Sentry vs Flash (Wally)

Originally posted by Cartesian Doubt
I will now use your argument to show whats wrong with your logic

Proposition 1.) It takes eight for 8 min's for light to travel to the sun.

Proposition 2.) It about 10 seconds (estimated) to communicate a sentence similar to the one made by Sentry, in our WORLD.

Proposition 3.) Sentry traveled to the sun in the time it took to communicate the sentence.

Conclusion) In conjunction of 1,2,3, Sentry traveled to the sun quicker than the speed of light.

However for the argument to be valid, the conclusion must be true when all the premises are true. However premise 2.) is based on a false assumption. Its based on OUR worlds concept of communication. However this would be false in our world any way, cos he wouldn't be able to communicate the sentence in our world cos sound doesn't travel in a vacuum. Therefore Sentry must be using a non standrad form of communication. This doesn't mean he's using telepathy or anything, he could be using sound waves, but they travel in a vacuum, in the marvel universe. But you can't say anything about this non standard form of communication, as you have never experienced itself. So prescribing, standard speed times to it is false.

Proposition 1: well that makes him bloody fast doesn't it.
Proposition 2: yes, it was a sentence.
Proposition 3: Yes he did.

The whole vacuum of space thing doesn't matter due to the fact that Sentry doesn't have to breath anymore. Heck he could have made those speech bubbles out of manipulated light.

Originally posted by DarkOdin
Not even close buddy your logic is just plain wrong. It is common practice in comics and canon For certain character to talk in space. Unless you got some feat to back you up showing a talking in space in comics some how is different then talk on earth which there is a million of feats to show it is normal you got jack. the distance from earth to the sun is the same in the marvel universe as it is the "real world"

If you think i am wrong bring a MOD in talking in space and on earth doesn't matter. Were are not talking about sound traveling in the real world it is the comics

No its common place for fans to use faulty Logic to try and sex up power levels. But as I have just mentioned, the only way this argument carries any weight is if the writers intended to indirectly demonstrate that the character was travelling F.T.L..If there is no writer intention (And I doubt there is), your argument has to uphold to the standards of P.L. Logic. And they don't.

The writer hasn't gone out and made Sentry/Superman/Thor or whoever look faster than light, by using the speed of communication to demonstrate the speed traveled. They just want the character to get to whatever place they needed to go to, and they want to make it interesting with a bit of dialogue.

When Bendis (Or whoever is writing the comic) they don't do the following; "Oh well it takes three seconds to say "RETARD", and it takes 8 mins to go to the sun; so ill have Sentry flying to the sun in the time it takes to say "RETARD", to demonstrate he can fly faster than light".

In reality they want SEnntry to go to the sun, and they want to make the page look more interesting with a piece of dialogue.

By applying all this quantitative crap to the scenario, you are just reading into things that aren't there! And I have shown what is wrong with the "Quantitative crap" u are applying, so please stop doing it!

Originally posted by DarkOdin
😕 There is 40 plus years of comics that say you have no clue what you are talking about

No there is about 7 years worth of this retarded forum, applying false logic to this and similar scenario that makes you think your credulous belief is right. Its not !!!!!!!!

Originally posted by Cartesian Doubt
No its common place for fans to use faulty Logic to try and sex up power levels. But as I have just mentioned, the only way this argument carries any weight is if the writers intended to indirectly demonstrate that the character was travelling F.T.L..If there is no writer intention (And I doubt there is), your argument has to uphold to the standards of P.L. Logic. And they don't.

The writer hasn't gone out and made Sentry/Superman/Thor or whoever look faster than light, by using the speed of communication to demonstrate the speed traveled. They just want the character to get to whatever place they needed to go to, and they want to make it interesting with a bit of dialogue.

When Bendis (Or whoever is writing the comic) they don't do the following; "Oh well it takes three seconds to say "RETARD", and it takes 8 mins to go to the sun; so ill have Sentry flying to the sun in the time it takes to say "RETARD", to demonstrate he can fly faster than light".

In reality they want SEnntry to go to the sun, and they want to make the page look more interesting with a piece of dialogue.

SO you are using real world logic/facts to prove Sentry didn't talk in a normal manner
but when someone uses real world logic/facts. to prove something they are wrong 😆

Unless you have proof he was talking diffently you got jacl like i said bring a MOD in to back you up

By applying all this quantitative crap to the scenario, you are just reading into things that aren't there! And I have shown what is wrong with the "Quantitative crap" u are applying, so please stop doing it!

I love sexing up power levels.
Who knows what happens between panels.
For arguments sakes.
It's possible he destroyed his particles and shot them in front of the Sun. Effectively teleporting there Star Trek style. Regardless he did it it and now it's canon.

Originally posted by the ninjak
Heck he could have made those speech bubbles out of manipulated light.

Even if we use this proposition, it no longer shows that Sentry was traveling faster than light.

What we cannot speak of, we should be silent. Ludwig Wittgenstein (using Kantian logicl).

Originally posted by the ninjak
I love sexing up power levels.
Who knows what happens between panels.
For arguments sakes.
It's possible he destroyed his particles and shot them in front of the Sun. Effectively teleporting there Star Trek style. Regardless he did it it and now it's canon.

But there is NO way of discerning he did it faster than light, cos the main proposition is based on a fallacy. The stop watch in these circumstances is faulty, because its a real world stopwatch, that cannot be applied to Marvel.

"SO you are using real world logic/facts to prove Sentry didn't talk in a normal manner
but when someone uses real world logic/facts. to prove something they are wrong laughing

Unless you have proof he was talking diffently you got jacl like i said bring a MOD in to back you up

By applying all this quantitative crap to the scenario, you are just reading into things that aren't there! And I have shown what is wrong with the "Quantitative crap" u are applying, so please stop doing it! "

No u are using real world facts to propose he moved faster than light. And I'm saying you can't do that, by the standards of deductive Logic that apply to everything. Logic and facts about the world aren't the same thing. Do u not know anything about the distinction between Inductive and deductive logic ? One take precedence over the other. Deductive is all encompassing, inductive can only be applied to OUR world. U are applying indeductive logic to a possible world. A school boy error by any half witts standards.

Originally posted by Cartesian Doubt
But there is NO way of discerning he did it faster than light, cos the main proposition is based on a fallacy. The stop watch in these circumstances is faulty, because its a real world stopwatch, that cannot be applied to Marvel.

Man you type fast.

Which is why I added the Star Trek teleportation science possibility.
How fast can the Enterprise go? No doubt faster than light. But the ship needs Inertial Dampeners + Shields to protect the ship for random asteroids and debris. Sentry has the power of a hundred exploding suns to propel him + matter manipulation! If any of that debris was to threaten him he can just exist as unstable molecules and be left unharmed. Which is also why I added teleportation. He could move at extreme speeds and send those molecules ahead of himself if he keeps focusing on the Sun.....all while saying a sentence.
Man I'm rambling. 🙂

Originally posted by the ninjak
Man you type fast.

Which is why I added the Star Trek teleportation science possibility.
How fast can the Enterprise go? No doubt faster than light. But the ship needs Inertial Dampeners + Shields to protect the ship for random asteroids and debris. Sentry has the power of a hundred exploding suns to propel him + matter manipulation! If any of that debris was to threaten him he can just exist as unstable molecules and be left unharmed. Which is also why I added teleportation. He could move at extreme speeds and send those molecules ahead of himself if he keeps focusing on the Sun.....all while saying a sentence.
Man I'm rambling. 🙂

And it has nothing to do with what we are talking about. You are trying to use these hypothetical scenarios to back up the faulty stop watch claim, but none of them show why the faulty stop watch, isn't faulty, in fact non of them even make reference to the faulty stop watch.

The faulty stop watch being, how the speed it takes us to communicate in our world.

The point of my argument is demonstrate why this faulty stop watch cannot be applied ! Showing how Sentry could possibly make it to the sun, faster than light doesn't, show why we should believe he could move faster than light in the first place. The only argument that supports this claim, is the faulty stopwatch presupposition. Which by the standards of logic should be rejected.

Originally posted by Cartesian Doubt
And it has nothing to do with what we are talking about. You are trying to use these hypothetical scenarios to back up the faulty stop watch claim, but none of them show why the faulty stop watch, isn't faulty, in fact non of them even make reference to the faulty stop watch.

The faulty stop watch being, how the speed it takes us to communicate in our world.

The point of my argument is demonstrate why this faulty stop watch cannot be applied ! Showing how Sentry could possibly make it to the sun, faster than light doesn't, show why we should believe he could move faster than light in the first place. The only argument that supports this claim, is the faulty stopwatch presupposition. Which by the standards of logic should be rejected.

Jeez son
I don't know what a Faulty Stop Watch is.
All I can do is give you a bunch of creative scenarios as to how he can actually get to the Sun without speed. Or with speed. Or even how he can speak in space.
I used particle teleportation, light manipulation. Everything I have written is precisely what we are talking about!

Originally posted by DarkOdin
😆 COme on pick a MOD i will bring them in unless there is some narration or other hint that Sentry was talking out of the norm the feat stands. Hulk talks in space Thor Sliver surfer, Superman Wonderwomen etc there is nothing to support that Sentry talking of speach is any different many of the basic "real world" fondamentals carry over to comics some don't talking in space in not learn to live with it

The mods are wrong though ... all have been adopting this fallacy since the forum existed. Juts because credulity is popular doesn't make it right. Did u know that most people used to believe the world was flat ?

You remind me of Hunter S Thompson on a bender.

Originally posted by the ninjak
Jeez son
I don't know what a Faulty Stop Watch is.
All I can do is give you a bunch of creative scenarios as to how he can actually get to the Sun without speed. Or with speed. Or even how he can speak in space.
I used particle teleportation, light manipulation. Everything I have written is precisely what we are talking about!

I've explained what the faulty stop watch is twice.

Here I go again. Its an analogy. People use stop watches to measure time. In this circumstance the time it takes for people to communicate in the real world is representing the stop watch being used. Its a faulty stop watch, because it uses the time it takes to communicate in the real world, and applies it to the Marvel world. This is wrong, for two reasons. One its not OUR world. 2.) They necessarily use a different form of communication, because it disobeys the rules of our world. 3.) There is no way of knowing how communication works in the marvel world, because we don't have access to it.

But your argument uses the way communication works in our world to support how fast Sentry can move in the marvel world. So its acting as a stop watch, but its not an accurate stop watch, so its faulty.

To use another analogy. Imagine if the English had a stop watch that measured time using a different method i.e. it it counts 100 seconds in a minute. OK if we used this stop watch to measure how fast Ussain Bolt can the run the 100 meters, it would take nearly twice as long (by this stopwatches standards). (There are nearly two english seconds to every standard second) If a third party came along who didn't know that the stop watches were different, they would FALSELY conclude that Ussain Bolt was traveling a lot quicker the first time. This however is wrong.

This is analogous to what u and everyone else has been doing on here . You don't know how the stop watch (The time it takes to communicate in space in the Marvel world) works in the Marvel universe. You are just using OUR version, which gives u a false conclusion (Like the false conclusion in the scenario I just made).

Originally posted by Cartesian Doubt
The mods are wrong though ... all have been adopting this fallacy since the forum existed. Juts because credulity is popular doesn't make it right. Did u know that most people used to believe the world was flat ?

"by the standards of deductive Logic that apply to everything. "

And where did you get these standards of deductive logic let me think The real world

But wait you said

"Logic and facts about the world aren't the same thing."

They you say this work of art

"The point is HE shouldn't have been able to finish his sentence cos he was in space .... so his method of talking is non standard, so prescribing standard speed-times to it, is WRONG !!!!!!!!! "

Know this is base on the real world but again you say

"Logic and facts about the world aren't the same thing."

In comics Reed and others have stated what the speed of light is and it is the same as our real world

In comics world time is based on idea as the real world along with speech .

In comics character have been talking in space for 40 years

AMy point is surpported all in the comics and you appling your BS logic to us but you don't even follow it. 🙄

Cartesian I'm not going to quote you but who gives a crap about how long it take to say a sentence in our world compared to how long it takes in the Marvel Universe!!!!!
If this has been your argument the whole time then consider it mute.
Lets move on please.
Can someone back me up.

What is the actual problem here?

and how are the mods "wrong" too?

The conclusion feels solid to me, even without any reference to physical facts of the real world: Marvel sun is 8 light minutes away from marvel earth; speed of light in marvel universe is 300.000 km/s; it is reasonable to assume he speaks at a normal pace compared to other marvel characters and, based on the overall history of marvel comics regardless of the speed people speak in the real world, it is reasonable to assume they take a few seconds to say a phrase like that. Unless you can show that he took more than 8 minutes to utter his sentence you can't invalidate the assumption.