Originally posted by Burning thought
You lied to me, you said only 10 seconds. It seems Zelda transforms to her true form at 3:10 and Ganon has a good few minutes before he uses any powers. It seems the shaking of the castle is also part of the cast time, it stops shaking after Zelda is imprisoned and that paralyzation what ever it is, is slow. Kain could have become mist/teleported before it had taken any effect.
I wasn't paying much attention to what happened before the spellcasting, to be honest. Still, Ganondorf located her out of an entire country. I suppose you're right, though. However, I doubt the shaking is part of the casting.
So Ganon cannot Tk castles? your now assuming a spell did it.....that would be my "assumption" as well....does not make it true, we just dont know. And Occams Razor is a theory for making assumptions, not facts.
What do we define as TK? From what I've seen, magic can easily substitute. If it's a spell, Ganondorf's magic is still able to lift a castle indefinitely. Minimum 7 years.
I did remember past matches, reflected energy or bolts is not a reason to say it can resist all magic, effects or certainly not TK. But yes, Link is not part of this.
Didn't Kain's Reflect spell just block projectiles and bolts? That's what I saw when I checked his KMC wiki entry.
Quickly? in your vid Zelda is her true form for about 3 minutes, thats an incredible amount of time for kain. Because then Kain is not inside the prison and if she can escape just by charging it with magic then it shows its not as paralyzing as you would have me belive. We know she can teleport but didnt do it or even try so not feat for the crystal.
As long as Ganondorf starts knowing where Kain is, he won't have to relocate him. And what are you talking about? Zelda did not escape, especially not by charging it with magic. She was completely paralyzed.
No he has not iirc, but he has seen through invisiblity, so he wont apprently see the spell but he will still see Ganon once hes invisible 😉
I don't understand what you mean. He won't see the invisibility spell, but he will see Ganondorf? And I doubt Ganondorf's invisibility has anything to do with the Spectral Realm. If his sight was purified, it doesn't mean he can see anything invisible.
What will harm him? rain doesnt harm Kain, he took blood in the first game to become immune to percipitation.
If this had been mentioned earlier, we might not have had to waste this time. I was under the impression all water was dangerous to Vampires. The cut Survive by Water spell even specified it protected from rain.
Because the only thing different is the way Kain is using them and how they work. Overall teleports works similiar. Also i dont know how fast after the initial use of the teleport kain is in the Elder God one. But as I said, distance is moot when distance is not technically being travelled.
They are separate teleports, so they should be used separately.The fact that he has multiple variations of the same ability tells me there is some bigger difference, anyway.
I missed it it would seem. Show me the vid and the exact time it happens please.
YouTube video
0:15 disappears
0:16 reappears
0:21 disappears
0:22 reappears
0:37 disappears
0:37 reappears
And so on until about 1:16 where the Darkness Technique is first used.
Also note that Ganon primarily uses fire magic. How does that stack up on Vampire weaknesses?
And Ganondorf based on ambigious evidence takes 2/3 minutes to take on Zelda and his spells are too slow. Even assuming he can follow a quickly teleporting Kain (I doubt it, theres no evidence to suggest) he is still too slow at casting spells to get Kain in anything, and said spells are useless anyway. Kain just teleports into the sky, spots Ganondorf who thinks hes invisible to Kain and then Kain just rips him apart after teleporting next to him. even if Ganon can see Kain when he appears after each teleport, Ganondorf does not know where Kain will teleport next. Hence why he is screwed.
Even if the time to find Zelda was slow, the spells themselves are relatively quick. The crystal only took a few seconds to form, and the paralysis took effect as soon as he finished talking.
Kain teleports into the sky, sees Ganondorf, and then this happens:
2:20-3:10
Illusions!
Hm, and looks like he located Link much quicker than Zelda (now down to a few seconds), though he did just kidnap her again. Hah, and a near instant ring of fire, too. Isn't fire still a pretty big weakness? Plus a little summoning, but I don't think that's allowed.
Not to mention Ganondorf can fly while Kain can't (without bats), so he's more likely to be in the air watching Kain teleport around fruitlessly. Kain also doesn't know where Ganondorf is going to teleport, either, so it'll still take more luck than actually exists for Kain to find Ganondorf.
Originally posted by NemeBro
The water weakness is not as great as some may think it is, at least that was my understanding.
Kain's immune to rain and such, but large pools of water hurt him. During the course of Defiance, he's able to turn into bats quickly enough to avoid being hurt by the water in lakes etc., but that shows water still has an effect on him.
Originally posted by iChaos
Kain said this in LoK: D. And, if I'm not mistaken, it did some damage to Raziel (Even though I was joking about the "bucket of water" thing.).
Raziel becomes immune to water during the course of Soul Reaver.
Well, this thread basicly outlines everything of importance.
Kain's not a physical contender at all with anyone in this thread, and his magic is all featless, which means he's not a magical contender. He's outclassed in every way, by every character BT was foolish enough to team up against his favoured character.
BT will argue otherwise, but he'll also claim Kain can act before Dante... In closing, every rational person seems to recognise Kain is chanceless against any single character from this thread. BT actually knows this too, but he's good at pretending.
Originally posted by The Scenario
I wasn't paying much attention to what happened before the spellcasting, to be honest. Still, Ganondorf located her out of an entire country. I suppose you're right, though. However, I doubt the shaking is part of the casting.What do we define as TK? From what I've seen, magic can easily substitute. If it's a spell, Ganondorf's magic is still able to lift a castle indefinitely. Minimum 7 years.
Didn't Kain's Reflect spell just block projectiles and bolts? That's what I saw when I checked his KMC wiki entry.
As long as Ganondorf starts knowing where Kain is, he won't have to relocate him. And what are you talking about? Zelda did not escape, especially not by charging it with magic. She was completely paralyzed.
I don't understand what you mean. He won't see the invisibility spell, but he will see Ganondorf? And I doubt Ganondorf's invisibility has anything to do with the Spectral Realm. If his sight was purified, it doesn't mean he can see anything invisible.
If this had been mentioned earlier, we might not have had to waste this time. I was under the impression all water was dangerous to Vampires. The cut Survive by Water spell even specified it protected from rain.
They are separate teleports, so they should be used separately.The fact that he has multiple variations of the same ability tells me there is some bigger difference, anyway.
YouTube video
0:15 disappears
0:16 reappears
0:21 disappears
0:22 reappears
0:37 disappears
0:37 reappears
And so on until about 1:16 where the Darkness Technique is first used.Also note that Ganon primarily uses fire magic. How does that stack up on Vampire weaknesses?
Even if the time to find Zelda was slow, the spells themselves are relatively quick. The crystal only took a few seconds to form, and the paralysis took effect as soon as he finished talking.
Kain teleports into the sky, sees Ganondorf, and then this happens:
2:20-3:10
Illusions!
Hm, and looks like he located Link much quicker than Zelda (now down to a few seconds), though he did just kidnap her again. Hah, and a near instant ring of fire, too. Isn't fire still a pretty big weakness? Plus a little summoning, but I don't think that's allowed.Not to mention Ganondorf can fly while Kain can't (without bats), so he's more likely to be in the air watching Kain teleport around fruitlessly. Kain also doesn't know where Ganondorf is going to teleport, either, so it'll still take more luck than actually exists for Kain to find Ganondorf.
but it "could" be, as it ended as soon as she was captured in the crystal.
mental telekinetic force. e.g. Kinetic energy used with Tk. A lot of "ifs", for all we know Ganon is using the castle that was already through some form of other magic levitating, it being a fictional universe and all, Do we know for a fact Ganondorf is the one levitating it through any method?
What makes you certain of this? you dont know how much of an area Ganondorf can even see, for all we know it could take a few minutes to find someone and he can only see that persons whereabouts. If Kain teleports this may mess him up, mess up his other spells cast time and he will have to restart.
His sight allowed to see an entity that is invisible, therefore Ganondorf will not be hidden.
There is a big difference, a huge one. Kains "dimentional teleport" as the name implies would go through dimensions, his regular teleport likely just works as a magical movement from one place to another on the same plane. In practice they seem similiar.
Fire is no more a weakness to a vampire than it is to anyone who can burn. And Ganon seems to teleport quite slowly, he sort of moves a few meters.
If Ganons in the air it means Kain wont need to get into the air, he will see Ganon in the sky...
Originally posted by Burning thought
but it "could" be, as it ended as soon as she was captured in the crystal.
I don't see why it matters, to be honest.
mental telekinetic force. e.g. Kinetic energy used with Tk. A lot of "ifs", for all we know Ganon is using the castle that was already through some form of other magic levitating, it being a fictional universe and all, Do we know for a fact Ganondorf is the one levitating it through any method?
Magic is causing a change with mental force. Magic can control kinetic energy. No real difference between TK and magic being used for that purpose.
And Ganondorf's castle is right where Hyrule Castle used to be. That lake of lava? Used to be a field. There was nothing acting on the Castle before Ganondorf took over. Now it's floating over an abyss.
What makes you certain of this? you dont know how much of an area Ganondorf can even see, for all we know it could take a few minutes to find someone and he can only see that persons whereabouts. If Kain teleports this may mess him up, mess up his other spells cast time and he will have to restart.
All we know is that Zelda can teleport, but the only way she could avoid capture was by hiding. Either way, Ganondorf can reaquire the target after a few seconds.
His sight allowed to see an entity that is invisible, therefore Ganondorf will not be hidden.
Due to his sight being "purified" by the Soul Reaver. He could probably see the Elder God only because Raziel could. This doesn't mean it works on all invisibility.
There is a big difference, a huge one. Kains "dimentional teleport" as the name implies would go through dimensions, his regular teleport likely just works as a magical movement from one place to another on the same plane. In practice they seem similiar.
It doesn't say this. In fact, the only thing the Dimensional Fragment does is let him teleport in succession.
Fire is no more a weakness to a vampire than it is to anyone who can burn. And Ganon seems to teleport quite slowly, he sort of moves a few meters.
So it affects them like it would a normal human? The wiki notes that it works like sunlight. Says it can't be instantly regenerated and they burn to death.
If Ganons in the air it means Kain wont need to get into the air, he will see Ganon in the sky...
Then switch them. Illusion in the sky, real one on the ground. Or Ganon could hide in the clouds. Kain will never find him.
Originally posted by The Scenario
I don't see why it matters, to be honest.Magic is causing a change with mental force. Magic can control kinetic energy. No real difference between TK and magic being used for that purpose.
And Ganondorf's castle is right where Hyrule Castle used to be. That lake of lava? Used to be a field. There was nothing acting on the Castle before Ganondorf took over. Now it's floating over an abyss.
All we know is that Zelda can teleport, but the only way she could avoid capture was by hiding. Either way, Ganondorf can reaquire the target after a few seconds.
Due to his sight being "purified" by the Soul Reaver. He could probably see the Elder God only because Raziel could. This doesn't mean it works on all invisibility.
It doesn't say this. In fact, the only thing the Dimensional Fragment does is let him teleport in succession.
So it affects them like it would a normal human? The wiki notes that it works like sunlight. Says it can't be instantly regenerated and they burn to death.
Then switch them. Illusion in the sky, real one on the ground. Or Ganon could hide in the clouds. Kain will never find him.
It matters a great deal if it takes him forever to cast slow spells.
If hes using magic then it opens the vast number of questions of "cast time, duration, how he did it etc", if he did it using thought then its different.
She never tried to teleport and she never knew Ganon was watching her. Also assumption, Zelda has a good few minutes of freedom before Ganon starts talking.
Theres nothing that supports this, or even implies it. The EG invisibility is arguably more advanced than Ganondorfs considering he is intangible and not able ot be sensed at the same time.
I assume so, they burn. Simple as that. You have to kill a vampire with fire to truly defeat it. Ofc nobody could burn Kain as he can turn to mist or transform to escape it.
kain will never find him? Kain would just keep teleporting, chances are he will eventually find Ganondorf desperatly attempting to cast spell after spell on a target he cannot track or cast upon in time before he is killed. Kain could swarm the land in his bat form and find Dorf that way. And if Ganons up in the clouds hes going to end up screwed by Kains lightnign storm spell.
Originally posted by Burning thought
It matters a great deal if it takes him forever to cast slow spells.
Too bad it isn't really that slow. It won't matter once the crystal starts, anyway.
If hes using magic then it opens the vast number of questions of "cast time, duration, how he did it etc", if he did it using thought then its different.
Why is thought different? You never heard of an instant cast spell? Zant has proved he can move things without gestures, as has Ganondorf after possessing Zelda.
She never tried to teleport and she never knew Ganon was watching her. Also assumption, Zelda has a good few minutes of freedom before Ganon starts talking.
Not talking about the video. I meant the 7 years Zelda spent hiding.
Theres nothing that supports this, or even implies it. The EG invisibility is arguably more advanced than Ganondorfs considering he is intangible and not able ot be sensed at the same time.
Could Kain see into the spectral realm before?
I assume so, they burn. Simple as that. You have to kill a vampire with fire to truly defeat it. Ofc nobody could burn Kain as he can turn to mist or transform to escape it.
Simple enough, once he's paralyzed in a crystal. Or simply set the ground on fire where he stands. Ganondorf has proven he do that one instantly.
kain will never find him? Kain would just keep teleporting, chances are he will eventually find Ganondorf desperatly attempting to cast spell after spell on a target he cannot track or cast upon in time before he is killed. Kain could swarm the land in his bat form and find Dorf that way. And if Ganons up in the clouds hes going to end up screwed by Kains lightnign storm spell.
Kain still can't see Ganondorf, especially not if he's in the clouds. Kain's teleport will only serve to distract him, while Ganondorf easily tracks him and sets fires everywhere Kain is. I still don't understand why you think randomly teleporting will allow Kain to find Ganondorf. Chances are extremely slim finding one guy who can also teleport.
You are assuming Kain teleports in the right direction. You are assuming Kain sees Ganondorf immediately. You are assuming Kain knows Ganondorf is in the clouds. You are assuming Kain sees through the illusions Ganondorf sets up. You are assuming Ganndorf doesn't ambush Kain when he does attack the illusion.
Ganondorf has proven he can teleports others, so he could just drop Kratos on Kain's head. Or teleport Kain himself into a trap.
Originally posted by The Scenario
Too bad it isn't really that slow. It won't matter once the crystal starts, anyway.Why is thought different? You never heard of an instant cast spell? Zant has proved he can move things without gestures, as has Ganondorf after possessing Zelda.
Not talking about the video. I meant the 7 years Zelda spent hiding.
Could Kain see into the spectral realm before?
Simple enough, once he's paralyzed in a crystal. Or simply set the ground on fire where he stands. Ganondorf has proven he do that one instantly.
Kain still can't see Ganondorf, especially not if he's in the clouds. Kain's teleport will only serve to distract him, while Ganondorf easily tracks him and sets fires everywhere Kain is. I still don't understand why you think randomly teleporting will allow Kain to find Ganondorf. Chances are extremely slim finding one guy who can also teleport.
You are assuming Kain teleports in the right direction. You are assuming Kain sees Ganondorf immediately. You are assuming Kain knows Ganondorf is in the clouds. You are assuming Kain sees through the illusions Ganondorf sets up. You are assuming Ganndorf doesn't ambush Kain when he does attack the illusion.
Ganondorf has proven he can teleports others, so he could just drop Kratos on Kain's head. Or teleport Kain himself into a trap.
huge assumption here. you dont know how fast he casts anything.
Its different because a thought is a thought, its damn fast unlike a spell that can be very slow.
No and he cant now.....
Thats as simple as Kain just gesturing and crushing Ganondorfs throat till he dies. not simple at all.
Yes he can, Kain can see invisible and intangible things and Ganondorf has not proven that he can follow/track entities who are actually teleporting or moving actively, infact his "tracking" may not even be that at all, how he knows where Zelda is is massively amigious and open for interpretation. Because thats what probability is about, if Kain teleports into infinity then the probability is infinite. And Kain can teleport faster than Ganondorf and react faster, chances are he wont get the first teleport off.
He can teleport "others" already inside of magic crystals. Also I doubt this "teleportation" of others, otherwise he could teleport Link or any one of his allies (or all of them one at a time) on top of Link.