Originally posted by quanchi112
If the have stalemates as you say then they are on the same level.
Darkseid ranges between Skyfather and Low-Trans while Superman is High Herald.
Originally posted by Omega VisionNo, you just stated they usually end up in stalemates whereas skyfathers don't lose or stalemate with someone like Superman often.
I'm ashamed that I improperly used the word. No stalemates so much as impasses. There are times where High Father broke up their fights or other interruptions came between them.Darkseid ranges between Skyfather and Low-Trans while Superman is High Herald.
Originally posted by quanchi112
No, you just stated they usually end up in stalemates whereas skyfathers don't lose or stalemate with someone like Superman often.
His son Grayven is nothing compared to him and yet Grayven still manages to come off better or even in fights with High Heralds like Superman and Kyle Rayner. Being beaten by Superman doesn't mean all that much considering everyone gets beaten by Superman eventually. Its the S-shield, it projects a potent jobber aura.
Originally posted by Omega VisionExcept the fights don't end that way typically at all anymore.
I clumsily used the word stalemate to describe an impasse. Darkseid doesn't stalemate with Superman. Their fights end in one of three ways: (1) Darkseid handily beats, perhaps even stomps Superman (2) there's an interruption (3) Superman beats Darkseid in a ridiculous manner.His son Grayven is nothing compared to him and yet Grayven still manages to come off better or even in fights with High Heralds like Superman and Kyle Rayner. Being beaten by Superman doesn't mean all that much considering everyone gets beaten by Superman eventually. Its the S-shield, it projects a potent jobber aura.
We have two fights in superman/batman where Superman wins and the other Seid flees meaning he lost. We also have an and a showing from superman's own series with victories. We have stalemates in legends basically and in countdown and owaw.
Superman hasn't beaten Cronus, Asmodel, Spectre, or Prime yet has he?
Originally posted by quanchi112
Except the fights don't end that way typically at all anymore.We have two fights in superman/batman where Superman wins and the other Seid flees meaning he lost. We also have an and a showing from superman's own series with victories. We have stalemates in legends basically and in countdown and owaw.
Superman hasn't beaten Cronus, Asmodel, Spectre, or Prime yet has he?
Originally posted by KuRuPT ThanosiNo, it's not the same thing. Most characters are helpless against time manipulation. Some aren't, like Adam Warlock was and others who have demonstrated as such through their own devices. The on-panel evidence suggests that any speculation that Thanos prevents Kronos from using time manipulation on him is not just baseless, but attenuated.
So if you're helpless against something you wouldn't consider that a weakness towards said thing?
Originally posted by quanchi112Thanos has been beaten like Darkseid has been.
Thanos doesn't get beaten like Darkseid has. Examples are Superman(multiple times), Orion, DD.The Thanosi already could have beaten Thor but due to the plot he didn't. That's just a clone who was more successful when taking on asgard with Odin than Doom was without Thor at the time. Thor showed up and ruined Doom's plan and beat him silly and relies on Loki to save him. Not an impressive prep showing at all.
Again, if it's a tactic Doom can implement so can Thanos. That's my point and always has been.
The Sg incident isn't canon so there's no need for me to scream it. Thanos already killed warlock once so who's ignoring it. It was a much weaker Thanos who already killed him once. Drax cheapshotted him with new powers so again what am I ignoring?
Yes, the Thanosi could have beaten Thor with assistance by Mangog and while amped. And Doom taking on the Asgardians has nothing to do your hypocritical attitude towards Darkseid.
It's against Thanos' character, by his own words. Your point is ignoring his character.
It is, just because you didn't like it, doesn't mean it didn't happen. You were ignoring how Warlock and Drax killed Thanos and neither of those defeats had anything to do with his subconcious unworthiness over ultimate power in order to bolster your erroenous theory that Thanos never loses a fight unless he wants to. You were wrong. Concession accepted.
Originally posted by quanchi112Talking out of your a$$ =/= winning a debate. Don't be so obsessed over besting me in a debate. Your predilection for declaring victory at every turn only reveals a sharp insecurity on your part. It's comics. Relax. Or at least get better at debating.
It bothers you I am winning this debate doesn't it?Thanos set about to fix it and was correct about Galactus fixing it. He ended up with Death anyways so again he came out on top even in death.
Thanos solos.
Thanos set about changing his way of life, i.e., nihilistic attitudes towards destroying life in the universe. And Thanos ended up being completely duped and aiding Annihilus who nearly accomplished exactly what Thanos tried to stop doing. And then got killed before cleaning his own mess up.
Not based on anything you've asserted. Because everything you've asserted is typicaly self-serving and/or completely incorrect.
Originally posted by Omega VisionYes, he didn't beat asmodel an entire team did.
He wrestled with Asmodel and he did beat Prime technically in IC. Only someone with no respect for or knowledge of DS as a character would conclude from those fights when compared with the rest of DS's history that DS fights to his full effectiveness when up against Superman.
And Superman had a lot of help in doing so and he was depowered against two men. beating a teenagers without his powers isn't beating a character with their powers.
I laid it all out to the best of my knowledge off hand so where are these Darkseid defeats of Superman. Come on. I challenge you to name them off. You are biased. I exposed you.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Yes, he didn't beat asmodel an entire team did.And Superman had a lot of help in doing so and he was depowered against two men. beating a teenagers without his powers isn't beating a character with their powers.
I laid it all out to the best of my knowledge off hand so where are these Darkseid defeats of Superman. Come on. I challenge you to name them off. You are biased. I exposed you.
Originally posted by Priest
Thanos can't time travel :l
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I see Darkseid and Dr. Doom collaborating more and working with each other in a more fluid manner than Thanos and Luthor.
Luthor is definitely the low-man on the totem pole here, compared to the other three. But Thanos has proven he can work with others to accomplish his goals before. Numerous times. Hell, in Annihilation he even proved he can take orders well. Much more personable.
So, I give Thanos' team the edge.
Originally posted by Enyalus
He wasn't blown across the battlefield like H/P DD or somesuch thing. He stood his ground, gritted his teeth and tanked it. That's pretty much my definition of the word.
Originally posted by Omega VisionHe didn't mop the floor with him if I recall it he just held him to explain himself to which Superman broke free. It's not a win by any means for Darkseid.
He wiped the floor with him in the Man of Steel tie in to OWAW, was winning in Countdown but lost interest in fighting Superman and decided to kill him with Jimmy Olsen, laid him low with a casual hand blast in Action Comics, embarrassed him with a blast of the OE later in the same series, a blast that sent Superman flying so fast that Plastic Man and GL had to stop his movement, he put Superman to his knees in the New Gods when he needed Supes' help to combat Sii'va, fried Superman in Superman Confidential with less than the full OE, slapped aside SUperman in Cosmic Odyssey (and would have beaten him into the ground had High Father not intervened), and physically dominated Superman in Superman Confidential (Superman admitted it would be insane to try fighting him).
He was losing in countdown as Superman was rocking him hence his desperation to use olsen and k-nite to turn the tide.
I'd like issue numbers for this stuff. When did he casually blast him into submission?
Most of this confidential nonsense is a flashback type stuff which happened a long time ago so it's not relevant to how these characters match up today.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0Not at all in the same manner as Thanos has been.
No, it's not the same thing. Most characters are helpless against time manipulation. Some aren't, like Adam Warlock was and others who have demonstrated as such through their own devices. The on-panel evidence suggests that any speculation that Thanos prevents Kronos from using time manipulation on him is not just baseless, but attenuated. Thanos has been beaten like Darkseid has been.Yes, the Thanosi could have beaten Thor with assistance by Mangog and while amped. And Doom taking on the Asgardians has nothing to do your hypocritical attitude towards Darkseid.
It's against Thanos' character, by his own words. Your point is ignoring his character.
It is, just because you didn't like it, doesn't mean it didn't happen. You were ignoring how Warlock and Drax killed Thanos and neither of those defeats had anything to do with his subconcious unworthiness over ultimate power in order to bolster your erroenous theory that Thanos never loses a fight unless he wants to. You were wrong. Concession accepted. Talking out of your a$$ =/= winning a debate. Don't be so obsessed over besting me in a debate. Your predilection for declaring victory at every turn only reveals a sharp insecurity on your part. It's comics. Relax. Or at least get better at debating.
Thanos set about changing his way of life, i.e., nihilistic attitudes towards destroying life in the universe. And Thanos ended up being completely duped and aiding Annihilus who nearly accomplished exactly what Thanos tried to stop doing. And then got killed before cleaning his own mess up.
Not based on anything you've asserted. Because everything you've asserted is typicaly self-serving and/or completely incorrect.
So you agree Thanosi had him dead to rights. Moving on. Doom is involved in this thread and by comparison and with Loki's aid fared worse against a much crappier asgard. So this is relevant to the thread as this is prep. Even with prep Doom got crushed by Thor.
Has Thanos or has he not manipulated time before?
I never said Thanos doesn't ever get beaten I said when he puts his mind to it it takes a lot more to take him down than anyone else in this thread. He told Drax to give him a moment and was killed and was taken by surprise by warlock's ghost. That's pretty much it. Compare that to darkseid prepping for DD to where he got his ass handed to him.
Sg isn't canon.
Thanos wasn't going to let things escalate and found out before it was too late so again no shame there. He took measures to find out his true intentions through Moondragon so again Thanos covered his bases.
Originally posted by EnyalusIf there is one character out there who has humiliated Darkseid at every turn on every medium it's Superman.
😬 That was not something to brag about for Darkseid fans. Superman tanked the OE and matched up pretty well with DS. And that was a young Superman.
Originally posted by quanchi112
He didn't mop the floor with him if I recall it he just held him to explain himself to which Superman broke free. It's not a win by any means for Darkseid.
Originally posted by quanchi112
I'd like issue numbers for this stuff. When did he casually blast him into submission?
Originally posted by EnyalusRight. Darkseid only looked superior when he fought Superman after he'd just been blasted by the Black Racer.
Around AC 812 or 814 Darkseid shows up in Metropolis with his parademons, and Superman one-shot punches Darkseid back through his Boom Tube. Since OV wanted to use AC stuff. 😎 [/B]
Originally posted by EnyalusCorrect.
Right. Darkseid only looked superior when he fought Superman after he'd just been blasted by the Black Racer.Around AC 812 or 814 Darkseid shows up in Metropolis with his parademons, and Superman one-shot punches Darkseid back through his Boom Tube. Since OV wanted to use AC stuff. 😎 [/B]
I referenced that as I read it I just forgot what issue number. Such a terrible read that issue.
Originally posted by Omega VisionIt was embarrassing for him to be dismissed so easily with his men by Superman.
He didn't punch him as I recall. He threw him back along with his goons. Darkseid was fit as a fiddle on the otherside, just really annoyed.