Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Retcon.Show me Holy being super effective against evil?
The dragon is evil
Originally posted by Sin_Volvagia
The Silver Arrows kill Ganon. The Light Arrows are weaker than Holy
Okay... evidence please. You know, it takes more than simply saying something to make it viable evidence. For instance, I could say "Ganon is more powerful than every character ever." but that doesn't show he is, now does it? You want to claim Holy is stronger than light arrows? You must provide evidence. Here's some, however. Light Arrows kill practically everything in one shot. Holy? Not so much.
Oh, and the silver arrows argument has been addressed.
Originally posted by Sin_Volvagia
All it does is absorb light, shoot weak magic projectiles, and travel through time in the Temple of Time. Oh and it can protect the user from some curses and Telekinesis but its not a strong sword when compared to Soul Calibur, Soul Edge, Dragon Sword, Blades of Athena, Rebellion, Buster Sword, etc.
Again, what makes you say that? The sword has the power to destroy evil. I'd say Soul Edge fits that category. The Buster Sword is nothing but a big metal sword. There is nothing special about it at all.
The Master Sword is a magic sword that destroys evil.
Originally posted by Sin_Volvagia
Adel couldn't be stopped by GFs. Ganon with the Triforce was defeated by knights and old sages.
The Sages are quit powerful. They hold the power to seal Ganon away, so yeah, I'd say when you have some people with the power to seal you away... you're probably going to get sealed away.
The FF8 party has no such power.
Originally posted by Sin_Volvagia
But they are still weaker.
In what way? Physically? Like I said, they are not the same. The Sages don't fight, they simply have holy power. Comparing the two is pointless. The sages posses the power to seal Ganon away. The FF8 party does not.
Originally posted by TacDavey
Okay... evidence please. You know, it takes more than simply saying something to make it viable evidence. For instance, I could say "Ganon is more powerful than every character ever." but that doesn't show he is, now does it? You want to claim Holy is stronger than light arrows? You must provide evidence. Here's some, however. Light Arrows kill practically everything in one shot. Holy? Not so much.
Zelda enemies are weaker than FF enemies.
The Sages are quit powerful. They hold the power to seal Ganon away, so yeah, I'd say when you have some people with the power to seal you away... you're probably going to get sealed away.The FF8 party has no such power.
Omega Weapon and Ultimecia are far greater threats than Ganon.
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
For the record, the Master sword has the power of the goddesses channelled to it directly via the prayers of the sages, and is stated to be a direct failsafe for the triforce itself. 😐 The master sword's one of the most powerful swords in VG versus.
The Master Sword has shown no uber power. One of the most powerful swords in VG versus? My ass.
Soul Edge has shown corrupting the world, turning people into monsters, corrupting people into shards, make large explosions, and drain the life of the user (unless it grant the user power). It also shapeshifts into other weapons.
Soul Calibur is pretty much equal to Soul Edge but with opposite effects.
The Blade of Olympus was used to defeat the Titans (one of the largest race of beings in fiction) and defeated armies with just a swing.
The Sword of Mana is powerful enough for one to restore balance to the world or become its ruler.
Sparda was used to seal the demon world and defeat the Emperor of Hell. It gave Dante the strongest Devil Trigger in the series (flight, long range spectral sword, rapid-fire energy blasts, summon spectral dragons). Sanctus wielding the blade had shown Soul Calibur-like effects (though no shape-shifting or enviromental effects).
Yamato can cut through virtually anything and is capable of even cutting through dimensions. It can also open portals to the demon world.
The Master Sword pales in comparison to any of them.
Originally posted by TacDavey
You want to claim Holy is stronger than light arrows? You must provide evidence. Here's some, however. Light Arrows kill practically everything in one shot. Holy? Not so much.
Sorry for interrupt, I don't really wanna debate this and I don't know anything about Zelda. But what you say is not evidence against Holy, that's just evidence of the Light Arrows in being able to do something. Because those Light Arrows or whatever those things are kills basically everything in the Zelda Universe, does not mean it will kill everything with one shot in other series or Universes, you sound biased.
Originally posted by TacDavey
The Sages are quit powerful. They hold the power to seal Ganon away, so yeah, I'd say when you have some people with the power to seal you away... you're probably going to get sealed away.The FF8 party has no such power.
Who is Ganon? A Sorcerer? Warrior? What is he?
Who cares if they can seal someone?
Of course not, they can't seal a person. It's like saying that the Final Fantasy VIII party can summon GFs, I'm sure those people can't do it. Therefore they doesn't have such power either. However, they all are super-humans. What makes you think that guy can against six super-humans? I don't know him so please provide logic.
Originally posted by TacDavey
Again, what makes you say that? The sword has the power to destroy evil. I'd say Soul Edge fits that category. The Buster Sword is nothing but a big metal sword. There is nothing special about it at all.The Master Sword is a magic sword that destroys evil.
The warrior is more important that the weapon.
Either way, that guy can be killed just by that sword and only by that sword, so this is a bit pointless. It's a rule for its own Universe. It's like Ultimecia that can be killed only by Squall or if Squall's there. Those are rules for each Universes. Besides, the Ganon guy has been added to the rules of this forum. You should read, Tac.
Originally posted by GrieverSquall
[Sorry for interrupt, I don't really wanna debate this and I don't know anything about Zelda. But what you say is not evidence against Holy, that's just evidence of the Light Arrows in being able to do something. Because those Light Arrows or whatever those things are kills basically everything in the Zelda Universe, does not mean it will kill everything with one shot in other series or Universes, you sound biased.
The Light Arrows tend to disintegrate creatures or convert them into light for an instant-kill.
3:44
Who is Ganon? A Sorcerer? Warrior? What is he?
Who cares if they can seal someone?
Tough to say. He has a lot of titles. He's been called a sorceror, wizard, Demon Thief, etc. Regardless, he's got a lot of magic and is very physically powerful. Also, ridiculous toughness.
2:17-3:10
That's once he gained the Triforce of Power.
Of course not, they can't seal a person. It's like saying that the Final Fantasy VIII party can summon GFs, I'm sure those people can't do it. Therefore they doesn't have such power either. However, they all are super-humans. What makes you think that guy can against six super-humans? I don't know him so please provide logic.
Basic gist of this scene: Ganon's body has been destroyed (by the Master Sword, no less) but his giant floating spirit head is still good for a fight. Midna attacks him, the castle explodes. Less than a few seconds laters, Ganondorf is back with a new body, and even made himself a horse. He then crushes the ancient artifacts that Midna was using with one hand.
But he's got other abilities, including invisibility, intangibility, clairvoyance, teleportation, long ranged spellcasting, and a few others. He's a great swordsman, able to dual wield katanas as well as a single sword, and he's got a Trident of Darkness.
The warrior is more important that the weapon.
Either way, that guy can be killed just by that sword and only by that sword, so this is a bit pointless. It's a rule for its own Universe. It's like Ultimecia that can be killed only by Squall or if Squall's there. Those are rules for each Universes. Besides, the Ganon guy has been added to the rules of this forum. You should read, Tac.
Not necessarily true, but it's difficult to explain. In OoT, Ganondorf was stabbed in the head with the Master Sword, but did not die. Instead, he was sealed. In Wind Waker, he was again impaled through the skull, and was turned to stone, death unconfirmed. In Twilight Princess, he was stabbed in the chest, and seemingly died. In AlttP, the Master Sword couldn't kill Ganon, but removed his defenses so the Silver Arrows could.
In short, sometimes even the Master Sword doesn't work. Sometimes, it does. Ganondorf's immortality and immunity is so complete that even the thing designed to kill him can't get the job done on occasion.
Originally posted by Sin_Volvagia
Zelda enemies are weaker than FF enemies.
Wow... I'll say it again. Evidence please! Remember the talk about how saying things does not actually help show they are true?
Originally posted by Sin_Volvagia
Omega Weapon and Ultimecia are far greater threats than Ganon.
Evidence please. Ganon wields the Triforce of Power. No one can stand up to him, save the sages and the other two Triforce Wielders. Even [SPOILER ALERT] the ancient dark power that Midna pieced back together wasn't enough to even scratch him, and that was pretty potent stuff. The Twilight People where sealed away for even dabbling in the stuff. [END SPOILERS]
Originally posted by Sin_Volvagia
The Master Sword has shown no uber power. One of the most powerful swords in VG versus? My ass.Soul Edge has shown corrupting the world, turning people into monsters, corrupting people into shards, make large explosions, and drain the life of the user (unless it grant the user power). It also shapeshifts into other weapons.
Soul Calibur is pretty much equal to Soul Edge but with opposite effects.
The Blade of Olympus was used to defeat the Titans (one of the largest race of beings in fiction) and defeated armies with just a swing.
The Sword of Mana is powerful enough for one to restore balance to the world or become its ruler.
Sparda was used to seal the demon world and defeat the Emperor of Hell. It gave Dante the strongest Devil Trigger in the series (flight, long range spectral sword, rapid-fire energy blasts, summon spectral dragons). Sanctus wielding the blade had shown Soul Calibur-like effects (though no shape-shifting or enviromental effects).
Yamato can cut through virtually anything and is capable of even cutting through dimensions. It can also open portals to the demon world.
The Master Sword pales in comparison to any of them.
The Master Sword doesn't cut time, or cause earthquakes. So what? That's not what it takes to be a powerful weapon. The Master Sword kills evil. It does it well, and it does it often. Pretty much any evil you pit against it is going down, granted the wielder has enough skill to use it. It killed Ganondorf, pretty much one of the most powerful beings in the LoZ universe, when nothing else could. And you want to ignore all that because it doesn't show big explosions when you swing it, or it can't open portals? There is more to being a powerful weapon than the ability to make big, flashy, special effects.
Originally posted by BloodRain
All the Master Sword does is repel evil. From reflecting evil magic projectiles to protecting the user from evil abilities. IIRC its not even physically the strongest sword in the LoZ world.So does Holy work or not?
No. Holy does not work. There is nothing to suggest it would do anything more than what the Light Arrows do. And that is stretching it. I'm not even sure it would do THAT.
Originally posted by GrieverSquall
Sorry for interrupt, I don't really wanna debate this and I don't know anything about Zelda. But what you say is not evidence against Holy, that's just evidence of the Light Arrows in being able to do something. Because those Light Arrows or whatever those things are kills basically everything in the Zelda Universe, does not mean it will kill everything with one shot in other series or Universes, you sound biased.
We have to assume that they do, or at least would still be pretty damaging. You can't discredit something because it happened in another world, or all of these debates would be completely pointless unless the characters in question came from the same universe.
The Light Arrows aren't arrows that have the ability to kill anything in one shot. They simply do so because they are powerful. They pretty much vaporize enemies in Wind Waker. Besides the Master Sword, they are one of the strongest light weapons in the LoZ universe, so if THEY don't hurt Ganon, Holy doesn't.
Originally posted by GrieverSquall
Who is Ganon? A Sorcerer? Warrior? What is he?
Who cares if they can seal someone?Of course not, they can't seal a person. It's like saying that the Final Fantasy VIII party can summon GFs, I'm sure those people can't do it. Therefore they doesn't have such power either. However, they all are super-humans. What makes you think that guy can against six super-humans? I don't know him so please provide logic.
Okay, really quickly summarized. Ganon (or Ganondorf) is an extremely powerful dark sorcerer from the desert. Even before the Triforce, he was hailed for his incredible power, and we can see it in some of the things he does before, or around the beginning of The Legend of Zelda Ocarina of Time. Then, he get's the Triforce of Power. I'm not going into all the details, but it's pretty much the most powerful thing ever in the LoZ universe. He takes over Hyrule, Plunges the world into darkness, and pretty much can't be stopped by anyone other than the other Triforce Wielders (Link and Zelda) who are also backed by the Master Sword, Light Arrows, and all the sages. And that is only the events of Ocarina of Time. That's not including all he does in other Zelda titles.
Originally posted by GrieverSquall
The warrior is more important that the weapon.
Yes, normally you would be right, however when you start getting into magical weapons the weapon itself starts becoming a little more important. Overall still weighing on the wielder, but you can no longer simply ignore the weapon.
Originally posted by GrieverSquall
Either way, that guy can be killed just by that sword and only by that sword, so this is a bit pointless. It's a rule for its own Universe. It's like Ultimecia that can be killed only by Squall or if Squall's there. Those are rules for each Universes. Besides, the Ganon guy has been added to the rules of this forum. You should read, Tac.
I should read what? I know we aren't debating as if it's impossible for the FF party to kill Ganon. If we WHERE no one would be here right now, because there would be no debate. Ganon wins, hands down.
But that doesn't mean that knowing Ganon cannot originally be defeated by anything other than the Master Sword isn't still important to the discussion. It still provides a good example of Ganon's power.
Originally posted by Sin_VolvagiaAny of them equal to the triforce? No? Then what they do is irrelevant, they do it on a smaller scale.
Zelda enemies are weaker than FF enemies.Omega Weapon and Ultimecia are far greater threats than Ganon.
The Master Sword has shown no uber power. One of the most powerful swords in VG versus? My ass.
Soul Edge has shown corrupting the world, turning people into monsters, corrupting people into shards, make large explosions, and drain the life of the user (unless it grant the user power). It also shapeshifts into other weapons.
Soul Calibur is pretty much equal to Soul Edge but with opposite effects.
The Blade of Olympus was used to defeat the Titans (one of the largest race of beings in fiction) and defeated armies with just a swing.
The Sword of Mana is powerful enough for one to restore balance to the world or become its ruler.
Sparda was used to seal the demon world and defeat the Emperor of Hell. It gave Dante the strongest Devil Trigger in the series (flight, long range spectral sword, rapid-fire energy blasts, summon spectral dragons). Sanctus wielding the blade had shown Soul Calibur-like effects (though no shape-shifting or enviromental effects).
Yamato can cut through virtually anything and is capable of even cutting through dimensions. It can also open portals to the demon world.
The Master Sword pales in comparison to any of them.
Originally posted by TacDavey
Wow... I'll say it again. Evidence please! Remember the talk about how saying things does not actually help show they are true?
Try comparing Stalfos, Iron Knuckle, and Moblins to armed soldiers, Iron Giant, and Malboro.
Evidence please. Ganon wields the Triforce of Power. No one can stand up to him, save the sages and the other two Triforce Wielders. Even [SPOILER ALERT] the ancient dark power that Midna pieced back together wasn't enough to even scratch him, and that was pretty potent stuff. The Twilight People where sealed away for even dabbling in the stuff. [END SPOILERS]
Cute. Ultimecia can possess people from the past, make a GF out of a fear from someone's mind, invent magics from her own mind, stop bullets, and stop time. With Time Compression, she absorbs time and space and eventually become omnipotent. The Triforce of Power has nothing on that.
The Master Sword doesn't cut time, or cause earthquakes. So what? That's not what it takes to be a powerful weapon. The Master Sword kills evil. It does it well, and it does it often.
Vampire Killer does a better job at that and it's a whip.
Pretty much any evil you pit against it is going down, granted the wielder has enough skill to use it. It killed Ganondorf, pretty much one of the most powerful beings in the LoZ universe, when nothing else could. And you want to ignore all that because it doesn't show big explosions when you swing it, or it can't open portals? There is more to being a powerful weapon than the ability to make big, flashy, special effects.
Good against evil or not, it still takes a couple of hits to kill a humanoid enemy.
No. Holy does not work. There is nothing to suggest it would do anything more than what the Light Arrows do. And that is stretching it. I'm not even sure it would do THAT.
Holy will work as it does damage pure evil enemies more (like Neo Exdeath).
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Any of them equal to the triforce? No? Then what they do is irrelevant, they do it on a smaller scale.
The Master Sword doesn't have the power of the Triforce.
Originally posted by Sin_VolvagiaLink only has the triforce in aLttP, after already having beaten Ganon.
Then why doesn't Link wish away Ganon or any of that Trueforce crap your lollovelink buddies keep mentioning?
If you're implying he can use the sword to do so, it's because being as powerful as something doesn't give you the same powerset. The sword's powers are on the scale of the triforce, they do not have the same powers.
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Link only has the triforce in aLttP, after already having beaten Ganon.If you're implying he can use the sword to do so, it's because being as powerful as something doesn't give you the same powerset. The sword's powers are on the scale of the triforce, they do not have the same powers.
Trueforce Ganon was beaten by a group of knights and sealed away by sages. I guess the Master Sword isn't that powerful.
Originally posted by Sin_VolvagiaOh look, that argument we keep sinking. The master sword was present. I win. Also, note how giving a failsafe the same abusable power as the triforce would be counterproductive.
Trueforce Ganon was beaten by a group of knights and sealed away by sages. I guess the Master Sword isn't that powerful.