Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosiactually reed of all ppl commented on it or eluded to it when thing knocked out wolverine with a hammer strike blow during secret war.. also logan has commented on it more then once in his comic series... saying stuff like his HF being overworked taxed out not able to take any more hits etc etc... without being ko'ed.. he even commented a such a reference during civil war tie in when he fought namor's spies after he had healed from a skeleton and was taking punches from the black atlantean iirc
Can you please show me ONE single scan and reference when Wolverine is KO'd it's because his healing factor was overloaded. Please just show me this stated through narration. You're saying that EVERYTIME Wolverine has been KO'd it's either because of PIS if it was catastrophic.. or it was because his healing factor was overloaded. So surely there must be a scan backing up this claim of yours. What perplexes me is how you don't understand the concept of a healing factor and what it does. It heals him.. see that wasn't hard was it? Thus it is quite logical that he can be KO'd from various things that would KO others… only difference is.. he can heal from such things and varying degrees depending on the severity of the blow. The key there is HEAL…. and HF doesn't make you immune to damage or increase your durability.. It allows you to heal from injuries much faster than most. This is why he can be flash KO'd and get up very quickly. Durability and a Healing factor aren't the same things. When something hits thanos it's his durability that kicks in to prevent damage.. whatever damage occurs… his healing factor takes care of the rest. When he's injured we don't say his healing factor is overloaded..if anything it was his durability that was slightly overloaded… I didn't think these basic concept went over your head.. but clear they do…. Don't worry I won't charge you this time for basic comic book knowledge.
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Can you please show me ONE single scan and reference when Wolverine is KO'd it's because his healing factor was overloaded. Please just show me this stated through narration. You're saying that EVERYTIME Wolverine has been KO'd it's either because of PIS if it was catastrophic.. or it was because his healing factor was overloaded. So surely there must be a scan backing up this claim of yours. What perplexes me is how you don't understand the concept of a healing factor and what it does. It heals him.. see that wasn't hard was it? Thus it is quite logical that he can be KO'd from various things that would KO others… only difference is.. he can heal from such things and varying degrees depending on the severity of the blow. The key there is HEAL…. and HF doesn't make you immune to damage or increase your durability.. It allows you to heal from injuries much faster than most. This is why he can be flash KO'd and get up very quickly. Durability and a Healing factor aren't the same things. When something hits thanos it's his durability that kicks in to prevent damage.. whatever damage occurs… his healing factor takes care of the rest. When he's injured we don't say his healing factor is overloaded..if anything it was his durability that was slightly overloaded… I didn't think these basic concept went over your head.. but clear they do…. Don't worry I won't charge you this time for basic comic book knowledge.
But the problem here is - he takes shots from class 100 beings all the time and for the vast majority, remains fully conscious. So how do you explain that? His brain should be goo just from a single blow, yet he remains fully aware and conscious...sometimes he even rubs his jaw like he's just been slapped by a chick. The only explanation is that his healing factor is concentrated on healing his brain - and does so instantly. That's if you want to play the game of keeping everything making sense. You could always just say that different writers have different interpretations of his abilities which is actually the real truth. Jinzin and Srank both know this but they instead want to try and explain what's going on which requires some speculation because well..it just doesn't make sense. We all know that it doesn't but the fact is that Wolverine, at his best, tanks anything Gamora throws at him. It doesn't matter why or how just that it happens. It doesn't matter that it doesn't make sense from a real-life biological standpoint - this is a bloody comic book. Illogical, unscientific stuff happens with every single character. So, by KMC rules, you have to take a character at his best, and therefore, Logan being knocked out by Sword butts or by MA's is completely and totally irrelivant. What matters is that at his very best, Logan took several shots from WWH to the face before brain damage set in..and he was still concious.
Nuff said
Different writers, different interpretations, story constraints, and general laziness in writing fight scenes without writing powers intelligently..
Take The Lightning Saga, where Batman was actually hanging with Val Amorr. Thanks to that single showing, now we have fans who're largely unfamiliar with Legion history assuming Batman could kick Amorr's arse in a rematch, or that Amorr's is barely above street level...
But of course, the writer couldn't have some third tier character punk the almighty Batman...
I think the same thing probably applies to Wolverine, on both ends of the spectrum.. Sometimes, he'll have trouble from someone he should punk (Castle), and other times someone will struggle who really should punk him.. (Hulk).
Originally posted by cdtm
Different writers, different interpretations, story constraints, and general laziness in writing fight scenes without writing powers intelligently..Take The Lightning Saga, where Batman was actually hanging with Val Amorr. Thanks to that single showing, now we have fans who're largely unfamiliar with Legion history assuming Batman could kick Amorr's arse in a rematch, or that Amorr's is barely above street level...
But of course, the writer couldn't have some third tier character punk the almighty Batman...
I think the same thing probably applies to Wolverine, on both ends of the spectrum.. Sometimes, he'll have trouble from someone he should punk (Castle), and other times someone will struggle who really should punk him.. (Hulk).
No, that's a different thing - hence why ABD logic cannot possibly work.
See, punisher has tools at his disposal which might hurt Logan. But Savage Hulk is a stupid brick who swings without knowing what he's doing. So WOlverine can just dodge and slash away. Hulk heals so fast though that's why Logan doesn't put him down - eventually Hulk gets angry enough that he can take Logan and the fight via knocking him sky high or smashing him until Logan's HF gives out. Hulk usually ends up punking him in the end but the fact is that Logan should be able to take Bricks who are as strong as Hulk who don't have a healing factor. Such as Namor or Ares...they can't heal so should they take Logan? The character was designed to fight bricks - but he does much worse against foes like Spiderman or even Cap who can match his speed or skill and who have weapons to deal with him..
Just because someone is a brick doesn' mean they can take Wolverine..
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Can you please show me ONE single scan and reference when Wolverine is KO'd it's because his healing factor was overloaded. Please just show me this stated through narration. You're saying that EVERYTIME Wolverine has been KO'd it's either because of PIS if it was catastrophic.. or it was because his healing factor was overloaded. So surely there must be a scan backing up this claim of yours. What perplexes me is how you don't understand the concept of a healing factor and what it does. It heals him.. see that wasn't hard was it? Thus it is quite logical that he can be KO'd from various things that would KO others… only difference is.. he can heal from such things and varying degrees depending on the severity of the blow. The key there is HEAL…. and HF doesn't make you immune to damage or increase your durability.. It allows you to heal from injuries much faster than most. This is why he can be flash KO'd and get up very quickly. Durability and a Healing factor aren't the same things. When something hits thanos it's his durability that kicks in to prevent damage.. whatever damage occurs… his healing factor takes care of the rest. When he's injured we don't say his healing factor is overloaded..if anything it was his durability that was slightly overloaded… I didn't think these basic concept went over your head.. but clear they do…. Don't worry I won't charge you this time for basic comic book knowledge.
Thank you very much for this enlightening post. Thanks to you, I now know why all of you think that the Wolverine fans are being dense, as well as why the Wolverine fans believe you are being contradictory. It's all semantics.
When the Wolverine fans say that Wolverine will not be knocked out unless his healing factor is overloaded, most of you guys probably think of this:
A situation where Wolverine takes so much damage, that his healing factor isn't just slowed, it's overwhelmed, and can no longer keep him stable on its own. When this happens, his healing factor "shuts down," and he needs emergency medical treatment to keep breathing.
Yes, to say that Wolverine needs to go through THAT^ in order to be knocked out would be ridiculous. And guess what? NOBODY is saying that! Instead, they are all talking about this:
Originally posted by jinzin
*Okay well, for the knock out scenario let us first examine how knock outs occur in the first place.
Knock outs happen when the brain is rocked back and forth inside the head causing it to bounce around in the skull. When it does so the electrical synapses that fire off in the brain which help to dictate balance and motor skills get jolted. When the brain hits the front of the skull they fire from the front backward, and when it hits the back of the skull, the opposite.. When the Synapses get caught in the crossfire, it causes the nervous system to "short circuit" causing the person to lose their motor skills and conciousness.By way of boxing and full contact fighting statistics it's rare for people to be knocked out for more than a minute, it's extremely rare for them to slip into a coma.
This is important because:
Wolverine's been described on multitudes of occasions as taking damage from bullets, knives or explosions that would kill a man, ten men, twenty, an elephant, and even a heard of elephants... Yet in most of these references Wolverine continues not only to struggle, but to put up a full fledged fight. We know for certain that Wolverine can heal from an exploded heart in as fast as a few minutes, and once his nervous system regenrates he's able to pull off the same feat with his entire mass from a skeleton as well.One incident in particular comes to mind; Wolverine and Sabretooth were kicking the livin hell out one another, Wolverine recognized that they were trading punishment that would have killed dozens of men; Wolverine can heal from mortal afflictions capible of killing dozens of men fast enough not to be bothered by it to slow down his fight with another vicious superhuman... Why is this important?
Because: Think about the rate at which you heal; A srape, a cut, they might take a few days do scab over, and can take up to a few weeks before their appearance completely subsides. Think about that rate of healing and then think about how long it would take your body to heal at that rate from a knive wound. Weeks? Months?
Imagine how long it would take to regenerate an entire arm at that rate of healing... It would probably take decades... These are wounds Wolverine recovers from in minutes, seconds even.
When you put all that into perspective, recovering from a knock out at the rate Wolverine heals is practically nothing. Theoretically he could heal from a KO in a nanosecond or less.
It's concievable that Wolverine DOES get knocked out every time he gets hit by a brick, but he heals from the KO so fast that he recovers before he loses his balance or falls over... It's even possible that he experiences flashes of blackouts without falling down.
This is the standard explanation that Wolverine fans use for how Wolverine stands up to 100+ ton punches. In this context, "overloading" Wolverine's healing factor means dishing out enough damage to him, within a small enough span of time, that it is not able to heal him quickly enough, and he gets knocked out. We do NOT mean that his healing factor shuts down, simply that it is no longer operating at the level he needs it to in order to stay conscious against his foe.
A good example of this would be his fight against Namor in Wolverine #45. Here, Namor manages to knock Wolverine out, because his healing factor has been so slowed by getting incinerated to a skeleton, regenerating, then facing off against a 70 ton class brick in Janus, before taking multiple shots from Namor. In this instance, Wolverine did NOT need to go on life support, because his healing factor was still running- it was just running too slowly.
To summarize: While you may (rightly) note that it is ridiculous to claim that Wolverine's healing factor needs to shut down in order for him to be knocked out, that is not what the Wolverine fans are saying anyways. To us, it sounds crazy to say -Wolverine doesn't get knocked out because he heals so fast that he recovers in nanoseconds from knock out, but you don't need to slow that rate of healing in order to knock him out. Semantics- they have them for a reason 😛
Originally posted by cdtm
Would a healing factor have any bearing on nervous system disruption though?When a boxer recovers, it's not because they're regenerating tissue. Or, a boxer doesn't "heal" from a ko, they simply recover from one...
Right, but Wolverine regenerates brain tissue which is impossible for a normal person. He can regrow eyes, etc.
I think that Wolverine's healing factor has just become stronger over the years. There has been explanation in the comics that it's because of his soul fighting the Angel of Death. It's stupid, but hey, it's there, right. 😉
Besides, what's to stop him from gutting her before she even gets to tag him?
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Because the question doesn't make sense. I just think his healing factor is over loaded... but its not? If his healing factor wasn't overloaded... he - you know - wouldn't be koed.
No you don't get it. Jesus Christ almighty. The point is that you are making this shit up. It doesn't have to be overloaded for Wolverine to be Koed. The point im making is you invented this concept. It does happen but it doesnt always have to.
Originally posted by Wild Shadow
actually reed of all ppl commented on it or eluded to it when thing knocked out wolverine with a hammer strike blow during secret war.. also logan has commented on it more then once in his comic series... saying stuff like his HF being overworked taxed out not able to take any more hits etc etc... without being ko'ed.. he even commented a such a reference during civil war tie in when he fought namor's spies after he had healed from a skeleton and was taking punches from the black atlantean iirc
Thats the whole problem with you lot. There are lots of examples were he hasn't said that. What you lot do is you take all the high showings or the ones you like and ignore everything else. Just because you don't like a showing means you ignore it. Thats not right.
Originally posted by Deadline
No you don't get it. Jesus Christ almighty. The point is that you are making this shit up. It doesn't have to be overloaded for Wolverine to be Koed. The point im making is you invented this concept. It does happen but it doesnt always have to.Thats the whole problem with you lot. There are lots of examples were he hasn't said that. What you lot do is you take all the high showings or the ones you like and ignore everything else. Just because you don't like a showing means you ignore it. Thats not right.
Well... one of us doesn't get it, but it clearly isn't me. I'm not making things up, thats how Wolverine's healing factor works. Fact. For Christ's sake what don't you understand about that? The more he heals the slower he heals from subsequent attacks. If he gets to the point where his healing factor can't cop with the damage he has sustained during the flow of battle he will be koed, and his healing factor will regulate itself as it returns to its normal levels. Thats what happens when Wolverine is koed. EVERY TIME. If he seems to have gotten koed from a less damage than he normally would have its because his healing factor is being written at a lower level where it doesn't take as much to overload, not because it hasn't been over worked and taxed out, and whoever knocked him out magically managed to bypass his healing factor. Seriously... whats the problem here. How is the news to you? Should I help you find your local comic shop? Do you know who Wolverine is? Do you know what comics are? Are you aloud to be one the computer without adult supervision?
Seriously? Wolverine needs to say that every time he heals for you to understand what is going on? Do you really need that level hand holding in order for you to piece together what is going on in each panel? I imagine the authors think you capable of use some level of deductive reasoning... but obviously they have given you far to much credit.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Well... one of us doesn't get it, but it clearly isn't me. I'm not making things up, thats how Wolverine's healing factor works. Fact. For Christ's sake what don't you understand about that? The more he heals the slower he heals from subsequent attacks. If he gets to the point where his healing factor can't cop with the damage he has sustained during the flow of battle he will be koed, and his healing factor will regulate itself as it returns to its normal levels. Thats what happens when Wolverine is koed. EVERY TIME. If he seems to have gotten koed from a less damage than he normally would have its because his healing factor is being written at a lower level where it doesn't take as much to overload, not because it hasn't been over worked and taxed out, and whoever knocked him out magically managed to bypass his healing factor. Seriously... whats the problem here. How is the news to you? Should I help you find your local comic shop? Do you know who Wolverine is? Do you know what comics are? Are you aloud to be one the computer without adult supervision?Seriously? Wolverine needs to say that every time he heals for you to understand what is going on? Do you really need that level hand holding in order for you to piece together what is going on in each panel? I imagine the authors think you capable of use some level of deductive reasoning... but obviously they have given you far to much credit.
No mate thats your problem. You are assuming that everytime Wolverine gets Koed his HF was overloaded because thats what YOU want to believe. There are other examples that contradict that you are simply taking the ones you like.
Its not deductive reasoning its confimartion bias. Im not saying its incorrect im saying its not always true.
Originally posted by Deadline
No mate thats your problem. You are assuming that everytime Wolverine gets Koed his HF was overloaded [b]because thats what YOU want to believe. There are other examples that contradict that you are simply taking the ones you like.Its not deductive reasoning its confimartion bias. Im not saying its incorrect im saying its not always true. [/B]
Its not an assumption, its a statement of fact. Believe doesn't factor into may stance it in the slightest. We aren't talking about what I believe - we are talking about the difference between what I - and anyone whos ever read a Wolverine comic - knows, and what you believe. What is an assumption is your assurtion that Wolverine has or could be koed with out overloading his healing factor... since... you know... its never happened. There is no contradicting evidence. There has never been a case where Wolverine has been koed without his healing factor being overloaded. Obviously there are examples where the damage it took to do it was much lower (or much higher) than the norm, but his healing factor was still pushed to the point that it was unable to cope with damage sustained. To pull out the idea that his healing factor somehow didn't come into play at all because the damage it took to down him was less than norm, is absurd. Its never happened. It will never happen. You can't quick draw his healing factor. Its on by default. Stop making shit up, it ruins your credibility.
Heres the problem. You believe the sky is green. I'm telling you its blue. Now, I guess you are intitled to your opinion... but that doesn't change the fact that the sky isn't green, and your opinion is wrong. This isn't a matter of debate. There aren't valid opposing schools of thought. There is right and there is wrong, and you are wrong, and there isn't a single piece of evidance to the contrary.
Pretty sure putting two and two together and realizing what has been said on panel dozens of times is still happening even when it isn't said isn't any form of bias... its common f@cking sense.
Since reading comics must surely be a scary and confusing thing for someone without the ability of basic reasoning I'm going to help you out with a few things that have also surely been confusing you: every time Supeman lifts something with out explicit mention of his super strength, it is still a feat of strength that he can accomplish do to his super strenght; and every time Flash moves at superhuman speeds with out explicit mention of his ability to move at superhuman speeds, that is also still an example his superhuman speed. I'll try to help you out with what ever you are having problems understanding as long as you let me know.
Originally posted by Bentley
Swing and miss srank, swing and miss.
Fell free and attempt to prove me wrong. I wish you the best of luck in your endeavor. Now you must embark on a parlous journey, you have around 3500 Wolverine appearances to read through, in your quest to find a single example to support your stance. Good luck sir, I'll see you in a few weeks when you are done. Let me know if you have any luck.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Its not an assumption, its a statement of fact. Believe doesn't factor into may stance it in the slightest. We aren't talking about what I believe - we are talking about the difference between what I - and anyone whos ever read a Wolverine comic - knows, and what you believe. What [b]is an assumption is your assurtion that Wolverine has or could be koed with out overloading his healing factor... since... you know... its never happened. There is no contradicting evidence. There has never been a case where Wolverine has been koed without his healing factor being overloaded. Obviously there are examples where the damage it took to do it was much lower (or much higher) than the norm, but his healing factor was still pushed to the point that it was unable to cope with damage sustained. To pull out the idea that his healing factor somehow didn't come into play at all because the damage it took to down him was less than norm, is absurd. Its never happened. It will never happen. You can't quick draw his healing factor. Its on by default. Stop making shit up, it ruins your credibility.Heres the problem. You believe the sky is green. I'm telling you its blue. Now, I guess you are intitled to your opinion... but that doesn't change the fact that the sky isn't green, and your opinion is wrong. This isn't a matter of debate. There aren't valid opposing schools of thought. There is right and there is wrong, and you are wrong, and there isn't a single piece of evidance to the contrary.
Pretty sure putting two and two together and realizing what has been said on panel dozens of times is still happening even when it isn't said isn't any form of bias... its common f@cking sense.
Since reading comics must surely be a scary and confusing thing for someone without the ability of basic reasoning I'm going to help you out with a few things that have also surely been confusing you: every time Supeman lifts something with out explicit mention of his super strength, it is still a feat of strength that he can accomplish do to his super strenght; and every time Flash moves at superhuman speeds with out explicit mention of his ability to move at superhuman speeds, that is also still an example his superhuman speed. I'll try to help you out with what ever you are having problems understanding as long as you let me know. [/B]
You do realise that this is another explanation right?
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
What perplexes me is how you don't understand the concept of a healing factor and what it does. It heals him.. see that wasn't hard was it? Thus it is quite logical that he can be KO'd from various things that would KO others… only difference is.. he can heal from such things and varying degrees depending on the severity of the blow. The key there is HEAL…. and HF doesn't make you immune to damage or increase your durability.. It allows you to heal from injuries much faster than most. This is why he can be flash KO'd and get up very quickly. Durability and a Healing factor aren't the same things. When something hits thanos it's his durability that kicks in to prevent damage.. whatever damage occurs… his healing factor takes care of the rest. When he's injured we don't say his healing factor is overloaded..if anything it was his durability that was slightly overloaded… I didn't think these basic concept went over your head.. but clear they do…. Don't worry I won't charge you this time for basic comic book knowledge.
You do realise that all you said in your last post is "Im right"?
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Fell free and attempt to prove me wrong. I wish you the best of luck in your endeavor. Now you must embark on a parlous journey, you have around 3500 Wolverine appearances to read through, in your quest to find a single example to support your stance. Good luck sir, I'll see you in a few weeks when you are done. Let me know if you have any luck.
Strike two srank 😬
Originally posted by Deadline
You do realise that this is another explanation right?You do realise that all you said in your last post is "Im right"?
It's not another explanation, it's feeble attempt to rationalize Logan's piss poor showings so you have a leg to stand on. There is only one explanation, the explanation we've been given on panel, which is the same explanation I've given you. Anything else is theorycrafting with nothing to back it up.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
It's not another explanation, it's feeble attempt to rationalize Logan's piss poor showings so you have a leg to stand on. There is only one explanation, the explanation we've been given on panel, which is the same explanation I've given you. Anything else is theorycrafting with nothing to back it up.
Apart from the fact its YOUR opinion explain why its correct. I hate to break it you but your not a genuis and your not special just because you have an opnion doesn't make it inherently correct. You do actually have to try and be objective like the rest of the human race.
