Originally posted by Burning thought
If its not physical then durability is not even a factor, as I said.Yes it would if she was ignorant to him being untouchable, and her weapon is not necesserily enitrely physical, infact I am pretty certain its more magical than physical.
Nah, and your missing the point. And btw Ganon being an NPC does not exclude him from being gameplay so I dont know what your trying to claim here....
When has he Tked more than one enemy scream?
Obviously, but silly idea is still silly.
So now you think that he is intangible, and that the weapon itself is more magical than physical. Why are you arguing?
Sorry, but that is what your Kain argument is based on. You know, that he can think, perceive and move in like...I don't even know the number. The point is that you personally do not need anything, so don't ask for it.
Midna + Light Spirit.
Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Obviously, but silly idea is still silly.So now you think that he is intangible, and that the weapon itself is more magical than physical. Why are you arguing?
Sorry, but that is what your Kain argument is based on. You know, that he can think, perceive and move in like...I don't even know the number. The point is that you personally do not need anything, so don't ask for it.
Midna + Light Spirit.
No not really, that was kinda the idea.
Because we dont actually see it connect, and if he is not physical then the pressure even if we assume it was from him being struck is irrelevent.
No, its based on a scripted ability, its not a "gameplay mechanic" like an NPC reacting to blows/strikes for the sake of gameplay.
I dont recall him doing it to them at the same time, show vid again plz+time he does it.
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
TP.Zant beats the light spirit, Link, and Midna simultaneously.
I do not recall him picking them up and hold them simultaneously if your talking about when he places a object in Links head.
Originally posted by Burning thought
No not really, that was kinda the idea.Because we dont actually see it connect, and if he is not physical then the pressure even if we assume it was from him being struck is irrelevent.
No, its based on a scripted ability, its not a "gameplay mechanic" like an NPC reacting to blows/strikes for the sake of gameplay.
I dont recall him doing it to them at the same time, show vid again plz+time he does it.
No, it's definitely a stupid idea.
But if it's magical, surely magic can affect the immaterial.
Ganon being able to block it is a scripted ability. The only difference between it and Kain's move is that Ganon is an NPC.
You've seen the whole thing. He TK's them both when he turns Midna into a creature of the Light World which makes her pink and black. Remember when the big snake came out of the water with a ball of light in it's mouth? That was Zant.
Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
No, it's definitely a stupid idea.But if it's magical, surely magic can affect the immaterial.
Ganon being able to block it is a scripted ability. The only difference between it and Kain's move is that Ganon is an NPC.
You've seen the whole thing. He TK's them both when he turns Midna into a creature of the Light World which makes her pink and black. Remember when the big snake came out of the water with a ball of light in it's mouth? That was Zant.
"possible", that does not mean the "physics" based on the castles explosions would effect the immaterial though.
And therefore he is under the effects of gameplay mechanics and balance and its not scripted per say, that is. If you dont use that move, he never reacted to it. Just like how its not canon that Kain used it at that exact moment in the game, its only canon Kain has that power.
I know, hence why I dont recall him Tking them all at once. Can you prove the creature was being Tked? and not just corrupted or something? Tk only lifts, it does not cause action.
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Hm, Ganondorf could possess the party one at a time, too. haermm
Would not be surprised if one of them can resist or protect with a spell against possession.
Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
It's really not even worth it to post to BT anymore. So I won't.
And its not even my birthday!
So, BT is now arguing that Ganondorf's head was intangible based on appearance alone in an attempt to invalidate the feat. He has also argued that Midna's attack was more magical than physical, but was still unable to strike Ganondorf. Fine, we can play that.
By BT's own argument, Ganondorf's intangibility renders him immune to magical attack. What now?
Ganondorf could simply use his Eternal Storm And Darkness Curse (which prevented the sun from rising, and prevented Link's magic from making the sun rise in Wind Waker) quickly followed by his Darkness Technique (A Link to the Past) in order to become both invisible and intangible.
Originally posted by The Scenario
So, BT is now arguing that Ganondorf's head was intangible based on appearance alone in an attempt to invalidate the feat. He has also argued that Midna's attack was more magical than physical, but was still unable to strike Ganondorf. Fine, we can play that.By BT's own argument, Ganondorf's intangibility renders him immune to magical attack. What now?
Ganondorf could simply use his Eternal Storm And Darkness Curse (which prevented the sun from rising, and prevented Link's magic from making the sun rise in Wind Waker) quickly followed by his Darkness Technique (A Link to the Past) in order to become both invisible and intangible.
Ganondorf didn't learn his technique of Darkness until he permanently became Ganon (when he got the complete Triforce).
Originally posted by The Scenario
So, BT is now arguing that Ganondorf's head was intangible based on appearance alone in an attempt to invalidate the feat. He has also argued that Midna's attack was more magical than physical, but was still unable to strike Ganondorf. Fine, we can play that.By BT's own argument, Ganondorf's intangibility renders him immune to magical attack. What now?
Ganondorf could simply use his Eternal Storm And Darkness Curse (which prevented the sun from rising, and prevented Link's magic from making the sun rise in Wind Waker) quickly followed by his Darkness Technique (A Link to the Past) in order to become both invisible and intangible.
Its not a feat, I dont care how you try and swing it, we dont see Midna strike. And I didnt "argue" it, I made a series of seperate explanations for what could have happened.
No, by my argument either her magic attack was just too weak to harm Dorf, in which case he destroyed her which collapsed his castle, or perhaps both powers destroyed the castle, or her magic created a physical shockwave which destroyed the castle but obviously did nothing to an intangible Ganon who would not be hit by said shockwave, only the magical nature of the attack.
Neither of those are going to do much, infact how long did he take to do either? he may not even be able to get any of them off before getting killed.
Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Would like to know why that matters. Wasn't aware we specified a Ganondorf at a specific point in time.Unless you're using the name as a reason. I'm comfortable with saying ScreamPaste just means Ganon as a whole when he says Ganondorf. Ganondorf is merely a cooler name.
Ganon seems to more often refer to the beast form. Which he remains in once he gains full power.
Ganons different forms cant use the same feats; TP Ganon can be knocked out or stunned by normal arrows, Ball and chain and even by being thrown to the ground. And damages by the MS and WolfLinks bites. All different to Dorf. In this instance can we really say Dorf survived the blast when he was in his dark magic ball form?
It's featless except possibly being able to withstand an exploding castle, is possibly immune to magical attack, is possibly able to destroy a castle in a second, and is possibly intangible to everything.
Every time you suggest a new possible explanation, you give Ganondorf a new feat. Midna's magical attack being too weak is your new argument. Let's go over this again: Midna, without the Fused Shadows, can TK a bridge larger than the pillar Link lifted with the Golden Gauntlets and Zant could TK her easily with Ganondorf's power. With a fraction of the power of the Fused Shadows, Midna killed Zant with a strand of her hair. Now, at full power, full transformation, Midna's magic was too weak to harm Ganondorf. Ganondorf then proves his superiority by crushing the Fused Shadows with one hand. Recall that a single Fused Shadow could tranform a pathetically weak enemy (Deku Baba) into a 30 foot 3 headed acid spewing boss monster. It's the most powerful magic the Twili can muster, and Ganondorf breaks it one handed.
Still, Ganondorf has taken a blast of fire from Valoo, the Rito's resident diety, unharmed, killed the Deku Tree and Jabu-Jabu, the Kokiri and Zora dieties, respectively. He's frozen the Zora's Domain, source of Hyrule's water, twice now and caused Death Mountain to erupt several times. He destroyed Greatfish Isle and created a storm than spanned all the Great Sea. Why is it so hard to believe that he can tank an exploding castle, or cause a castle to explode, since he's already collapsed a castle onto himself in OoT and took no damage. That one was done "with his last breath," too, and not his apparently full power like in TP.
Hell, Ganondorf's floating head form was the one that convinced Zant that he was a god.
Originally posted by The Scenario
It's featless except [b]possibly being able to withstand an exploding castle, is possibly immune to magical attack, is possibly able to destroy a castle in a second, and is possibly intangible to everything.Every time you suggest a new possible explanation, you give Ganondorf a new feat. Midna's magical attack being too weak is your new argument. Let's go over this again: Midna, without the Fused Shadows, can TK a bridge larger than the pillar Link lifted with the Golden Gauntlets and Zant could TK her easily with Ganondorf's power. With a fraction of the power of the Fused Shadows, Midna killed Zant with a strand of her hair. Now, at full power, full transformation, Midna's magic was too weak to harm Ganondorf. Ganondorf then proves his superiority by crushing the Fused Shadows with one hand. Recall that a single Fused Shadow could tranform a pathetically weak enemy (Deku Baba) into a 30 foot 3 headed acid spewing boss monster. It's the most powerful magic the Twili can muster, and Ganondorf breaks it one handed.
Still, Ganondorf has taken a blast of fire from Valoo, the Rito's resident diety, unharmed, killed the Deku Tree and Jabu-Jabu, the Kokiri and Zora dieties, respectively. He's frozen the Zora's Domain, source of Hyrule's water, twice now and caused Death Mountain to erupt several times. He destroyed Greatfish Isle and created a storm than spanned all the Great Sea. Why is it so hard to believe that he can tank an exploding castle, or cause a castle to explode, since he's already collapsed a castle onto himself in OoT and took no damage. That one was done "with his last breath," too, and not his apparently full power like in TP.
Hell, Ganondorf's floating head form was the one that convinced Zant that he was a god. [/B]
Yes, a hundred "assumptions" that I have made, this is not a feat you understand?
I dont givehim anything if its just "possible", I create a large branching number of choices that lessen the fact its a feat at all, which its not. he breaks the physical helmet one handed, not necesserily the magic.
None of that is typically imrpessive when were talking about durability, their destructive feats, if not simply unique elemental magic. And since i have not been answered or shown a feat I assume we dont see him cast any of these larger weather based spells like the storm?
How does that speak much for his durability or power?
BT also seems to think Link's just some random child, his opinions can be wholly disregarded in Zelda debates, because that's what they are: biased opinions.
Anyway; on topic.
The thing is, people keep inventing new possibilities as evidence that "we don't know what happen!!1", except all of their examples are far less likely to have happened than what we see happen directly in the cutscene itself, and the intention of the cutscene.
Fact 1. Only attack that happened came from Midna.
Fact 2. Ganon was the target.
Fact 3. Ganon was present when this attack occured.
Fact 4. The castle exploded as the result of an attack.
Fact 5. We only have one attack to work with, it was Midna's.
Fact 6. Ganon was present when Midna's attack targettign him busted a freakin' castle.
^Cutscene.
There is no other valid logical conclusion.