Darkseid and Dr Doom vs Thanos and Lex Luthor

Originally posted by Enyalus
I s'pose I shouldn't interject on comments that aren't directed at me. Oops. Bad habit?

Guess you could count the punch AND the blast as what caused Warlock to lay dying, though personally I see the punch as a counter and the blast alone as what did it. I said 'one-shot killed' instead of 'one-shot would-have-killed' 'cause they're basically the same, and I didn't know you would get so technical. But hey, you're a good debater and I should've expected it. I was sloppy with the wording. *shrug*

I see your point regarding Warlock. Still, don't think he's ever been powerful enough to one-shot kill someone of or above Thanos' level before or since.

You suggesting I'm just mincing words? Because I am. Good. Warlock still killed himself. biscuits

I'm not divorcing that feat from his Soul Gem mind you. And he has outright murdered a Thanosi that was 3x physically more powerful than the original if that counts.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I'm not divorcing that feat from his Soul Gem mind you. And he has outright murdered a Thanosi that was 3x physically more powerfu than the original if that counts.

(But seriously, pretty sure I'm right.)

^ sneer

That last part meant I totally didn't lose this debate. Therefore I claim....standoff!

In the true Odin vs. Thanos style.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Read the forum rules regarding PIS. Would you say Spider-Man is superior in terms of power to Rhino because of Spidey's consistent record against him (which is much, much better than Superman's record against DS)?

There are only two occasions of Superman straight up beating DS and in both cases you're one of the few people who doesn't see how crappy the writing was.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Worse against Squirrel Girl. One-shotted by Warlock and Drax.

Are you stupid? The Thanosi had him on the ropes by relying on Mangog's help. In Thor's first encounter, he waylays an unamped Thanosi out and Mangog ambushes him and pummels Thor til the Thanosi recovers. Doom prepping against Asgardians and being interrupted before finishing has nothing to do with your hypocritical attitude towards Darkseid. Poor deflection.

He's manipulated his position in the timestream before, aka a long-winded way of saying time-travel. I am unaware of him manipulating time itself, only being helpless against it.You did state that Thanos never gets beaten unless he allows them: "a hero can only beat Thanos if he subconsciously allows it and that seems to have gone to the wasteside." And you were wrong. Squirrel Girl, Warlock, Drax. Qualifying your incorrect statements after the fact doesn't make your original arguments anymore cogent and doesn't change the fact that you were wrong again. Knock the quaneuvering off.

Squirrel Girl is canon, get over it.

Drax cheapshotted him and warlock's ghost came back to deal with Thanos. Completely different considering Thanos already defeated Warlock whereas darkseid just gets flat out beaten.

It would appear you are the stupid one not I. The Thanosi could have had him killed so nothing I stated was untrue.

Doom is involved in this thread as well and it's another example of how utterly laughable Doom can be with prep compared to Thanos. Darkseid had prep against DD and his entire planet and was beaten to death against a mindless brick. These guys are screwed against Thanos.

If he kills them he doesn't have to worry about their ghosts comi9ng back with half the universe's help to stop him at his weakest making your examples completely hilarious.

Neither are masters of time so every character in here can't just manipulate time without being fearful of what it might do to them. Saying Doom time travels to beat Thanos is a way of saying he can't beat Thanos when facing him. It's a sign of respect for Thanos.

Warlock was killed once so per forum rules he died and lost. Drax cheapshotted him so per forum rules he won't be turning his back so it's another example with no weight. Sg isn't canon nor did we see what actually happened so it's worthless too.

Thanos solos.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Sg didn't beat the real Thanos off panel. Holds little to no weight on the board. It's a joke.

Drax cheapshotted him and warlock's ghost came back to deal with Thanos. Completely different considering Thanos already defeated Warlock whereas darkseid just gets flat out beaten.

It would appear you are the stupid one not I. The Thanosi could have had him killed so nothing I stated was untrue.

Doom is involved in this thread as well and it's another example of how utterly laughable Doom can be with prep compared to Thanos. Darkseid had prep against DD and his entire planet and was beaten to death against a mindless brick. These guys are screwed against Thanos.

Thanos got flat out beaten. Three times. You're not making any real distinction as Darkseid has his moments of kicking the crap out of the people who beat and "embarass" him also.

Yes, the Thanosi could have ordered Mangog to kill Thor. Mangog > Thor. And an amped Thanosi could have killed Thor also. Amped Thanosi > Thor. Reread when Thor took on the Thanosi on his own.

You asked me to elaborate why I thought your comments on Darkseid were utterly ironic. I explained. You defended, I rebutted. Now you're deflecting from that and bringing in Doom, who you didn't even mention in those comments I thought were ironic. That is a desperate attempt to change the subject. And Doom's prep feats are greater than Thanos' regardless, now that you mention it.

Originally posted by quanchi112
If he kills them he doesn't have to worry about their ghosts comi9ng back with half the universe's help to stop him at his weakest making your examples completely hilarious.

Neither are masters of time so every character in here can't just manipulate time without being fearful of what it might do to them. Saying Doom time travels to beat Thanos is a way of saying he can't beat Thanos when facing him. It's a sign of respect for Thanos.

Warlock was killed once so per forum rules he died and lost. Drax cheapshotted him so per forum rules he won't be turning his back so it's another example with no weight. Sg isn't canon nor did we see what actually happened so it's worthless too.

Thanos solos.

Master of time isn't necessary to take down Thanos. So your point is superfluous. Freezing time around Thanos is a far less round-about way than time-travelling. Which wasn't ever the substance of our discussion, i.e., hypocritical attitude towards Darkseid and unabashed speculation that Thanos is immune to time manipulation.

Warlock killed Thanos. Drax killed Thanos. Squirrel Girl apparently curb-stomped him off-panel. Perfectly cogent examples that utterly destroy your absurd assertion that Thanos never was beaten without subconsciously allowing them to. None of those fights involved gaining ultimate power. Try and stay on topic if you have the guts.

Thanos soloes the curb with his cheek while Squirrel Girl dusts her hands off in a canon book. Gotcha. Good description. Couldn't have said it better meself. 👆

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Real Thanos. Confirmed by Watcher on-panel. Still worse than Darkseid ever got. So going off all on Darkseid for being beaten and "humiliated" and not recognizing that you can throw that crap right back onto Thanos? Well... that's just tiring.

Thanos got flat out beaten. Three times. You're not making any real distinction as Darkseid has his moments of kicking the crap out of the people who beat and "embarass" him also.

Yes, the Thanosi could have ordered Mangog to kill Thor. Mangog > Thor. And an amped Thanosi could have killed Thor also. Amped Thanosi > Thor. Reread when Thor took on the Thanosi on his own.

You asked me to elaborate why I thought your comments on Darkseid were utterly ironic. I explained. You defended, I rebutted. Now you're deflecting from that and bringing in Doom, who you didn't even mention in those comments I thought were ironic. That is a desperate attempt to change the subject. And Doom's prep feats are greater than Thanos' regardless, now that you mention it.Since when are we talking about having half the universe's help? Who brought that up? I was bringing up Warlock, Squirrel Girl and Drax as counters to you bringing up Superman beatin Darkseid and your laughable assertion that Thanos has never been beaten unless he subconsciously wanted to get beaten.

Master of time isn't necessary to take down Thanos. So your point is superfluous. Freezing time around Thanos is a far less round-about way than time-travelling. Which wasn't ever the substance of our discussion, i.e., hypocritical attitude towards Darkseid and unabashed speculation that Thanos is immune to time manipulation.

Warlock killed Thanos. Drax killed Thanos. Squirrel Girl apparently curb-stomped him off-panel. Perfectly cogent examples that utterly destroy your absurd assertion that Thanos never was beaten without subconsciously allowing them to. None of those fights involved gaining ultimate power. Try and stay on topic if you have the guts.

Thanos soloes the curb with his cheek while Squirrel Girl dusts her hands off in a canon book. Gotcha. Good description. Couldn't have said it better meself. 👆

Thanos already defeated warlock and his ghost came back so it's irrelevant and completely different. Thanos ignored Drax and turned his back to him so it's irrelevant. Sg isn't canon so you have nothing.

So you agree Thanos could have had him disposed of and since Thor's the hero and since he had to win sooner or later he did against a clone which still is more impressive than what Doom was able to accomplish wit Loki's aid.

Your examples aren't comparable to DD or Orion or Superman victories over Ds. Sorry, they just aren't.

The master of times actions were required as he was the one who created drax. It seems like abstracts are needed to aid these heroes to bring him down doesn't it? It sure does.

I never said completely immune I said it doesn't seem as cut and dry as such like anyone can easily just travel back in time and destroy Thanos in that manner.

I wrecked your arguments with the context of the situations.

Not canon to Thanos. You can continue to act like it was but it wasn't.

Originally posted by Enyalus

You must be talking about something entirely different. Thanos was killed by Warlock once. And that was after Thanos killed him here:

Afterwards, he is resurrected and amped by Master Order and/or Lord Chaos, and kills Thanos. That's the only time I recall Warlock killing Thanos.

Death was right there. He understood what was going on. He just had wanted to set Galactus free, first.

An off-panel defeat to an undefeated joke character? No. Darkseid begging for Superman to stop in Apokolips Now was far more humiliating. [/B]

Since when did he ever beg Superman to stop (anything) in Apokolips Now?? 😕

Originally posted by quanchi112
I know I've brought this up before but I am sure you will ignore it but a clone has fooled Eternity and even Death before so this watcher was more than likely wrong based on now precise these clones are since marvel doesn't recognize this as canon for Thanos.

Thanos already defeated warlock and his ghost came back so it's irrelevant and completely different. Thanos ignored Drax and turned his back to him so it's irrelevant. Sg isn't canon so you have nothing.

So you agree Thanos could have had him disposed of and since Thor's the hero and since he had to win sooner or later he did against a clone which still is more impressive than what Doom was able to accomplish wit Loki's aid.

I have three physical defeats of Thanos that had absolutely nothing to do with his subconscious unworthiness over ultimate power (not even including him being utterly outclassed by other foes in other situations). You have a childish predilection for smear tactics against characters you don't like while hiding behind hypocritical double-standards to prevent those smear tactics from being rightly used on yuor own favored characters.

I agree that Thanos could have asked Mangog to dispose of him at any time, including when Mangog suddenly blitzed Thor (who had just waylaid the Thanos clone in their first encounter). Diverting from how Thanos had the assistance of Mangog is an ignorant ploy.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Your examples aren't comparable to DD or Orion or Superman victories over Ds. Sorry, they just aren't.

The master of times actions were required as he was the one who created drax. It seems like abstracts are needed to aid these heroes to bring him down doesn't it? It sure does.

I never said completely immune I said it doesn't seem as cut and dry as such like anyone can easily just travel back in time and destroy Thanos in that manner.

I wrecked your arguments with the context of the situations.

Not canon to Thanos. You can continue to act like it was but it wasn't.

Thanos has been beaten without Kronos' involvement whatsoever. So once again, your point about "masters of time" is utterly superfluous. Deflecting from Thanos' utter helplessness against a time-freeze changes nothing and completely blunts any speculation that time manipulation on Kronos' level is required to beat Thanos.

Concession accepted.

This wasn't a debate. It was a deconstruction of your hypocritical nonsense. At first, I demonstrated that through irony. Any of your rationalizations thereafter boil down to pointless deflections, "nuh uh's" and presumptuous declarations of "I am teh winnzorz."

Canon to Thanos. You can continue to act like it wasn't but it was.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I know you've brought up your litany of excuses and it's still canon. The comic plainly presents that it was the real Thanos. Sorry.

I have three physical defeats of Thanos that had absolutely nothing to do with his subconscious unworthiness over ultimate power (not even including him being utterly outclassed by other foes in other situations). You have a childish predilection for smear tactics against characters you don't like while hiding behind hypocritical double-standards to prevent those smear tactics from being rightly used on yuor own favored characters.

I agree that Thanos could have asked Mangog to dispose of him at any time, including when Mangog suddenly blitzed Thor (who had just waylaid the Thanos clone in their first encounter). Diverting from how Thanos had the assistance of Mangog is an ignorant ploy. Darkseid never got curbstomped by Squirrel Power.

Thanos has been beaten without Kronos' involvement whatsoever. So once again, your point about "masters of time" is utterly superfluous. Deflecting from Thanos' utter helplessness against a time-freeze changes nothing and completely blunts any speculation that time manipulation on Kronos' level is required to beat Thanos.

Concession accepted.

This wasn't a debate. It was a deconstruction of your hypocritical nonsense. At first, I demonstrated that through irony. Any of your rationalizations thereafter boil down to pointless deflections, "nuh uh's" and presumptuous declarations of "I am teh winnzorz."

Canon to Thanos. You can continue to act like it wasn't but it was.

So you agree Thor only lived because the Thanosi clone allowed it which later cost him making a point this thanosi far outclassed Doom against a weaker Thor. Thanks.

Neither did Thanos so I guess they have that in common and Sg is a joke character who doesn't lose unlike Superman and DD.

This is a scenario is which they both have prep so acting as if Thanos will be caught off guard and defeated in such a manner is both ignorant and biased to say the least. I get you like Doom but even with Darkseid's aid these guys fall way short of him in terms of prep.

You put words in my mouth yet again. I simply said had it been as easy as you describe then Kronos wouldn't need to create Drax.

It was a joke and a jab aimed at starlin I can't help it if you don't have any common sense. That's your deal.

Originally posted by kevdude
Since when did he ever beg Superman to stop (anything) in Apokolips Now?? 😕

Originally posted by quanchi112
As an intelligent human being I understand it was a joke aimed at starlin and in no way to be considered to happening to the real Thanos whatsoever.

So you agree Thor only lived because the Thanosi clone allowed it which later cost him making a point this thanosi far outclassed Doom against a weaker Thor. Thanks.

Neither did Thanos so I guess they have that in common and Sg is a joke character who doesn't lose unlike Superman and DD.

I agree that the Thanos clone did not order Mangog to finish the job. And I also agree that Thor waylaid the Thanos clone in their first encounter and Mangog ambushed him thereafter. Had Doom had Mangog at his side, I'm sure Doom could also allow Thor to live after Mangog beats the crap out of him.

Thanos got curbstomped by Squirrel Power. Sorry you didn't know.

Originally posted by quanchi112
This is a scenario is which they both have prep so acting as if Thanos will be caught off guard and defeated in such a manner is both ignorant and biased to say the least. I get you like Doom but even with Darkseid's aid these guys fall way short of him in terms of prep.

You put words in my mouth yet again. I simply said had it been as easy as you describe then Kronos wouldn't need to create Drax.

It was a joke and a jab aimed at starlin I can't help it if you don't have any common sense. That's your deal.

Oops, there you go again, reverse-projecting some sort of time mastery onto Thanos simply because a time-related Asbtract empowered an agent. Ridicule reengaged.

It was a joke and a jab aimed at starlin and I can't help it if you act like the joke wasn't actually played and somehow never happened. It might pain you, but on-panel is on-panel.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Are you serious? I don't think you read the story if you would post something this ignorant.

😆 Oh I've read it, since when did he ever beg anything?? Read the whole thing, don't remember him begging for anything, maybe if you call him wanting to kill everyone begging, but still thats not begging.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
As a reasonably intelligent person, I understand that the joke would have no punchline if indeed it was not the real Thanos.

I agree that the Thanos clone did not order Mangog to finish the job. And I also agree that Thor waylaid the Thanos clone in their first encounter and Mangog ambushed him thereafter. Had Doom had Mangog at his side, I'm sure Doom could also allow Thor to live after Mangog beats the crap out of him.

Thanos got curbstomped by Squirrel Power. Sorry you didn't know. Actually, the ignorant and biased thing to say is that Thanos would be immune to such tactics, because someone reverse-projected Kronos' relative power and his choice to amp Drax as some sort of time mastery for Thanos. Concession accepted.

Oops, there you go again, reverse-projecting some sort of time mastery onto Thanos simply because a time-related Asbtract empowered an agent. Ridicule reengaged.

It was a joke and a jab aimed at starlin and I can't help it if you act like the joke wasn't actually played and somehow never happened. It might pain you, but on-panel is on-panel.

Doom has never had Mangog aid him so I doubt he would follow Doom's orders like the thanosi's. Doom had help through a brilliant manipulator in Loki while a Thanosi was the brains behind his operation while Doom failed despite Loki's help and insight.

Not the real Thanos. I seem to recall Doom being overrun by squirrels. 😂 He was almost beaten to death by Thor. Just regular I can show up and crush Doom despite all his prep. What an awesome showing for Doom.

You acted as if time travel equals dead Thanos when he is prepping against that said person. Once again you put your foot in your mouth and based on what it's taken to defeat Thanos with prep it's highly unlikely Doom can easily take Thanos out when he is prepping for Doom himself.

I simply said it's obviously not as easy as you think. Common sense to odg. Please come in.

It's not canon to the real Thanos.

Originally posted by kevdude
😆 Oh I've read it, since when did he ever beg anything?? Read the whole thing, don't remember him begging for anything, maybe if you call him wanting to kill everyone begging, but still thats not begging.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
He's referring to the end of that horrible Jobbfest when Darkseid begged for quarter just because his eyes had been beaten shut and he couldn't use the OE. Apparently Darkseid forgot that he can heal such small wounds or just use handblasts or any number of other strategies rather than begging a High Herald character for mercy. That was easily the worst story Darkseid's ever been in, a fifth grader could have written Darkseid better than that.

It's canon and entirely believable based on the countless times Supes has held his own against Seid.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Apparently you forgot he can't and has relies on his eye blasts to do the bulk of his damage before.

It's canon and entirely believable based on the countless times Supes has held his own against Seid.

Even if your completely unsupported "his eyes are required for the full OE" thesis was correct it still doesn't change the fact that DS could have easily healed such small wounds to his eyes and blasted Superman again.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
He's referring to the end of that horrible Jobbfest when Darkseid begged for quarter just because his eyes had been beaten shut and he couldn't use the OE. Apparently Darkseid forgot that he can heal such small wounds or just use handblasts or any number of other strategies rather than begging a High Herald character for mercy. That was easily the worst story Darkseid's ever been in, a fifth grader could have written Darkseid better than that.

Oh yeah I know what their talking about, Superman won so he won his terms. DS never really begged him to stop fighting, it was just over. I can see where they would use the word begged (as it pertains to what he would give SM)..

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Countless? Define 'held his own' because a lot of their encounters have Supes on his knees. Hell he's put him on his knees with a handblast before.

Even if your completely unsupported "his eyes are required for the full OE" thesis was correct it still doesn't change the fact that DS could have easily healed such small wounds to his eyes and blasted Superman again.

Ds can't easily heal from every attack which comes his way. Supes beat his face in.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I've already gone through this with you and you just ignore them all making you biased when it comes to seid.

Ds can't easily heal from every attack which comes his way. Supes beat his face in.

Notice I've never once claimed to be unbiased when it comes to Darkseid but unlike you and your pathological obsession with ensuring Thanos always wins that seems to lead you to mercilessly lowballing his forum rival I don't adopt such terrible double-standards to argue points I know aren't true. Anyone who has even one faint iota of respect and understanding for Darkseid as a character would be able to tell that AN was a PIS-ridden Jobbfest that according to the rules of the forum shouldn't even be a matter of debate.