HOM Wanda vs. Thanos w/ IG

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Don't waste my time trying to quaneuver around what you were clearly implying: Associating the ability to claim the pans-dimensional power of the Beyond with the term, "sub-herald," was a transparent ploy and did nothing to support your blanket assertions. What Meggan did was monumental. And using her as a proxy by which to diminish HOM Wanda's own power is folly.

Nope. With your Wanda hype extinguished as a desperate measure you have tried to hype up Meggan so that at least some of Wandas supremacy can be saved in your eyes.

The ploy aint cutting it 😬

Both before and after the HOM incident Meggan has a consistent level of power. She is not a great power in the scheme of things and is certainly sub herald. She absorbed the energies of reality and threw this at the Wave and that was enough to stop it.

Boohoo for your interpretation. 😂

We dont need to go back and forth on this point. Im not going to validate your nitpicking when the argument has been won.

The No More Mutants spell was applied to 616 and carried into the multiverse via the connected relationship of realities within a multiverse. A point verified by the Endangered Species title showing only future alternate realities were affected 🙂

The Chaos Wave whilst obviously a derivative of Wandas reality manipulations wasnt itself consciously created, directed and maintained by Wanda. Her amateur reality tamperings were just its trigger 🙂

The Chaos Wave didnt spread into all realities simultaneously collapsing them across the multiverse. Instead as explicitly shown on panel, it collided with the keystone of reality, Otherworld, this compromised the structures integrity causing realities to collapse in on each other. Not all realities just some. Massive demotion from the waves previous hype maintained position.

The Wave was stopped by Excalibur. A band of sub herald characters. Before someone starts crying, im not saying any sub herald characters could do the job, just these ones 😄

Its good to be back 😱

^ Dude. You keep harping on about how the Chaos Wave only extended to alternate realities because of the 616 universe's status as a cornerstone/lynchpin/main domino, etc.

And not once have you been able to point to any instance in Marvel history where a distortion in the 616 universe's reality/history caused such a monumentally catastrophic effect throughout all alternate universes, whether it washed through Otherworld or not. There's a reason for the colossal difference here.

I can't possibly guess what your motivations are for downplaying HOM Wanda or Meggan, but throwing out terms like "sub heralds" and ignoring how entities well beyond "sub heralds" couldn't do squat against the Chaos Wave directly -- save for Meggan who harnessed the pans-dimensional power of the Beyond -- reveals a sharp vulnerability in your rationalizations that undercuts everything else you're building on your insipid quaneuvers.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Dude. You keep harping on about how the Chaos Wave only extended to alternate realities because of the 616 universe's status as a cornerstone/lynchpin/main domino, etc.

This is a sad thing to see. It appears the dissection and consequent hammering your interpretation has taken has reduced you to a state of confusion.

The Chaos Wave and the No More Mutants spell are two separate things

The Chaos Wave was the leakover of the distorted 616 reality through its dimensional wall. It affected various realities in the multiverse not directly by expanding into them all simultaneously, but instead as depicted by colliding with the keystone(Otherworld) that is connected with all of these realities. Triggered by Wanda, not created or controlled by Wanda

So if we're weighing up feats of Wandas for versus match purposes, the Chaos Wave is irrelevant.

The No More Mutants spell was a direct manifestation of Wandas power however she never directly extended this into the entire multiverse as claimed. As shown she applied it to the the present of 616 in HOM. As shown by the Endangered Species timeline this spell affected many world NOT all realities of the multiverse.

What ones specifically? 😖hifty:

The future ones 😄

Nuff said.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
And not once have you been able to point to any instance in Marvel history where a distortion in the 616 universe's reality/history caused such a monumentally catastrophic effect throughout all alternate universes, whether it washed through Otherworld or not. There's a reason for the colossal difference here.

I've just had a revelation my young friend. Do you know why the Chaos Wave leaked specifically into Otherworld?

It was direction from Wanda as you would so wish my friend.

Guess where the tear in the dimensional wall was? Just guess guess.

The foundations of Excaliburs lighthouse 😄

And what was this lighthouse? 😖hifty:

It was the cosmic lynchpin that Merlyn and Feron had the Phoenix Force project to link all realities to Otherworld:

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

This is too good 😆

So there you have it.

Not only is the Chaos Wave stated on panel to have just been triggered by Wandas reality alteration. But the reason it collided with Otherworld. is as your fantasies would dictate because of some unmentioned direction from Wanda, but simply because the alteration ruptured a weakpoint in reality, the connection and gateway to Otherworld that the Phoenix Force established, Excaliburs very own lighthouse.

Thats why the wave ended up in Otherworld and by colliding with Otherworld, the intersection where all realities are connected, it compromised the integrity of the structure causing some of these realities to collapse on each other.

This is well and truly over ODG 🙂

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I can't possibly guess what your motivations are for downplaying HOM Wanda or Meggan, but throwing out terms like "sub heralds" and ignoring how entities well beyond "sub heralds" couldn't do squat against the Chaos Wave directly -- save for Meggan who harnessed the pans-dimensional power of the Beyond -- reveals a sharp vulnerability in your rationalizations that undercuts everything else you're building on your insipid quaneuvers.

And how often do cosmics sit back whilst the heroes go around saving reality? Thats a standard occurence in many comics and not just Marvel ones. If it wasnt for the X-men, the multiverse wouldve been destroyed by the M'Kraan crystal and not one cosmic got involved. This is true for the Phoenix Saga and the AOA Saga.

Your point is weak. Im not downplaying them at all. Im correctly interpreting on panel occurences whilst you on the other hand are exaggerating them purely to win this debate with these guys about the IG.

All of your points about Wanda have now been countered, the range of her x-gene spell, her involvement or lack of involvement with the Chaos Wave. I've also just established why the Chaos Wave travelled where it did completely putting an end to your your dreams of a Wanda controlled manifestation. Commisserations 🙁

No more needs to be said. That will be all.

^ You're still missing the point. You keep relying on farcical conjecture to act like you're gaining ground but you've circled right back to where you started:

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Plus all the alternate realities of the multiverse spring from 616 which is what makes it a multiverse. So any application of power made to 616 would indirectly be carried across to these other realities. Not through exertion by Wanda who at no point showed such power, but due to the nature of 616 and its spin off realities.

Any medium to high level cosmic with powers on a universal scale(think Galactus and above) would be too much for her.

Furthermore looking at the chaos wave and all the damage it did and using that as a direct guide to her power level is also illogical, because the chaos wave as directly stated on panel was a side affect of Wandas reality warping in 616. It wasnt directly created, sustained or directed by Wanda so all it did cannot be attributed to her. Its like me setting off an avalanche through reckless shouting, destroying a nearby village. Am i directly responsible for the destruction or did i trigger it? Could i go down to buildings of the village and directly shout them to pieces?

The 616 universe's reality/history has been distorted dozens of times on-panel, and nothing on the magnitude of the Chaos Wave has EVER occurred. Why? What distinguishes it?

The answer is in the many descriptions attributed directly to Wanda's power and the Chaos Wave. But we haven't even gotten that far yet until you stare at the question and stop fleeing from it.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ On-panel > bio:

^ You already admitted that you quanchiwaffled. So drop the act and stop trying to save face. You established an opinion based on evidence on an issue. That first opinion you admit is wrong now. So pat yourself on the back for you being "wrong" the first time around and sticking your foot in your mouth for ridiculing everybody else that thought different.

Then you decided to look at the same issue and the same exact evidence and changed your mind, shamelessly. An admission that your own initial position was entirely flawed. But it didn't end there, did it?

Because you were engaging in semantics and were cornered into turning an about-face again... on the SAME exact issue based on the SAME exact evidence to your "wrong" initial position again.

And now, having spun yourself around so dizzy without being able to engage in any sort of rebuttal, you decide to wholeheartedly admit you were wrong again. Wrong as you always were from the beginning.

There's no pride to be taken for being "right" now, even if it is in your own head. We all know what you were forced to do based on your so-called debating: admit your rationale was faulty and defeated three times over. And this is just the start.

You think your shoddy reliance on handbooks only leads to worrying deconstructions of your cosmic hierarchy as it pertains to A.Maelstrom > IG-Thanos alone? Shall we post what they say about THOTU?

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ You already admitted that you quanchiwaffled. So drop the act and stop trying to save face. You established an opinion based on evidence on an issue. That first opinion you admit is wrong now. So pat yourself on the back for you being "wrong" the first time around and sticking your foot in your mouth for ridiculing everybody else that thought different.

Then you decided to look at the same issue and the same exact evidence and changed your mind, shamelessly. An admission that your own initial position was entirely flawed. But it didn't end there, did it?

Because you were engaging in semantics and were cornered into turning an about-face again... on the SAME exact issue based on the SAME exact evidence to your "wrong" initial position again.

And now, having spun yourself around so dizzy without being able to engage in any sort of rebuttal, you decide to wholeheartedly admit you were wrong again. Wrong as you always were from the beginning.

There's no pride to be taken for being "right" now, even if it is in your own head. We all know what you were forced to do based on your so-called debating: admit your rationale was faulty and defeated three times over. And this is just the start.

You think your shoddy reliance on handbooks only leads to worrying deconstructions of your cosmic hierarchy as it pertains to A.Maelstrom > IG-Thanos alone? Shall we post what they say about THOTU?

^ On-panel evidence has already proved that Abraxas' actions weren't erased. FF, Watcher, Namorita and Franklin all remember what happened. Surfer is gliding around Manhattan when he shoulda been in space (where he was before being summoned by Reed). Galactus wasn't reverted to a star. Franklin had his powers exhausted for years. Valeria wasn't back with Roma.

You don't ignore what's on-panel and rely on bios exclusively here. Otherwise the village idiot will make the argument that Thanos can't use matter manipulation because that's exactly what it says in his bio, despite what's shown on-panel. But if you want that role, by all means. For you, "bios > on-panel evidence."

And thus for you, A.Maelstrom is superior to IG-Thanos. As confirmed by the bios you've become so reliant on. I'm curious how reliant you'll be on them after these next few scans...

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ On-panel evidence has already proved that Abraxas' actions weren't erased. FF, Watcher, Namorita and Franklin all remember what happened. Surfer is gliding around Manhattan when he shoulda been in space (where he was before being summoned by Reed). Galactus wasn't reverted to a star. Franklin had his powers exhausted for years. Valeria wasn't back with Roma.

You don't ignore what's on-panel and rely on bios exclusively here. Otherwise the village idiot will make the argument that Thanos can't use matter manipulation because that's exactly what it says in his bio, despite what's shown on-panel. But if you want that role, by all means. For you, "bios > on-panel evidence."

And thus for you, A.Maelstrom is superior to IG-Thanos. As confirmed by the bios you've become so reliant on. I'm curious how reliant you'll be on them after these next few scans...

This has nothing to do with Maelstrom. You have gotten to be so quick to jump to another topic because you are beaten and to take the pressure off. Myself, gs, mr. mr, kt, and even bb has stomped you on this topic.

^ Actual comic shows it's not true. Same way actual comic shows it's not true that Thanos doesn't have matter manipulation capabilities. Keep ignoring that on-panel, Abraxas' past actions weren't completely erased.

It absolutely does have to do with him. Because I know what your true opinion of handbooks is since you've ridiculed people in the past over them. Trying to act like they're probative evidence when you can't even admit that those same sources assert A.Maelstrom > IG-Thanos is hypocrisy.

Hypocrites don't have arguments. So don't project others' arguments onto yourself. They don't unilaterally dismiss on-panel evidence. You're so desperate to maintain your cosmic hierarchy based on hypocrisy, you've completely reduced it to shambles via same.

Go cry over Brevoort confirming Marvel: The End isn't canon or something. Or cry over what the handbooks say about THOTU. You're done. And you essentially were the first time you quanchiwaffled so blatantly over your non-sensical position.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Actual comic shows it's not true. Same way actual comic shows it's not true that Thanos doesn't have matter manipulation capabilities. Keep ignoring that on-panel, Abraxas' past actions weren't completely erased.

It absolutely does have to do with him. Because I know what your true opinion of handbooks is since you've ridiculed people in the past over them. Trying to act like they're probative evidence when you can't even admit that those same sources assert A.Maelstrom > IG-Thanos is hypocrisy.

Hypocrites don't have arguments. So don't project others' arguments onto yourself. They don't unilaterally dismiss on-panel evidence. You're so desperate to maintain your cosmic hierarchy based on hypocrisy, you've completely reduced it to shambles via same.

Go cry over Brevoort confirming Marvel: The End isn't canon or something. Or cry over what the handbooks say about THOTU. You're done. And you essentially were the first time you quanchiwaffled so blatantly over your non-sensical position.

Where does it state in the comic the un remakes the multiverse?

Here we go to you trying to change the subject again because you are a sore loser.

^ And the bio states Thanos doesn't have matter manipulation. And the bio confirms A.Maelstrom superiority to IG-Thanos. You love bios.

When it blew up and recreated the Multi-Eternity that was introduced in that very same arc, and after Reed said the UN could destroy the Multiverse. My question is, where does it state in the comic the UN only targeted/erased Abraxas' past actions?

Your shoddy cosmic hierarchy has always been the subject. And how you place Thanos-related items/characters there. Especially since you're so high on handbooks now. Did you really think you could improve your position this way? Not really.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ And the bio states Thanos doesn't have matter manipulation. And the bio confirms A.Maelstrom superiority to IG-Thanos. You love bios.

When it blew up and recreated the Multi-Eternity that was introduced in that very same arc, and after Reed said the UN could destroy the Multiverse. My question is, where does it state in the comic the UN only targeted/erased Abraxas' past actions?

Your shoddy cosmic hierarchy has always been the subject. And how you place Thanos-related items/characters there. Especially since you're so high on handbooks now. Did you really think you could improve your position this way? Not really.

They never stated the multiverse was remade ever after this was done anywhere you all you have is speculation.

^ No, the point is, just because a handbook says something doesn't make it true. And since I've pointed out on-panel evidence that shows the handbook statement isn't true, we thus have an instance where the handbooks are wrong.

How hilarious for you to pose a question as if somebody not stating "Multiverse was destroyed" is dispositive of it actually being destroyed. Not only was the Multi-Eternity that was introduced IN that specific arc blown up, but Reed even outright said that the UN could destroy the Multiverse. It's not my fault you can't put one and one together and come out with two.

But what's even more hilarious is that your reliance on the absence of such a statement, can be thrown right back in your face: When was it stated that Reed targeted/destroyed only Abraxas' past actions? When was it even foreshadowed like how it was with the UN? How do you like relying on your negative proof rationale now? Did you like avoiding my question after I answered your's? Typical.

All you have is your favorite stories not being what you wanted them to be. And they're not what you want them to be based on your own shoddy reliance on interviews and handbooks. Cry more.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ No, the point is, just because a handbook says something doesn't make it true. And since I've pointed out on-panel evidence that shows the handbook statement isn't true, we thus have an instance where the handbooks are wrong.

How hilarious for you to pose a question as if somebody not stating "Multiverse was destroyed" is dispositive of it actually being destroyed. Not only was the Multi-Eternity that was introduced IN that specific arc blown up, but Reed even outright said that the UN could destroy the Multiverse. It's not my fault you can't put one and one together and come out with two.

But what's even more hilarious is that your reliance on the absence of such a statement, can be thrown right back in your face: When was it stated that Reed targeted/destroyed only Abraxas' past actions? When was it even foreshadowed like how it was with the UN? How do you like relying on your negative proof rationale now? Did you like avoiding my question after I answered your's? Typical.

All you have is your favorite stories not being what you wanted them to be. And they're not what you want them to be based on your own shoddy reliance on interviews and handbooks. Cry more.

I am not crying I am laughing at how wrong you've been for years while I eventually got it right because I am not stubborn like you are.

^ I actually already proved this issue to you once:

Originally posted by quanchi112
Ok, I wasn't rereading this arc. I guess with the evidence it does seem to point towards a multiverse. This is the proof I have been asking for so I don't know why it took you this long to post it.

We'll see how much you laugh at what these handbooks say about THOTU. And we know where your arguments are with respect to A.Maelstrom > IG-Thanos. You're not eventually getting it right. Who knows what your position will be tomorrow. And without a position, you're neither right, nor wrong on any issue. You're just quanchiwaffling. And in doing so, you're not doing anything right.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ I actually already proved this issue to you once: Just because you're taking great pains to dredge up your admission doesn't change the fact that NONE of the facts and evidence has changed since you made your admission.

We'll see how much you laugh at what these handbooks say about THOTU. And we know where your arguments are with respect to A.Maelstrom > IG-Thanos. You're not eventually getting it right. You're quanchiwaffling. Who knows what your position is tomorrow.

When does it state in the comic the multiverse was remade?

^ We are discussing your shoddy reliance on handbooks. We are discussing your "evidence." Stop acting like this isn't on-topic. THOTU absorbed a universe. A.Maelstrom > IG-Thanos. You love handbooks.

They showed it. Multi-Eternity goes bye-bye when the UN is fired. After all, it's just like you said:

Originally posted by quanchi112
Ok, I wasn't rereading this arc. I guess with the evidence it does seem to point towards a multiverse. This is the proof I have been asking for so I don't know why it took you this long to post it.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ We are discussing your shoddy reliance on handbooks. We are discussing your "evidence." Stop acting like this isn't on-topic. THOTU absorbed a universe. A.Maelstrom > IG-Thanos. You love handbooks.

They showed it. Multi-Eternity goes bye-bye when the UN is fired. After all, it's just like you said: Same evidence. Same issue. Same butt-hurt... so why different opinion today? Oh... right... I guess it's not the same butt-hurt. Because somehow... you let it actually increase until you couldn't take it anymore. Hence, different opinion today. Quanchiwaffling ftw.

You have zero proof it ever restarted the multiverse and the bio flat out denies it. it just ended a universe and undid his actions.

Ig>Maelstrom>un.

Originally posted by quanchi112
My logic doesn't dictate what's more powerful based on multiverse, universe, etc. that's always been a fool's errand hence most of your posts, onedumbguy.

Originally posted by quanchi112
You have zero proof it ever restarted the multiverse and the bio flat out denies it. it just ended a universe and undid his actions.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Ok, I wasn't rereading this arc. I guess with the evidence it does seem to point towards a multiverse. This is the proof I have been asking for so I don't know why it took you this long to post it.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Ig>Maelstrom>un.