^ "Hundreds" becomes "thousands" now? Hyperbolizing your theory and exaggerating such that nobody would countenance sitting through and reading (much less scanning and cropping) that amount of proof doesn't take away a simple fact:
Wolverine can be KO'ed/incapacitated. And it doesn't require plot device powers/machines or overloading his healing factor. At all.
This is seen, hundreds of times. There's no arguing that fact. And hiding behind his formidable healing factor doesn't detract from that simple, immutable truth.
^ Uh, yeah, it's true. I really don't care if you can't be bothered to scan all of that, it's a claim that has serious faults...
Can he be knocked out?
Sure...
He can be knocked out.... sure.
BUT, it usually takes an overwhelming amount of damage or an overwhelming amount of power to do so, both of which Gamora typically does not posses.
The percentage chance of Wolverine just up and getting knocked out resides somewhere between 1 and 10%, those are not high odds to argue for a knock out to occur.
^ Like it was a 1 to 10% chance that somebody could take something as heavy as a bank truck and slam it down on top of his head. Sure. It's such a far-fetched scenario that could only happen 1 to 10% of the time. Ever.
Wolverine can get knocked out/incapacitated. Clearly an overwhelming amount of damage and power would do so. But clearly an overwhelming amount of damage or power is not required. We've seen it happen much too often. Gamora's got the agility, strength, ranged options, durability, Godslayer combined with her superior fighting skills to manage it.
Far less powerful/skilled opponents have knocked out/incapacitated Wolverine with less than catastrophic damage that overloads his healing factor. You're trying to argue with history here.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Like it was a 1 to 10% chance that somebody could take something as heavy as a bank truck and slam it down on top of his head. Sure. It's such a far-fetched scenario that could only happen 1 to 10% of the time. Ever.Wolverine can get knocked out/incapacitated. Clearly an overwhelming amount of damage and power would do so. But clearly an overwhelming amount of damage or power is not required. We've seen it happen much too often. Gamora's got the agility, strength, ranged options, durability, Godslayer combined with her superior fighting skills to manage it.
Far less powerful/skilled opponents have knocked out/incapacitated Wolverine with less than catastrophic damage that overloads his healing factor. You're trying to argue with history here.
Thought you said knock out or incap by way of a non plot device... Dropping a bank truck on Logan is a win by way of plot device. There's no way to conclude if it knocked him out it just got him out of the way.
It's not evidence that supports your claim, not for a featurless forum fight.
^ Plot device is like antarctic vibranium bullet. Are you saying in a fight against a strong character, said strong character can't pick up something heavy and slam it on top of him? The characters are fighting on the ground... yes? A ground where a professed 70-tonner could surely take a several ton chunk of ground and slam it on Wolverine?
Something tells me they're not fighting in space or in Limbo where such a featureless environment = nothing to grab.
sure if she wants to waste her time to dig her fingers and hope to pull a chunk that weighs several tons in her hands without crumbling..
also KMC rules are featureless terrain unless specified by OP and states usage of items other then that it is assumed standard gear only of character..
seriously reaching here..
^ Clearly all ground crumbles when you pick up a chunk of it in a comic book. And clearly the ground cannot be used in a forum fight. Since Featureless environment = ban on using the environment. Is that it?
So I guess if Hulk wanted to grab Wolverine and slam him onto the ground, that's invalid. Ground was being used. Sure.
Your ship be sinking.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Plot device is like antarctic vibranium bullet. Are you saying in a fight against a strong character, said strong character can't pick up something heavy and slam it on top of him? The characters are fighting on the ground... yes? A ground where a professed 70-tonner could surely take a several ton chunk of ground and slam it on Wolverine?Something tells me they're not fighting in space or in Limbo where such a featureless environment = nothing to grab.
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Uhmmmmm look no one is arguing that a brick can pick up a car and drop it on Wolverine, or pick up a bus and drop it on Wolverine, but that's a tactic that detracts from the point of the thread.
We're here to distinguish who wins in a fight correct?
This reminds me of Bruce Lee's "art of fighting without fighting" sure you you got your opponent out of the way... but did you prove you could defeat him in a fight?
In any case rules state featureless environments. Besides, I'm sure if a typical brick tries to use time to get boulders to drop on Logan he'll already be cutting away at them.
I honestly don't get this.... Gamora is more skilled and this is evident by narration and artist depiction. Marvel didn't just throw in by accident.. The Deadliest Woman in the Universe.... saying she's mastered 84% of all armed and unarmed combat by accident. It was to illustrate how immensly skilled she really is. Certainly more so than Wolverine who for all is many more appearance has no such references to his skill. No... the deadliest man in the universe... Nothing of the sort. She takes on bricks that are stronger and more durable than Wolverine with no issues... Drax and Thing are examples. Just because she doesn't have many appearances changes nothing. We still use logic and common sense for what she does have and what has been said about her. Ultimator doesn't have many showings or feats yet we don't act like she is a feeb do we? DP Tyrant doesn't have many showings but we can logically figure out how powerful he is by what he does have. The fact is she is stronger and more skilled and just as durable if not more so. Strength, skill and Durability are keys to winning a h2h encounter and she has wolverine beat in those areas. To say nothing of the fact that she also has range attacks and doesn't just have to melee unlike wolverine. This fight is as clear as day and the fact that it has gone 56 pages is honestly quite amusing.
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Originally posted by jinzinOur disagreement lay in whether Gamora slamming an object several tons in weight on top of him was a plot device. It's not. Nothing you've said changes that. I won't accuse you of purposefully deflecting, but plainly nothing you've said changes that.
Uhmmmmm look no one is arguing that a brick can pick up a car and drop it on Wolverine, or pick up a bus and drop it on Wolverine, but that's a tactic that detracts from the point of the thread.We're here to distinguish who wins in a fight correct?
This reminds me of Bruce Lee's "art of fighting without fighting" sure you you got your opponent out of the way... but did you prove you could defeat him in a fight?
In any case rules state featureless environments. Besides, I'm sure if a typical brick tries to use time to get boulders to drop on Logan he'll already be cutting away at them.
Allusions to Bruce Lee are meaningless when we speak of characters that have superpowers. They are rendered even more meaningless when BFR is a valid win in a forum fight. We both know this.
And featureless environments =/= groundless environments. What... somebody kicking dust into someone's eye in a forum match is disallowed because of "featurelessness?" No, I don't think so. I'm sure Wolverine would try to not get slammed or cut through. No argument there.
Sure it is.
Principles are independent from the relevance of superpowers.
If you can't beat your opponent by fighting him, it doesn't speak volumes about you beating him in a fight.
Spidey can outwit Hydroman, or Sandman, but that doesn't say much about what would happen in a fight between the two.
Featureless environment indicates to me that there won't be piles of cars and what not to drop on Wolverine.
You want to argue for making their own boulders out of debris, your perogative, but again capitalizing on that strategy before Wolverine attacks is unlikely.
^ Thumbnails. Seriously. Posting full-size pictures is the equivalanet of TYPING IN ALL CAPS.
Originally posted by jinzinHow did throwing sh1t at Wolverine transmorph into an argument over the principles of fair fighting, duels and clean victories? I'll chalk it up to a mutant superpower to prevaricate onto wholly inapposite arguments. The mutant, Hope, heralded your arrival... the second mutant. Call the presses.
Sure it is.Principles are independent from the relevance of superpowers.
If you can't beat your opponent by fighting him it, doesn't speak volumes about beating him in a fight.
Spidey can outwit Hydroman, or Sandman, but that doesn't say much about what would happen in a fight between the two.
Featureless environment indicates to me that there won't be piles of cars and what not to drop on Wolverine.
You want to argue for making their own boulders out of debris, your perogative, but again capitalizing on that strategy before Wolverine attacks is unlikely.
Unlikely in your opinion, fine. Plot device that violates a KMC rule? Not so much.
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
I honestly don't get this.... Gamora is more skilled and this is evident by narration and artist depiction. Marvel didn't just throw in by accident.. The Deadliest Woman in the Universe.... saying she's mastered 84% of all armed and unarmed combat by accident. It was to illustrate how immensly skilled she really is. Certainly more so than Wolverine who for all is many more appearance has no such references to his skill. No... the deadliest man in the universe... Nothing of the sort. She takes on bricks that are stronger and more durable than Wolverine with no issues... Drax and Thing are examples. Just because she doesn't have many appearances changes nothing. We still use logic and common sense for what she does have and what has been said about her. Ultimator doesn't have many showings or feats yet we don't act like she is a feeb do we? DP Tyrant doesn't have many showings but we can logically figure out how powerful he is by what he does have. The fact is she is stronger and more skilled and just as durable if not more so. Strength, skill and Durability are keys to winning a h2h encounter and she has wolverine beat in those areas. To say nothing of the fact that she also has range attacks and doesn't just have to melee unlike wolverine. This fight is as clear as day and the fact that it has gone 56 pages is honestly quite amusing.
Gladiator said that no force in the Universe had ever taken on so many Elite Shiar Guardsmen and won, so theres that, and Gamora her self knew of Wolverine's reputation and was eager to test it... so theres that as well. Obviously you'd like to decided that Gamora is more skilled based on an arbitrary title, but - you know - I can do that to seeing as Wolverine is "the best there is at what he does". Actions speak louder than worlds. So where are the actions that show Gamora being more skilled? They aren't anywhere because she hasn't fought any notably skilled opponents and won. Thats just a fact. The only person will skill of any merit she has fought with - once again - was Wolverine and she didn't win, or even show the slightest signs of being superior. Wolverine on the other hand has beaten extremely skilled opponents. By a comparison of feats Wolverine is the more skilled of the two, and a comparison of feats is how these debates are decided. If you don't think Gamora has enough feats to justify your opinion.... then why are you arguing in case of it? If the feats don't exist then you are simply giving Gamora the benefit of the doubt.
Wolverine healing factor needs to be overloaded to ko him. In ever instance of him ever being knocked out his healing factor was over loaded. Now, some of the time his healing factor was written down to low levels to serve the plot - which means they are examples of PIS - and as I imagine those are the examples you'd like to use, I guess arguing that the ko occurred magical without Wolverine's healing factor being taken into account, is really your only option. If you'd like you can post any example of Wolverine being knocked out and I will explain the circumstances behind it to you.
No feats to back your opinion of Gamora of winning, and only using PIS low end Wolverine feats. Did someone say something about a sinking ship?
