Originally posted by Burning thought
based on what evidence?Him taking a supernova does not mean his blood cannot be sprayed throughout his body and cause him to go into cardiac arrest, or make his heart explode. Your trying to claim his blood has some sort of resistance just beacuse he took a little supernova (its not a real supernova, the "sun" was just a lump of magma, not that large.). Yeh I do know this, and Blood shower does not make "burns", it just calls blood and opens the body through sorcery, theres no physical strike involved.
Falliable? hes using a weapon and claiming what it does on first hand knowledge, how is he falliable?
That's the beauty of it, it isn't based on any evidence. Because Blood Shower has never worked on anything with durability.
Blood Shower has never been shown to do that, for one. And for two Kain still has to get it done before Kessler or Ridley stops him. Actually, I'm claiming that Kain can't rip his blood out of his body, because his body took a supernova and Kain doesn't have the ability to pull blood through anything more durable than what, human skin?
Doesn't matter, it still creates a black hole, which takes far more force than Kain can even dream of.
And as for that fallible thing, I find this hilarious, because we made the exact same argument for Ganondorf's knowledge of the Triforce. Yet he was still fallible. Hmm...I smell something fishy. Must be the hosts.
Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
That's the beauty of it, it isn't based on any evidence. Because Blood Shower has never worked on anything with durability.Blood Shower has never been shown to do that, for one. And for two Kain still has to get it done before Kessler or Ridley stops him. Actually, I'm claiming that Kain can't rip his blood out of his body, because his body took a supernova and Kain doesn't have the ability to pull blood through anything more durable than what, human skin?
Doesn't matter, it still creates a black hole, which takes far more force than Kain can even dream of.
And as for that fallible thing, I find this hilarious, because we made the exact same argument for Ganondorf's knowledge of the Triforce. Yet he was still fallible. Hmm...I smell something fishy. Must be the hosts.
So you have no evidence for your assertion that Blood shower is halted by durability?
Your making the assumption that Kain is physically pulling blood through skin through some sort of physical force or something? this is a spell Moocow, that has a specific effect.
Far more force in real life, not in toonforce realm where Stars have cute little eyes and "grow up to be galaxies".
Your argument was different, you assumed Ganon knew everything about the triforce, if your argument was he knew about the exact powers that he has used then you may have a point.
Originally posted by Burning thoughtSeeing as I can't recall these other teleports being used in a cutscene, and there's nothing specified about this one, or mentioned about it prior... You're making assumptions.
Yes, that teleport is the likes of which he probably will not use. his faster reaver based one is a better teleport. As is his "dematerialise" version in Soul reaver 1.Then again, that teleport would get him away from them, and serve its purpose.
Originally posted by Burning thought
So you have no evidence for your assertion that Blood shower is halted by durability?Your making the assumption that Kain is physically pulling blood through skin through some sort of physical force or something? this is a spell Moocow, that has a specific effect.
Far more force in real life, not in toonforce realm where Stars have cute little eyes and "grow up to be galaxies".
Your argument was different, you assumed Ganon knew everything about the triforce, if your argument was he knew about the exact powers that he has used then you may have a point.
Yes, but that doesn't mean I am incorrect. You have no evidence that it isn't. And I believe assuming it would work the same on everything is what we call the no limit fallacy.
Based on what you said he opens the body. It has never opened a durable body.
Must be a point in that somewhere. Ah, there it is. Oh, it's irrelevant. 😬
...what? He uses the Triforce firsthand. That's how Kain has all his knowledge, right? There's that fishy smell again.
Falliable? hes using a weapon and claiming what it does on first hand knowledge, how is he falliable? And no, you still need to prove your assertion, that Kain has to pierce skin to take souls. The Soul reaver if he strikes with the sword, Kain rips a soul out using Soul rip spell.
He is fallible by not being omniscient, as are most beings, which is why when someone says something it is rarely fact unless backed up. For instance if Kain said that the Soul Reaver could even take Gods soul, it would be worthless becuase its never shown that level of power. Just like how its never shown the power to take ouls without making a cut. Not only that but you are basing your entire stance over your interpretation of the word 'strike'. Kain could have misspoke, or simply been wrong, assuming it always takes souls becuase he's never run into someone the sword fails to cut. Either way Kain's opinion does not equal fact.
Not based on feats, based on feats Dante is bested by slower attacks from vergil rather than quicker ones and could not dodge an impalement from Vergil that kain can do quicker.
PIS. Kain couldn't stop Raziel from ripping out his heart and Dante is physically above Raz. Only using characters weakest feats doesn't do justice to their true abilities.
It would allow him to use his blood manipulation spells and TK from range to kill Kratos in one move
Not before Dante appears to hack his head off. Rememer he needs to do all these things while keeping 2 other people off his back.
lol mercer? hes just a lump of viral matter, just rip him apart until he loses his matter. The blood and soul powers would work here as well.
Mercer has neither blood nor a soul, and I very much doubt Kain can rip him apart.
Kain can stop them all from moving using TK alone, especially Dante. Mercer may be able to get free using one of his forms. Kain can get out of their reach in a few teleports only to rip their souls and blood from them. Its all easy stuff.
Kain has only ever TK'd one person at a time to my knowledge and has to concentrate to do it. No good here. And as soon as Kain materialises to do those attacks Dante shoots him in the face.
Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Yes, but that doesn't mean I am incorrect. You have no evidence that it isn't. And I believe assuming it would work the same on everything is what we call the no limit fallacy.Based on what you said he opens the body. It has never opened a durable body.
Must be a point in that somewhere. Ah, there it is. Oh, it's irrelevant. 😬
...what? He uses the Triforce firsthand. That's how Kain has all his knowledge, right? There's that fishy smell again.
The spell is simply a sorcerous ability that drains blood from all enemies in the area. Thats what it does, I am assuming nothing. Your the one who seems to think durability is important despite nothing physical striking the opponent is important without evidence to boot.
Durability is irrelevant, nobody here has feats to suggest their blood vessles can take their own blood pouring throughout the body trying to get to kain, your forgetting the target is the blood, not the body which is why your trying to reach for durability protection.
Originally posted by BloodRain
Doppel>TK >_> Hm Alex cant be beaten by Kain if im thinking right.
Dopel is just a copy cat, a featless one, he will either be hung up in the air like its creator or just left behind with Kratos because its too slow, or cannot make sophisiticated decisions.
Why? Alex cant keep up with a teleporter and he cant survivie being frozen in time and cleaved apart into piecies. His regen only works well when he has humans to absorb.
Originally posted by Nephthys
He is fallible by not being omniscient, as are most beings, which is why when someone says something it is rarely fact unless backed up. For instance if Kain said that the Soul Reaper could even take Gods soul, it would be worthless becuase its never shown that level of power. Just like how its never shown the power to take ouls without making a cut. Not only that but you are basing your entire stance over your interpretation of the word 'strike'. Kain could have misspoke, or simply been wrong, assuming it always takes souls becuase he's never run into someone the sword fails to cut. Either way Kain's opinion does not equal fact.PIS. Kain couldn't stop Raziel from ripping out his heart and Dante is physically above Raz. Only using characters weakest feats doesn't do justice to their true abilities.
Not before Dante appears to hack his head off. Rememer he needs to do all these things while keeping 2 other people off his back.
Mercer has neither blood nor a soul, and I very much doubt Kain can rip him apart.
Kain has only ever TK'd one person at a time to my knowledge and has to concentrate to do it. No good here. And as soon as Kain materialises to do those attacks Dante shoots him in the face.
Hes not fallible, your using it completly wrong and have no idea how to use it by the sounds of things. Apprently a guy who is simply claiming what the sword does based on what hes actually seen is fallible, and your example would indeed be fallible but its nothing to compare to what Kains actually saying. kain simply says "on strike" and it makes sense too, why you belive without evidence that Kain has to cut someone to take souls is confusing to say the least.
name the feat that shows Dante is above Raz....and no thats not PIS, Kains is, but Dante actually tries to stop vergil and fails. Its a fair fight and Dante is bested easily by slower moves. Obviously his reaction time is not as fast as his blind slashes.
Off his back when he could teleport multiple times to make sure their all away from him? they have no chance and his blood shower works on all of them. And why? I dont recall him canonically taking much damage.
Dante is not omnicient, he would not know Kain is behind him and would not react in the 0.2 he has before he is dead. And Kain can use TK shackles to hold enemies in the air seperatly. Tbh he would only need to do it to Dante, the other two are easy game.
Kain can also cast Inspire hate to make one of them kill the others, or mind control.
Originally posted by Son of Sparda
Isn't doppelganger... basically Dante's shadow given sentience though?
In the cutscene all we see is its his shadow given some physical form and it can copy him move for move in the slow punches/kicks exactly. Its like a mirror image almost.
Doppelgänger has all of Dante's combat skills 😬 Two Dantes, ta-da~
Cleaved apart? Reform back, thats if Kains strong enough to. Mercer>Kain strength wise.
Edit: Dante being stabbed can be called PIS just as Kains 'much slower' is. And dont jump on the 'blind slashes' boat, you need alot of evidence to ride it.
Originally posted by BloodRain
Doppelgänger has all of Dante's combat skills 😬 Two Dantes, ta-da~Cleaved apart? Reform back, thats if Kains strong enough to. Mercer>Kain strength wise.
This has not been proven, it just seems to copy what he does but theres nothing to suggest is just as strong, as fast, as clever etc
Based on what? I think the heaviest thing Mercer can lift is a car or something from what I can recall. And Mercer cannot reform without mass, if his body parts were torn off, like Kain he would not be able to regenerate physically.
No thats not true, Kain did nothing to stop Raziels obvious attack which was indeed very slow and much slower than what Kain has reacted to before. Kain was also badly weakened after taking the reaver to the chest. Iirc Dante was not harmed before that point and actually tried, he was bested by a better swordsman. Theres no room for PIS. vergil was superior to him at the time. Raziel on the other hand is weaker in every way than Kain.
Dude... Mercer has thrown much more than a car.
He was stated to have punched through a six feet steel door. Can throw destroyed tanks hundreds of meters into the air... etc.
Doppelganger was also matching Dante blow for blow. That alone should put it at DMC3 Dante level. No idea if it grows in power with him.
Make of that what you will.
Originally posted by Son of Sparda
Dude... Mercer has thrown much more than a car.He was stated to have punched through a six feet steel door. Can throw destroyed tanks hundreds of meters into the air... etc.
Doppelganger was also matching Dante blow for blow. That alone should put it at DMC3 Dante level. No idea if it grows in power with him.
Make of that what you will.
I have never thrown a destroyed tank in the game, although when Tanks get blown up in Prototype theres not a lot left of them. A full operationral Tank weighs less than the 100 tonnes Raziel can push around, and an Abrams which is what the Prototype tanks are only weighs 60 short tonnes. I think the tanks lose their turrets when destroyed dont they?
It was just copying exactly what Dante was doing. The same exact move. Hence why its a doppelganger, its just a copy cat.
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
In gameplay. Can you prove they're even seperate teleports?
Yeh, the one in the cutscene does not use the reaver and is not called the dimentional reaver. The magic Kain uses is white, not green like the dimension reaver as well.
As for the cutscene in SR, Kain does not move his hands or gesture. He just disapears.
Very different teleports.
Originally posted by Burning thought
The spell is simply a sorcerous ability that drains blood from all enemies in the area. Thats what it does, I am assuming nothing. Your the one who seems to think durability is important despite nothing physical striking the opponent is important without evidence to boot.Durability is irrelevant, nobody here has feats to suggest their blood vessles can take their own blood pouring throughout the body trying to get to kain, your forgetting the target is the blood, not the body which is why your trying to reach for durability protection.
Maybe it's just my body, but I've never had a problem with blood leaking out. This would mean it's perfectly sealed, you know, so the blood doesn't leak. In order to drain it, Kain would have to create some sort of opening to get the blood out. And since he's never made an opening on anything durable, well, you know the rest.
Kain doesn't have feats to suggest he can perfectly manipulate blood in whatever way he chooses. Blood Shower could be like a magnet to something like nails. It pulls it one way and one way only. I cannot use a magnet to throw a nail any direction I choose. There is kind of a cool thing of Bowser never taking any injuries, ever. Even a bruise brings blood to the surface, and Bowser has never been bruised by anything, not even his supernova. His blood vessels are just as ubar as his skin.
Yeh, the one in the cutscene does not use the reaver and is not called the dimentional reaver. The magic Kain uses is white, not green like the dimension reaver as well.This is not proof it's a seperate teleport.
We know: Kain can teleport.
We see him do so in a cutscene. The cutscene teleport has no reason to be a seperate teleport other thna your assertions that it looks different. Kain does not learn this other teleport during the course of LoK. It's never mentioned that he has a seperate teleport.
This must be the same teleport he already has. You are assuming he has a whole new teleport based on difference between gameplay and a cutscene. The problem is that obviously the cutscene takes precedence, and there's no proof of a seperate teleport.
Imagine Link had ... Purple! Fire arrows in a cutscene, it would be wrong for me to assume these were new and seperate fire arrows, and that Link has a new spell. This is what you are doing.
No assumptions. Kain's teleportation takes time.