Tac, I think that you should read the rules.
12. Certain characters are known to be omnipotent or invulnerable canonically. Examples of such are Pyron, whose actual limitations are not known, Pyramid Head, who is essentially an incorporeal manifestation of psycological issues, and Ganon, who cannot be defeated without the Master Sword and/or Light Arrows.
It seems that character can only be killed or defeated by having that sword. So this thread is a bit pointless.
Sorry for the long wait, my internets have been dead.
Those missiles aren't flying very fast. Even with a short charge up time, Zell would easily be able to pass them up with time to spare.
Re-read my post: 'Zell is only told where the missles are actually going at 4.10. Selphie makes her comment at 4.23 ("That was a miss, right"😉, so Zell would have had only about 10 seconds to get there and get out, when it takes him 5 seconds to power up 'My Final Heaven' each time. He would have had no time.'
And AGAIN. Why didn't they send him to Balamb? He could have made the trip much faster than the others, and all they wanted to do was warn them. Even if Zell didn't know exactly where either Garden was from there, he could have found out pretty quick. Admit it, it doesn't fit.
Listen, this is called PIS (or CIS, character inducted stupidity). On top of what Sin said it describes when a character is seemingly deprived of their common-sense to forward the plot. This is why Ultimecia, whose entire motive behind Time Compression is that she finds out Squall kills her, and can travel through time, doesn't simply go and kill him when he was a baby. Or why she doesn't just possess him and make him stab himself. Or a myriade of other ways she could easily dispose of the party. Or in Dissidia when she doesn't rip his head off while he's frozen in time, or when he thinks she's Cosmos. There are simply thousands of examples of PIS, none of which detract from something that has already happened. The single bit of plot inconsistency you've given can easily be explained by the party being thick, the writers being thick (or not checking with other departments) or that Zell simply hadn't manifested that power yet.
No they aren't, they are simply standing in a black area. The camera even zooms in on the earth before cutting back to them. And no, Sephiroth doesn't fade away at the end. As I see it, he goes into the fire with them.
They are clearly standing in or behind one of the detroyed planets, due to the debree (sp?). Also, they are hit directly after earths destruction, showing I was right in my estimate he teleports them behind it. And he fades away at the start of the animation, right before reality literally crumbles away.
Well, yeah. There is also an explanation that little worms inhabited their brains and they were tripping out every time that animation plays, but those two just don't make any sense.
No, your one makes no sense, since it has no supporting evidence. My one actually has visual proof.
Sure. I fully believe that Zell has the ability to punch someone. Probably pretty fast, too. Run around the world in 8 seconds speed, however, no.
Then you are ignoring what we see happen on-screen.
Okay, first off the little explosions mean nothing. It's a shock wave. That does not require magic to make at all. Just a really strong blow.
Shockwaves do not make the ground balloon and explode. And we have lots of examples of limit brakes encorporating magic without needing materia.
Second, let's first assume that somehow magic WAS involved, though I don't see how a case can be made for that. Even if I granted that, why didn't she use the same spell to break out of her ropes? That argument would still apply. Either way, it falls short of any rational explanation.
That would probably explode right in her face as well. Also, a healthy dose of PIS and if someones done something then they can do it even if they 'forget' they can.
Tac, what Nephthys is probably saying, is that Yuffie is using Materia to perform that Limit Break 'Landscaper'. Because that's the only logical explanation.
Yep.
But you are presupposing information that is not there. There is no evidence that Yuffie is using materia. There is no spell being cast, she simply punches the ground.
Except that she defies the rules of physics in ways that can't be written off as 'stylised'. The only explanation thet makes sense is magic.
Exactly my point. It is just a speculation brought forth because it hurts his case.
The irony is killing me. 😐
But again, there is no evidence for that.
Its called logic. Remember that thing? (no offence)
Yeah, because the fights are not actually how things are unfolding, obviously. You can make Squall kill Rinoa all you want, that doesn't mean it actually happened. Just like they aren't actually waiting turns to attack, or standing there while enemies power up spells.The battle system is a game mechanic, and is completely separate from the actual plot.
That belongs under gameplay machanic and battle animation shows what characters can reasonably perform, supported by the interface explanations, which fall under the creators explicit wishes just like, say, pokemon attack descriptions. Plus FF battle animations are really minature cutscenes as well.
What? It wouldn't do much? It only kills monsters, but hey. That obviously has no effect on anything else.
It hurts them, in an unquantifiable way.
It slices right through the ground, even in Dissidia. Anything that get's hit by it is getting sliced, and a lot of things are getting hit by it. It goes halfway across a continent. That's a lot of collateral damage.
I call bull on that. See the last part for why.
And by the way. It cannot be just because he didn't charge it as much. We see a TON of attacks from the characters that look NOTHING like they did in the original game. Zidane's Grand Lethal, which used to be a big explosion of death, is now, like, a purple dash attack. Was it because he just didn't charge it up enough? Or is it because it's a battle animation and wasn't suppose to be taken 100% as fact.
stylistic differences mean nothing.
Also, if it really does look nothing like the original then its a different attack with the same name, or perhaps the natural evolution of the powers, like Squall might be condensing the energy into a smaller blade or something. Either way it has little bearing on our argument.
Make fun of you my good man? Absurd!
Well I do declare! My mistake old boy, my mistake.
So....... at the moment it stands that Ganon wins, right?
Nah man. Nah.
Originally posted by TacDavey
I'll ask again. Where do you get the idea that Adel is more powerful than Ganon?
Adel couldn't be defeated by anyone in the world even with GFs. She had to be sealed and was only defeated by Squall & friends because she wasn't at full power. Ganon was killed by the Master Sword and Light Arrows.
AND where do you get the idea that Adel can somehow hurt Ganon without the Master Sword?
Link hurt Ganon with the Magical Sword, Megaton Hammer/Biggoron Sword, and even regular arrows.
Adel couldn't be stopped even though GFs can make users into superhumans and give them magic. Adel would own the Zelda universe.
And again with the giant list of responses, I'm not going to reply to each of them individually.
Nephthys:
You claim that it is more rational to assume that either Zell or the developers where simply idiots, rather than assuming that a battle animation is not completely accurate, as we know many of them aren't.
I disagree. It is far more rational to assume My Final Heaven is simply an exaggerated attack, rather than Zell really CAN run super speed, and is just an idiot not to do so.
The difference between My Final Heaven and the other examples of PIS or PH you gave is that the other examples were supported by the plot where as My Final Heaven is not.
My Final Heaven, and Zell's supposed super speed, are ONLY supported by that one instance in a battle animation. So while the other examples are inescapable, My Final Heaven is easily explained.
As for Super Nova, they are not standing behind a planet. They never moved. The scene zooms back in on earth, where they are, right before earth get's destroyed. The area around them is black because they are, what, in the middle of the earth or something? The chunks of rock you see flying are bits of rubble as the world around them is being destroyed.
Sephiroth never teleports. The breaking glass effect in the beginning is only meant to serve as a scene change to show the meteor coming down. There is never any evidence that anyone ever moved at any time during that attack.
As for Squall's Blasting Zone, you made some claim that it hurts monsters but somehow doesn't hurt anything else. I don't understand this. What ever that energy blade hits is taking damage. That's kinda the point of the attack. We can even see this in Dissidia, if you really want to go there. The attack leaves a cut through the ground along it's path. Bottom line, that attack slices what it hits, and in the FF8 version it hits a lot of things.
You then tried to claim that the change of battle animations was simply, a brand new attack with the same name, or a natural evolution of the attack, which simply doesn't make sense. If the developers wanted a brand new attack, they would give it a brand new name. That's like taking Lionheart and having it become a fire spell. It makes absolutely no sense to do that.
Nor does it make sense that it's some kind of "evolution". As far as I know, explosions of death do not evolve into little purple dash attacks.
The obvious explanation, of course, is that it's a battle animation, isn't suppose to be taken as 100% fact, and can thus be changed at any time to fit whatever the developers want.
You then make the claim that FF7 characters could cast spells without materia needed. As far as I know, this is false. Materia allows the user to manipulate nature, that's how "magic" is used. This can't be done without materia. If we see characters performing magic without materia, it is likely because it's a battle animation, and separate from the plot.
Tifa, at least, learned her attacks without materia, simply be training with an old guy. But they are just as over the top as Yuffie's.
And again, it doesn't combat my other examples.
Sin Volvagia:
You claim that Adel is more powerful than Ganon simply because no one could defeat her. This obviously doesn't make sense, because no one could defeat Ganon either. Only the power of the sages and the master sword could do that.
As far as I see, no relation can be made between the two, since we know practically nothing of Adel. And what we DO know doesn't place her above Ganon at all.