Originally posted by -Pr-
What is the actual problem here?and how are the mods "wrong" too?
Basiclly
We base Sentry to have a FTL speed feat when he was in mid sentence and flied to the sun.
We gets this because the Speed of light it take 8 mins and 20 secs for light to get to the sun ands snetry did it while saying 1 sentence.
Someone is stating that we can't use this as a feat because it is base on the "real world" and Sentry "must of not been talking noramlly b/c he is space.
Originally posted by 753
The conclusion feels solid to me, even without any reference to physical facts of the real world: Marvel sun is 8 light minutes away from marvel earth; speed of light in marvel universe is 300.000 km/s; it is reasonable to assume he speaks at a normal pace compared to other marvel characters and, based on the overall history of marvel comics regardless of the speed people speak in the real world, it is reasonable to assume they take a few seconds to say a phrase like that. Unless you can show that he took more than 8 minutes to utter his sentence you can't invalidate the assumption.
This is all based on assumptions that are wrong ... And that's what my point is !!!!!!!!!!
The assumptions are based on real world rules that cannot apply to Marvel !!!!!!!!!
Originally posted by DarkOdin
BasicllyWe base Sentry to have a FTL speed feat when he was in mid sentence and flied to the sun.
We gets this because the Speed of light it take 8 mins and 20 secs for light to get to the sun ands snetry did it while saying 1 sentence.
Someone is stating that we can't use this as a feat because it is base on the "real world" and Sentry "must of not been talking noramlly b/c he is space.
can someone post the feat, please?
Originally posted by Cartesian Doubt
This is all based on assumptions that are wrong ... And that's what my point is !!!!!!!!!!The assumptions are based on real world rules that cannot apply to Marvel !!!!!!!!!
But the speed of light and the distance between earth and the sun in marvel universe have been stated on panel. They happen to coincide with the real world.
Originally posted by the ninjak
Plus apparently the time it takes to say a sentence in our world is different to how it will take in the MU 😆 😆 😆
And yet they can talk in space ... So yes its very DIFFERENT.
This is my point, your assumptions are wrong, by the standards of deductive Logic that apply to all possible worlds. If you say they don't then u might as well stop arguing or stop living cos it applies to everything.
And FOR the millionth time Dark Odin i don't mean "real world logic" that is what you call inductive logic. Please don't make me re-iterate this.
I'm Holding the comic in front of me right now!
And sorry to burst everyones bubble but the there are actually 4 sentences that exist between Void and Sentry. And it's all mental....
NO VOCAL CONVERSATION!!!!!!
This changes everything!
I also timed how long it would take to say said sentences and it took up to 30 secs!!! From Earth to Sun.
Originally posted by 753
But the speed of light and the distance between earth and the sun in marvel universe have been stated on panel. They happen to coincide with the real world.
the speed of communication IN SPACE hasn't !!!!!!!!!
And u can't assume its the same as it would be in the real world, becasue speech in space doesn't happen !!!!!!!
At least someone is asking the right questions now, instead of avoiding the issue with weird interpretations of how he could move F.T.L.. Or just superficially repeating the same thing over and over again, with the occasional reference to "real world logic" not applying. When if he actually understood what I was trying to convey, he would understand in that this was my point in the first place, and therefore undermines his own.
I'm not arguing that Sentry cannot move faster than the speed of Light, I'm stating that the way of reasoning this conclusion, with this scenario and parallel examples is FALSE.
Originally posted by the ninjak
I'm Holding the comic in front of me right now!
And sorry to burst everyones bubble but the there are actually 4 sentences that exist between Void and Sentry. And it's all mental....
NO VOCAL CONVERSATION!!!!!!This changes everything!
I also timed how long it would take to say said sentences and it took up to 30 secs!!! From Earth to Sun.
Well ok then ... theres nothing to prevent cognitive communication is space. So we can assume it works in the same way as it does in our world.
But my argument still applies to every other circumstance this reasoning has been used. Its wrong, and it should be once and for all ignored.
Originally posted by Cartesian DoubtOMg you like cover your up your mistakes.
I can I just re-iterate something that I have mentioned about a BILLION times now. U cannot prove something with a contradiction. Any half witt A-Level philosopher can tell u that.Speaking in space is impossible in the real world, so speculating about how it works in a comicbook universe is meaningless. U can't use the well its a comic book so sounds does work in space, arguments and then apply the real world speed of sound, later on to warrant your proposition. IT just doesn't work like that. This is what is reffered to as having your cake and eating it.
It doesn't work like that, your conclusion doesn't follow from your propositions, and its consequently invalid.
This is what started the whole debate.
Which had nothing to do with what was being said.
No one stated that spped of sound in space.
Only that The sentry said one sentence and dumped the void in the sun be that the Sentry said it out of his mouth or in his head it still takes the same amount of time as they had a coversation.
YOU jumped in ranting about the speed of sound and real world logic.
When common sense tells us that it doesn't take 8 mins to say a sentence in the real world or comics 🙄
Originally posted by DarkOdin
OMg you like cover your up your mistakes.This is what started the whole debate.
Which had nothing to do with what was being said.
No one stated that spped of sound in space.
Only that The sentry said one sentence and dumped the void in the sun be that the Sentry said it out of his mouth or in his head it still takes the same amount of time as they had a coversation.
YOU jumped in ranting about the speed of sound and real world logic.
When common sense tells us that it doesn't take 8 mins to say a sentence in the real world or comics 🙄
1.) There is no speed of sound in space - If there was I bet its equivalent to the speed of sound in silence ! (Sarcasm btw)
2.) It had a lot to do wit what was being said if u read my posts properly, instead of just pigeonning the bits you wanted to read.
3.)"Only that The sentry said one sentence and dumped the void in the sun be that the Sentry said it out of his mouth or in his head it still takes the same amount of time as they had a coversation."
You assume this falsely, there is NO way of epistemic-ally knowing this !!!!!!!!. The only argument you can provide to back this is up is false kmc forum testimony ! Which is not going to persuade me. You can get as many kids as u want to tell me that Santa Clause exists, its still not going to convince me.
5.)"When common sense tells us that it doesn't take 8 mins to say a sentence in the real world or comics"
No common sense is not applicable in this circumstance. Common sense can be wrong, and it has been magnificently wrong in the past. For example it was common sense that lead everyone to believe that the world was flat. Similar to the reasoning that lead the status Quo believing the world was flat, the status has used common sense reasoning; and adopted the "faulty stop watch theory". The flat world theory was wrong, and so is your line of reasoning. Common sense is a one of the greatest sources of credulity !
Again, even with no reference to the real world: Isn't it safe to assume that it takes a few seconds for a character to say a phrase like that in marvel earth and that the sentry speaks at a normal pace?
The claim that it is unknowable whether or not thinking os speaking a phrase like that in marvel space takes a few seconds because we can't do it on the real world doesn't preclude using marvel earth's characters' speed of cogniton and speech as basis for analisys. The speed at which the sentry thinks and or moves his mouth and vocal chords to speak - even if no sound came out in space - should not be diminished by being in vacuum. This speed is consistantly portrayed as being at least on par with the other marvel characters, since he engages in conversations with them. Incidently comic history shows us that the speed of normal verbal communication in marvel earth happens to be the same as in the real world and it takes a few seconds for a phrase like that to be thought or spoken. How fast sound travels in the real world or in marvel space or things like that are not relevant here.
SS and other characters like him talk in space all the time, sometimes writers are carefull to make the speech baloons telepathic, but others are not. When the SS and a non superspeedster character (like dr stranger for instance) have a conversation in space, it is safe to assume they are speaking at the pace marvel humans speak and comprehend.
Originally posted by Cartesian Doubt
And it has nothing to do with what we are talking about. You are trying to use these hypothetical scenarios to back up the faulty stop watch claim, but none of them show why the faulty stop watch, isn't faulty, in fact non of them even make reference to the faulty stop watch.The faulty stop watch being, how the speed it takes us to communicate in our world.
The point of my argument is demonstrate why this faulty stop watch cannot be applied ! Showing how Sentry could possibly make it to the sun, faster than light doesn't, show why we should believe he could move faster than light in the first place. The only argument that supports this claim, is the faulty stopwatch presupposition. Which by the standards of logic should be rejected.
Marvel doesn't usually (if at all) apply the theory of relativity so all beings that can fly through space can reach and exceed light speed by newtons laws. All it takes is acceleration and time. That is to say, there is no question whether Sentry can achieve light speed (even if it was never shown), regardless of the faulty arguments you may see here. This is because he can accelerate in space. Thus he can reach light speed at a particular point in time.
The true question is whether he can reach light speed in battle distance. The answer is clearly NO!
Now as far as talking in space, it was explained by a writer a long time ago (forgot which one) that some Super beings can do it by projecting an exotic vibrating energy throughout space which becomes pseudo sound.
Exotic means that the energy is fictional and is not part of the KNOWN laws of physics.
Also, it can be done by sending electromagnetic signals out. But the receiving end must have the power to translate the signal into words.
Humans, or beings with absolute no energy powers, are the only ones who should not be talking in space. It is fair game for anyone else though.