Originally posted by Sin_VolvagiaThat's because they never change that crap, the silver arrows are still silver, their's still a cross on his shield, ect. It would be screwing with a classic, and they know that.
That was most likely an error made by Nintendo. LoZ has been rereleased three times and the sword is still the Magical Sword.
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
That's because they never change that crap, the silver arrows are still silver, their's still a cross on his shield, ect. It would be screwing with a classic, and they know that.
It's not that hard to change Magical to Master or Silver to Light. They use less letters. That means no retcon. Also, the silver arrows > light arrows 😆 😆
Originally posted by Sin_Volvagiamariofacepalm Godamnit man, you're starting to sound like BT. It IS a retcon, but they're not going to retroactively change the games, otherwise they'd take the cross off his shield, ect..
It's not that hard to change Magical to Master or Silver to Light. They use less letters. That means no retcon. Also, the silver arrows > light arrows 😆 😆
Originally posted by Sin_Volvagia
FF8 PIS
Okay, so I can avoid further confusion, someone is going to have to tell me what PIS means.
Originally posted by Sin_Volvagia
No one in the world could've stopped Adel. She had to be sealed. PLus, she wasn't even at full strength during her boss fight.
And no one in the world could stop Ganon. So? All we know of her is that she ruled that country or whatever, and was a major douche. This says nothing about her abilities compared to Ganon.
Originally posted by Sin_Volvagia
The full Triforce is the strongest item in the Zelda universe and Ganon with it was stil defeated. And without the Master Sword.
Okay okay, SECOND strongest artifact. Still doesn't refute my point.
Originally posted by TacDavey
Okay, so I can avoid further confusion, someone is going to have to tell me what PIS means.
Plot-induced stupidity. Usually refers to when weaker characters are able to defeat a completely superior opponent. Darkseid getting hurt by Batman is PIS.
And no one in the world could stop Ganon. So? All we know of her is that she ruled that country or whatever, and was a major douche. This says nothing about her abilities compared to Ganon.
It's just to show that Ganon is below the power of Ultimecia.
Originally posted by Sin_Volvagia
Plot-induced stupidity. Usually refers to when weaker characters are able to defeat a completely superior opponent. Darkseid getting hurt by Batman is PIS.
Ahh, I see. Thank you.
Originally posted by Sin_Volvagia
It's just to show that Ganon is below the power of Ultimecia.
How does it do this? You would have to make the claim that Adel is stronger than Ganon. But I see no reason to think so. The only people who could rival Ganon where Link and Zelda, who had the Master Sword AND The Triforces of Wisdom and Courage, not to mention all the sages backing them up.
I don't see what evidence you have that places Adel above Ganon.
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
mariofacepalm Godamnit man, you're starting to sound like BT. It IS a retcon, but they're not going to retroactively change the games, otherwise they'd take the cross off his shield, ect..
Again with the Light Arrow/Silver arrow argument?
Silver Arrows is a confirmed retcon. Light arrows are the superior replacement for the Silver Arrows. On top of that, Silver in the Zeldaverse is not comparable to silver in reality of any other universe because Zelda-silver has always been associated with strong magical properties (i.e. Silver Gauntlets, Silver Arrows, etc.)
No, he could warn people. Evacuate some, or get people into a safer place instead of just leaving them to their fate. He would make it there FAR ahead of those missiles.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNJIVfWI2W4
The scene in question is at 4.00. Zell is only told where the missles are actually going at 4.10. Selphie makes her comment at 4.23, so Zell would have had only about 10 seconds to get there and get out, when it takes him 5 seconds to power up 'My Final Heaven' each time. He would have had no time. Notice, btw, that the guy speaks each line, so the timing is correct. Notice also that they are in the middle of nowhere with no knowledge of their relation to Trabia, so Zell has no idea of which direction to run in.
I rest my case. Next scene.
I don't think he teleported them anywhere. They were still on earth where they were before the attack.
If I understand you correctly, then you are wrong. We see the party at the end of the animation standing in space about to be hit by the supernova. A literal account of the animation would go as I described, which is impossible so the only way to make sense of teh thing is to call it an animation. Another thing I notice is that Sephiroth fades away before the attack, adding more evidence that the attack is illusionary.
Then I guess we can pass of Zell's attack as an illusion too. That's the only logical explanation because he sure can't actually run that fast.
This is simply not true. There is another explantion: That he is actually that fast. 😐
You havn't even begun to prove that second sentence btw.
OR, we could accept the fact that battle animations are a lot of times exaggerated. It happens all the time. There are at least 349829634 battle animations per game that are exaggerated.
That doesn't mean that they don't have basis in fact. Actually it proves the opposite. To exaggerate requires that there be something to exaggerate in the first place. Look to my pokemon explanation for more on that fact.
No, there is no flash of light of any kind. She simply punches the ground and it explodes. If your talking about that red flash, that's just the limit break animation.
You mean the limit brakes which often utilise magic without using Materia? The fact that we see little explosions from the line prove that its not purely physical, becuase they would be impossible to do without magic.
It most certainly isn't. So you are saying that, while they do it in FF4, FF8 is different in the fact that they have the characters use attacks that they normally wouldn't use? FF8 is unique like that, huh? I'd be interested in seeing your evidence supporting that.
I've given it to you already. I can make Squall kill Rinoa even though he loves her. Heck, I can make him kill himself, despite that a large part of his character is how scared he is about dying. I can make a smart character do something unbelievably thick or vice versa. Personality and free will have no place in the FF8 fights. The actual characters on teh other hand....
Squall destroys the world. That's my point. Oh wait, he doesn't? Then he doesn't actually do that with his attack.
No he doesn't. 😬 In fact in Dissidia even when he presses the beam right up to the floor it does jack diddly and in FF8 he gets it nowhere near the ground. It doesn't even scorch it, so it obviously wouldn't do much even if it did hit someone.
I don't know what you are talking about here, but I bet whatever it is isn't Canon.
Dissidia. Which is totally canon Scream! 😒
Oh joy! So Squall can do a battle animation in TWO games? My word! That MUST mean it's true! Not TWO games, you say?
mmm If I'm not mistaken, thats looks to be sarcasm. You rogue, are you making fun of me! Now that's just not quite cricket.
And look at Blasting Zone in Dissidia anyway. Doesn't look much like it did in FF8 does it?
He doesn't charge it up so much so its smaller. Also, stylistic differences mean nothing.
No, normal people do not. Garden in particular has MOST of it's students using swords and such, unless you want to claim ALL of them are super human too. And no, they don't rely on super powered protagonists to protect them from the monsters because there isn't enough super powered protagonists to do it.
Yes (most human enemies use guns), yes (don't quote me on it though, but I think they are) and yes there are (Seed is a mercenary organisation).
No, I assume his team mates can do it too. Or is Squall the only one?
He's the only one who does it on-screen.
Why not?
Humans and huge falls don't mix.
Sorry about the double post.
You have clearly messed with my head in some way so I fruedian slipped this line-
'A literal account of the animation would go as I described, which is impossible so the only way to make sense of teh thing is to call it an animation.'
Obviously I mean illusion at the end and if you smart off about it so help me god, one of these days... Right to the Moon!
Originally posted by Nephthys
The scene in question is at 4.00. Zell is only told where the missles are actually going at 4.10. Selphie makes her comment at 4.23, so Zell would have had only about 10 seconds to get there and get out, when it takes him 5 seconds to power up 'My Final Heaven' each time. He would have had no time. Notice, btw, that the guy speaks each line, so the timing is correct. Notice also that they are in the middle of nowhere with no knowledge of their relation to Trabia, so Zell has no idea of which direction to run in.I rest my case. Next scene.
Those missiles aren't flying very fast. Even with a short charge up time, Zell would easily be able to pass them up with time to spare.
And AGAIN. Why didn't they send him to Balamb? He could have made the trip much faster than the others, and all they wanted to do was warn them. Even if Zell didn't know exactly where either Garden was from there, he could have found out pretty quick. Admit it, it doesn't fit.
Originally posted by Nephthys
If I understand you correctly, then you are wrong. We see the party at the end of the animation standing in space about to be hit by the supernova. A literal account of the animation would go as I described, which is impossible so the only way to make sense of teh thing is to call it an animation. Another thing I notice is that Sephiroth fades away before the attack, adding more evidence that the attack is illusionary.
No they aren't, they are simply standing in a black area. The camera even zooms in on the earth before cutting back to them. And no, Sephiroth doesn't fade away at the end. As I see it, he goes into the fire with them.
Originally posted by Nephthys
This is simply not true. There is another explantion: That he is actually that fast. 😐
Well, yeah. There is also an explanation that little worms inhabited their brains and they were tripping out every time that animation plays, but those two just don't make any sense.
Originally posted by Nephthys
That doesn't mean that they don't have basis in fact. Actually it proves the opposite. To exaggerate requires that there be something to exaggerate in the first place. Look to my pokemon explanation for more on that fact.
Sure. I fully believe that Zell has the ability to punch someone. Probably pretty fast, too. Run around the world in 8 seconds speed, however, no.
Originally posted by Nephthys
You mean the limit brakes which often utilise magic without using Materia? The fact that we see little explosions from the line prove that its not purely physical, becuase they would be impossible to do without magic.
Okay, first off the little explosions mean nothing. It's a shock wave. That does not require magic to make at all. Just a really strong blow.
Second, let's first assume that somehow magic WAS involved, though I don't see how a case can be made for that. Even if I granted that, why didn't she use the same spell to break out of her ropes? That argument would still apply. Either way, it falls short of any rational explanation.
Originally posted by Nephthys
I've given it to you already. I can make Squall kill Rinoa even though he loves her. Heck, I can make him kill himself, despite that a large part of his character is how scared he is about dying. I can make a smart character do something unbelievably thick or vice versa. Personality and free will have no place in the FF8 fights. The actual characters on teh other hand....
Yeah, because the fights are not actually how things are unfolding, obviously. You can make Squall kill Rinoa all you want, that doesn't mean it actually happened. Just like they aren't actually waiting turns to attack, or standing there while enemies power up spells.
The battle system is a game mechanic, and is completely separate from the actual plot.
Originally posted by Nephthys
No he doesn't. 😬 In fact in Dissidia even when he presses the beam right up to the floor it does jack diddly and in FF8 he gets it nowhere near the ground. It doesn't even scorch it, so it obviously wouldn't do much even if it did hit someone.
What? It wouldn't do much? It only kills monsters, but hey. That obviously has no effect on anything else.
It slices right through the ground, even in Dissidia. Anything that get's hit by it is getting sliced, and a lot of things are getting hit by it. It goes halfway across a continent. That's a lot of collateral damage.
And by the way. It cannot be just because he didn't charge it as much. We see a TON of attacks from the characters that look NOTHING like they did in the original game. Zidane's Grand Lethal, which used to be a big explosion of death, is now, like, a purple dash attack. Was it because he just didn't charge it up enough? Or is it because it's a battle animation and wasn't suppose to be taken 100% as fact.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Dissidia. Which is totally canon Scream! 😒
I'm not convinced of that. Reviewing that quote, I don't know if that's what he said.
Originally posted by Nephthys
mmm If I'm not mistaken, thats looks to be sarcasm. You rogue, are you making fun of me! Now that's just not quite cricket.
😇 Make fun of you my good man? Absurd!
Originally posted by Nephthys
He's the only one who does it on-screen.
Zell hops off a cliff with him. And I think people would be taking a lot more notice of Squall if that were true. I mean being the top of your class is one thing. Doing Dissidia feats while no one else can is quite another.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Humans and huge falls don't mix.
They seem to in Dissidia.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Sorry about the double post.You have clearly messed with my head in some way so I fruedian slipped this line-
'A literal account of the animation would go as I described, which is impossible so the only way to make sense of teh thing is to call it an animation.'Obviously I mean illusion at the end and if you smart off about it so help me god, one of these days... Right to the Moon!
😖hifty: Are you sure? You don't think maybe your subconscious was trying to get through, a little, hmm? Maybe deep down you know the truth, you just aren't able to admit it.
That's okay. We've made progress today.
Originally posted by TacDavey
Okay, first off the little explosions mean nothing. It's a shock wave. That does not require magic to make at all. Just a really strong blow.Second, let's first assume that somehow magic WAS involved, though I don't see how a case can be made for that. Even if I granted that, why didn't she use the same spell to break out of her ropes? That argument would still apply. Either way, it falls short of any rational explanation.
I see you guys are talking a lot about those Limit Breaks, I post a video.
Tac, what Nephthys is probably saying, is that Yuffie is using Materia to perform that Limit Break 'Landscaper'. Because that's the only logical explanation.
Originally posted by GrieverSquall
I see you guys are talking a lot about those Limit Breaks, I post a video.Tac, what Nephthys is probably saying, is that Yuffie is using Materia to perform that Limit Break 'Landscaper'. Because that's the only logical explanation.
But you are presupposing information that is not there. There is no evidence that Yuffie is using materia. There is no spell being cast, she simply punches the ground.
Originally posted by TacDavey
But you are presupposing information that is not there. There is no evidence that Yuffie is using materia. There is no spell being cast, she simply punches the ground.
No, I'm not. I'm just guessing THAT is what Nephthys is probably thinking or trying to say. I don't know.
Originally posted by GrieverSquall
Indeed... I suppose there's not evidence to back the claim that Yuffie is using a Materia to perform that Limit Break.
Exactly my point. It is just a speculation brought forth because it hurts his case.
Not that it really matters anyway. Ganon (the original point of this thread) can't be killed with a punch anyway, so it doesn't even matter.
Originally posted by TacDavey
Exactly my point. It is just a speculation brought forth because it hurts his case.
Well, we can't talk much about speculations, because all of us we're using speculations as well to debate. He suggests that Yuffie is using Materia to perform the Limit Break because that's the only way it can be logical. It's not a bad claim. Loz did something similar in the movie (When he punched the ground) and I think he was using Materia to do it as well as using Materia to increase his speed while running. Rather than speculations, he's using logic which isn't bad (Correct me if I'm wrong, Nephthys).
Originally posted by GrieverSquall
Well, we can't talk much about speculations, because all of us we're using speculations as well to debate. He suggests that Yuffie is using Materia to perform the Limit Break because that's the only way it can be logical. It's not a bad claim. Loz did something similar in the movie (When he punched the ground) and I think he was using Materia to do it as well as using Materia to increase his speed while running. Rather than speculations, he's using logic which isn't bad (Correct me if I'm wrong, Nephthys).
But again, there is no evidence for that. It's nothing but a "maybe", nothing but an idea.
And even if I give him that one, it doesn't discredit the rest of my examples.
Originally posted by TacDavey
But again, there is no evidence for that. It's nothing but a "maybe", nothing but an idea.And even if I give him that one, it doesn't discredit the rest of my examples.
Indeed.
Just saying... Is not a bad claim after all.
There are elements that can support it. I'll leave it to him anyway. Don't worry.