Mister X vs Spider-Man

Started by psycho gundam14 pages
psycho gundam The Nightmare of Solomon

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
facepalm

Fail. Epic fail.

Battlehammer Senior Member

Originally posted by h1a8

I wasn't talking about his first creation but what the original authors intended for him in the consistency of his career. Wolverine wasn't created to have super strength or speed or durability. Just an ordinary human with claws, healing factor (later), and fighting ability. This is common sense. Classic Spidey was class 8 for a long time, not class 5.


Your an idiot who talking out his ass.

He was originally intended to be spiderman level stats fact.

He consistently showed after his character development to posses super human stats fact. No he was not suposes to be an ordinary human. You have no idea what your talking about, which is clear from the ignorance spilling forth from your posts. His feats as well as statements made by character on his physical abilities were always well beyond human. This idea that his ability are within ordinary human level is a myth created by ignorant members of the board such as your self and not what has been displayed on panel.

Mindset Senior Member

Originally posted by Battlehammer

He was originally intended to be spiderman level stats fact.

I've heard this before, where are you getting it from?

Battlehammer Senior Member

Originally posted by h1a8
You guys view these fights as they would actually occur in a comic. I don't. I view them as the characters existed in real life with their understood powers and characters.e.

No you view them through your rediculous spidy googles and ignore what has consistently been shown.

Originally posted by h1a8
Spidey is far far faster than X, meaning that if he attacked, X couldn't defend, no matter if he knows what is coming. Comics don't use common sense alot for the sake of the story. But in reality we use common sens

But he not far faster, this is simply a misconception you came up with while wearing your spidy pajamas.

Battlehammer Senior Member

Originally posted by Mindset
I've heard this before, where are you getting it from?

stated in an interview by his original creator. easy way to locate the onterview I believe is in the back of the ultimate guide to the x-men updated edition.

Battlehammer Senior Member

Originally posted by namorsubby
1. that's the easiest thing to say.....

easiest thing to do, is to uses incaccurate information?

Originally posted by namorsubby
2 lol, I assume he's human speed because he is simply human. the illusion of him outreact metas is created by his ability(which, BTW, is one big contradiction of itself)

No he a mutant, he not simply human and never was. I not talking about him out reacting meta. I am talking about his actual speed which he showed to be far faster then taskmaster and it had nothing to do with his TP.

Originally posted by namorsubby
3.this statement makes no sense to me.....mr.x's power tells him what someone'll do next, supposedly in allowing him to react inately........but SS also does the same.....but spidey has to react manually, which is alright, considering how much faster he is than X reflex wise.

Again You assume spiderman so much faster when he not. X has since day one showed speed well beyond human level. This is a fact.

Originally posted by namorsubby
4.lol, again X is not faster than logan or taskmaster....he's not manually reacting anything, supposedly at least.......his pre-warning and inate auotmatic response gives the illusion of superhuman speed,

When he fought both of them he was manually reactiong and again he with with out using his TP showed to be much faster then taskmaster in movement speed to the point of an utter speed bltizt.

Originally posted by namorsubby

but he still can't react faster than humanly possible.......spidey has a pre-warning too, with no inate automatic response, but with much greater reflexes,flexibility,agility, etc

Yes he can, and no spiderman does not. Maybe you should actually read mister X instead of assuming based on little to no knowledge you have on him.

Originally posted by namorsubby

6.X's writers have wolverine sydrome, no doubt. first, beserker rage beats him, which means his power can't be inate.......then he later describes how he somehow trains this skill into an inate abillity....which is completely impossible....then this inate ability he has attained through training returns once again to it's "devolved" state, when he is bamboozled by a crazy,scatterbrained fighting style.......which is what happened before his "training" against berserker rage

Yes he trained his ability to lock on brain waves inorder to fight berserker rage. Every apearences of his goes with this aside from one PIS filled issue. Which reeember who a hack wrote. So stop getting so stuck on one PIS moment, if you new anything about the thunderbolts and Mister X you know why that issue is pis . What worse is many people who are on the spidermna side are acknolwedging it as PIS, there a reason, it becuase it is PIS.

Wild Shadow Restricted

Originally posted by The Nuul
No, theres no such class for that.

Hes enhanced Human.

wolverine is bio'ed engineer mutant, he also possess hyper reflexes making him above peak...

carver9 Senior Member

Mister x would own Spidey.

Prep-Man Senior Member

Spidey.

Tha C-Master Zitz! Rash! Pimple!

Originally posted by h1a8
He's enhanced human because of feats. But why isn't Spidey class 100 following the same logic?
He does have a point. We made a thread about what Wolverine would logically stand up to given the opponent a free chance to strike at him. He takes damage on a human scale (albeit a very tough human) he just regenerates it really quickly, but he can't "heal" before the damage is done and unconsciousness is a state that you don't "heal" like that in the first place. Coupled with the fact that adamantium doesn't absord vibrations like vibranium does and that it is harder and actually absorbs less, then he is capable of being knocked out.

I hate these arguments because it's feats for one character and it's stats for Spiderman. Spiderman is a class 10 on the boards or whatever, but Wolverine remains 2+ or whatever he is tons, because he had "some feats" with Spiderman's feats he is well beyond a 10 ton character.

Parmaniac Evincar of KMC

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
I hate these arguments because it's feats for one character and it's stats for Spiderman. Spiderman is a class 10 on the boards or whatever, but Wolverine remains 2+ or whatever he is tons, because he had "some feats" with Spiderman's feats he is well beyond a 10 ton character.
👆

Mshinu Star for a Brain

Wolvie has quite a few strength feats that puts him above peak human but above 2 tons is a bit of a stretch IMO. He is a bit hard to pin down exactly just like Sabretooth, but does it really matter? 800lbs to 2 ton is accurate enough, I don`t think anyone would argue he is only athlete level.

Battlehammer Senior Member

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
He does have a point. We made a thread about what Wolverine would logically stand up to given the opponent a free chance to strike at him. He takes damage on a human scale (albeit a very tough human)

This is wrong actually. His durability is well beyond even peak-human. Been stated on the novel he was chemically treated by the weapon x program,he been stated with enhanced durability a number of times if not mistaken, he also been stated with megnitude durability, had his bones stated as superhumanly denses, and his claws have been as bone claws mind you cut through metal, stone ect. His body is stated a number of time to be just as durable as his claws made of the same dense bone. It a misconception that he has any resemble simple human durability

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
he just regenerates it really quickly, but he can't "heal" before the damage is done and unconsciousness is a state that you don't "heal" like that in the first place. Coupled with the fact that adamantium doesn't absord vibrations like vibranium does and that it is harder and actually absorbs less, then he is capable of being knocked out.

Yet he shows time and again, for this not to be the cases. Consistently mind you, and there a reason why he rouges run around with bladed weapons.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
I hate these arguments because it's feats for one character and it's stats for Spiderman.

Not at all, nor did anyone try such an arguement, but thats what you get from looking at H18 post and believing that his rant is anything but a rant. The only character being held to a handbook rating was X, who apearences asside from a single issue all support form day one that he superhuman in pretty much every senses. No one even tried to hold spiderman to any hand book, it was quite the opposite, and whats worse is the handbook they held X to contradicted it self several times if not mistaken and was wrong about pretty dam near everything.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Spiderman is a class 10 on the boards or whatever, but Wolverine remains 2+ or whatever he is tons, because he had "some feats" with Spiderman's feats he is well beyond a 10 ton character.

Wolverine was not even part of this debate actually almost nothing you debated was every transpiring. You kinda jump the gun, based off h18.......who is absurd......to say the least......I mean how he fews spiderman is an untouchable monster while he takes everyone elses at there handbook showings or simply makes shit up........which he did several times in this thread perhaps another one, which ever one he was spewing nonsenses recently about wolverine being created originally to be a peak-human then he got called on his BS, and he switched it to wolverine being stated to be just an ordinary human and dipicted as such after his character development I believe is what he said which is even worse BS. Pretty much H18 is talking nonsenses.

Spiderman is beyond class 10, though it get tricky were is at right now, given the fact techinically any feats of strength out side BND can be scrutinized. Spidermans a base level class 10 that does not mean he can't lift more, simply mean his base strength.

Wolverine being a class 2+ is based on consistently display comic evidences. He originally was suposes to be a class 10, he then had his powers alter when he became and x-men but never stated by how much, he started on the x-men by breaking unbreakable chains, as well as doing it again not that long after if not mistaken, he then displayed feats like throwing a dam shark out of water into a boat, wielding a tree like a base ball bat ect. He does not have low strength showings, in terms of strength he one of the more consistently display characters. Hell the one time I can even think of what contridicts him being class 2 is him onces saying he had trouble lifitng some solider, but that even contricts his own statement by using the solider for a weapon with utter easy. He has feats over class 2, he really never shown to have not been able to lift something that required class two strength. He pretty much always displayed the same level of strength and never shown to struggle with things under class 2. He also shown in a direct comparison while even in a weaken state to be stronger then beast.......

Battlehammer Senior Member

Originally posted by Mshinu
Wolvie has quite a few strength feats that puts him above peak human but above 2 tons is a bit of a stretch IMO. He is a bit hard to pin down exactly just like Sabretooth, but does it really matter? 800lbs to 2 ton is accurate enough, I don`t think anyone would argue he is only athlete level.

you be surprised and he has several feats that would put him well within the 2 ton range.

Sabre-tooth is ridiculously underrated in terms of strength. People forget how ridiculously strong he was before several upgrades.

Tha C-Master Zitz! Rash! Pimple!

His bones in his claws are tougher than the rest of his body, nice try though. Wolverine did come up in the debate, or are we saying he hasn't. I don't agree with everything that h1a8 says nor any poster, but I was just agreeing with what he said to some extent.

Sabretooth was trapped under a car before, was he not? Where are these strength feats of his (I know he has bent the dumbbell though).

Spider-man has shown higher than a 10 ton base strength, Wolverine has not shown a 2 ton base strength. My only point was that characters need to be evaluated fairly, there was no need to write that much about a simple sentence.

Battlehammer Senior Member

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
His bones in his claws are tougher than the rest of his body, nice try though.

No there not, nor am i trying anything. Trying to argue that wolverine bone claws are not the same as his skeleton structure is like trying to argue current IF is not superhuman. It literally stated in numerous x-men and wolverine comics especially wolverine comics while he had bone claws that his dense claws are made of the same bone as your skeleton. This is a fact and stated so many times in the front page of countless issues that i can't even believe it being argued against, let alone that I am actaully having some one think I am pulling so sort of fast one...........

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Wolverine did come up in the debate, or are we saying he hasn't. I don't agree with everything that h1a8 says nor any poster, but I was just agreeing with what he said to some extent.

But what you stated had nothing to do with anything being discussed in the thread, it was just h18 being his rediculous self. No one was trying to hold spiderman to hand book ratings, it was infact Mister x who was being able to hand book statistic, and having absurd comment like spiderman is 49 times faster then he...........yes that was actaully stated by mister h18 or maybe it was 48.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Sabretooth was trapped under a car before, was he not? Where are these strength feats of his (I know he has bent the dumbbell though).

It was a humv military one full loaded I believe, not that that realy matters it was a god awful run that actaully contradicted it self.

Strength feats? Well lets see he proved stronger then a bull elephant charging before, by break a barrier designed to stop one, he in classic version muscles were so tight mrs. marvel could not even pressure point him, he man handle classic rougue, tossed a 10 genertor around as a weapon, seem to be superior in strength to spiderman when they faced off ect, He also shown to get two upgrades to strength I believe this was after preitty much all the events I mention, he also has several other feats as well.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Spider-man has shown higher than a 10 ton base strength, Wolverine has a
not shown a 2 ton base strength. My only point was that characters need to be evaluated fairly, there was no need to write that much about a simple sentence.

He also shown to struggle with 10 tons strength before, he very inconsistently shown. Also what do you mean more then base strength? I mean consistently? I would disagree strongly with this. Though I wonder what you view bases strength as, I few it as miminal effort to achieve if that.

When has wolverien really ever shown to struggle 2 ton strength feat? He actually has more consistent strength displays then spiderman, thought not closes to as much.

I find this funny the whole fairly thing given the fact you jump on spidy side, about how he held to hand books and so forth, dispite the fact not a single person in the thread held him to a hand book. But in fact Mister X was held to a handbook, but I notice you did not defend him? Yes clearly spiderman was victimized when you have people stating that x is human becuase of a handbook and how he physically looks, and you have people stating spiderman 49 times faster...........and ignoring how x been portrayed since day one, so honestly if your going to talk about fairly, you might want to actually try jumping on the side of the character who be victimized and not create and arguement that not a single person made about spidy..........and start argueing it.

Tha C-Master Zitz! Rash! Pimple!

Show proof of your first statement please.

What I stated had something to do with how the characters were discussed, let's not confuse my statement with the topic. My point was about how fast a certain character is compared to another. And Spiderman's strength is not really inconsistently shown. Waaaay back in the day where characters didn't have a more set limit he might have been protrayed that way but not anymore.

I was talking about in general how characters how evaluated on the forum, evaluate them fairly, and I didn't jump on either side as Mister X wasn't victimized. My point was more or less an example made by everyone else on the forum, especially considering how things go in other threads compared to this one. I think you just have a problem with anybody saying anything about Wolverine really, that's all it amounts to. If I say Wolverine in any thread, I get a long paragraph from something that was originally a sentence.

And please prove your statement on Wolverine's strength, because it's not true, and I'm sure I won't see any proof anyways so I might as well not have asked.

Battlehammer Senior Member

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Show proof of your first statement please.

Gladly, though I wish I was more computer savy so that I could post the scans, because I have the issues on the computer, but I must be lacking a program or something, because it won’t allow me take individual images, but oh well I simply do it old school and give the issue numbers.

This is pretty common knowledge, but just to make sure you understand more clearly what I mean I posted several issue all of which say the same thing and on the same page which is the first of each issue.

And I quote “His deadliest weapons are his razor-sharp, extendible claws, composed of the same dense bone as his skeleton.” This is the same statement for each issue.

Wolverine# 119

Wolverine# 120

Wolverine# 123

Wolverine# 124

Wolverine# 125

Wolverine# 126

Wolverine# 127

Wolverine# 128

Wolverine# 132

Wolverine# 134

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
What I stated had something to do with how the characters were discussed, let's not confuse my statement with the topic. My point was about how fast a certain character is compared to another.

It was? Please enlighten me were you discussed a characters speed in this thread since, are friendly discussion has transpired, because for the live of me seem unable to locate such a statement made by yourself.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
And Spiderman's strength is not really inconsistently shown. Waaaay back in the day where characters didn't have a more set limit he might have been protrayed that way but not anymore.

He not inconsistently shown anymore so then a number of characters, but he has inconsistent showings, like having great trouble lifting objects much less then 100 tons, but then displaying feats that some could argue are 100 class feats. That pretty inconsistent, but is this the norm? No of course not, if he had back and forth showings like this, marvel would have to find themselves some new writers, but he has been shown inconsistently at times strength wises. My argument was not that Spiderman is inconsistent, simply in terms of strength showings he more inconsistent then wolverine. This could well be due to the amount of strength showings Spiderman has in comparison to wolverine.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
I was talking about in general how characters how evaluated on the forum, evaluate them fairly, and I didn't jump on either side as Mister X wasn't victimized.

Victimized may have been a strong word, but then again given certain statement made by individuals of ridiculous levels can it be classified as anything else’s? I mean can you even show an example of Spiderman ignorance in this thread aside from some two word answer like “Mister X pwns” or some such nonsense’s that is even closes to the level of some one stating that Spiderman is 69 times faster then Mister x, or people ignoring X entire consistent history and basing his abilities on the fact he looks human so that means he only normal human speed or basing him simply off his handbook entry while taking spiderman at his best in comics? I mean it not really comparable, Mister X has been down played to ridiculous level by a number posters in this thread and spiderman has not been down played to anywhere near the extent, and much less frequently through out the thread. I mean I really like to see you make an argument actually supported by posts made within this thread, that displays spiderman being down played to anywhere near the extent Mister X has been.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
My point was more or less an example made by everyone else on the forum, especially considering how things go in other threads compared to this one. I think you just have a problem with anybody saying anything about Wolverine really, that's all it amounts to. If I say Wolverine in any thread, I get a long paragraph from something that was originally a sentence.

I dislike ignorance’s what can I say? I dislike it even more when it the same people and they never learn. But what I dislike more is that some one would make a comment agreeing with H1a8 to an extent which could boost his confidence, when he brought the debate off topic pretty much with one in corrected statement, which would be fine if he leave it at that once he was called out on his ignorance, but people like him don’t know when to stop when they were already wrong once despite how little they may know about what there talking about they pretend they ment something else and state some other nonsense’s comment out of there ass, as if this time around it will be anymore effective, and then they get called out again on there ignorance, which one would think would cause them to go “well that did not work …..again maybe I should just stop talking out my ass then and shut up”, but instead he swithes tactics and goes and tries to turn this into some haft assed wolverine fans vs spiderman crap fest. But that comment got ignored, and for good reason but you not only decide to respond to his ridiculous comment that had no relevance to the thread or what people were correcting him on, but what worse is you do just what he wanting to happen, with that comment.

You state this.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master

I hate these arguments because it's feats for one character and it's stats for Spiderman. Spiderman is a class 10 on the boards or whatever, but Wolverine remains 2+ or whatever he is tons, because he had "some feats" with Spiderman's feats he is well beyond a 10 ton character.

Not only do you comment on the ridiculous attempt to start crap fest argument, but you even play the ooh everyone picks on spidy card, and uses his stats, while acknowledging others feats. What is the 2nd worst part of this, is no one was doing this to spidy, not a single person. No one was discussing his strength at the time, no ones was basing him on his stats, while taking another character at his feats. This was not happening, but still you play this card. The only thing anyone did was correct to incorrect statements by H1a8, not a single person even attempted to argue spiderman strength, let a lone take him at his stats. But what is the worst part is Mister X and not Spiderman was the one being constricted specifically to his handbook stats.

Battlehammer Senior Member

Though I like to apologies for my first post, in any others, that may come off as insult. I realized especially with my first responses to you that it was rather harsh as may some of my later ones may also have been and I am sorry if you take offenses. I realized that I held you to a standard I my self do not even regularly do, I assumed you read the last several pages of discussion in the thread, and that was ridiculous for me to assume. It also explains a lot about your post since the context of what had transpired through the several pages of discussions, was not transparent from simply reading the last page and I could see my self thinking similar based on on H1a8 last post, that a debate between wolverine and Spiderman relative strength had taken place and that Spiderman’s was being treated unfairly (though neither took place, his post was miss leading, and seem to imply some unfair justice being casted Spiderman’s way over a debate between him and wolverine strength levels in which Spiderman was being held to handbook standards, (though no such debate did occur and Spiderman was in no way regulated to handbook stats once in his debate with mister x unless perhaps by scuba who also held mister x to such standards despite the fact the handbook does not even list his full array of his powers and abilities. Mister H1a8 annoys me a lot, I can’t understand how he logically even comes to his conclusions, he tends to contradicted his lines of reasoning from debate to debate, which would not be so noticeable if it was not the same character he debating for. Did not mean to be so harsh to a friend I apologies

Originally posted by Tha C-Master

And please prove your statement on Wolverine's strength, because it's not true, and I'm sure I won't see any proof anyways so I might as well not have asked.

You really need to be more direct on what you are asking for. I made more then one statement about his strength, but I assume you are referring to Wolverine displaying class 2 strength, if so I will gladly post some feats of him displaying feats the require around and above class 2 strength.

Feats that require at least 2 tons and greater below

Wolverine breaking out of Ursa Major bear hug.

Wolverine throwing a shark into a boat within water well over his head.
http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/6867/sharktossinvc5.jpg
Wolverine throwing a full dumpster one armed at solo.
http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/5372/dumpsterii9.jpg

Wolverine launching Black Cat from the ocean into a helicopter that is many feat up from water over his head.
http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/1074/claws200603page05xs3tl9.jpg

Some interesting feats for fun, with wolverine in comparison to other superhuman level heroes, and also against meta human monsters.

Wolverine breaking out of shackles in a weaken state, that beast could not break looses from, and Beast was healthy.
http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/2301/restraints2cl0.jpg

Wolverine man handling a vampire in pure strength that seemed to easily over power Blade, though he was far less experienced at the time, his strength level would still very much be that of vampire.
http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/8333/bladexg0.jpg

Wolverine showing to easily throw off three or four werewolves that were on him.
http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/8375/wolviebuckshot2pf7.jpg

Another group of feats, that is being posted for kicks, but show great power. They range from a number of event’s I fine to be humerous.

Wolverine kicking off a person’s head, yes that is really a human in that suit

Here issue number if someone does not believe me Wolverine# 109

Wolverine using a huge tree as a baseball bat
http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/3121/bd9a6048ps6.jpg

Wolverine lifting a massive block of ice and throwing it, I wonder how much that would weigh.

Wolverine throws an ice block:

Wolverine powering through a lot and I mean a lot of men trying to restrain him.

rotiart Stan Lee Stole my name

why the hell is it when i go into a thread and i see battlehammer responding, its about characters that aren't in a thread.