Wonder Woman w/o powers runs the Street Level Gauntlet

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
And like I said in this thread previously, Thor like Wonder Woman has spent a great deal of time fighting as a mortal as well. And all of his showings are on panel (I'm pretty sure they did not reshow all if not most of Diana's past training in a depowered state.). To quote myself:

So as you see, Diana is not the only one who has a history of doing extremely well with her skills even in a depowered state.

Disagreed. Could Diana be in Rogers tier? Sure. As skilled? Nah.

And I don't see how doing well in a depowered state equates that he is top tier when it comes to skill. If Superman were to lose his powers, I am very confident that he would be able to fight very competently as a mortal. That doesn't mean he is as skilled as Wonder Woman is.

We know that WW has her Amazon training, the gifts of Athena, continues to spar regularly, constantly seeks to improve her skills and is skilled in different arts and weapons. That is what is important.

Question for Tide, has the time Diana spent training under I-Ching been restored?

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
And like I said in this thread previously, Thor like Wonder Woman has spent a great deal of time fighting as a mortal as well. And all of his showings are on panel (I'm pretty sure they did not reshow all if not most of Diana's past training in a depowered state.). To quote myself:

So as you see, Diana is not the only one who has a history of doing extremely well with her skills even in a depowered state.

Disagreed. Could Diana be in Rogers tier? Sure. As skilled? Nah.

I am honestly not sure if you are being legit here, or purposely being obtuse (not about your Thor reference -- I am fully aware of his history), but things don't seem to be registering with you, so I am going to take a bow from this thread. I've posted what I feel I have to say/is conveyed in the comics (and btw -- yes, in multiple different flashbacks, Diana's depowered training has been covered. In whole issues/extended story-arcs with her before she left the island? No. But it was made very clear. And the comparison to Thor is a side-step in this: Thor is a high-end fighter, no question, but most reasonable people agree that WW has greater finesse/refined skill than he does. Not in any uber-way, but discernably so. And that is certainly sufficient to make her a match, *skill-wise* for Cap. In a depowered state, with him likely having a physical edge on her, are her odds good? No. Of course not. But if she still has her natural amazonian edge in physical prowess, then the difference may not be as great as it seems. But like I said, Steve is certainly the go-to in this situation, and if the situation arose in a comic, and he were to win, I wouldn't cry foul, by any means.

Originally posted by Sasaraixx
And I don't see how doing well in a depowered state equates that he is top tier when it comes to skill. If Superman were to lose his powers, I am very confident that he would be able to fight very competently as a mortal. That doesn't mean he is as skilled as Wonder Woman is.

We know that WW has her Amazon training, the gifts of Athena, continues to spar regularly, constantly seeks to improve her skills and is skilled in different arts and weapons. That is what is important.

Question for Tide, has the time Diana spent training under I-Ching been restored?

Only in a passing reference during the "year-off" story-arc a few years ago; when she was back as Diana Prince, working at the DMA, there was a monitor behind her showing some footage of her with I-Ching, and Tresser making reference to it. I suppose that is meant to mean that it is a part of the New Earth reality, as well, though obviously with (unspecified) tweeks, temporally speaking, as the late Silver Age/Early Bronze Age stories couldn't conceptually take place on New Earth. But, yeah, it would seem so, more or less...

Originally posted by tideoftime
Only in a passing reference during the "year-off" story-arc a few years ago; when she was back as Diana Prince, working at the DMA, there was a monitor behind her showing some footage of her with I-Ching, and Tresser making reference to it. I suppose that is meant to mean that it is a part of the New Earth reality, as well, though obviously with (unspecified) tweeks, temporally speaking, as the late Silver Age/Early Bronze Age stories couldn't conceptually take place on New Earth. But, yeah, it would seem so, more or less...

Ah, thank you for that. I vaguely remembered that as well, but I couldn't be sure. Honestly, I was a bit confused.

I appreciate the clarification.

Originally posted by Q99
I'd say Wonder Woman and Shiva are roughly on the same level.

Originally posted by -Pr-
the fourth line.

also, would anyone please give me that issue number with shiva?

I don't understand what's provoked the Wonder Woman skill wank as of late.

Yes, she has an impressive resume, but I haven't seen much in the way of actual feats that assures me that she would beat Black Canary or Wildcat, much less Steve Rogers.

Originally posted by Original Smurph
I don't understand what's provoked the Wonder Woman skill wank as of late.

Spring is coming soon. Wank for desireables like Wondy and Orion is bound to increase as blood starts boiling.

Originally posted by Original Smurph
I don't understand what's provoked the Wonder Woman skill wank as of late.

Yes, she has an impressive resume, but I haven't seen much in the way of actual feats that assures me that she would beat Black Canary or Wildcat, much less Steve Rogers.

She has actually fought with Black Canary and Batman in martial arts without using her powers and both are of the opinion that Diana's at least as good if not better than they are, so there's that.

possibly b/c she might still be slightly enhanced not b/c she possess more Combat knowledge then them. if anything i would place her around the DS physical stat lvls and skill.

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
possibly b/c she might still be slightly enhanced not b/c she possess more Combat knowledge then them.

But she probably does possess more combat knowledge than them, and she doesn't win sparring matches against them because she's stronger or anything 🙂 Both go on about her skill.

I think Diana is like Thor in the sense that even stripped of her powers her basic physiology is greater than that of any human. "Depowered" Thor was able to dead-lift half a ton was he not? Amazons always seem like that, stronger and faster than normal humans (and more resilient).

Originally posted by Q99
But she probably does possess more combat knowledge than them, and she doesn't win sparring matches against them because she's stronger or anything 🙂 Both go on about her skill.

i watch you to think very hard and use logic building techniques...

she is an amazon correct?

what would she be trained in with h2h and weapons training?

now think very hard and tell me how that would apply and translate to modern warfare and combat training for modern military let alone guys that have trained all across the world in various MA?

do you really think she possess more effective skill and knowledge then guys like batman? 🙄

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
i watch you to think very hard and use logic building techniques...

she is an amazon correct?

what would she be trained in with h2h and weapons training?

now think very hard and tell me how that would apply and translate to modern warfare and combat training for modern military let alone guys that have trained all across the world in various MA?

do you really think she possess more effective skill and knowledge then guys like batman? 🙄

(Jumping back in due to detecting where your flaw in perception is)

You are aware that the Amazons of Themiscyra are not all Greek; many of them are reincarnations of various women/cultures from around the world (which is why a number of them have various ethnic appearances). Also, almost all of them have cross-trained with their sister tribe, the Bana Mighdall, who have been in contact with the broader world, cultivating not only the weapons and war-skills of various peoples on earth for the past 3,000 years, but also the use of advanced technology from other cultures/worlds?

I mean, you *did* know that, right? You were aware that one of the many reasons why outside interests (including the US Government in the DC Universe) want to... "investigate"... Themiscyra was not only because of the mystical power located there, but also because of the advanced technology and applied war-knowledge the Amazons possess?

It's only been an ongoing storyline for WW for about 20 years now in the comics...

Originally posted by tideoftime
(Jumping back in due to detecting where your flaw in perception is)

You are aware that the Amazons of Themiscyra are not all Greek; many of them are reincarnations of various women/cultures from around the world (which is why a number of them have various ethnic appearances). Also, almost all of them have cross-trained with their sister tribe, the Bana Mighdall, who have been in contact with the broader world, cultivating not only the weapons and war-skills of various peoples on earth for the past 3,000 years, but also the use of advanced technology from other cultures/worlds?

I mean, you *did* know that, right? You were aware that one of the many reasons why outside interests (including the US Government in the DC Universe) want to... "investigate"... Themiscyra was not only because of the mystical power located there, but also because of the advanced technology and applied war-knowledge the Amazons possess?

It's only been an ongoing storyline for WW for about 20 years now in the comics...

Damn, this dude brings the word when it comes to WW lol 👆

i am ware of that. but that doesnt translate to MA skills and knowledge equal to bats.. tell me what art forms has she mastered by name?

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Damn, this dude brings the word when it comes to WW lol 👆

And do you know what the truly f#cked up thing is? Unlike what Quan likes to claim -- I AM NOT EVEN A WW FANBOI!

I just, like, y'know...

...PAY ATTENTION TO WHAT HAPPENS IN THE COMICS...

*******

Forgive my sarcasm. It's just that the anti-WW sentiment around here is just bizarre. I rarely encounter it in other forums like I do here. It's what piqued my curiousity a few months ago when I linked here randomly and there was a strew of anti-WW (and disrepect of Thor) going on. I thought it was funny. Now, I think it's really kinda' sad...

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
i am ware of that. but that doesnt translate to MA skills and knowledge equal to bats.. tell what art forms has she mastered by name?

Dude... seriously...

Your just embarrassing yourself now...

She has greater MA combat-skill than Bruce (that he is relatively close to her skill level is a testament to how good *he* actually is, being a "mere mortal", as he has joked with her before) and she has the insight and skill of the goddesses Artemis and Athena, two of the war/combat goddesses of the Greek Pantheon.

It's called reading.

Try it.

Originally posted by tideoftime
Dude... seriously...

Your just embarrassing yourself now...

She has greater MA combat-skill than Bruce (that he is relatively close to her skill level is a testament to how good *he* actually is, being a "mere mortal", as he has joked with her before) and she has the insight and skill of the goddesses Artemis and Athena, two of the war/combat goddesses of the Greek Pantheon.

It's called reading.

Try it.

okay now ur just being rude and insulting.

my question again went unanswered. i know she is a great fighter but she aside from that she hasnt shown the same lvl of MA knowledge as someone like bruce or shiva regardless of she can beat them. i already said why she would win against them even when depowered. the fact that you tried to substantiate her abilities by using her godly attributes proves my point.

Originally posted by tideoftime
And do you know what the truly f#cked up thing is? Unlike what Quan likes to claim -- I AM NOT EVEN A WW FANBOI!

I just, like, y'know...

...PAY ATTENTION TO WHAT HAPPENS IN THE COMICS...

*******

Forgive my sarcasm. It's just that the anti-WW sentiment around here is just bizarre. I rarely encounter it in other forums like I do here. It's what piqued my curiousity a few months ago when I linked here randomly and there was a strew of anti-WW (and disrepect of Thor) going on. I thought it was funny. Now, I think it's really kinda' sad...

Yeah, several other posters (including myself) have mentioned it before in threads here. WW either gets lowballed at every turn and corner, her gear is either ignored or completely underrated, and her feats and showings are usually dismissed by people debating against her. The counter argument I usually see is that "people overrated Diana", but judging from the responses in a lot of these Vs. threads, for the resounding majority, the people voting for Diana and explaining their reasoning are either at least knowledgeable enough to make an informed decision or, y'know, read her comics.

Thor gets a slightly better rap, but the fact that some posters blatantly ignore his upper or high end showings while at the same time completely blowing his low ones out of the water or warping them to suit their purposes is pretty messed up. His revamped respect thread should dispel the erroneous belief that Thor can't deal with super speedsters and without Mjolnir he's helpless, but people just choose to ignore multiple on panel instances.

It's sad, but we endure. 😆

Question, does WW end up with standard "peak human" stats or Captain America level "peak human" stats? There is a difference after all...