Ganondorf Vs Azeroth

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
Not in the long-term, no. It would be only a matter of time before KJ turned on him.

Yep. I wager around the time he gets summoned and then Ganondorf have imo more immidiate concerns then Azeroth, which is to ensure his own survival.

Originally posted by The Scenario
BT, your hate for The Legend f Zelda seems really unfounded. And your debating style is strange. Instead of attempting to build Azeroth up, you're attempting to break Ganondorf down. could soomebody at least try saying Azeroth is strong instead of saying Ganondorf is weak?

Anyway,

Midna was quite clearly striking with her Trident, and then the castle exploded. Plus, he was attacked by Valoo and came out unharmed. If you want to say the attacks missed, you must prove it. The intention is supposed to be clear, and making the assumption that it is more complicated is a violation of Occam's Razor.

"The simplest explanation is usually the correct one." We see Ganondorf's giant floating head look up and growl. We then see Midna strike downward in the direction of Gannondorfs head. Then the castle explodes.

So based on the above, [sarcasm]obviously Ganondorf dodged the attack, despite being litle more than a head, and then fired a blast from his non existent hands, which destroyed the castle. [/sarcasm] That is a huge leap of logic, and is contrary to every intention the scene is supposed to convey. It is much simpler to assume that the attack connected and destroyed the castle, but Ganondorf survived due to his previously stated invulnerability.

Both are assumptions. The only difference is that one is stupid and overly complicated, and the other fits in the context of the games.

Further, when Link fight Ganon without the Master Sword, he has at least 2 sacred weapons left: the Light Arrows and the Megaton Hammer. Both are able to damage him, but there isn't a canon way he fought Ganon. Besides, Ganon could not be defeated until Zelda held him in place and allowed Link to perform the Coup de Gras with he Master Sword.

You must prove it if you made the claim. Here, the claim is that the Master Sword is not powerful. You should use evidence of the Master Sword failing to do something. You are currently asking to be proven wrong, a violation of the Burden of Proof. Any claim, positive or negative, must be proven with supporting evidence.

There are statements from manuals that explicitly say it can repulse any evil, even that born of misuse of the Triforce. Given that the Triforce can grant wishes, this is powerful. It is stated to destroy evil, which is its primary purpose. Also relatively powerful. It has been shown breaking curses, breaking barriers, and breaking faces. And it reflects magic. It is often the most powerful sword in whatever game it appears in.

You are aware that the Gerudo phase of the game requires Link to sneak past them? Link, in canon, outstealthed a tribe of theives.

You're assuming that things are weak because a child can do them, rather than assuming the child is strong because he can do them. Link is repeatedly stated and proven to be more than a normal child, especially when he succeeds where adults fail. See: Link's uncle killed trying to save Zelda from Aganhim. He was a former Knight of Hyrule, and recieved the same telepathic message Link did. Or Darunia, the Goron Chief, failing to defeat Volvagia.

There is proof: Child Link did the things he did. Adults could not do these things. In what world would this make Link weak?

There's evidence that they are not normal silver. For one, they can kill most enemies in one shot, and were given to Link by a Fairy. In addition, every arrow Link picks up becomes a Silver Arrow. Link recieves them by tossing his bow into a fairy fountain, not by getting actual arrows. He upgraded his bow, not his arrows.

I dont hate Zelda, never played it but I dont like the overhype such as 1000 ton supersonic link. there are people saying Azeroth is strong, thats what Utrigita, miria and Q are here for, they know more about the background lore than I do.

But we dont see him actually getting struck and whats more, the head is not necesserily physical so its not a physical feat like surviving the sword of light from the sages is, she was a fair distance away so its pretty much a spear lunge with a magic weapon but if he can destroy islands with his magic, it may have been his counter attack that demolished his castle OR perhaps his physical form being defeated broke the bond between him and his castle and he did not bother reforming this bond when he chased Link on horseback, we dont actually see it happen though so we cannot say for sure.

But his invulerability may be stated but not shown, by feats hes not invulnerable just endurant, he may not need his hands to cast magic since afterall he did overpower the shadows, so he had to do something. Another form I have seen of the fused shadows is when its long magic arms grab/strike something like they did to elimnate Zant, he may not have been hit physially at all. There are a lot of holes in the logic that he was hit, despite it being a factor we need to consider its still not an actual feat.

1. Thats not how it works, the burdon of proof is on Screamo to prove its strong, I am proven correct by default until proof is shown because until then there is no evidence to suggest it is strong. If the burdon of proof was on me to prove its weak we could say the same about every entity, we could all assume someone is indestructable or can destroy the universe until its proven "wrong". Ofc in truth they would be wrong because there is no feats to suggest they can.

2. Statements, but thats a no limit fallacy. "any evil" The trueforce can grant wishes you mean? breaking curses and barriers is hardly what you would call powerful when your opponent Ganondorf can blow up islands. Sure its prob the most powerful sword in Zelda but saying its powerful in Azeroth is fallacious.

That does not mean they could not stealth him, also tell me this, does Link canonically never sleep? or is it simply assumed because we dont see him do it?

Thats a poor way of thinking because if I assumed the child was strong, I would also have to assume the traps were well made and masterfully crafted. I would also have to assume the child is strong/mentally powerful when apart from the assumption he is based on the quality of the traps he has no feats of such. Yes but link overpowered those characters through items, not his own wit, you usually need an item like the mirror shield, MS etc to reflect/defeat the object of the boss.

Adults could not do what? when did an adult try in LoZ to collect the items assuming they were able to based on the "chosen one" title?

Then perhaps most enemies are like Ganon, weak to silver or the monsters could not survive being pierced by an arrow the same way a human being would not. But the fairy talks of silver arrows, not a special bow, I realise he had to chuck his bow in to get the arrows but still. please continue this argument if you can, your a debator, Screampaste and Moo are not. If you can find proof that I am wrong then that would be refreshing rather than Screampastes statements and trolling.

there are people saying Azeroth is strong, thats what Utrigita, miria and Q are here for, they know more about the background lore than I do.

But we dont see him actually getting struck and whats more, the head is not necesserily physical

There's nothing that says the head isn't physical. Whenever Ganon becomes intangible in TP he splits into those black squares you see when he possesses Zelda.

she was a fair distance away so its pretty much a spear lunge with a magic weapon

it may have been his counter attack that demolished his castle

perhaps his physical form being defeated broke the bond between him and his castle and he did not bother reforming this bond when he chased Link on horseback, we dont actually see it happen though so we cannot say for sure.

1. Thats not how it works, the burdon of proof is on Screamo to prove its strong, I am proven correct by default until proof is shown because until then there is no evidence to suggest it is strong.

Also, the burden of proof is on you, who made the assertion. GJ.

If the burdon of proof was on me to prove its weak we could say the same about every entity, we could all assume someone is indestructable or can destroy the universe until its proven "wrong". Ofc in truth they would be wrong because there is no feats to suggest they can.

The burden of proof is on the one who makes the assertion. You asserted the sword is weak. Because you're the one who stated something without any way to back it up, the burden of proof is on you.

2. Statements, but thats a no limit fallacy. "any evil" The trueforce can grant wishes you mean? breaking curses and barriers is hardly what you would call powerful when your opponent Ganondorf can blow up islands. Sure its prob the most powerful sword in Zelda but saying its powerful in Azeroth is fallacious.

Claiming it's weak without proof is fallacious.

That does not mean they could not stealth him, also tell me this, does Link canonically never sleep?

He does sleep, and he starts three games sleeping. OoT, aLttP, and WW. Apparently he can run off of very little sleep, though, because we see him go for days in MM without faltering. (He canonicly does not sleep for a bare minimum of three days, and it's more than likely going back in time doesn't make him any less tired.)

The fact he sleeps won't help them.

Thats a poor way of thinking because if I assumed the child was strong, I would also have to assume the traps were well made and masterfully crafted. I would also have to assume the child is strong/mentally powerful when apart from the assumption he is based on the quality of the traps he has no feats of such. Yes but link overpowered those characters through items, not his own wit, you usually need an item like the mirror shield, MS etc to reflect/defeat the object of the boss.

Adults could not do what? when did an adult try in LoZ to collect the items assuming they were able to based on the "chosen one" title?

Then perhaps most enemies are like Ganon, weak to silver or the monsters could not survive being pierced by an arrow the same way a human being would not. But the fairy talks of silver arrows, not a special bow, I realise he had to chuck his bow in to get the arrows but still. please continue this argument if you can, your a debator, Screampaste and Moo are not. If you can find proof that I am wrong then that would be refreshing rather than Screampastes statements and trolling.

The silver arrows are the light arrows. G.J.
link-rape

Originally posted by Burning thought
miria

Flattered, but no

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
And everyone here knows more about Zelda than you do, too. That doesn't stop you from trying to debate it.
link-rape

Looks like you made an assertion, and need to back it up. But you can't.

There's nothing that says the head isn't physical. Whenever Ganon becomes intangible in TP he splits into those black squares you see when he possesses Zelda.

We see the spear coming right down at him, and the spear in question is just the manifested power of the fused shadows.
The intention of the cutscene is clearly that Midna busts the castle.

Lolwut? What bond to the castle? He wasn't bound to the castle anymore than I'm bound to my chair.

Actually there is, but you consistently ignore it.

Also, the burden of proof is on you, who made the assertion. GJ.

Strawman fallacy.

The burden of proof is on the one who makes the assertion. You asserted the sword is weak. Because you're the one who stated something without any way to back it up, the burden of proof is on you.

The sword can reflect that island busting power you mentioned.
link-rape
It's the fail safe in place for the triforce itself, and has countered it's power.

Claiming it's weak without proof is fallacious.
Actually it does, because he's just plain better. Also, they'd never achieve anything, this is like claiming your run of the mill theif could "stealth" Wolverine.

He does sleep, and he starts three games sleeping. OoT, aLttP, and WW. Apparently he can run off of very little sleep, though, because we see him go for days in MM without faltering. (He canonicly does not sleep for a bare minimum of three days, and it's more than likely going back in time doesn't make him any less tired.)

The fact he sleeps won't help them.

How about the fact that even the super-human Gorons are helpless against Volvagia, who Link beats with a freakin' hammer.
Or that this "child" can stop an entity which can pull the moon out of the sky and crash it into the earth?
How about that time when this "child" cleared the tower of gods?
Hell, how about all those times he's casually walked into active volcanoes full of hostile monsters that call such an environment comfortable, and slaughters them, takes their shit, and leaves? I dare you to make a Gohma v.s. Kain thread.

No one in Zelda's ever managed to do the things Link does, despite their efforts.
Darunia, cannot stand up to Volvagia or the fire temple.
Link's uncle, cannot stop to Agihnim.
The soldiers/knights of Hyrule, cannot fight Zant and his shadow beasts.

Please prove silver > divine power.

The silver arrows are the light arrows. G.J.
link-rape

Thats not true, I am interested in the canon understand? not the fanon...if I wanted to know about the fanon of LoZ I would ask you.

What that hes not struck? lol, your kidding right? you somehow think I have to prove someone was not struck when its not shown him being struck? 🙄 learn to debate, then come back.

What so hes a floating disembodied head with his physical corpse sitting crushed on the ground?

No I am sorry, the intension of the cutscene is that Ganon was>fused shadows, the castle itself collapsing is an unknown, tbh its not even important.

Thats not true neither is your next point, you need to prove its strong. There is no evidence it is.

Claiming its weak when I have no proof its strong is the right thing to do in KMC debates. But anyway nice red herring.

Wolverine is more powerful by far than link in every category, Gerudo's could have just killed link in his sleep in that case, quite easily.

maybe because the Gorons are fairly weak, I mean they cannot lift Links weight when he has nothing but lumps of iron on his feet, another thing could be that their slow and dont have said hammer? The Hero of the Gorons when he had the hammer beat the Dragon btw so your wrong 🙄

All these statements do not negate the fact Link is a child, if he has a hellava lot of PIS or toonforce helping him then fine but at the end of the day, hes still a kid and he does not get pis or toonforce in threads. Also your bringing up events where the creatures in question all have major weaknesses (often the very item he gets in their area is their weakness).

Did all these characters have all the items Link has when he faces them? no.....nor the allies and help Link gets, Midna, fairies and other knowledge.

Well first your going to have to prove a statement/title=power/feats.....but the proof is obvious, piecie of silver can beat trueforce Ganon, light arrows beat Ganon with only the triforce of power. No comparison there which ones more powerful.

Nah, its only assumed. No facts that say they were changed, technically they look different, act different, are used differently, against a different scale of enemy etc etc

What that hes not struck? lol, your kidding right? you somehow think I have to prove someone was not struck when its not shown him being struck?

What so hes a floating disembodied head with his physical corpse sitting crushed on the ground?

No I am sorry, the intension of the cutscene is that Ganon was>fused shadows,

Thats not true neither is your next point, you need to prove its strong. There is no evidence it is.

Claiming its weak when I have no proof its strong is the right thing to do in KMC debates.

Wolverine is more powerful by far than link in every category, Gerudo's could have just killed link in his sleep in that case, quite easily.

maybe because the Gorons are fairly weak, I mean they cannot lift Links weight when he has nothing but lumps of iron on his feet,

All these statements do not negate the fact Link is a child, if he has a hellava lot of PIS or toonforce helping him then fine but at the end of the day, hes still a kid and he does not get pis or toonforce in threads.

Did all these characters have all the items Link has when he faces them? no.....nor the allies and help Link gets, Midna, fairies and other knowledge.

Well first your going to have to prove a statement/title=power/feats.....but the proof is obvious, piecie of silver can beat trueforce Ganon, light arrows beat Ganon with only the triforce of power. No comparison there which ones more powerful.

Light arrows = silver arrows.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
He was struck. The camera cuts to outside the castle so we can witness it's destruction.

His body wasn't on the ground, he'd formed into the head.

Exactly. Ganon is > the fused shadows which hit him so hard the castle busted.

You need to prove your statement, I already proved it's strong. Burden of proof rests on you, who made the assertion.
Sword > Island busting power.

False.

False.
In snowhead temple Goron Link punches a section of the central column of the temple (which is freaking massive.) and despite the rest of the weight on top, knocks the section free, shortenning the pillar, for example. Also, the iron boots weigh a lot more than iron.

Cop out.
I provide proof, you scream toonforce. I accept your concession.
link-rape
Come back when you have an argument.
Actually, most of them do, or more. Hell, the soldiers couldn't fight the shadow beatss with swords and armour, Link could kick their asses as a wolf.

Yes, and I'm sure the shield still has a cross on it. /Eyeroll.

Light arrows = silver arrows.

lie/assumption.

He was still blatantly spiritual.

No, that not even necesserily hit him, he could have hit it first with his magic, Ganons castle has collapsed before under his power.

Youve not proved its strong though, youve proved it can lower barriers and act as a key, thats all.

Assertion: boots of iron weigh more than iron, proof?

Ive had an argument all this time, many of them and youve yet to counter anything. And your one to talk, youve screamed PIS before, as has Neme.

I dont belive this was any normal wolf.

You didnt even counter or try and find any evidence here, your just lazy. I may as well wait for Scenario who seems to know more about the canon of LoZ rather than fanon.

BT is now making assumptions, so I will do the same.

Originally posted by Burning thought
lie/assumption.

He was still blatantly spiritual.

No, that not even necesserily hit him, he could have hit it first with his magic, Ganons castle has collapsed before under his power.

Youve not proved its strong though, youve proved it can lower barriers and act as a key, thats all.

Assertion: boots of iron weigh more than iron, proof?

Ive had an argument all this time, many of them and youve yet to counter anything. And your one to talk, youve screamed PIS before, as has Neme.

I dont belive this was any normal wolf.

You didnt even counter or try and find any evidence here, your just lazy. I may as well wait for Scenario who seems to know more about the [b]canon of LoZ rather than fanon. [/B]

Lol.

If it is so blatantly spiritual, why would Midna have attacked? I hate Midna more than you can possibly imagine, but even I can't see It being stupid enough to attack something It can't harm. You can't cling to a technicality like this when the obvious intention of the cut scene was that Midna struck Ganon. And let's just say for a minute that perhaps Midna did not strike Ganon. This means her spear would have gone through Ganon and struck the castle, causing it to explode. This scenario would still mean that Ganondorf conquered Midna while she was using the power of the Fused Shadows which can bust a castle.

How would this help your argument? It would means Ganon has castle busting power as well.

It deflects Ganon's magic and can even expel curses from Link's body. It's also pinned down Ganon's powers.

I'm still not seeing how this point is important to either of you. Regardless they grant Link the weight necessary for him to do the things he needs to be heavier for.

Lol.

You would be correct.

😆 BT, you've seen it all a thousand times. We can show it to you over and over again, but until you stop ignoring it there won't be any point.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3ZYF-Zmo2E

2:05 to 2:40

Kain is toonforce.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
True. mmm

Med'an Vs Ganondorf mmm

Originally posted by LLLLLink
For an additional twist, there is always the Twilight curse to fall back on. It would pretty much effect everyone exept those individuals with divine protection. But even then, their form would still be altered, just not to a useless extent. This is assuming, of course, that the Twilight affects WoW-verse in the same way as portrayed in TP. I see no reason why it wouldn't work.

Is not Zant needed for that?

Is not Zant needed for that?

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
BT is now making assumptions, so I will do the same.

Lol.

If it is so blatantly spiritual, why would Midna have attacked? I hate Midna more than you can possibly imagine, but even I can't see It being stupid enough to attack something It can't harm. You can't cling to a technicality like this when the obvious intention of the cut scene was that Midna struck Ganon. And let's just say for a minute that perhaps Midna did not strike Ganon. This means her spear would have gone through Ganon and struck the castle, causing it to explode. This scenario would still mean that Ganondorf conquered Midna while she was using the power of the Fused Shadows which can bust a castle.

How would this help your argument? It would means Ganon has castle busting power as well.

It deflects Ganon's magic and can even expel curses from Link's body. It's also pinned down Ganon's powers.

I'm still not seeing how this point is important to either of you. Regardless they grant Link the weight necessary for him to do the things he needs to be heavier for.

Lol.

You would be correct.

😆 BT, you've seen it all a thousand times. We can show it to you over and over again, but until you stop ignoring it there won't be any point.

Because she uses magic. the fused shadows was not just a physical move, it had some magical energy to it by the looks of it and how could she know it would be so ineffective, she was stupid enough at least to attack someone she didnt even harm and was defeated easily by. Or her spear hit nothing but air, its not like Ganons head was right up against his castle or that he didnt defeat her, infact its more likely based on real feats that Ganon demolished his own castle.

It was just another assumption, along with the idea neither busted the castle and it was just collapsing the same way Ganon tried to bring his castle down on Link.

Thats hardly powerful, thats just useful not power. Also all this about "pinned down" Ganons powers but what claims this?

The point argues that the Gorons are not as heavy or as strong and Screampastes math says they are based on the games own logic, not his.

I didnt think it was normal. SP is comparing normal unaltered adults, I think TP (not sure) showed us that even the sages had no powers that could stop Ganons slow escape from his chains and punching one of them, they just panicked, assuming sages>normal adult then its a bit fallacious to compare Link with all the powers, items and protections he gains to normal adults, if they could use all his items then they would also succeed imo.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Because she uses magic. the fused shadows was not just a physical move, it had some magical energy to it by the looks of it and how could she know it would be so ineffective, she was stupid enough at least to attack someone she didnt even harm and was defeated easily by. Or her spear hit nothing but air, its not like Ganons head was right up against his castle or that he didnt defeat her, infact its more likely based on real feats that Ganon demolished his own castle.

It was just another assumption, along with the idea neither busted the castle and it was just collapsing the same way Ganon tried to bring his castle down on Link.

Thats hardly powerful, thats just useful not power. Also all this about "pinned down" Ganons powers but what claims this?

The point argues that the Gorons are not as heavy or as strong and Screampastes math says they are based on the games own logic, not his.

I didnt think it was normal. SP is comparing normal unaltered adults, I think TP (not sure) showed us that even the sages had no powers that could stop Ganons slow escape from his chains and punching one of them, they just panicked, assuming sages>normal adult then its a bit fallacious to compare Link with all the powers, items and protections he gains to normal adults, if they could use all his items then they would also succeed imo.

This is why you need to play the games. You think Midna had a way of knowing Ganon's full power. Even if It did know the full extent of Ganon's power, that wasn't the point. The point was to try and turn Midna into some great and self sacrificing hero, and for thousands of idiots, it worked. You must be slipping now, because it looked like you suggested that Ganon does have the power to bust a castle.

It's just too bad that this assumption doesn't have the obvious intent of a cut scene behind it. Do you realize what you're saying here? "If we didn't see it, it didn't happen, regardless of all outside information."

It is powerful, and that is extremely useful. It is another demonstration of the ability of the Master Sword to protect Link from evil magic. And the Master Sword being the item that was pinning down Ganon's power was a major plot point in Wind Waker. I thought you knew all the main facts?

Except that it does make sense. The boots can easily be that heavy. They were magnetized to the floor against Dangoro. And mind you, that is magnetization powerful enough to stick Link to the ceiling.

The only reason it isn't a normal wolf is because it's Link. Yeah, because alone the Sages can't do shit against the powers of the Triforce. That's usually how it works. And what does it being slow have to do with anything? Hell, the Triforce of Power had just activated at that point. And no, normal adults cannot do what Link can do, as they lack the Triforce of Courage and the general bravery that those chosen for the ToC have. Like Neme said, the moment Link went inside the Deku tree and killed Gohma with a Kokiri Sword and a Slingshot he ceased to be a normal Hylian.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
This is why you need to play the games. You think Midna had a way of knowing Ganon's full power. Even if It did know the full extent of Ganon's power, that wasn't the point. The point was to try and turn Midna into some great and self sacrificing hero, and for thousands of idiots, it worked. You must be slipping now, because it looked like you suggested that Ganon does have the power to bust a castle.

It's just too bad that this assumption doesn't have the obvious intent of a cut scene behind it. Do you realize what you're saying here? "If we didn't see it, it didn't happen, regardless of all outside information."

It is powerful, and that is extremely useful. It is another demonstration of the ability of the Master Sword to protect Link from evil magic. And the Master Sword being the item that was pinning down Ganon's power was a major plot point in Wind Waker. I thought you knew all the main facts?

Except that it does make sense. The boots can easily be that heavy. They were magnetized to the floor against Dangoro. And mind you, that is magnetization powerful enough to stick Link to the ceiling.

The only reason it isn't a normal wolf is because it's Link. Yeah, because alone the Sages can't do shit against the powers of the Triforce. That's usually how it works. And what does it being slow have to do with anything? Hell, the Triforce of Power had just activated at that point. And no, normal adults cannot do what Link can do, as they lack the Triforce of Courage and the general bravery that those chosen for the ToC have. Like Neme said, the moment Link went inside the Deku tree and killed Gohma with a Kokiri Sword and a Slingshot he ceased to be a normal Hylian.

No, I was countering your claim that Midna knew he was spiritual/physical or knew her fused shadows could not beat him, I am supposing, assuming he can bust a castle to point out that there could be a lot of assumptions for what happend between him and Midna (not beyond his power, I agree he bust an island).

Lol, your the one assuming the "obvious intent" I could say exactly the same, I dont think the intent was to somehow show that Midna apprently has castle busting power at all, infact apart from ganon destroying the fused shadows so easily, everything about the castle collapsing was just background insignificant that your trying to make into an imrpessive feat (its not even a feat, we dont know what happened to the castle for fact hence its never going ot be a feat).

I know a lot of facts, not all and whats important is that is this a fact or an assumption? like the "Ganon hit by midna" is apprently a fact to you, is not to the game.

Edit: unless your refering to the fact the MS was a seal on a lot of his powers and link released them when he pulled the sword from the plinth or w/e its stuck in? because thats just not a power of the sword, that was the "key" functionality I was pointing out earlier, in the right locks it can keep power closed up by when Links wielding it, its just a sword with some enhancements.

So? Links not that heavy, assuming the magnet was strong enough to hold some iron and not that much of it too then its not that impressive.

Ok so your saying bravery puts him above adults, thats the only thing you can come up with? normal hylians by the sounds of it dont have many weapons or armour, certainly not enhanced ones likeLink seems to get his hands on, give a well trained adult in Hyrule everything Link has and Link would just be a child, the new hero of hyrule would be an adult nad probably finish it far quicker.

ganon is powerful and smart, but there are people more powerful and smarter in azeroth imo. one of which is deathwing....so unless he teams up with deathwing he has no chance imo

Originally posted by Burning thought
No, I was countering your claim that Midna knew he was spiritual/physical or knew her fused shadows could not beat him, I am supposing, [b]assuming he can bust a castle to point out that there could be a lot of assumptions for what happend between him and Midna (not beyond his power, I agree he bust an island).

Lol, your the one assuming the "obvious intent" I could say exactly the same, I dont think the intent was to somehow show that Midna apprently has castle busting power at all, infact apart from ganon destroying the fused shadows so easily, everything about the castle collapsing was just background insignificant that your trying to make into an imrpessive feat (its not even a feat, we dont know what happened to the castle for fact hence its never going ot be a feat).

I know a lot of facts, not all and whats important is that is this a fact or an assumption? like the "Ganon hit by midna" is apprently a fact to you, is not to the game.

Edit: unless your refering to the fact the MS was a seal on a lot of his powers and link released them when he pulled the sword from the plinth or w/e its stuck in? because thats just not a power of the sword, that was the "key" functionality I was pointing out earlier, in the right locks it can keep power closed up by when Links wielding it, its just a sword with some enhancements.

So? Links not that heavy, assuming the magnet was strong enough to hold some iron and not that much of it too then its not that impressive.

Ok so your saying bravery puts him above adults, thats the only thing you can come up with? normal hylians by the sounds of it dont have many weapons or armour, certainly not enhanced ones likeLink seems to get his hands on, give a well trained adult in Hyrule everything Link has and Link would just be a child, the new hero of hyrule would be an adult nad probably finish it far quicker. [/B]

So you agree that Ganon has busted an island. So why is the Master Sword weak? It reflects his magic.

That was not the obvious intent. The obvious intent was that Midna struck Ganon, the castle busting power of said strike is a side fact. It emphasizes the power of the Fused Shadows, and through that, the power of Ganondorf to withstand such an attack and defeat it's source.

How is it not a fact to the game? It happened. And no, the MS pinning down his power is a major plot point. It was actually stated by Ganondorf when you go back to him with the MS to try and defeat him. I fail to see how that's a "key" functionality on the MS. It didn't lock his power away, it pinned it down.

It's actually very impressive. Do you know how strong a magnet has to be to hold someone to the ceiling against the force of gravity? This isn't like some wimpy little refrigerator magnet holding an "A" school work assignment up so the whole family can see and be proud of you, this held a person to the ceiling.

No, I'm saying that the Triforce of Courage puts him above normal adults. As well as his intelligence and bravery. Far above normal adults.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
So you agree that Ganon has busted an island. So why is the Master Sword weak? It reflects his magic.

That was not the obvious intent. The obvious intent was that Midna struck Ganon, the castle busting power of said strike is a side fact. It emphasizes the power of the Fused Shadows, and through that, the power of Ganondorf to withstand such an attack and defeat it's source.

How is it not a fact to the game? It happened. And no, the MS pinning down his power is a major plot point. It was actually stated by Ganondorf when you go back to him with the MS to try and defeat him. I fail to see how that's a "key" functionality on the MS. It didn't lock his power away, it pinned it down.

It's actually very impressive. Do you know how strong a magnet has to be to hold someone to the ceiling against the force of gravity? This isn't like some wimpy little refrigerator magnet holding an "A" school work assignment up so the whole family can see and be proud of you, this held a person to the ceiling.

No, I'm saying that the Triforce of Courage puts him above normal adults. As well as his intelligence and bravery. Far above normal adults.

kain can take souls with his magic, revive fallen entities, drain blood and blast them to piecies but that does not mean he uses all his power at once, theres nothing to suggest Ganon can use full powered island busting attacks with every spell.

No I disagree, the obvious intent was that Ganon>Midna, theres nothing to suggest she even got a hit in.

Pinned it down while stuck in a plinth, pretty weak feat for the sword when it has to be in its plinth to do it, and as soon as its out, Ganon regained power. Just another "key" feat, Useless in combat situation.

Thats not impressive also this is a red herring, how is the fact their magnetic boots have any baring on the fact their just lumps of iron on his feet?

The triforce of courage protects him but what it actually gives him is ambiguous apart from some protection to various specific things. Its still another item, If an adult was more courageous and gained the triforce then thats another bonus powerup item. The fact adults in his realm are terrified cowards and layabouts who do not even seem to bother searching for artifacts and let a child do it does not say much for Hyrule or for Link tbh.

You are now assuming he will be taking it easy on Link. And that's true, there is nothing to suggest that. But he doesn't use that spell for every attack.

Well you can disagree with me all you want, but you can't disagree with a cut scene.

You agree that it pinned it down. But why is a plinth relevant at all? And how does that help your argument? And no, it is a feat speaking for the power of the Master Sword and what it can handle.

There are two major problems with this:

1) The entirety of Twilight Princess disagrees with you. As does Ganondorf in Ocarina of Time and likely some other situations I can't remember right now.

2) You are still assuming Link is a normal child, and that any adult could do what he did. That isn't true.

The point of the scene was to show that not even the power of the Fused Shadows (a fraction of which killed Zant, BTW) could manage to stop, or even harm, Ganondorf. Zant < Midna < Ganondorf. Even if it was not shown, it is clear that Ganondorf defeated Midna in her Fused Shadow form and destroyed them. And the castle still exploded with him in it.

As for the Master Sword, it is not actually part of this battle. Nor is Link.

We have Ganondorf, this magic mirror, and whatever resources he can gather in 10 years.

Originally posted by Burning thought
1. Link without MS or light arrows, hell even with them hes technically weaker. he was a respected adviser with the ear of the king, and as Scenario said, he could control the army. hordes of daft monsters who prob shove themselves into a fight, if these Gerudo are skilled thieves a few of them shield be able to stealth him.

2. When has Ganondorf been wounded by any weapon other than the MS? the only other one that I have seen is the light sword the sages used and that pierced through him. Paladins have a vast amount of holy powers, armour, and weaponry as well as training>>>Link vs Ganon. Names and titles lol....not sure I have seen a cutscene of the arrows one hitting something. Safeguard it with poor defences, with all his powers you would have thought he can do better than a few weak monsters that a child can beat.

3. Link has no reason to be any more wise than any child, or skilled for that matter, the fact he surpasses it is just as likely a reason for them being weak, more so than him being strong since apart from all his items hes not had any special powers granted him.

4. been covered.

1. Certainly if it meant I cannot be stopped if he cannot get said item, get to said NPC to be told about another secret etc etc, without the light/silver arrows Link is hopeless, without the MS hes hopeless, without all the sages, Zelda, and the knowledge he gains from his various side kicks he would not have got as far. "numerous" probably meaning a few in each room?

He killed a guy so hes not a child? physically and mentally hes shown to be a child, unless you have legit cinematics to prove he is somehow a genius and is innately physically powerful.

2. Your assuming the Moblin is as strong as it looks yet you take no time is wondering if Link is actually as weak as he looks and the Moblin is the one who is actually weaker than he looks. Your argument is pretty much "link is small but powerful" but the Moblin is big, therefore a normal child could not beat it. From canon, we know Links not that much more (if not less so) intelligent or strong than a child.

3. I do know this, that does not mean the traps are advanced or the monsters are powerful. Your proof is apprently just the opposite of my proof, my proof is based on facts however not assumption. Links a child, fact, the puzzles are beaten therefore the puzzles and monsters are pathetic. Then you have to throw in the opposite only yours is an assumption, your assuming Link is somehow superhuman and mentally masterful because he can do them.

4. pff not powerful enough, their just pathetic and do not finish the job, Zant for example, Agahim (possessed by Ganon no less) and all these beasts Ganon unleashes. You know how serious the LK would be taken if a child defeated all his minions and reached him in Icecrown? not at all, the armies of the Horde and alliance would have laughed about him, which is what they will prob do when they find Ganon getting beaten by the local children wherever he decides to setup.

"Among the only weapons", based on? a few fallible statements from entities who have tried everything? (I doubt it). These items you realise are fairly featless? thats like me saying a Warcraft level 1 character can beat Ganon because they can get magic items and armour from the beginning of the game 😛

2. While possessing the ToP? The Light Arrows. Nothing else works. When the Sword of the Sages pierced him, he did not have the Triforce of Power. You name what they have... And yet they don't all go around single-handedly besting island busting, city freezing, worldwide storm-causing wizards, do they? They can't all lift 1,000 ton pillars, can they? They cannot stop an 800 ton living rock and throw it, can they? They cannot with a single arrow disintegrate ANY enemy other than the one whom they were created to defeat, can they? Link>>>>>>>Random pally. Not everything has to be seen in a cutscene. Light Arrows are made to destroy evil, and in-game this has the effect of utterly annihilating them. Denying that feat would be like denying Kratos his QTEs or denying Kain/Raziel's block pushing feats. Being gameplay does not change what they do. You're outright denying evidence now, are you implying that any random child, or even an adult, could do what Link did? If so, kindly go **** yourself my good sir, being a child does not mean a thing. Like I said, I can name children in fiction younger than Link who could quell the threat of the Scourge within moments, Link being a child means absolutely nothing. Admit defeat and stop grasping onto this straw.

3. A normal child cannot push a solid stone block four times my size (I am not very small). That what you wanted? Evidence of Link being more than a normal child? No evidence he is more intelligent than a normal child? Well let's see... He is able to skillfully use any weapon upon immediately picking it up. But every child can do that, right? He can go into dungeons and solve numerous puzzles to get to the end, and then kill the main boss of the dungeon, usually some giant monster. But... Every child can do that, right?

4. You have neither the knowledge nor the intelligence to cover any point I have made. Don't lie.

1. Oddly enough he does guard the Light Arrows in WW... And Link fights through his forces and gets them anyway. As for the Master Sword, well, he did have guards in place to guard it in WW... Yet the MS being stoned managed to freeze his minions in time. The Sages? Holy shitballs and onions, in OoT he has overrun the Temples containing all the Sages (Except the Temple of Light, which was located in another dimension via the Temple of Time, not really easily accessible or well-known) with monsters, traps, and various hazards. He nearly committed genocide on all the Gorons in Death Mountain in order to guard the Fire Temple and brought an ancient dragon back to life, he released the spirit Bongo Bongo to guard the Shadow Temple, he enslaved Nabooru, a mutinous Gerudo, and had her turned into an Iron Knuckle to personally guard the Spirit Temple along with Twinrova (Not even counting the natural safeguards the desert puts in place), he overran the entirety of Kokiri Forest with monsters and created a phantom of himself to guard the Forest Temple, and he froze over Zora's Domain, drained Lake Hylia, and created Morpha to guard the Water Temple. In every temple he has cut the Sage off from outside contact and filled it with monsters. This is why you should play the ****ing games before making stupid claims like this. A few in each room? Not every room is small first of all. How many are in each room varies, and they always respawn, in that enemies never run out.

He can, at the age of 11 or 12, push solid stone blocks across the floor that are considerably larger than I am. I already proved Link is not a normal child, his accomplishments speak for themselves.

2. Well let's see. Moblins are larger than a normal human, and wield huge spears with incredible ease, a feat few, if any normal humans could do. In OoT, one can cause quakes by hitting the ground with a club. But... We must assume they are weaker than a normal child? I'm not even annoyed by your points now, this is just funny. Wait... So now you are going to assume Link is physically weaker and less intelligent than a normal child? Your feeble attempts at grasping for some sort of foothold in this argument do not even warrant a serious response anymore.

3. Um, yeah. Kinda like how when I see Superman lift a building I assume it is because Superman is really strong, not that the building is really light. That is essentially the logic you are using. Link can push blocks, as a child, that are much larger than me, so he is physically strong. Link is able to skillfully wield any item upon pick-up and walks into dungeons braving monsters, and solving numerous puzzles. Therefore he is mentally strong. Your sad attempt at discrediting Link convinces no one but yourself.

4. Zant would make a Paladin his *****. Zant would make Thrall, the leader of the horde, his ass slave. Aghanim started plagues and droughts and quelled them with ease. Now you're obviously trolling. Oh, and why would they be laughing? Considering Link would make Thrall his little ass ***** any day of the week. And once again, I can name children that would end the threat of the Scourge in moments.

Lol. So... Statements from ancient spirits who are nearly as old as the artifacts themselves, or in at least one case, a being who can bestow and create said item (Light Arrows)? It is said numerous times, and it has been shown that only the Master Sword or Light Arrows can harm Ganon. Now I could buy that a sufficiently powerful sacred weapon from another verse would harm him, but no random shitpaste Paladin can call himself Link's equal.