Superman Vs Wonderwoman

Started by bluewaterrider58 pages

Over the weekend I came across the following, and I was struck by how germane it seems, how well illustrated by the going-ons in this thread...

(The most relevant portion is probably right around the 5 minute mark until about 15 minutes after.)

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Lec 22 | MIT 9.00SC Introduction to Psychology, Spring 2011

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lanm...;feature=relmfu

(1 hr 6 min 43 sec)
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I should make clear:

I rarely ever do anything for exactly ONE reason.

The clip above?
Not merely to corroborate a point or points made in this thread.

But also to make people aware, with many of the participants and readers in this thread being students of high school or college age, there are online resources you can use to supplement your education.

FREE ones.
That nearly anyone of even average intelligence can use.

For instance, if you just HAPPEN to have enough curiousity to check out the beginning moments of the clip above, you learn that M.I.T., one of the nation's top-ranked universities, has the bulk of class offerings and lectures available online, in fact, right on YouTube.

Like, nearly the ENTIRETY of it.

Use something like, say, the top-ranked tutoring site Khan Academy along with it

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Khan Academy on Nightly News
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4dk6woz4Do
(2 min 32 sec)
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... and you might find it possible to achieve dreams you'd long completely given up on.

As stated on the previous page, I know of only one case where an opponent tried a phasing attack on Superman that looked anything like the rock-bonding Sakki's partner, Gakidou, subjects Kara to.

The attack absolutely debilitated Superman, as shown last post of the previous page.

It might be worth noting the writer was the same man in all 3 cases.

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Source: JLA #86, Volume 1
Writer: Joe Kelly
Penciller: Doug Mahnke
Date: November 2003
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http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/JLA_Vol_1_86

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Wow.

This thread is turning out to be more remarkable than I THOUGHT it would be...

YOU admitting an opponent has a valid point about something?

I'll turn some attention to a few of the other things you mentioned, probably after dinner.

But, I have to say, over the weekend I came across the following, and I was struck by how germane it seems, how well illustrated by the going-ons in this thread...

(The most relevant portion is probably right around the 5 minute mark until about 15 minutes after.)

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Lec 22 | MIT 9.00SC Introduction to Psychology, Spring 2011

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lanmHS0JwYI&feature=relmfu

(1 hr 6 min 43 sec)
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Oh, and I should make clear:

I rarely ever do anything for exactly ONE reason.

The clip above?
Not merely to corroborate a point or points made in this thread.

But also to make people aware, with many of the participants and readers in this thread being students of high school or college age, there are online resources you can use to supplement your education.

FREE ones.
That nearly anyone of even average intelligence can use.

For instance, if you just HAPPEN to have enough curiousity to check out the beginning moments of the clip above, you learn that M.I.T., one of the nation's top-ranked universities, has the bulk of class offerings and lectures available online, in fact, right on YouTube.

Like, nearly the ENTIRETY of it.

Use something like, say, the top-ranked tutoring site Khan Academy along with it

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Khan Academy on Nightly News
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4dk6woz4Do
(2 min 32 sec)
---------------------------------------------------------------------

... and you might find it possible to achieve dreams you'd long completely given up on.

So I can be a multi-trillionare, CIA Paramilitary Operative Astronaut Ninja who owns his own midget-exclusive MMA promotion?

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Regardless of your reason for doing so, Delta, thank you for posting this!

I knew there had to be a fight like this, for in Wonder Woman v2 #102, Byrne features Wondy having a dream where she re-envisions it.
But I could never discover particulars about it.
Later on, I found some artwork someone posted that looked similar to it, in the style of George Perez. Still I got no leads.

You're welcome.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Anyway, great showing that this is, more to the point, knowing how much Photobucket sucks
(proof: the PB-controlled deletions you have in your account on page 39 of this very thread),
allow me to use KMC as our IHP so I can guarantee some preservation of it.

Again, though, whatever your reasons, a sincere thank you for posting this.

They got deleted because I moved the scans. I've been overhauling my account, making it much much better organized.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Yes, Delta. But now, re-examine the fight.

It is not Sakki who dodges Kara.
And it is not Sakki who does the bulk of the damage.

It is Sakki's PARTNER, Gakidou, using her phasing ability that results in all that.

Apparently you didn't pay attention to where Sakki was knocking her around Hollywood? She did no better than Superman did before her emotions messed with his power, if anything she looked worse.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Here, too, Kara seems to fare better than her cousin.

She's in pain because of the rocks bonded into her.

But she's still standing and fighting.

Or at least trying to fight.

I know of only one case where an opponent tried a similar attack on Superman.

But the attack absolutely debilitated him:

(from Fernus, the Burning, JLA v1 #85)

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
As stated on the previous page, I know of only one case where an opponent tried a phasing attack on Superman that looked anything like the rock-bonding Sakki's partner, Gakidou, subjects Kara to.

The attack absolutely debilitated Superman, as shown last post of the previous page.

It might be worth noting the writer was the same man in all 3 cases.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source: JLA #86, Volume 1
Writer: [B]Joe Kelly

Penciller: Doug Mahnke
Date: November 2003
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/JLA_Vol_1_86 [/B]

Not the best argument, since it's clear that Superman's more deeply phased into the table than the rocks in Kara's skin. Plus, I think that the JLA's table is made of denser stuff than regular rocks, considering the punishment it's taken and not been obliterated into sub-atomic particles. Oh, and here's Superman taking a more equivalent attack than the one you presented.

And he's for all intents and purposes fine. He doesn't act like nothing happens, but he shrugs it off within a couple panels. This is also written by Kelly, as well as the Fernus phasing Superman into the JLA table example. So that just backs my point that Superman being in the table is not equivalent.

Oh, and I should point-out that this is EXACTLY the type of argument you make, get busted on over being WRONG about, and then dance around it at best, completely ignore it at worst. And there's several examples.

Originally posted by Delta1938

I should point-out that this is EXACTLY the type of argument you make, get busted on over being WRONG about, and then dance around it at best, completely ignore it at worst. And there's several examples.

If you believe that, you should present those examples.

More typically, I'm "busted on" things I'm actually RIGHT about, TOLD that I'm wrong about all the same (because that's the nature of debate forums, I guess?) and proceed on to things of more interest.

I'm not particularly concerned about such things, either, for the simple facts that:

1) I've learned that FAR more people read this type of thread than actually write and respond to it,

2) The average Superman fan in this kind of forum is not willing to concede much of anything on scarcely any point no matter how big or small or how right or wrong they are

and

3) It's neither possible nor necessarily desirable to convince every opponent that they're wrong. There's a much larger audience to reach, and one much less biased and responsive to good reasoning.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Originally posted by Delta1938

"I should point-out that this is EXACTLY the type of argument you make, get busted on over being WRONG about, and then dance around it at best, completely ignore it at worst. And there's several examples. "

If you believe that, you should present those examples.

I have brought-up some of them.

Originally posted by Delta1938
Let's see the numerous other examples you've danced around or flat-out ignored when proven wrong on(Superman being Sun-Amped in MOT #13, the double standard of using consistency of art to prove your point on Supergirl/Dark Kara switch but ignoring the consistency of everybody BUT Diana drawing blood, the fact that your attempts to say anything before 2003 doesn't count has been proven wrong, how you keep arguing Aquaman broke the Imperiex Probe's hand when he couldn't crack one punching it at the same time Diana slashed it with an ax, Superman showing to be stronger than Power Girl and others combined on two occasions, and so on and so forth).

Some other stuff, you tried to dismiss a point I made of Superman showing to be stronger than Wonder Woman by using a strawman. You tried to argue that if being calm meant being stronger, then Darkseid would be stronger than Superman since he rarely gets mad, and said but you don't think I'd agree with that. Which, I actually do think he's stronger, but not because of the calm thing. And your strawman was pretty bad. I didn't use Superman being calm in and of itself to argue he was stronger than Wonder Woman, but to argue HOW MUCH stronger, since he was calm when performing actions that SHOW he's stronger than her. You also tried to discredit Superman damaging Imperiex Probes but Wonder Woman couldn't by saying she doesn't have Superman-like durability, and bringing-up the explosions they make. Which is absolutely pointless because she was trying to crack one before she ever knew what happens when you do crack one. And she was using an enchanted(most likely) ax, AND Aquaman was punching it at the same time as her swing was connecting. Yet, nothing happened. She was only able to crack it by smashing the chink in it's armor with the edge of her shield. Superman got to a point where he could punch through them. And I know I could go through and find other examples.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
More typically, I'm "busted on" things I'm actually RIGHT about, TOLD that I'm wrong about all the same (because that's the nature of debate forums, I guess?) and proceed on to things of more interest.

No, you're not right. You've proven wrong with scans and then just pretend you were right all along. Do you really think anybody honest and competent will take statements over showings? That's all you've presented for Kara>Superman. The only other example you've given is arguing that she took being phased into stuff better than Superman, but use an example that is not equivalent(since Superman was phased much deeper into likely more dense matter) and then don't seem to acknowledge Superman going through a more similar example as Kara and be fine. This is the same "logic" you use when you try to discredit Superman drawing blood from a Kara in SUPERGIRL #5 but Wonder Woman failing, by One: Ignoring that the art was consistent for everybody who struck a Kara EXCEPT for Diana, Two: Gave an inaccurate comparison of Hercules bloodying New Earth Superman's nose with an elbow strike to the nose, and Three: Showing Wonder Woman bloodying Supergirl's nose in a different comic(which also isn't equivalent to Superman punching her in the mouth). Or like I pointed-out above, the strawman of trying to discredit Superman's performance against Imperiex Probes compared to Wonder Woman's because she doesn't have Superman-like durability and wouldn't do well against the energy discharge on cracking one. Absolutely worthless argument since she didn't know what would happen when she tried to crack one by attacking it head-on(not a weak spot) and failed despite having an ax AND help. How are you right in these examples, and numerous others?

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
I'm not particularly concerned about such things, either, for the simple facts that:

1) I've learned that FAR more people read this type of thread than actually write and respond to it,

2) The average Superman fan in this kind of forum is not willing to concede much of anything on scarcely any point no matter how big or small or how right or wrong they are

and

3) It's neither possible nor necessarily desirable to convince every opponent that they're wrong. There's a much larger audience to reach, and one much less biased and responsive to good reasoning.

😄 😂 🤣 AHAHAHAHAH Like you're one to say someone's unwilling to concede to much of anything on any point. Wonder Woman's inferior durability was an absolute NON-factor in her looking inferior(in regards to strength) against Imperiex Probes compared to Superman, Aquaman breaking the Probe's hand either was misinterpreted by you or the material the Probes are made of get substantially less durable when cut-off from the power source(since he couldn't crack one with a full-on punch while Wonder Woman simultaneously hit it with an ax), Superman has actual showings to be superior to Supergirl(comparing the armored Luthor examples, him catching her punch AFTER the Kryptonite poisoning you make a deal out of was cured, getting through a force field that she couldn't even with a Green Lantern's help), Superman has statements of being stronger/more powerful than Wonder Woman in the very same storyline that he blatantly overpowers her twice, leaving-out how it makes no sense whatsoever that Kara having "too much love/hate to control" somehow translates into her being more powerful than Superman, that Sakki's powers weren't manipulating emotions but his strength showed to be fueled by the anger of others, and oh yeah, you didn't admit that your example of Fernus phasing Superman through the JLA's table wasn't equivalent and when Superman went through a much more equivalent example as Kara, showed no worse for the wear than her. And that's without digging through the thread for more examples.

Let's go with this Sakki the Hate Furnace one then.

You're trying to say Superman's floor treatment at Gakidou's house was equivalent to what Kara endured.

But Gakidou herself tells us she wasn't trying to hurt Superman, and, as a result, only ghosted and bonded the smallest portion of him ...

Contrast the speech of that rather gentle and pleading Gakidou to the Gakidou of Supergirl13 ...

"Leave here boy, and live" ... ?

And notice now the EXTENT of phasing.

It's not some small portion of a leg like Clark endures.

Kara's entire BODY shows rocks poking out of her, both front and back AND including more sensitive areas like her neck and face ...

Notice now the SECOND comment Gakidou makes.

Sounds a lot like she intends to take Kara OUT, doesn't it?

And it's with good reason Gakidou sounds like she wants to take Kara out.

It's because she DOES want to take Kara out.

Gakidou is now a member of the League of Assassins.

The leader of the League, hired by a mysterious woman, sends Gakidou and Sakki on that mission.

Here is the prelude to that encounter Kara has with Gakidou and Sakki ...

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Let's go with this Sakki the Hate Furnace one then.

You're trying to say Superman's floor treatment at Gakidou's house was equivalent to what Kara endured.

But Gakidou herself tells us she wasn't trying to hurt Superman, and, as a result, only ghosted and bonded the smallest portion of him ...

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Contrast the speech of that rather gentle and pleading Gakidou to the Gakidou of Supergirl13 ...

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
"Leave here boy, and live" ... ?

And notice now the EXTENT of phasing.

It's not some small portion of a leg like Clark endures.

Kara's entire BODY shows rocks poking out of her, both front and back AND including more sensitive areas like her neck and face ...

Did you not pay attention?

"They're just rocks, child. BONDED to your skin when you're no longer GHOSTED." BONDED to your skin

And you're comparing some common rocks being bonded to her skin to Superman being phased DEEP into the JLA's metal table?

No, Blue, this is not a credible comparison. This would be like comparing getting hit by Demetrious Johnson(fights in the UFC's new Flyweight, 125 lbs., division; formerly at 135 lbs. Bantamweight) to being slammed on your head on concrete by Shane Carwin(a genetic freak who weighs around 300 lbs. before cutting to make the 265 lbs. limit) and saying that the guy who got hit by Johnson is tougher because he was fine than the guy who got slammed by Carwin, and thinking it's comparable because both are UFC fighters.

EDIT:

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Notice now the SECOND comment Gakidou makes.

Sounds a lot like she intends to take Kara OUT, doesn't it?

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
And it's with good reason Gakidou sounds like she wants to take Kara out.

It's because she DOES want to take Kara out.

Gakidou is now a member of the League of Assassins.

The leader of the League, hired by a mysterious woman, sends Gakidou and Sakki on that mission.

Here is the prelude to that encounter Kara has with Gakidou and Sakki ...

Well then, either her skill in using her power or her level of skill dropped since she simply phased Kara's skin, and not her entire body, into it. 'Cuz in what I believe was her first appearance, she had phased essentially the entire body of Yakuza Ninjas early in the issue. That or she made it seem like she could phase a Kryptonian worse than she actually could pull-off when she said she only phased Superman's skin into stuff. Which is exactly what we see with Kara.

EDIT 2:

If you're comparing having rocks phased all over the body in your skin to try and argue that Supergirl's superior to Superman, remember this?

Steel needles(and steel>common rock) phased into him, all around. In fact, a whole lot more, including those sensitive areas like the face and neck that you're trying to argue makes Kara's showing superior. Granted, he doesn't appear to have any coming out of his back, but still a whole lot more covered, and a more durable material, and also on those sensitive areas you tried arguing.

Got to hand it to you, Delt -- if you are not THE most inventive debate participant I've encountered on a comic forum, it's only because the others I've gone against were professionals, having day-jobs as lawyers or graphic artists.

Acupuncture is a very different experience from what Kara is subjected to, of course.

It's like trying to compare the surgery Wolverine performs on Cyclops under the direction of Cecelia Reyes to remove a bomb planted by Bastion inside of Syke, to Wolverine slashing a hand ninja's guts open in the middle of a fight.

Superman is not shutting his eyes against the pain of what Gakidou is treating him to there as a long-standing healing practice.

Kara, on the other hand, is. Here's some of the areas marked for ID ...

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
And it's with good reason Gakidou sounds like she wants to take Kara out.

It's because she DOES want to take Kara out.

Gakidou is now a member of the League of Assassins.

The leader of the League, hired by a mysterious woman, sends Gakidou and Sakki on that mission.

Here is the prelude to that encounter Kara has with Gakidou and Sakki ...

Dah ...

Stupid KMC ihp wouldn't load my scan correctly the first time ...

Note the LoA leader's words:

"I will send The Ghost, and The Dark, and The Dream."

It should be fairly obvious to even the casual reader now that "the ghost" refers to Gakidou.

To clear up further confusion:

The lady who hires the League of Assassins is Dark Angel. An alternate universe version of Donna Troy, apparently.

The leader of the League of Assassins during this time is Cassandra Cain. Yes, THAT Cassandra Cain -- Batgirl. She wasn't exactly a hero during this arc of her career.

In fact, noting the failure of the rest of her league, she resolves to take Kara down, and out, herself:

Further confirmation that Cassandra was LoA's leader, very formidable and dangerous, and very much playing for keeps.

Scan 1 of 3.

Further confirmation that Cassandra was LoA's leader, very formidable and dangerous, and very much playing for keeps.

Scan 2 of 3.

Further confirmation that Cassandra was LoA's leader, very formidable and dangerous, and very much playing for keeps.

Scan 3 of 3.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Got to hand it to you, Delt -- if you are not THE most inventive debate participant I've encountered on a comic forum, it's only because the others I've gone against were professionals, having day-jobs as lawyers or graphic artists.

Acupuncture is a very different experience from what Kara is subjected to, of course.

It's like trying to compare the surgery Wolverine performs on Cyclops under the direction of Cecelia Reyes to remove a bomb planted by Bastion inside of Syke, to Wolverine slashing a hand ninja's guts open in the middle of a fight.

Superman is not shutting his eyes against the pain of what Gakidou is treating him to there as a long-standing healing practice.

Kara, on the other hand, is. Here's some of the areas marked for ID ...

This is EXACTLY the type of dancing around, ignoring and strawmaning you tend to do.

You're half right about what Superman's going through is very different. Only, it's worse. The fact that it's acupuncture changes nothing. They both have foreign objects made of solid matter phased into their skin. The only difference that MATTERS is that Superman's got a lot more, and his foreign objects are steel, compared to her common rocks. The INTENT means nothing.

When I had to have my abscess lanced and drained, the doctor started cutting it with the scalpel before the pain stuff he injected into the skin had a chance to numb it. Do you think that his INTENT, that he was cutting into my skin to drain an infection would've made it less painful than if someone had cut into it with a scalpel just for shits and giggles? Your comparison of Wolverine using his claws to perform surgery compared to just disemboweling someone is a complete and utter strawman. By the way, do you think it'd hurt any less for Wolverine to cut into you with his claws if he's doing it for surgery compared to going just as deep in an attack? No, the INTENT of it changes absolutely nothing whatsoever.

Not to mention that you flat-out IGNORED the fact that you bringing-up Kara's having rocks in her skin is NOT comparable to Superman having been merged with a flippin' metal table. The only thing that makes them similar is both were events done through the use of phasing. My example of calling someone tougher because he was fine after Johnson punched him, than the guy Carwin slammed the head of on concrete, and saying they're comparable because both Johnson and Carwin are UFC fighters, IS a valid analogy and not a strawman, unlike your argument.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Dah ...

Stupid KMC ihp wouldn't load my scan correctly the first time ...

hahah I think you have more problems with this than I do with Photobucket, and I have much greater ease, speed, organization, generally better quality scans, and oh yeah, neither have to horribly reduce the size or cut them panel-by panel to fit, OR post about 7 septillion different times just to show all of a single fight.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Note the LoA leader's words:

"I will send The Ghost, and The Dark, and The Dream."

It should be fairly obvious to even the casual reader now that "the ghost" refers to Gakidou.

To clear up further confusion:

The lady who hires the League of Assassins is Dark Angel. An alternate universe version of Donna Troy, apparently.

The leader of the League of Assassins during this time is Cassandra Cain. Yes, THAT Cassandra Cain -- Batgirl. She wasn't exactly a hero during this arc of her career.

In fact, noting the failure of the rest of her league, she resolves to take Kara down, and out, herself:

What does any of this have to do with anything? If the intent was to kill Supergirl, so what? We don't see very much done, all we have is the rocks bonded with her skin.

So, I found the remnants of "Mild-Mannered Reviews".

Once, a premier "go to" site for information on all things Kal-el.

Now ...

Sad to see so many things disappearing.

Anyway, the Mild-Mannered Reviews review for Action788, which only appears on the website itself once every 5 clicks ...

(which is why I'm transcribing it here instead of just giving the link)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Action Comics #788
Scheduled to arrive in stores: February 27, 2002
Cover date: April 2002

Writer: Joe Kelly
Penciller: Pascual Ferry
Inker: Scott Hanna, Mark Morales, Keith Champagne

"Mercy, Love, and Blood: Part Two"

Reviewed by: Nick Newman ([email protected])

Long ago, in Japan, a young Clark rushes up a hill. Reaching the top, he is shocked to find Tokai sitting cross-legged at the peak, surrounded by dead bodies. Horrified, Clark asks Tokai what he has done. Without turning, he responds that he has shown them the true face of the world.
In current times, Superman awakes from his daze to find Gunshin and Byakko attacking Sakki. Gunshin closes in to attack Sakki, but Byakko phases through her husband and attacks Sakki without anger, pushing him back. However, Gunshin doesn't heed his wife's warning and proceeds again to attack Sakki in anger. As his staff strikes Sakki, Superman is hurled backwards by an explosion from his chest. The Black Tide has him in its clutches. Byakko again stops her husband and tells him that if they don't help Superman, he will die. Gunshin resists, insisting that they cannot let Sakki escape, but a glare from his wife silences his protests.

In Vienna, Lois sits and thinks to herself about Clark. She wonders why she keeps trying to be on the opposite side of the world as him, and the only idea she can come up with is that she hates him. Her thoughts are interrupted by her mother entering the room. Lois begins to ask what they are going to do that day, but her mother stops her and insists that Lois tell her what is wrong.

Clark wakes up to find hundreds of needles embedded in his skin. Sitting above him, Byakko explains that the Black Tide disrupts the flow of energy through the body, and the only hope of stopping it is acupuncture. Luckily, she was able to 'ghost' the needles into Superman's skin and heal him before the Black Tide claimed him as its victim. Quickly dressing, Superman tells Byakko that this doesn't change anything, and he still needs to bring Byakko and her husband to justice before they kill again. Byakko argues that sometimes killing is the only alternative. Before he can say another word, she phases down through the floor, warning Superman to stay far away from her husband.

Lois' mother proceeds to tell Lois about all of the horrible things that her father did. Lois questions why they stayed married, and her mother replies simply that there wasn't any problem that the two of them couldn't solve. Marriages are formed in fire. Lois needs to ask herself whether she can solve this problem with her mother, or if she needs her husband instead.

In Japan, Gunshin walks through a crowd of gangsters, deflecting bullets and tossing bodies left and right. One of the fleeing clan members frantically calls for Sakki to come and help defend them. Outside, Sakki replies that he will let Superman take care of Gunshin, and then take care of Superman himself. As Gunshin prepares to kill the clan leader, Superman suddenly crashes through the wall.

No longer the focus of Gunshin's attention, he gives a command and dozens of ninjas jump out at Superman and Gunshin. The two fight off their assailants and then Superman turns and attacks Gunshin. Gunshin responds in kind. Outside, Sakki stands and feeds off of their anger. Suddenly Superman cries out in pain as his foot is pulled into the ground by Byakko, bonding his flesh to the stone. She leaps out of the ground and urges her husband to stop. Superman stops, and tells her that if his belief in the sanctity of life is so horrible, then Gunshin should just kill him. Falling to his knees, Superman prepares himself for the killing blow. Gunshin raises his sword and brings it sailing down through the Man of Steel's neck. Right through, as Byakko grabs the blade at the last moment and ghosts it, allowing it to pass harmlessly though Superman's body.

Infuriated, Gunshin storms away as Superman gets to his feet. Byakko asks if Superman really thought that it would have killed him, and Superman replies that if not for her intervention; there is no doubt in his mind that he would have died. Byakko then promises to change the system, and prevent her husband from killing again.

Back in Metropolis, Clarks walk in to his apartment to find Lois home. She stops him from speaking, and then tells him that she didn't want to come home because she holds him responsible for the death of her father. Shocked, Clark asks if she is leaving him as a tear rolls down his cheek. Lois turns to him, and tells him that they need each other, and the first thing she needs to hear is that he doesn't hate her. As Clark thanks her, the two embrace, and Lois promises to never leave again.

In Japan, Gunshin is meditating when Sakki suddenly bursts into the room. Overwhelming the hero, Sakki thanks Gunshin for hating him so much, and kills him. Returning home, Byakko finds her husband lying on the floor, broken and bleeding, and cries that it shouldn't have ended like that.

http://www.supermanhomepage.com/comics/2002-post-crisis-reviews/c-review-2002.php?topic=16-action788

Originally posted by Delta1938

The fact that it's acupuncture changes nothing. They both have foreign objects made of solid matter phased into their skin. The only difference that MATTERS is that Superman's got a lot more, and his foreign objects are steel, compared to her common rocks. The INTENT means nothing.

When I had to have my abscess lanced and drained, the doctor started cutting it with the scalpel before the pain stuff he injected into the skin had a chance to numb it. Do you think that his INTENT, that he was cutting into my skin to drain an infection would've made it less painful than if someone had cut into it with a scalpel ...?

Level with me, Delt -- you've never actually HAD acupuncture treatment, have you?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lefDAjJZDk
(0 min 59 sec)