone all out against prime bar IC, when he was weaker and really had to.

Originally posted by carver9
Scraps has nothing to do with the above scan, Superman along with earth strongest heros was tossed to the side like cannon fodder by prime.

i honestly don't understand how you can say that with a straight face.

Originally posted by -Pr-
what scene?

he hasn't gone all out against prime bar IC, when he was weaker and really had to.

i honestly don't understand how you can say that with a straight face.

I didnt say anything, the scans did.

Them tugging him to the ground, holding him, ripping his armor off while holding him down.

Superman saying "his armor, almost off".

Prime, gets a dose of sunlight and knock them out of the way easily.

http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/10/25/1539595/primvs15.jpg
http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/10/25/1539595/primvs16.jpg

Originally posted by carver9
I didnt say anything, the scans did.

Them tugging him to the ground, holding him, ripping his armor off while holding him down.

Superman saying "his armor, almost off".

Prime, gets a dose of sunlight and knock them out of the way easily.

http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/10/25/1539595/primvs15.jpg
http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/10/25/1539595/primvs16.jpg

no he doesn't. he launches himself in to the sky. plus, if superman was tugging at the armour, then prime's launch would have removed it, which it did.

I don't know. I'd ask SBP but he'd kill me for looking like an evil person.

SBP is thousands of galaxies of power stronger than regular supes

Thats what I'm thinking. Him moving planets without breaking a sweat proves how much stronger he is than regular Superman.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Hmmm.

In all honesty, I don't see the gap between them being *too* great. Granted, Prime is basically a "silver age Kryptonian", but the fact that he's without restraint certainly helps. I'd say Prime begins by default stronger, faster, and more durable than Supes, but if Superman ever went crazy/emo, he would be able to rival Prime in certain aspects. I'm personally of the opinion that Superman is steadily increasing his Pre-Crisis levels anyway. And this is, of course, without factoring in the Guardian Amp.

Nah the Legion story pretty much insinuated that this isn't the case. Prime is WAY above Superman.

Don't get me wrong Superman can definitely hurt Prime, and a fight to the death would last ages. But Prime is always getting way more power from the Sun than Supes.
As their powers progress, and im pretty sure they would evolve the more sunlight they are exposed to - maybe to the point where each is in full molecular control over their bodies - there is evidence to suggest that Kryptonian powers go way beyond the standard Robert Mayer- Arc type powers.

Prime is just a better biological specimen. Ist one of those weird comic book un-quantifiable, differences, (I.e. if u had a weightlifing competition, Im sure Supes would always be able to match prime sooner or later ) But Prime is always superior.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Rub in what? Reflecting your sarcasm back at you doesn't make me responsible for your sarcasm and hissy-fits in the first place. Next time, just read the comic and don't stick your foot in your mouth, k?

Actually his body was still buff. But irrelevant as you accede the basic premise below.

So Black Adam with Isis' power, after fighting heroes around the globe is equal to Superman Prime because of the similarity of their feats? If you're going to hide behind the Isis amp, then you better be prepared to understand the consequences. Who exactly was even watching?

Don't try to strawman me. DOS Doomsday is simply an example of a villain throwing around heroes along with Superman in one instance, and then being soloed by Superman when he mans up. Dismissing the obvious implications of the analogous situations is ludicrous.

Yeah, after fighting Monarch for an entire issue. A blood-lusted Superman would likely do the same thing with a fading Guardian-amp if you switched him in at that exact moment also. So what? We're not pitting a fresh Monarch against a blood-lusted Superman.

Black Adam was depowered? He was beaten up and "weakened" from being beaten up. There's a difference. Enough with the straw-manning.

I'm glad you admitted it was a more powerful Black adam and that you were wrong. It's becoming quite the trend when the two of us get together and sort these fascinating threads out.

No, I never said Black Adam was equal to Prime based on taking on a group of heroes. First off there are other circumstances along with him fighting an entire group which included Superman himself while depowered why I have reached the decision I have.

Let's go over them again shall we.

1.Prime ripped open Monarch's suit by himself.
2.Prime's superiority to top tiers which includes Superman.
3.Black adam doesn't hold back and when he hit Prime it tickled so common sense tells me if he hits Superman it's going to hurt so this is another example of Prime being well above Superman whether he holds back or not.
4.We saw Superman not hold back against WW and tbh I could see Prime practically killing her if he hit her as solidly as Superman did. To suggest he displayed anywhere near Prime level based on this showing is preposterous.
5.The planet moving feat which Prime did like he was holding a basketball while superman was busy moving a car with help. That's how not close it is and Superman doesn't hold back for something like that unless you think he's just a moron.
6.Prime wrecking the speed force which I don't see Superman able to do at all.

Now all of these reasons don't just have to do with strength they have to do with Prime's superiority over Superman which is apparent in every conceivable way.

No, you are trying to use superman's death as a reasonable point when the whole story centered around his death so of course he was going to man up to the threat. That's like saying superboy is greater against superman than Prime using his legion appearance because he was just brought back.

The DD feat isn't impressive considering where DD is at by today's standards.

Again, your interpretations go against the book's obvious meaning. it ran out and as a last ditch effort he ripped open the armor. Plain to understand and grasp but then again it's you I am talking to. You are the same guy who dismisses belts of strength and Isis power ups.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Carver, no one is saying Superman is strong. Just that Superman when he is outraged, and nothing is holding him back, can be near Superboy's level. Though, I'd say, at normal levels, there are huge differences.

Originally posted by Philosophía
poster1: 'Superman doesn't go all out against Superboy Prime but if he'd do so, considering the increase in performance he has when he does it, he can most likely match Prime or at least be very close to his level'.

poster2:'*Insert random scans of Superman having a few scraps with Prime* SEE! You're wrong!'

facepalm

Poster2. Because he holds back. Everything Superman does he is holding back so proof isn't required.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Based on the book lifting feat in Final Crisis I honestly believe Superman's physical strength is a mental contrivance and that he is as strong as he needs to be but at the same time he keeps his strength in check. That would explain how he can cuddle with his wife Lois without crushing her into paste and why as Clark Kent he isn't constantly breaking things.

.

I have a theory that explains this.

I think the Solar energy is used to synthesize a hormonal protein that works upon the brain in the same way LCD, or Endorphins do. Kryptonain skin cells photosynthesize this hormone in the same way that plants make glucose. Tis hormone then unlocks some kind of latent pisonic part of the kryptonain brain, that probably allows the Kryptonian to mentally manipulate their Inertial Fields. I choose inertial field manipulation cos it would explain a lot of his powers, and would give an adaptational advantage in the intense gravity of Krypton. This process must be unconscious- in the same way our unconscious brain controls our heart beats, for the following reasons. Superman's power seems to be more a physical rather than a mental, and if its an evolutionary process, then less complex lifeforms must have the same ability, many of which will not have a version of consciousness.This would also explain why Doomsday- who seems to have a very limited form of intelligence could tap into these psionic abilities. The greater exposure to the sunlight the more of the hormone is synthesized - and the more a Kryptonian can manipulate its Inertial field. Prime body is obviously far superior at synthesizing the hormone. Hence the superiority of his powers - and why he requires so little exposure to sunlight to gain such immense abilities.

don't even try and make sense of it, it's ever changing.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
don't even try and make sense of it, it's ever changing.

Normative advise that hold no credibility from someone whom regularly debates about the power levels of Superheroes !!!!

Originally posted by Cartesian Doubt
I have a theory that explains this.

I think the Solar energy is used to synthesize a hormonal protein that works upon the brain in the same way LCD, or Endorphins do. Kryptonain skin cells photosynthesize this hormone in the same way that plants make glucose. Tis hormone then unlocks some kind of latent pisonic part of the kryptonain brain, that probably allows the Kryptonian to mentally manipulate their Inertial Fields. I choose inertial field manipulation cos it would explain a lot of his powers, and would give an adaptational advantage in the intense gravity of Krypton. This process must be unconscious- in the same way our unconscious brain controls our heart beats, for the following reasons. Superman's power seems to be more a physical rather than a mental, and if its an evolutionary process, then less complex lifeforms must have the same ability, many of which will not have a version of consciousness.This would also explain why Doomsday- who seems to have a very limited form of intelligence could tap into these psionic abilities. The greater exposure to the sunlight the more of the hormone is synthesized - and the more a Kryptonian can manipulate its Inertial field. Prime body is obviously far superior at synthesizing the hormone. Hence the superiority of his powers - and why he requires so little exposure to sunlight to gain such immense abilities.

You should be sending some of these year one or secret origin writers your ideas. Since Supes power is derived from his own biology his powers should be explained with more hard science fiction.

I'm not sure about an inertial field being used as an explanation for his durability though.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I asked for proof and was completely honest about an arc I read half a year or longer ago what's the big issue. You posted the scans later so you quit crying about it.

I'm glad you admitted it was a more powerful Black adam and that you were wrong. It's becoming quite the trend when the two of us get together and sort these fascinating threads out.

No, I never said Black Adam was equal to Prime based on taking on a group of heroes. First off there are other circumstances along with him fighting an entire group which included Superman himself while depowered why I have reached the decision I have.

Wrong about what? When did I ever argue with you that Black Adam didn't possess Isis' power? Enough with the straw-manning. And good to know you still constantly dodge facts that undermine your position's credibility. Black Adam was messed up and still throwing off heroes left and right right to the very end. But I suppose it's convenient for you to ignore this for the sake of your own convoluted position. It's becoming quite the trend when the two of us get together and sort these fascinating threads out.

I know you didn't, but you seem happy to hide behind an Isis-amp which is obviously reduced by the sheer punishment Black Adam endured throughout World War III.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Let's go over them again shall we.

1.Prime ripped open Monarch's suit by himself.
2.Prime's superiority to top tiers which includes Superman.
3.Black adam doesn't hold back and when he hit Prime it tickled so common sense tells me if he hits Superman it's going to hurt so this is another example of Prime being well above Superman whether he holds back or not.
4.We saw Superman not hold back against WW and tbh I could see Prime practically killing her if he hit her as solidly as Superman did. To suggest he displayed anywhere near Prime level based on this showing is preposterous.
5.The planet moving feat which Prime did like he was holding a basketball while superman was busy moving a car with help. That's how not close it is and Superman doesn't hold back for something like that unless you think he's just a moron.
6.Prime wrecking the speed force which I don't see Superman able to do at all.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Now all of these reasons don't just have to do with strength they have to do with Prime's superiority over Superman which is apparent in every conceivable way.

No, you are trying to use superman's death as a reasonable point when the whole story centered around his death so of course he was going to man up to the threat. That's like saying superboy is greater against superman than Prime using his legion appearance because he was just brought back.

The DD feat isn't impressive considering where DD is at by today's standards.

Again, your interpretations go against the book's obvious meaning. it ran out and as a last ditch effort he ripped open the armor. Plain to understand and grasp but then again it's you I am talking to. You are the same guy who dismisses belts of strength and Isis power ups.

Equivocation. Just gave you an instance where being tossed around along with other heroes isn't dispositive of Superman's ability to solo an opponent. I accept your concession.

DOS Doomsday power compared to Superman Prime's power is completely inapposite. Stop straw-manning. You have based most of your position on Superman Prime manhandling heroes in his rampages, including Superman. Which ignores the inverse ninja law and how Superman came back to solo someone who manhandled him and others in Death of Superman.

He ripped his amor AFTER he used his entire Guardian-amp to fight Monarch for an entire issue. Give Superman a Guardian-amp + bloodlust and I see him doing the same to Monarch. What don't you get?

Originally posted by Cartesian Doubt
I have a theory that explains this.

I think the Solar energy is used to synthesize a hormonal protein that works upon the brain in the same way LCD, or Endorphins do. Kryptonain skin cells photosynthesize this hormone in the same way that plants make glucose. Tis hormone then unlocks some kind of latent pisonic part of the kryptonain brain, that probably allows the Kryptonian to mentally manipulate their Inertial Fields. I choose inertial field manipulation cos it would explain a lot of his powers, and would give an adaptational advantage in the intense gravity of Krypton. This process must be unconscious- in the same way our unconscious brain controls our heart beats, for the following reasons. Superman's power seems to be more a physical rather than a mental, and if its an evolutionary process, then less complex lifeforms must have the same ability, many of which will not have a version of consciousness.This would also explain why Doomsday- who seems to have a very limited form of intelligence could tap into these psionic abilities. The greater exposure to the sunlight the more of the hormone is synthesized - and the more a Kryptonian can manipulate its Inertial field. Prime body is obviously far superior at synthesizing the hormone. Hence the superiority of his powers - and why he requires so little exposure to sunlight to gain such immense abilities.

I think a good explanation for strength and durability would be psionic control over molecules activated by physical contact with the kryptonian rather than inertial fields. That would explain how Superman can push a planet without breaking it apart: he takes hold of the planet as if it were one solid object rather than a collection of many tiny objects.

It would also explain how he can control his strength: simply by not wanting to hurt Lois with his strength means that it doesn't happen. Also the reason he doesn't destroy Metropolis at night while sleeping or blow away people simply by breathing is that his powers require conscious activation. The durability aspect could be explained as control over his internal molecular structure.

By not allowing molecular bonds to be broken he unconsciously prevents injury and only significant destructive power can overcome that. This would help explain why his clothes are so damn durable despite being apparently (IIRC) sewed from ordinary fabric by Ma Kent. Just as he can prevent a planet from breaking apart due to the pressure he applies while pushing it he can also keep his clothes from coming apart unless sufficient destructive force/trauma is applied (ex: the Doomsday fight from DOS).

His flight would be tricky to explain. Using this hypothesis he could use his control over the air molecules surrounding him to push himself through the air. But in space I can't say what the explanation would be. Heat vision is simple: he's simply using his psionics to funnel solar energy through his eyes. They've explained ice breath as him super-compressing the air in his lungs so that its super-cold. I have no problem with that explanation.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Don't project your constant whining about it onto me. I only posted the scans after you cried and b1tched for several pages about it when you were too lazy to read your own damn comic you possessed. Stop being delusional about this.

Wrong about what? When did I ever argue with you that Black Adam didn't possess Isis' power? Enough with the straw-manning. And good to know you still constantly dodge facts that undermine your position's credibility. Black Adam was messed up and still throwing off heroes left and right right to the very end. But I suppose it's convenient for you to ignore this for the sake of your own convoluted position. It's becoming quite the trend when the two of us get together and sort these fascinating threads out.

I know you didn't, but you seem happy to hide behind an Isis-amp which is obviously reduced by the sheer punishment Black Adam endured throughout World War III. 1. ... after Guardian-amp Prime fought him for an entire issue.
2. ... if you ignore the fact that Superman holds back.
3. ... but Black Adam's reliance on his magic-infused punches and SMP's lack of a magic weakness =/= Superman Prime being inherently stronger. Don't conflate lack of vulnerability with strength.
4. ... and this isn't about Wonderwoman. And if you want to point to different fights with different characters, I don't see Bart Allen raping Superman like he rapes Prime.
5. ... and asking for help =/= being a moron.
6. ... and this doesn't make any sense whatsoever. When did Prime "wreck" the Speed-Force? If you're an idiot.

Equivocation. Just gave you an instance where being tossed around along with other heroes isn't dispositive of Superman's ability to solo an opponent. I accept your concession.

DOS Doomsday power compared to Superman Prime's power is completely inapposite. Stop straw-manning. You have based most of your position on Superman Prime manhandling heroes in his rampages, including Superman. Which ignores the inverse ninja law and how Superman came back to solo someone who manhandled him and others in Death of Superman.

He ripped his amor AFTER he used his entire Guardian-amp to fight Monarch for an entire issue. Give Superman a Guardian-amp + bloodlust and I see him doing the same to Monarch. What don't you get?

Ignore what the fact he was more powerful and the fact most of the heroes weren't fighting with anywhere near the ferocity they would bring against Prime. It's you who wants to draw a false comparison.

Let's go over the facts.

1.Prime was weakened.
2.Adam was more powerful.
3.Adam's face was practically burned off at the end.
4.Prime easily cast them aside and went on to fight much more powerful characters after all these heroes jumped him.
5.The jsa was purposely holding back against him and the group who fought Prime was much more formidable.

1.Irrelevant.
2.Not when carting planets around he doesn't. He also didn't hold back against WW. There's an example which has you shaking in your boots.
3.I already stated the comparisons in every aspect has Prime on a much higher level and that these instances weren't in and of themselves proof of a superior strength advantage.
4.That's a fear of the flashes as it took how many to defeat him the first time. Do you think it would take that many to beat Superman? Also Superman wouldn't wreck the speed force.
5.Needing help doesn't equate to moving it at the speed and with the ease in which Prime did also. it suggests he's nowhere near as strong as Prime if you look at it logically. Then again I guess Superman was afraid he'd crush the planet with his pinkies and it's irrelevant it all is because he holds back.
6.When he came back in infinite crisis.

I don't just have instances of that I have them lifting the same kinds of mass. Prime did it like it was nothing while supes needed a few others to help him lift it. Prime also ripped open the Monarch's armor.

Most of the stuff Prime has done Superman couldn't do. Not even close. I bet if you asked any writer who handled both characters they'd agree. I'm right as always.

What feats does superman have that makes you think they are closer?