Originally posted by GrieverSquall
I don't know what you mean by 'realistic'. I suppose you say 'realistic' inside that Universe? If that's the case, I agree. Although, my point was, that you can't use extremely exaggerated animations such as Supernova to prove that all the rest of the animations are inaccurate or, in this case 'unrealistic'.
It shows that battle animations are unreliable. And as such, are not good evidence.
Originally posted by GrieverSquall
This has nothing to do with anything, we are talking about animations here. What have to do if the characters wait for their turns to attack with battle animations?
The two go hand in hand. You seem to want to accept everything that FF8 does as fact, regardless of evidence outside of battle to the contrary, based off of the stance that "we didn't make the game." Now, if we follow that line of reasoning. We must conclude that Squall takes turns to attack.
We all know he doesn't, obviously. So we have to be able to tell the difference between game mechanics and viable storyline evidence. We know that battle animations are not 100% accurate representations of the characters abilities. We can see as much with super nova. And just like super nova, Zell running circles around the world is equally unrealistic. The argument that we cannot discard this ability because we didn't make the game is purely nonsense. We have to look at situations logically, and common sense dictates that Zell cannot run light speed.
And just like super nova, Zell running circles around the world is equally unrealistic. The argument that we cannot discard this ability because we didn't make the game is purely nonsense. We have to look at situations logically, and common sense dictates that Zell cannot run light speed.
Common sense says the exact opposite, as I have explained in the past. We see him run off screen and run in again from the opposite direction, coupled with a shot of something moving around the gloe and his speed being such that his opponents spin through sheer air resistence. There is literally nothing else that could logically be happening.
Originally posted by TacDavey
It shows that battle animations are unreliable. And as such, are not good evidence.
It seems that anything is good evidence to know how the hell the characters performs in their fights.... I was pointing out that you can't use just one animation to disprove all the rest of the animations, that is all. I hope you understand.
Originally posted by TacDavey
The two go hand in hand. You seem to want to accept everything that FF8 does as fact, regardless of evidence outside of battle to the contrary, based off of the stance that "we didn't make the game." Now, if we follow that line of reasoning. We must conclude that Squall takes turns to attack.
Tac, this is for me? When did I said: 'we didn't make the game' ? Nephthys said it, not me... 😕
And... Nope, I don't want to accept everything seen in the Gameplay as fact, you're wrong there. Animations are animations, the player waiting for his turn to attack, has nothing to do with an animation at all.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Common sense says the exact opposite, as I have explained in the past. We see him run off screen and run in again from the opposite direction, coupled with a shot of something moving around the gloe and his speed being such that his opponents spin through sheer air resistence. There is literally nothing else that could logically be happening.
Just like there is nothing else that could be happening while Sephiroth destroys the galaxy and bubbles up the sun. Do you really think that happened? Because if it did, the planet would be gone.
Battle animations are game mechanics. Sephiroth never actually destroys the planets and sun, Zell never actually runs around the planet. It's put in the game to look cool. Nothing more.
Originally posted by GrieverSquall
It seems that anything is good evidence to know how the hell the characters performs in their fights.... I was pointing out that you can't use just one animation to disprove all the rest of the animations, that is all. I hope you understand.
It's not just one, it's a lot of them. I'm not using one animation to disprove the rest. Battle animations are not subject to the laws of reality. So if you want to use one to claim that a character can do something, like say, run around the world in 3 seconds, you can't, because battle animations are separate from the characters true abilities. Super Nova was only brought up to help prove this point.
Originally posted by GrieverSquall
Tac, this is for me? When did I said: 'we didn't make the game' ? Nephthys said it, not me... 😕
Sorry, no GrieverSquall that wasn't for you. I used the wrong post name thing. That was for Nephthys.
Just like there is nothing else that could be happening while Sephiroth destroys the galaxy and bubbles up the sun. Do you really think that happened? Because if it did, the planet would be gone.
Exactly, this is why we can logically surmise that Sephiroth doesn't blow up the Sun. Can you come up with a logical reason why Zell doesn't run around the planet?
It's put in the game to look cool. Nothing more.
Prove it.
My argument has video evidence, your's merely has opinion and conjecture.
Why does it take so long to go from city to city in the game while on foot?
PIS. The party also has a spell that lets them float, but they can't run over lakes, they have GF's that could easily blow up a train but don't do so. etc.
That's an awful lot of extra effort to put into an attack.
He wants to build momentum. Plus it is his best attack.
Originally posted by TacDavey
It's not just one, it's a lot of them. I'm not using one animation to disprove the rest. Battle animations are not subject to the laws of reality. So if you want to use one to claim that a character can do something, like say, run around the world in 3 seconds, you can't, because battle animations are separate from the characters true abilities. Super Nova was only brought up to help prove this point.
Well... Name me some besides Supernova, Blasting Zone or My Final Heaven. I'd say a lot of them are pretty accurate, Zell's punches and kicks to the enemies are very accurate, that's what he does (I'm putting Zell as an simple example). I don't see why that is illogical, if that's so, then how the hell the characters performs? We never get to see how Zell really fight monsters. I have heard Supernova is like an illusion or something, I don't really know if that's true though.
Laws of reality? What do you mean by that?
Originally posted by TacDavey
Sorry, no GrieverSquall that wasn't for you. I used the wrong post name thing. That was for Nephthys.
It's fine, no problem, friend. 🙂
Originally posted by Nephthys
Exactly, this is why we can logically surmise that Sephiroth doesn't blow up the Sun. Can you come up with a logical reason why Zell doesn't run around the planet?
You've already been given some. Why do we never seem him use his super speed ability any other time? It would come in handy in a number of situations. There is never any mention of Zell possessing super human speed. In fact, Zell shouldn't ever get hit, because he should be able to light speed it out of the way. There should be no need for transportation of any kind, as Zell should be able to piggy back everyone around the world in a few seconds. Why didn't they send Zell back to the gardens to warn them about the attacks if he could have made the trip in a few seconds?
Originally posted by GrieverSquall
Well... Name me some besides Supernova, Blasting Zone or My Final Heaven. I'd say a lot of them are pretty accurate,
Sure.
1.) Angelo's Cannon: Rinoa's limit break. She shoots an exploding dog, no real need for explanation there.
2.) Different Beat: Zell's limit break. He back-flip kicks up into the sky and finishes with a flaming kick. Ignoring gravity all the way.
3.) Massive Anchor: The fat dude from past mans team's limit break. He tosses the anchor up in the air and then leaps, like, two stories up after it.
4.) I don't know the name. Ultimicia's limit break. She throws planets into you.
5.) Most of Cait Sith's limit breaks. Including Game Over, which gives you a game over, if I'm not mistaken.
6.) Landscaper: Yuffies limit break. She punches open the ground.
7.) Lionheart: Squall's limit break. He shoots enemies up into the air with a swing of his sword, then follows with a string of attacks while he hovers in air.
To name a few.
Originally posted by GrieverSquall
Zell's punches and kicks to the enemies are very accurate, that's what he does (I'm putting Zell as an simple example).
Not all of Zell's attacks are accurate. The most extreme being the one where he summons dolphins with a kick.
Originally posted by GrieverSquall
I don't see why that is illogical, if that's so, then how the hell the characters performs? We never get to see how Zell really fight monsters.
By looking at the character. We know Zell fights with his fists and uses GFs and apparently has the ability to cast magic if he draws it from a monster.
Originally posted by GrieverSquall
I have heard Supernova is like an illusion or something, I don't really know if that's true though.
Where did you hear that?
Originally posted by TacDavey
Sure.1.) Angelo's Cannon: Rinoa's limit break. She shoots an exploding dog, no real need for explanation there.
2.) Different Beat: Zell's limit break. He back-flip kicks up into the sky and finishes with a flaming kick. Ignoring gravity all the way.
3.) Massive Anchor: The fat dude from past mans team's limit break. He tosses the anchor up in the air and then leaps, like, two stories up after it.
4.) I don't know the name. Ultimicia's limit break. She throws planets into you.
5.) Most of Cait Sith's limit breaks. Including Game Over, which gives you a game over, if I'm not mistaken.
6.) Landscaper: Yuffies limit break. She punches open the ground.
7.) Lionheart: Squall's limit break. He shoots enemies up into the air with a swing of his sword, then follows with a string of attacks while he hovers in air.
To name a few.
Indeed, all of these are awesome animations.
Let's see.
1.) Angelo. We know those animations are really exaggerated and I would say they don't make much sense. But Angelo doesn't fight? We know he's introduced in the story, but... He is just introduced like a simple dog and that's all? What's your opinion? If he can't do anything of that... Then he doesn't fight at all which I find a bit weird... I'm sure he at least helps the party (Rinoa).
2.) Zell. What do you mean by 'he ignores Gravity' ? As far as I know, the Final Fantasy characters defy Gravity. In Different Beat, that 'Sky' with clouds suddenly appears, because the screen turns dark for a second then the Sky screen appears, I don't see Zell going to the Sky at all. What if is a flaming kick? What's the problem with that? What if they are back-flip kicks? Zell can't do those kind of kicks? What about his combos? Those are also unrealistic animations? Zell can't deal punches and kicks to the enemies?
3.) Ah, Massive Anchor, I never liked that attack, very stupid.
4.) Great Attractor is the name of Ultimecia/Griever's attack. Those aren't really planets, look at the characters, those things are just a bit larger than them. That could be an illusion attack by the way.
5.) Yeah I know, also Selphie's 'The End' or Odin's 'Zantetsuken' which both are instant kill. But I take those as players benefits. Also the Magic Death.
6.) Oh. But have you seen 'Greased Lightning' ? That's Yuffie doing a single slash to an enemy. Or... 'Clear Tranquil' ? That's her healing them. And 'Bloodfest' ? She does several slashes to the enemies. I don't see ANYTHING weird in those three... Unless you suggest she can't do anything of those which I would need a GOOD reason.
7.) You forgot that Squall is super-human? I have already explained what GFs does. The Final Fantasy characters also defy Gravity, read above. Renzokuken is also unrealistic? Even when you Scan Squall you can see he uses Renzokuken on his enemies. Hell, he has got unique animations for each enemy when he performs Renzokuken. Squall sending an enemy to the air with an slash, is something that you must verify very well. He wouldn't send Griever to the air because Griever can fly. He wouldn't send Omega Weapon to the air because is too heavy. But he would send Seifer, soldiers or medium-sized enemies/monsters. We have to use common sense here. Squall can jump and slash enemies on the air, why he wouldn't? We don't have to take an animation so strictly, because Lion Heart starts sending enemies to air, doesn't mean Squall would send a robot to air. It means he can still slash that robot.
Originally posted by TacDavey
Not all of Zell's attacks are accurate. The most extreme being the one where he summons dolphins with a kick.
Dolphin Blow... But he does a high punch there, so you suggest he can't do a high punch? Take that Dolphin away, Tifa als does the same and we can't see her doing that on Loz. Also Cloud, he does Omnislash in the movie and all of his Limit Breaks. Or you would say Omnislash Version 5 is unrealistic? That was the atack that finished Sephiroth.
Originally posted by TacDavey
By looking at the character. We know Zell fights with his fists and uses GFs and apparently has the ability to cast magic if he draws it from a monster.
But still you are (basically) denying his feats, on his animations he does combos to his enemies, still you say animations are unrealistic. And he fights with his fists and also with kicks. Apparently? He have the ability to cast Magic. Magic can be extracted from creatures, objects, etc.
Originally posted by TacDavey
Where did you hear that?
Here. I have heard it here, I don't know if is true though...