Ganondorf Vs Azeroth

Ohai.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Not really, I am just [b]not assuming every one of his magical attacks are island busting like you are. Whether he takes it easy on link or whether his island buster is a slow attack thats not viable in real combat I dont know, neither do you. We can only assume but tbh, apart from the power whatever he did to blow up the islands is featless, speed, cast time, gesture or spoken word etc.

Well your opinion is on the cutscene, the cutscene itself does not tell you what its intent is I am afraid, and we dont see him get hit, therefore no feat no matter how hard you try.

The plinth is relevant because when the MS was pulled out Ganon said he gained his power again, its just a locking mechanism. Its useless in combat.

Who are you say that isnt true? its never happened and Link is a normal child based on canon, ignoring Screampastes fanon math and the assumption everything in LoZ is 100% physically thought out by all the developers and is made to work with physics then Link by the actual canon is never even implied to be physically superior to an adult. Adults do not even try the things he does, not with all the items he is lucky enough to get his hands on. [/B]

Ganon has island busting power. Ganon =/= Sephiroth. Ganon will not be taking it easy on Link.

But it does. As said before, multiple times, the last thing we see is Midna strike at Ganon, and him growl. Then the camera goes to the castle blowing up. The most logical explanation is that Midna struck Ganon and the castle exploded.

Now this is actually very lolzy, because if the Master Sword is merely a key, then wtf is the item that truly kept Ganon's power from him? It only leaves two possibilities, the plinth or the room. Assuming the Master Sword is truly nothing more than a key, the plinth would be the lock. This leaves the room. Now then, I hope everyone who read this was sitting down, because apparently that specific room in Wind Waker is the single most powerful magical barrier in the game.

I used to regard myself as a rather normal calf, but I never had the Triforce of Courage, so I must not have been normal. I couldn't kill Gohma with a sword and a slingshot until I was sixteen, either. 😬 I wouldn't actually be surprised if everything we've posted on Link before was thought of. Supposedly there is a lot of stuff in OoT that they left out of the regular game that is now only accessible through hacking. Well, in Ocarina of Time Link is technically the only one who can do it, as he and Zelda are the only ones who knew of Ganon's evil plan. And in TP, adults actually do attempt to do what Link does. Right after the village brats are kidnapped, Rusl goes out and tries to look for them. He fails.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Ohai.

Ganon has island busting power. Ganon =/= Sephiroth. Ganon will not be taking it easy on Link.

But it does. As said before, multiple times, the last thing we see is Midna strike at Ganon, and him growl. Then the camera goes to the castle blowing up. The most logical explanation is that Midna struck Ganon and the castle exploded.

Now this is actually very lolzy, because if the Master Sword is merely a key, then wtf is the item that truly kept Ganon's power from him? It only leaves two possibilities, the plinth or the room. Assuming the Master Sword is truly nothing more than a key, the plinth would be the lock. This leaves the room. Now then, I hope everyone who read this was sitting down, because apparently that specific room in Wind Waker is the single most powerful magical barrier in the game.

I used to regard myself as a rather normal calf, but I never had the Triforce of Courage, so I must not have been normal. I couldn't kill Gohma with a sword and a slingshot until I was sixteen, either. 😬 I wouldn't actually be surprised if everything we've posted on Link before was thought of. Supposedly there is a lot of stuff in OoT that they left out of the regular game that is now only accessible through hacking. Well, in Ocarina of Time Link is technically the only one who can do it, as he and Zelda are the only ones who knew of Ganon's evil plan. And in TP, adults actually do attempt to do what Link does. Right after the village brats are kidnapped, Rusl goes out and tries to look for them. He fails.

Ganon takes it easy all the time, he does not use half his powers that weve seen him do and he turns into a physical beast a lot of the time when his magic is so much better. Infact it makes me certain that his magic is probably slow, otherwise why would he transform into a physical powerhouse almost every time he fights link?

midna uses a short ranged weapon and is at a distance from Ganon, we dont actually see any connection going on. Or Midna went to strike and Ganon counterattacked, their magic combined taking out the castle, only ofc Midna lost.

It is just a key, the MS seals his power by shoving it in the plinth, take it out and Ganon has his power back. Other than that, its just a sword with some enhancement against Ganon/evil. it does not necesserily have to be powerful, a dam or two can stop an entire river or ocean from pouring into a region. Point being, its not technically "fighting" the power, just blocking it so the power does not work like how in a electric circuit the power thats the electricity can be stopped.

All he does is look for someone? with what, you have to take into context everything people have at their disposal.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Ganon takes it easy all the time, he does not use half his powers that weve seen him do and he turns into a physical beast a lot of the time when his magic is so much better. Infact it makes me certain that his magic is probably slow, otherwise why would he transform into a physical powerhouse almost every time he fights link?

midna uses a short ranged weapon and is at a distance from Ganon, we dont actually see any connection going on. Or Midna went to strike and Ganon counterattacked, their magic combined taking out the castle, only ofc Midna lost.

It is just a key, the MS seals his power by shoving it in the plinth, take it out and Ganon has his power back. Other than that, its just a sword with some enhancement against Ganon/evil. it does not necesserily have to be powerful, a dam or two can stop an entire river or ocean from pouring into a region. Point being, its not technically "fighting" the power, just blocking it so the power does not work like how in a electric circuit the power thats the electricity can be stopped.

All he does is look for someone? with what, you have to take into context everything people have at their disposal.

That would be an assumption. Which you seem to be saying is false when you apply them to Zelda.

None of that makes the obvious intent any less obvious or logical.

But none of that would keep any of the power down and out of the reach of Ganon. And besides, it's stated that the Master Sword did it. And yeah, that's the point. The point was that it's blocking the power, it has to be powerful to do that.

No, he takes his sword and attempts to fight the creatures. He is the best swordsman in Ordon, he taught Link. He gets his ass beat, Link wins.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
That would be an assumption. Which you seem to be saying is false when you apply them to Zelda.

None of that makes the obvious intent any less obvious or logical.

But none of that would keep any of the power down and out of the reach of Ganon. And besides, it's stated that the Master Sword did it. And yeah, that's the point. The point was that it's blocking the power, it has to be powerful to do that.

No, he takes his sword and attempts to fight the creatures. He is the best swordsman in Ordon, he taught Link. He gets his ass beat, Link wins.

Sure its an assumption, we dont have any speed feats on the island destroying magic at all so its not really usable. I am just discussing at the moment, and its not an assumption that he turns into a beast so often, theres no logic in it unless his magic is inferior to his physical strength.

Its not got to be powerful at all, your talking as if the block is a physical barrier. The MS is not even doing it, the MS combined with the plinth created the block. The MS by itself like in a combat situation does nothing.

Show me? an adult with a normal sword? and your admitting he tought link therefore he is mentally>Link considering he was the teacher.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Sure its an assumption, we dont have any speed feats on the island destroying magic at all so its not really usable. I am just discussing at the moment, and its not an assumption that he turns into a beast so often, theres no logic in it unless his magic is inferior to his physical strength.

Its not got to be powerful at all, your talking as if the block is a physical barrier. The MS is not even doing it, the MS combined with the plinth created the block. The MS by itself like in a combat situation does nothing.

Show me? an adult with a normal sword? and your admitting he tought link therefore he is mentally>Link considering he was the teacher.

Well how about when it bounces back magic from Trueforce Ganon. We know there's power behind that.

It has to be some kind of a barrier, otherwise it wouldn't have kept Ganon's power cut off from himself. And there is absolutely nothing that says that plinth is magical.

Ugh. I'll find some video when I'm not lazy. Yes, an adult with a normal sword. And yeah, Rusl would be > Link mentally when it comes to swordplay, but there's no mention of anything else. By the time Link finds the brats he is a far better swordsman than Rusl is.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Well how about when it bounces back magic from Trueforce Ganon. We know there's power behind that.

It has to be some kind of a barrier, otherwise it wouldn't have kept Ganon's power cut off from himself. And there is absolutely nothing that says that plinth is magical.

Ugh. I'll find some video when I'm not lazy. Yes, an adult with a normal sword. And yeah, Rusl would be > Link mentally when it comes to swordplay, but there's no mention of anything else. By the time Link finds the brats he is a far better swordsman than Rusl is.

Hard to tell. With the full power of the goddesses he should have been able to do more than what he did.

Yes but that doesnt mean Ganons power was fighting against the barrier to get back to him or something, you dont need to power to contain something unless its fighting with that power to return. Theres nothing to say this was the case, his power was trapped until Link pulled the sword from the plinth.

How? if Rusl is the one who tought him his skils unless Link learns from someone else.

Unless he had to deal with the Master Sword.

So Ganon knew his power was sealed away, and didn't even bother trying to get it back. There's only one reason he wouldn't bother trying, because the MS is too powerful.

He taught him how to use a sword. So Rusl was > Link in that one area. And he isn't anymore. Link is definitely a better swordsman now.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Unless he had to deal with the Master Sword.

So Ganon knew his power was sealed away, and didn't even bother trying to get it back. There's only one reason he wouldn't bother trying, because the MS is too powerful.

He taught him how to use a sword. So Rusl was > Link in that one area. And he isn't anymore. Link is definitely a better swordsman now.

Which had to be holstered in a plinth just to stop WW triforce of power ganon from having his powers. And you sort of pwned your own point if your saying the power is nullified anyway, therefore reflecting his magic is not much of a feat if its already nullified by the MS. But its not.

Yep, sounds like Ganon to me. lol.....thats a pretty ambigous claim, maybe he didnt know where it was? you keep trying to pull that one on me when I ask why he didnt bother protecting it with everything hes got.

"shrug" hes had more teachings from wiser entities like those hyrule ghosts in TP vids who teach him great spin.

Link at the beginning of TP isn't even aware of his abilities, or who he is. By the end of the game he contains the full essence of the heroes spirit or however the Shade phrased it. Essentially: Link by the end game, is Link. Through out the entire game he's slowly unlocking his own power. Considering by dungeon two, he's tossing Dangoro around like a ragdoll, and making impossible shots with a bow(which he's never even held before), I think that says somethin'.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Which had to be holstered in a plinth just to stop WW triforce of power ganon from having his powers. And you sort of pwned your own point if your saying the power is nullified anyway, therefore reflecting his magic is not much of a feat if its already nullified by the MS. But its not.

Yep, sounds like Ganon to me. lol.....thats a pretty ambigous claim, maybe he didnt know where it was? you keep trying to pull that one on me when I ask why he didnt bother protecting it with everything hes got.

"shrug" hes had more teachings from wiser entities like those hyrule ghosts in TP vids who teach him great spin.

Do you seriously think that is a valid argument? Because essentially what you're saying is that that plinth is > Ganon. And when did I say anything about nullified?

...do you even read posts? I've never said he didn't know where anything was, except for Link in OoT, and by the end of the Forest Temple he knows he's there. But again, he's using Link to bring Zelda out of hiding. He definitely knows where Link is at any given point. When he kidnaps Zelda he isn't even on screen in OoT. He's sitting in his castle being badass and goes "Oh, there's Zelda. That ***** is mine now." But yeah, he definitely knew where the Master Sword is. It froze his minions in time and he knows that Hyrule is underneath the Great Sea.

This helps you because...

So we have a few choices here. You think it took too long for Ganondorf to destroy the island. How did he then destroy Hyrule Castle so quickly? But maybe he didn't destroy Castle! It was Midna, with Ganondorf still inside. The explosion was large enough to strike him even if the attack missed.

So either Ganondorf can pull that much power really quickly (him destroying the castle) or he's durable enough to take an exploding castle (Midna destroying the castle.) Or two attacks canceled each other and destroyed the castle, in which case it's both (able to destroy castle quickly and take the force of exploding castle.) The point is that it doesn't matter who destroyed the castle when Ganondorf was standing point blank when it exploded, proving him to be able to take an exploding castle. And that if it was him that destroyed the castle, there is now evidence he can pull off that destructive feat quickly, coupled with him being able to destroy an island. He could pull island destroying power quickly.

There are several ways to look at this scene; all of them end with a good feat for Ganondorf.

Now, then.

YouTube video

Room full of soldiers absolutely dominated by the same shadow beasts Link slaughters throughout the game. Often before he gets the Master Sword, so he's weilding a normal one. Adult, trained soldiers failing to defeat what Link regularly does.

Edit

Originally posted by Burning thought
1. Where does it say he battled entire armies? a giant arachnid monster would have no knowledge of stealth, poison etc correction it holds a whole ocean, at the same time your admitting Ganon was pretty clueless throughout and did not use his resources.

2. In Canon the light arrows have what feats of physical power? Nothing else based on Links incredible arsenal right? and once again, gameplay. Link cannot do any of those things either unless were talking Screampastes fanon. No, denying their feats would be like denying Links arrows not being especially affective against evil, the actual damage done to an enemy and how much needed to destroy them is based on mechanics, balance etc. You listed a ton of items and now your saying link being a child does not count? what evidence do you have that without these items he is canonically powerful? what makes you think that an adult who is wiser, physically superior and has all of Links items could not do a better if not equel job?

3. Your making the assumption that all these things are heavy, or hard to do, they dont have to be and some of these things are jsut gameplay, those blocks do not relate to Links size and physically link has no reason in canon to be stronger than a child to same way Kratos, dante or a LoK vamp has. And tbh, a lot of characters somehow just "know" how to use items when they find them in games, almost every RPG has wizards/warriors picking up items and being able to use them at some point or FPS allows you to pick up alien weapons and somehow use them right off the bat.

4. I wont lie.

1. So his efforts are incredibly poor then? despite all his power his monsters fall to a child, he doesnt fall so easily, he swats link away in WW yet all his monsters are weak as hell, I never realised they were so weak hence why I made the error of assuming Ganon did not try to protect [b]every item link needs (still not proven btw). I see, respawns are canon? 🙄

Your making the assumption that the things he faces are powerful or intelligent or heavy to hype Link up, I am not making any assumption here, links a child, simple fact, hes not physically or mentally enhanced innately like Dante, Kratos etc are therefore if hes lifting things that "look" heavy then its more likely their not because a child can>them. Also LoZ is inconsistent and shows toonforce, WW a culprit,bouncing gorons another, the pillar feat is another illogical physical manouver that would take a vast number of unlikey assumptions to make correct.

2. Copout, you cant actually prove these characters are strong, you have to assume. And yeh, while these above human size creatures are making "quakes" (prob some sort of gameplay or toonforce) huge Gorons cannot lift Link because hes wearing iron on his feat! 😉 I dont know, I think Link is at least>normal child physically and mentally, just not by far because without any items or the triforce of courage his only element that the game outlines as above a normal child is his courage, I admit a normal child would die of fright or not take any action against some of Links enemies.

3. We know Superman is not a normal man though dont we? 😄 we dont assume he is because of what he can do, we know hes superhuman before he does it. Thats because the people I am trying to convince are blind fans, or belive their assumptions are correct, they also belive all fiction has to make physical and logical sense so when they see a child lift something they think is heavy, it automaticlly requires a logical mathmatical deduction to apprently work. Then we see Gorons bounce on lava, Link toss pillars at ridiculous speeds and distances and Gorons unable to move link because hes wearing iron shoes.

4. possibly, because Zant has shown TK feats that allow him to lift...oh wait, not sure ive seen him lift anything as heavy as a fully armoured adult before. Lol, Thrall would crush link under his hammer, without using his vast shaman powers. Q can tell you more as shes read the books and thrall does more feats in them than in the games.

- its fallible because they have not been tried, these ancients have not used said arrows or anything much else for that matter on Ganon. Why? a Paladin has vastly more holy items, infact i wouldnt be surprsied if Ganon screamed at even hitting the Paladins holy armour, onyl to be impaled on a holy blade like Ashbringer. [/B]

2. "Hi my name is Burning Thought and I am going to deny evidence based on it being during gameplay as a crutch for my poor debating and lack of all-around intelligence. I wish I was as cool, intelligent, and all-around awesome as NemeBro." So... Using your logic, Raziel and Kain have no strength feats and Kratos loses virtually all of his feats? Changing your logic to suit the argument? Bad form BT, and also something you have admitted to doing. He can't? So I guess I just imagined seeing a shattered island in Windwaker, right? I guess I just imagined going to a completely frozen over Zora's Domain in OoT, right? I guess I imagined Ganondorf casting a black storm over the world in Windwaker, right? I guess I must have also imagined Link ever beating Ganondorf, right? I guess I must have imagined Link lifting and chucking that huge slab of granite, right? I guess I must have just imagined Link stopping a huge, iron-wearing, living rock Goron rolling towards Link and being thrown back, right? No, they all happened, they are as undeniable as any feat. Based on mechanics for violence? No, they are "Arrows that purify evil," this has the effect of annihilating them, reverting them to pure light. What items did I list? Because a grown adult could not be catapulted hundreds of feet face first into a wall and survive? Because an adult could not brave through those dungeons and calmly and confidently navigate through it? Because an adult could not move a solid stone block four to five times his size? Link'[s feats are consistently above any mere child. Your assertions that Link, a boy who is chosen by the Gods to vanquish evil, is an average child are ridiculous.

3. ...Wait wut? When a building falls on Superman, am I supposed to assume it was really light? Lemme put it this way. Cars are big, right? Based on your logic, they are not necessarily heavy. Go to the nearest four way intersection and try to stop one. Other than the fact that his feats portray him as. Let me bring up a good example. Biologically, Ryu from Streetfighter has no reason to be stronger than a physically fit human. He lifts multi-ton boulders while training, and can casually dodge bullets with his speed. By your logic, he should not be able to do anything more than what a fit human is capable of, so we should ignore his feats. But we don't. Because that would be stupid. You are making the assumption that ALL of Ganondorf's monsters, and all the threats in Hyrule, are so pathetically weak a normal child could best them. If that is true... Why is Ganon even a threat? Now I know what you are gonna say, something like "NO ONE HAS TRIED," um, dude, there was actually a point in Hyrule's history where Link, a child, was not around to stop Ganon, know what happened? Hyrule easily fell, and despair filled the land, until the Gods themselves had to intervene, and they did so by flooding the entire planet. Yet... Ganon is so weak a threat any child can best him, right? Difference being when a wizard/warrior from an RPG just picks up a weapon and knows how to use it, they are trained warriors and it is not abnormal for them to do so. Link is not properly trained in anything, except swordplay in a few games. As for alien weapons... They are usually just weird looking guns with normal triggers, and if not, they have been seen used before hand usually. Not that there are not other characters like Link who can skillfully wield weapons upon finding them.

4. Lies.

1. Ganondorf was weakened through the first half of WW, he could not dispel the time spell, assuming he would ever be able to, seeing as it was held in place by the Master Sword, the weapon that is the bane to his dark magic. Stop trolling. Is Ares such an incompetent fool to send what he does against Kratos? Nay, are nearly all villains who send what they do to thwart the hero(s) incompetent fools as well? You are debating one of the most numerous fictional concepts there is, the mook. The henchmen of the villain who attack and are bested en masse. Not because the villain is incompetent, because the hero is that damn good. You assume the enemies are weak... Why can't Link just be strong?

Lol. Intelligent? No, the things he faces are not necessarily intelligent. Strong? Able to wield gigantic weapons with utter ease, and the fact that they are very large supports that. Heavy? Darknuts and Iron Knuckles make tremors upon the floor when moving. If I see a stone block five times my size... Should I assume it is light? You want to split hairs, he is a chosen hero by the Gods... He has their blessing. That could be why he is so darn good. But I don't use that as evidence, his feats are. WW has toonforce? Really? Well... Where is it? Is your evidence based on its cartoonish appearance? Cause that does not mean it uses toonforce. The bouncing Goron? Cartoony? Sure. Disproves all of Link's feats? Only in the mind of an infant. The pillar requires assumptions? Really? Well, Link could not lift it at first. Fact. Link aquired the Golden Gauntlets, which make Link physically stronger. Fact. After getting the Golden Gauntlets, he was able to toss the slab. FACT. No assumptions here. Also, you do not even know what toonforce is. Toonforce is when a "toon" directly ignores common laws in reality for the sake of humor. Because, haha, that Link throwing the...*Smirks holding back laughter*...slab of granite, it was...SO ****ING FUNNY HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Wait... No it wasn't. 😐

2. The same way I can reasonably assume that a rhino is strong enough to maul my ass if it felt like it. 😐 The quakes are toonforce? Stop throwing around terms which you do not know the meaning, it makes you appear kind of foolish. They are not meant to be exagerrated for humor, it is a 20 foot monster hitting the ground with a maul. I just proved they are strong but... IT'S TOONFORCE RIGHT!? Normal sized ones cannot, and that is untrue. You clearly have no concept of physics. Link needed the boots to compete and best Goron's because he was too light to do so without, no matter how strong he is, because of how light he is he cannot "sumo" a Goron because they can easily throw Link's light body with a push. The boots do not make Link stronger, just make him heavier. Oh... And those boots are enough to keep Link planted from just about everything. A normal human being could not do that. You could confidently stare down a gigantic scorpion-like monster, and best it?

3. Gorons are not as strong as TP Link because he overpowers them, first of all. Once again, the Ryu example. Biologically human, does superhuman feats. Really any SF character can count. Balrog, a human, killed an elephant with a punch. Toonforce, right? Wait... They believe it all has to make physical sense? You are asserting that because Link is biologically a human child, he CANNOT be stronger or more intelligent than that. Hypocrite.

4. TK feats that allowed him to overpower Midna, Link (An adult), and a giant spirit? Casually? Or maybe I am thinking of his feats like changing into a fifty+ foot giant? Or maybe I am thinking of hisreality warping abilities that allow him to change the battlefield to his advantage on a whim? Or would it be his ability to infect entire regions with Twilight Magic, turning them into bodiless, unaware souls? All these powers Zant received from Ganon btw. Link could tear Thrall in half. Ganondorf would not even recognise him as a signifigant threat.

The Light Spirit can create Light Arrows. Being an elemental of light and all, I would hope it knows what effect such weapons have on Ganon. These beings predate even Ganon, they know their purpose, and their purpose has been consistent throughout the series. Yet... Each of them are wrong... Right? Ganondorf puts his arm through any random Pally's chest. He doesn't need magic. Ashbringer I will admit would probably be able to harm him.

I am your better Burning Thought. I am the gaze into the sun, you can feel me, and you may even try to block out my light, but you can never extinquish it. Block my light all you will, my rays shall burn through your lies and reveal the truth for all to see! That you are both a hater, and are a hypocrite, who shall forever lurk to the shadows in the light that is the lollovelink club!

YouTube video

Just watch the whole thing for demonstration of Zant's powers.

TL;DW: Zant TKs, in order, Link, the Light Spirit, then Midna. He blocks Link's attack while cursing him via crystal to the skull. Then TKs Midna and the Light Spirit again, this time forcing the Light Spirit to attack Midna. This nearly kills Midna. Interestingly, Zant seemed unaffected by both the Light Spirit's attacks (then first attack, then the one on Midna.)

YouTube video

9:20

Examples of Midna's TK. Best vids I felt like finding.

YouTube video

5:20

Compare the size of those bridges compared to Link (bigger than the granite block Link picks up in OoT), and then recall Zant TKing her around like a ragdoll. Zant attributes his new power (the first vid in this post) to his god (read: Ganondorf). He even makes sure to specify he is not using Twili magic, but that of his god (still Ganondorf.)

Just realize that this is before Midna actually begins using the Fused Shadows and gets enough power to kill Zant.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Link could tear Thrall in half. Ganondorf would not even recognise him as a signifigant threat.

Ashbringer I will admit would probably be able to harm him.

I am the gaze into the sun

Alright, Darkwing Duck 😛

I'll just add this first for all to see: No random Paladin has the Ashbringer. Also, it is questionable that any Paladin lesser than Tirion in faith would not be able to use the Ashbringer to its full potentials. Renault Mograine corrupted the Ashbringer in an unholy act, which proves that Ashbringer has different levels of power based on who is wielding it.

As for Thrall, I can not see Link touching him. Other than that, sure. He would destroy Thrall in a direct battle, but Thrall can still send Link far far away every time he return. At least until Jaina come and ridden his headache.

Originally posted by NemeBro
1. An army in its broadest definition is the land based military of a nation. So yes, he battles Ganon's army. Constantly. As in all the time. Once again, where would they stealth him? This isn't Animu ninja land where they can hide in the shadows or use their jutsu to camo themselves. What stealth opportunities did they have? And... A Wall Master is a stealthier opponent than any Gerudo, and they fail against Child Link. Also, I probably should have mentioned this before... But why are you assuming they are stealthy? It is just as likely they are nothing but marauding bandits who pillage, no stealthy shit. As for poison, ditto, and what the hell would they poison? Clueless? Clueless in, not omniscient? In your naive fairytail dreamland someone would have anticipated all Link was... But not realistically. Ganondorf's only real resources were his magic and the Gerudo. He had little knowledge of Link until later in the game, when he deceives Link into opening the Door of Time for him. But OBVIOUSLY he should have known Link would have received a piece of the Triforce along with Zelda and would be able to defeat him, Link, who was not even in the same dimension when Ganondorf received the Triforce of Power. There is no realistic way Ganondorf could have known any of that with what little resources he had, your argument is piss poor.

2. "Hi my name is Burning Thought and I am going to deny evidence based on it being during gameplay as a crutch for my poor debating and lack of all-around intelligence. I wish I was as cool, intelligent, and all-around awesome as NemeBro." So... Using your logic, Raziel and Kain have no strength feats and Kratos loses virtually all of his feats? Changing your logic to suit the argument? Bad form BT, and also something you have admitted to doing. He can't? So I guess I just imagined seeing a shattered island in Windwaker, right? I guess I just imagined going to a completely frozen over Zora's Domain in OoT, right? I guess I imagined Ganondorf casting a black storm over the world in Windwaker, right? I guess I must have also imagined Link ever beating Ganondorf, right? I guess I must have imagined Link lifting and chucking that huge slab of granite, right? I guess I must have just imagined Link stopping a huge, iron-wearing, living rock Goron rolling towards Link and being thrown back, right? No, they all happened, they are as undeniable as any feat. Based on mechanics for violence? No, they are "Arrows that purify evil," this has the effect of annihilating them, reverting them to pure light. What items did I list? Because a grown adult could not be catapulted hundreds of feet face first into a wall and survive? Because an adult could not brave through those dungeons and calmly and confidently navigate through it? Because an adult could not move a solid stone block four to five times his size? Link'[s feats are consistently above any mere child. Your assertions that Link, a boy who is chosen by the Gods to vanquish evil, is an average child are ridiculous.

3. ...Wait wut? When a building falls on Superman, am I supposed to assume it was really light? Lemme put it this way. Cars are big, right? Based on your logic, they are not necessarily heavy. Go to the nearest four way intersection and try to stop one. Other than the fact that his feats portray him as. Let me bring up a good example. Biologically, Ryu from Streetfighter has no reason to be stronger than a physically fit human. He lifts multi-ton boulders while training, and can casually dodge bullets with his speed. By your logic, he should not be able to do anything more than what a fit human is capable of, so we should ignore his feats. But we don't. Because that would be stupid. You are making the assumption that ALL of Ganondorf's monsters, and all the threats in Hyrule, are so pathetically weak a normal child could best them. If that is true... Why is Ganon even a threat? Now I know what you are gonna say, something like "NO ONE HAS TRIED," um, dude, there was actually a point in Hyrule's history where Link, a child, was not around to stop Ganon, know what happened? Hyrule easily fell, and despair filled the land, until the Gods themselves had to intervene, and they did so by flooding the entire planet. Yet... Ganon is so weak a threat any child can best him, right? Difference being when a wizard/warrior from an RPG just picks up a weapon and knows how to use it, they are trained warriors and it is not abnormal for them to do so. Link is not properly trained in anything, except swordplay in a few games. As for alien weapons... They are usually just weird looking guns with normal triggers, and if not, they have been seen used before hand usually. Not that there are not other characters like Link who can skillfully wield weapons upon finding them.

4. Lies.

1. I know "what" an army is, I did not ask that, I asked you to show me Link fighting the whole army. They would stealth him when he is sleeping and the amount of caves or caverns he goes in throughout the games, he would be an easy target for any half decent thief. You claimed the Gerudos are thieves, a thief would have to have some stealth, stealth enough to avoid the sight of a child, also it doesnt matter how good they are, they could have at least tried, if PIS or toonforce defeats them like most of Links enemies then fine. Its a bit of a no brainer, the first person any conquerer should try and find is the one person who has any idea , Links the only witness to the triforce splitting. Your argument is pretty much defending Ganon from what even a petty human criminal would think of, if someone comitted a murder they wouldnt just ignore or forget the only witness(s) at the scene.

2. Thats a bit sad, almost as sad as your overall argument. Yes because all their feats are gameplay and have no canon reason for, their all normal human beings, human children who infact have nothing innately enhanced about them whatsoever. They can all be denied by the fact their illogical nonsense for an old game, an old system and are not be taken seriously. I like how you noticed the things that would aid your argument but not WW Link squeeking like a toon down a castle side, bouncing into the atmosphere from a tiny explosion like Team rocket in the pokemon cartoon (I guess they can take re-entry and have superhuman power now?) or that said Gorons are overpowered and cannot stop Link just because he slaps some iron on his feet. Iron boots>Gorons.

3. In what universe? In zelda I would argue that their weight is irrelevant because toonforce or illogical gameplay or fiction in general can ignore weight so a cute little toon can lift it up like Link can. Mario does it all the time, bugs bunny can survive cruise liners and anvils fall on him. Ryu if I am not mistaken can also shoot energy from his hands and draws on forces that are fictional in his universe. whats it called Chi or something? I am not assuming those things, we see it happen, your the one argueing against me and saying these things happened so saying I am assuming anything is fallacious. Link wasnt around in aLttp prologue and trueforce Ganon was sealed, but still....no adult actually tries to gain the items Link does in his games. Its almost like every adult is bone idle and cowardly.

4. No.....

Originally posted by NemeBro
1. Ganondorf was weakened through the first half of WW, he could not dispel the time spell, assuming he would ever be able to, seeing as it was held in place by the Master Sword, the weapon that is the bane to his dark magic. Stop trolling. Is Ares such an incompetent fool to send what he does against Kratos? Nay, are nearly all villains who send what they do to thwart the hero(s) incompetent fools as well? You are debating one of the most numerous fictional concepts there is, the mook. The henchmen of the villain who attack and are bested en masse. Not because the villain is incompetent, because the hero is that damn good. You assume the enemies are weak... Why can't Link just be strong?

Lol. Intelligent? No, the things he faces are not necessarily intelligent. Strong? Able to wield gigantic weapons with utter ease, and the fact that they are very large supports that. Heavy? Darknuts and Iron Knuckles make tremors upon the floor when moving. If I see a stone block five times my size... Should I assume it is light? You want to split hairs, he is a chosen hero by the Gods... He has their blessing. That could be why he is so darn good. But I don't use that as evidence, his feats are. WW has toonforce? Really? Well... Where is it? Is your evidence based on its cartoonish appearance? Cause that does not mean it uses toonforce. The bouncing Goron? Cartoony? Sure. Disproves all of Link's feats? Only in the mind of an infant. The pillar requires assumptions? Really? Well, Link could not lift it at first. Fact. Link aquired the Golden Gauntlets, which make Link physically stronger. Fact. After getting the Golden Gauntlets, he was able to toss the slab. FACT. No assumptions here. Also, you do not even know what toonforce is. Toonforce is when a "toon" directly ignores common laws in reality for the sake of humor. Because, haha, that Link throwing the...*Smirks holding back laughter*...slab of granite, it was...SO ****ING FUNNY HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Wait... No it wasn't. 😐

2. The same way I can reasonably assume that a rhino is strong enough to maul my ass if it felt like it. 😐 The quakes are toonforce? Stop throwing around terms which you do not know the meaning, it makes you appear kind of foolish. They are not meant to be exagerrated for humor, it is a 20 foot monster hitting the ground with a maul. I just proved they are strong but... IT'S TOONFORCE RIGHT!? Normal sized ones cannot, and that is untrue. You clearly have no concept of physics. Link needed the boots to compete and best Goron's because he was too light to do so without, no matter how strong he is, because of how light he is he cannot "sumo" a Goron because they can easily throw Link's light body with a push. The boots do not make Link stronger, just make him heavier. Oh... And those boots are enough to keep Link planted from just about everything. A normal human being could not do that. You could confidently stare down a gigantic scorpion-like monster, and best it?

3. Gorons are not as strong as TP Link because he overpowers them, first of all. Once again, the Ryu example. Biologically human, does superhuman feats. Really any SF character can count. Balrog, a human, killed an elephant with a punch. Toonforce, right? Wait... They believe it all has to make physical sense? You are asserting that because Link is biologically a human child, he CANNOT be stronger or more intelligent than that. Hypocrite.

4. TK feats that allowed him to overpower Midna, Link (An adult), and a giant spirit? Casually? Or maybe I am thinking of his feats like changing into a fifty+ foot giant? Or maybe I am thinking of hisreality warping abilities that allow him to change the battlefield to his advantage on a whim? Or would it be his ability to infect entire regions with Twilight Magic, turning them into bodiless, unaware souls? All these powers Zant received from Ganon btw. Link could tear Thrall in half. Ganondorf would not even recognise him as a signifigant threat.

The Light Spirit can create Light Arrows. Being an elemental of light and all, I would hope it knows what effect such weapons have on Ganon. These beings predate even Ganon, they know their purpose, and their purpose has been consistent throughout the series. Yet... Each of them are wrong... Right? Ganondorf puts his arm through any random Pally's chest. He doesn't need magic. Ashbringer I will admit would probably be able to harm him.

I am your better Burning Thought. I am the gaze into the sun, you can feel me, and you may even try to block out my light, but you can never extinquish it. Block my light all you will, my rays shall burn through your lies and reveal the truth for all to see! That you are both a hater, and are a hypocrite, who shall forever lurk to the shadows in the light that is the lollovelink club!

1. Sounds like an assumption, whether he "can" or "cannot" is irrelevent, this temple or w/e the place is has a route to it he could guard. And for one, why didnt he trick link to aid him like he did in the other game? technically Link did aid him in the long run but Ganon could have used Link to take the sword and be rid of it from the beginning if he attempted to same tactic. Well now that you mension it, many villains are through PIS incompetant because their power is vast, far beyond the hero from the beginning and often even by the end. Ares could have just crushed Kratos as he pushed Pandoras box slowly towards him. Or beore he opened it.

Thats a bit of a title, your argument for Link being canonically strong is because hes a "chosen hero of the gods" 🙄 There are many examples, examples of illogical BS is Link, despite having no feats beforehand can suddenly lift things his body could not survive, let alone his strength. PIS and toonforce (or illogical nonsense alike to toonforce) can be seen throughot, bouncing Gorons, WW link example in my previous argument. All of Links feats are based on LoZ being physically logical and as an extension of that, Linkpastes math logic, all assumptions, not facts. Other fictional characters have reasons for their but unlike them, and more alike to Toons link does not. Lifting the pillar is not just strength, its illogical based on durability of Link, the angle he is holding it at, balance and the fact even with GG he strains and sighs with tension as he lifts it then were supposed to belive its physically viable that he can toss it at 100 m/s according to linkpaste without hardly moving his arms? toonforce or illogical. Your a hypocrite btw, because as I pointed out earlier you try and argue how sometihng being a fiction can allow it to ignore logic yet in this, logic is implied and apprently a fact (its not, too many failure of physics in LoZ series).

2. Would you assume that if you were wearing steel toe caps the Rhino would fail? dur, then it seems the developers had a strange sense of humour, you cannot assume that just because you dont find it funny does not mean nobody in the world would find a little kid running up to a huge lump of stone nad tossing it funny. I dont think I have ever laughed at bugs bunny, doesnt mean hes not a toon.

3. And that their weight<iron on links feet. Poor examples, Ryu is not just a normal human and has access to fictional techniques, I dont know the name of them. As for Balrog, I dont know him at all so I wouldnt comment. Your the one argueing against physics and logic, Link is biologically a human/hylian child, thats that. If he wears items to enhance him then fine but dont try and grab a load of toony looking animations and graphics of him lifting things up without reason and try and argue that its physically viable when Link has no "exception" to give him that strength, Kains a vamp, Dantes a demon, Kratos is a Demigod. They all have one thing in common that Link does not, the exception that comes from them being enhanced by their respective universes innately and physcially in various ways. Link being called the "hero of time!" is not an exception.

4. Giant, ive seen that vid and the spirit is hardly "giant" its just larger than he is or at least the part he struck with TK, we dont even know if its heavy, its also snakelike so its not like a physical form, infact I am not going to assume and you shouldnt either what Zant used or whether or not that Spirit had any strength at all, it does not necesserily look physical. illusions, hes just doing what various bosses in the game did. I think thralls caused huge earthquakes or so it was argued a long time ago, if so he would topple Ganon and crush him in his castle from the get go only to laugh at Ganon whimpering and scraping to get out.

You would hope? yes you would because it helps your argument and deprives you from looking even more foolish. Has this light spirit even attacked Ganondorf? does it speak from knowledge or does it lack credability because its not actually seen or done what it claims? He should by your logic do that to link, give a Paladin the toonforce nad PIS link gains and he would just smite Ganon with a holy blast and disintegrate his head like he does to the scourge in the example Q pointed out in the other thread.

better? sure, better at making up illogical fallacies and queer poems. yes because I am a hater of every fiction I negativelly argue against....

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Do you seriously think that is a valid argument? Because essentially what you're saying is that that plinth is > Ganon. And when did I say anything about nullified?

...do you even read posts? I've never said he didn't know where anything was, except for Link in OoT, and by the end of the Forest Temple he knows he's there. But again, he's using Link to bring Zelda out of hiding. He definitely knows where Link is at any given point. When he kidnaps Zelda he isn't even on screen in OoT. He's sitting in his castle being badass and goes "Oh, there's Zelda. That ***** is mine now." But yeah, he definitely knew where the Master Sword is. It froze his minions in time and he knows that Hyrule is underneath the Great Sea.

This helps you because...

I didnt say that, i said the plinth with the MS in it can get between Ganon and his power.

I read posts all the way through, but i see you, nemebro and all the lollinkclub as a single hive mind.

Its just an irrelevant point.

Originally posted by The Scenario
YouTube video

Just watch the whole thing for demonstration of Zant's powers.

TL;DW: Zant TKs, in order, Link, the Light Spirit, then Midna. He blocks Link's attack while cursing him via crystal to the skull. Then TKs Midna and the Light Spirit again, this time forcing the Light Spirit to attack Midna. This nearly kills Midna. Interestingly, Zant seemed unaffected by both the Light Spirit's attacks (then first attack, then the one on Midna.)

YouTube video

9:20

Examples of Midna's TK. Best vids I felt like finding.

YouTube video

5:20

Compare the size of those bridges compared to Link (bigger than the granite block Link picks up in OoT), and then recall Zant TKing her around like a ragdoll. Zant attributes his new power (the first vid in this post) to his god (read: Ganondorf). He even makes sure to specify he is not using Twili magic, but that of his god (still Ganondorf.)

Just realize that this is before Midna actually begins using the Fused Shadows and gets enough power to kill Zant.

Ok so we dont know the power of these attacks really, we know their quite quick, we know hes fairly good at light TK, we dont know the weight of the light spirit if it has much weight but it hits the rock behind it which doesnt even crack.

That looks like something different to TK, Midna sort of looks like shes teleporting it then dropping it into position.

Ok thats fairly imressive but these are feats for Midna? why does this help the argument?

Originally posted by The Scenario
So we have a few choices here. You think it took too long for Ganondorf to destroy the island. How did he then destroy Hyrule Castle so quickly? But maybe he didn't destroy Castle! It was Midna, with Ganondorf still inside. The explosion was large enough to strike him even if the attack missed.

So either Ganondorf can pull that much power really quickly (him destroying the castle) or he's durable enough to take an exploding castle (Midna destroying the castle.) Or two attacks canceled each other and destroyed the castle, in which case it's both (able to destroy castle quickly and take the force of exploding castle.) The point is that it doesn't matter who destroyed the castle when Ganondorf was standing point blank when it exploded, proving him to be able to take an exploding castle. And that if it was him that destroyed the castle, there is now evidence he can pull off that destructive feat quickly, coupled with him being able to destroy an island. He could pull island destroying power quickly.

There are several ways to look at this scene; all of them end with a good feat for Ganondorf.

Now, then.

YouTube video

Room full of soldiers absolutely dominated by the same shadow beasts Link slaughters throughout the game. Often before he gets the Master Sword, so he's weilding a normal one. Adult, trained soldiers failing to defeat what Link regularly does.

We dont have any choices, thats not how a feat works. If you actually see Ganon getting hit by the end of the spear and see him "not" get harmed then print screen it and paste the image in here please, otherwise this is a discussion, not an argument which is fine. In the case of a discussion we could argue Ganon did it, nobody did and it was just another "me demolish my castle!" thing Ganon does in other games when he collapses his castles. Or their combined magic broke the castle, kinda like how Yoda and Sidious connect the force, the resulting blast knocked yoda, in this case it killed Midna.

Or their not physical attacks, their magical and the castle exploding was not because of insane pressure at the point of her spear but some magic fictional explosion of energy. Technically in all these examples Ganon does not have to take any of the damage, if their both hitting with their power then the explosion would go around all of them. This is all assuming ofc that its an explosion at all. This proves nothing, as I said this is a discussion, not an argument, theres no feat behind what Ganon took and an ambiguos set of claims dont make one.

Apart from those where nothing actually hit him at all, and he used his magic to demolish the castle like he does in other LoZ games. Or the one where his magic overpowered Midnas and he teleported before the castle fell on him, hence how he got so close to Link holding the fused shadows.

Thats a "room full" of soldiers? 🙄 , a few soldiers beaten by tactics I bet Link does not face, their also quite slow. Is there a cutscene of Link beating the same shadow beasts? I want to see if hes physically beating them or if their just gameplay and that their not actually doing any of the things we see in that cutscene.

Okay, BT, I'm gonna just go through your post and correct you.

1. Thieves do not need to be stealthy. People who walk into stores with guns and take things are thieves. They are not stealthy. The Gerudo could just as easily be brigands or highway(wo)men.
2. Link = super human. Calling him a child is a horrible argument and holds no water. This has been mentioned.

Links the only witness to the triforce splitting.

Iron boots>Gorons.

I'll say it again. The iron boots are a LOT heavier than iron.

Now you're going to say "then why are they named that?" to which I'll answer "it sounds cool". And then say the words "Megaton Hammer".

If the name of an item is really that important to what it is, then the megaton hammer weighs a megaton. (1 000 000 metric tonnes.) GJ. I win either way.

Your choices:
1. Accept that the iron boots are heavier than their name implies, and that the Megaton Hammer is probably lighter.
2. Continue to claim that the name states they're iron and thus light, and that the Megaton Hammer is a megaton, and thus insanely freaking heavy.

In what universe? In zelda I would argue that their weight is irrelevant because toonforce or illogical gameplay or fiction in general can ignore weight so a cute little toon can lift it up like Link can. Mario does it all the time, bugs bunny can survive cruise liners and anvils fall on him. Ryu if I am not mistaken can also shoot energy from his hands and draws on forces that are fictional in his universe.

Link shows that he is superhuman, therefore he is. Just like Ryu.

Link wasnt around in aLttp prologue and trueforce Ganon was sealed,

Thats a bit of a title, your argument for Link being canonically strong is because hes a "chosen hero of the gods"

Then you scream toon force some more. Get a new argument, that doesn't work.

I dont think I have ever laughed at bugs bunny, doesnt mean hes not a toon.

2. Would you assume that if you were wearing steel toe caps the Rhino would fail?

3. And that their weight<iron on links feet.

Kains a vamp, Dantes a demon, Kratos is a Demigod. They all have one thing in common that Link does not, the exception that comes from them being enhanced by their respective universes innately and physcially in various ways. Link being called the "hero of time!" is not an exception.

Giant, ive seen that vid and the spirit is hardly "giant" its just larger than he is or at least the part he struck with TK, we dont even know if its heavy, its also snakelike so its not like a physical form

give a Paladin the toonforce nad PIS link gains and he would just smite Ganon with a holy blast and disintegrate his head like he does to the scourge in the example Q pointed out in the other thread.

She replied to Neme, this means she is reading ours, and if and when she disagrees, she's a big girl who can speak up for herself, and already has done."

Also, you're still screaming toonforce and assuming that power works on non-scourge.

better? sure, better at making up illogical fallacies and queer poems. yes because I am a hater of every fiction I negativelly argue against....

For the record, the end to Neme's post was a truly epic and manly. Virtues you cannot understand, apparently.