Stealth Moose
Umbrella Elite
Originally posted by FrothByte
Let's think about this again:1. You have two Vietnam-era Army veterans who have pretty much the same base training... but they aren't base level soldiers and we can assume they received higher training.
But you can't verify it for either party. So instead of speculating, go with what you know. The US Army has basic H2H techniques, combatives, CQC, etc. that they train to all their troops. This kind of training is explicitly given more emphasis for spec ops style soldiers, of which Rambo and Dutch both belonged to. They are peers in a very big way and this fight is a better matchup because of it.
2. We can't assume that one has had more training than the other. We can however see from multiple examples that Rambo has demonstrated his fighting ability. Dutch has zero feats that demonstrate his fighting ability.3. One person is bigger, one is smaller. If you automatically assume that the bigger opponent is stronger, then it's just fair to automatically assume that the smaller opponent is faster. Both are key elements to winning a fight.
Right, which is why I gave Dutch a 70-80% win margin out of 10 fights. I don't have to prove that Dutch dominates conclusively every time; I just have to make an argument for him winning more often than not. In any case, his speed only benefits him if he can pummel before Dutch can react, and avoid in-close where his smaller size would not benefit him as much. Hit and run, basically.
This would go better for your argument if you could demonstrate Rambo defeating someone in H2H who is in the same ballpark as himself/Dutch.
4. You're only basis for claiming Dutch is stronger is because he deadlifted the rear of a truck.
This was reinforced with Arnold's real world feats. If you are applying any kind of consistent logic, you have to agree that the characters directly mirror the physical characteristics of their actors. Arnold can deadlift 560 lbs, and was a body builder for years. His physical strength is immense, and he set records IIRC. Sly, while receiving similar training from Mr. Olympia legend Lou Ferrigno, did not grow as big, for two reasons: he is naturally smaller, and he did not want to be as large. His boxer persona was smaller.
In turns of agility, endurance, and overall fitness, Rambo/Sly at his peak might eclipse Dutch/Arnold.
Rambo was able to hang on to a cliff face using only his fingers if memory serves me correct. Both are very good examples of different kinds of strenght.
Right, but he doesn't need insane climbing skills to win this fight. There are great mountain climbers who compete in American Ninja all the time. I don't see them beating anyone else by virtue of strong fingers.
5. You claim they're only mall cops and may not be that much trained. I agree. That still doesn't change the fact that Rambo has at least demonstrated his fighting ability against able men whereas Dutch has never demonstrated his. Rambo has at least demonstrated that he knows how to evade a punch. Dutch hasn't.
Absence is proof is not proof of absence though. The only person Dutch had to throw down with was the Predator, who has strength far surpassing humans and durability off of the charts. The Predator picks Dutch up by the neck and holds him aloft using one hand.
I would concede this point if Dutch did not have damn near the same training, but he does. He is not a mall cop. He is not a faceless mook. On paper, Rambo and Dutch are very similar, and one is bigger and stronger.
Also, Sly said he would lose to Arnold.
Spoiler:
I kid, honestly these days Sly would take Arnold to the cleaners.