Collateral Murder vid

Originally posted by Ushgarak
See, this is part of the thing that makes me rather contemptuous of some claims in this thread that you can definitely tell that there was no such weaponry- when even the people posting the footage think an RPG was there (and, as it turns out, early drafts of their video even had this captioned).

Keep looking until you find it, I guess. Some people say it might be a camera tripod. But as I say, general feeling is coming to the point where it is felt the group was definitely armed.

Early drafts? So the video's been edited?

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Good movie.

great pizza too ✅

Originally posted by Robtard
Early drafts? So the video's been edited?

Of course it has! The raw footage is some 40 minutes long, and obviously you can see the annotations they added. The video has been slowed and zoomed at some points to make clear that the cameramen were... well, cameramen.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
I'm sure everyone in Iraq is armed (explaining their low crime rate!) but who had the RPG?

Originally posted by Ushgarak
See, this is part of the thing that makes me rather contemptuous of some claims in this thread that you can definitely tell that there was no such weaponry- when even the people posting the footage think an RPG was there (and, as it turns out, early drafts of their video even had this captioned).

Keep looking until you find it, I guess. Some people say it might be a camera tripod. But as I say, general feeling is coming to the point where it is felt the group was definitely armed.

from my interpretation it is that the camera men had rifles (bodyguards), but that the RPG was found among the insurgent combatants.

However, going by the testimony of American soldiers who participated in the "winter soldier" demonstrations, there was at least a policy of some regiments to drop AK-47s on the bodies of unarmed victims so they could be described as enemy combatants.

As to what, if any, weapons were being carried by the press, we will probably have to wait for additional investigations. I personally don't believe the US military is a reliable source on this issue.

Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
great pizza too ✅

A bit greasy, imo. Also, that Berkeley smell permeates the place, so it's hard to enjoy food.

Originally posted by Robtard
Early drafts? So the video's been edited?

YouTube video

Al Jazeera English posted this to their youtube site, it appears to be unedited.

The zooming is, afaik, the gunner zooming in on the target.

It is also important to note that the man who was in the van (the man with the children) was the only car on the streets for blocks, and was identified right at the beginning as a potential target driving around potential insurgents.

EDIT: also, there is CLEARLY at least a second gunship firing further down the street (to the left from the camera's perspective) from the one we are describing... it also opens fire on the van...

EDIT 2: god, should have watched it again before commenting, but listen to the chatter, the forces who had to move south to the bodies were incapable because they had engaged AK47 and RPG fire.

Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
no inimalist, you dont understand. these soldiers are capitalist demons. they wanted to kill them all.

i think you need to wake up and accept the fact that the western based NWO is taking over.

My cheque from Haliburton shows up on Monday

Originally posted by inimalist
My cheque from Haliburton shows up on Monday

It's endorsed with Cheney's semen.

Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
how is that a bad thing? what were they supposed to do? cry? sit there silently and let it all sink in so that they could come home with PTD?

It is most certaintly a bad thing. You join the army you sign up to kill other human beings, like a hit man only made legalised, so I have no pity for soldiers they get what they deserve.

I think its sickening to see people laugh at the killing of others, especially innocents, thats why I think its a bad thing. The dialogue between the soldiers is horrific, they are butchering the common man in the name of western imperialism how is that NOT bad?

Now that Ush and others have provided more information I can sort of see the other point of view.

And don't judge me because I hate war, I apologise for believing in peace and humanity i didn't know those were considered bad things to strive for.

Originally posted by Liberator
Now that Ush and others have provided more information I can sort of see the other point of view.

And don't judge me because I hate war, I apologise for believing in peace and humanity i didn't know those were considered bad things to strive for.

maybe do the research before stringing together the most creative insults you can come up with

it makes others who might wish to oppose war look infantile

lol, something I had to learn myself 🙂

Originally posted by Robtard
It's endorsed with Cheney's semen.

delicious

Originally posted by Liberator
You join the army you sign up to kill other human beings

Only a small minority of soldiers join the army just so that they can murder people. People who casually buck the social norm of "killing should be avoided" don't handle military structure well. You can argue that soldiers are mislead about what the army does but their not the inhuman monsters you act like they are.

Originally posted by Liberator
like a hit man only made legalised, so I have no pity for soldiers they get what they deserve.

That's a poor analogy. As you can plainly see in the video soldier are not authorized to slaughter people willy-nilly. In fact their dialogue makes it seem that they weren't going to do anything until they saw a weapon that could destroy the helicopter.

Originally posted by Liberator
It is most certaintly a bad thing. You join the army you sign up to kill other human beings, like a hit man only made legalised, so I have no pity for soldiers they get what they deserve.

I think its sickening to see people laugh at the killing of others, especially innocents, thats why I think its a bad thing. The dialogue between the soldiers is horrific, they are butchering the common man in the name of western imperialism how is that NOT bad?

Now that Ush and others have provided more information I can sort of see the other point of view.

And don't judge me because I hate war, I apologise for believing in peace and humanity i didn't know those were considered bad things to strive for.

It is like you're a walking mouthpiece for some annoying teenage anarchist rebel that runs around and spouts stock Bakunin (or Marxist) phrases about the evils of Imperialistic Capitalism and then somehow tie that into the reactions of the soldiers. Apparently because they weren't weeping and in tears they must be callous imperialistic douchebags.

They are soldiers and shit happens in war, get over it.

Originally posted by Liberator
I've re-watched the video at least a dozen times.

Dude....That means you've spent at least 3 hours and 36 minutes watching that same damn vid. 😬

If you did that, you've got waaaaaay too much time on your hands.

Originally posted by Liberator
They had a guy shooting? I saw none of that. Shooting photography maybe.

Watch this vid from 1:37 till 1:47.

YouTube video

Dude was an idiot to do shit like that. I had to double take to see if I could make out what he was doing...looked very suspicious, to me. You do know that this was the same area that a ground battle had just been fought in, right? That's why they had the apache, circling the area.

Again, those two journalists made very stupid mistakes, that day.

Originally posted by Liberator
They didn't even assess them at all, they just opened fire on them and butchered them.

Not only is that incorrect, you obviously didn't watch the videos 12+ times like you claimed.

Originally posted by Liberator
"All you gotta do is pick up a weapon" These "soldiers" aren't looking for anything than a blood bath.

Then there's the other side: because they were sending in their ground forces and didn't want them to get shot to pieces by a man on the ground with an AK-47.

😬

Originally posted by Liberator
They aren't even thinking, the insurgents aren't idiots if they were just blown apart by a helicoptor they wouldn't have sent a ****ing van to pick them up. Trigger happy morons like this, shoot first ask questions later eh?

Oh, you mean that same van that was circling the area before the events of the vid, during the events of the vid, and right up to the point where they start picking up "insurgents?" Why were those idiots even doing that?

Originally posted by Liberator
There was never any sign of threat to the helicoptor pilots themselves, I'm not even sure the camera crew knew they were there, and if they were didn't really seem to care. Funny, I thought insurgents would take cover and shoot at such targets, not walk about in the open and laugh.

Watch this vid from 1:37 till 1:47.

YouTube video

Originally posted by Liberator
This wasn't some innocent mistake,

You're right: there was intel before the vid even started that indicated insurgents were meeting up. Then some idiot bozos start pointing their cameras in odd ways, gathering as groups (both major no-nos that journalists should know better on...especially in a fresh battle zone....and where was their friggin' body armor?) making for a weird situation that was gray, at worst, and very indicative of offensive activities, at best.

Originally posted by Liberator
there was no sign of threat, there was what, three or four AK-47s? That automatically qualifies someone as an insurgent? This is utterly disgusting, a fine example of the true colours of war. There is no honour, no glory, nothing to gain but the blood and tears of innocents.

Yeah, there was a sign of threat. Had I been in the same situation, I would have quickly piloted the heli out of the firing sights of what appeared to be prep to launch a shoulder fired rocket or at least an RPG.

And, I agree with that last part.

I'd like to blame it on poor video stability/resolution, and the poor decisions of the two reporters.

Edit -

Originally posted by inimalist
Liberator: Not that I dsagree that more could have been done to prevent the shooting of the news reporter, and especially of the unarmed man in the van, there are some realities of this situation that I think you aren't appreciating.

One of the main reasons I posted the Al Jazeera video is for some of the context their guests give. For instance, what you can't see in the Apache video are the American troops who are less than 2 blocks away, currently engaged in a firefight with individuals who were in fact targeting them with RPG fire.

The streets were empty, as a battle was onging, save for US forces, insurgent forces, and a small group of reporters with none of the typical "press" gear that is worn on the battleground. For instance, reporters in Palestine are never without bright blue helmets and vests that clearly say PRESS on them.

There is a good reason for this too, as insurgents will dress up like the press to stage attacks. From this point of view, anybody on the battlefield is unfortunatly a potential target. This isn't just an unfortunate coincidence, insurget groups, dating back to the Zealots of Rome, want such military reactions as are depicted in this video in order to garner support for their cause.

Like, watch the video. The pilot never identifies targets themself, they are told where the targets are by people currently engaged in a firefight. Sure, that doesn't justify the action, but if you think it is "trigger happy" to light up a target you are being told has an RPG and might use it to kill your fellow troops, you are mistaken. The context makes it almost negligent not to open fire, but I don't accept that either really.

This clearly isn't a case of black and white morality. Sure it is tragic, but think of all the lives that have been lost already because insurgent fighters will make themselves appear to be civilians or the press. Issues like these are symptomatic of the ridiculous context of this war, not from soldiers being crazy.

Inimalist did a much better job of explaining shit than I did.

I still don't like the fact that innocents were killed and I really detest US occupation anywhere, but it's not a case of US soliders going ape shit and being trigger happy.

Originally posted by Autokrat
It is like you're a walking mouthpiece for some annoying teenage anarchist rebel that runs around and spouts stock Bakunin (or Marxist) phrases about the evils of Imperialistic Capitalism and then somehow tie that into the reactions of the soldiers. Apparently because they weren't weeping and in tears they must be callous imperialistic douchebags.

They are soldiers and shit happens in war, get over it.

Well what else are they? Its common knowledge the US is an imperialist nation, its common knowledge the military is the sword of the country sent out to do the politicians dirty work...

War should be avoided at all costs, this war specifically is a war for Empire whether you'd like to believe it or not.

Originally posted by Liberator
War should be avoided at all costs, this war specifically is a war for Empire whether you'd like to believe it or not.

That begs the question, what's wrong with an empire?

Originally posted by Robtard
It's endorsed with Cheney's semen.

😆 😆 😆

WTF?

Originally posted by Robtard
That begs the question, what's wrong with an empire?

Indeed. Many experts believe that the sting of hte Yuuzhan Vong would have been almost negligble with the Empire still around. So that makes you point a FACT!

Originally posted by Robtard
That begs the question, what's wrong with an empire?

Space stations that can destroy worlds, dark siders hell bent on destruction, emotionless killing machines in white armor.......

Originally posted by dadudemon
Indeed. Many experts believe that the sting of hte Yuuzhan Vong would have been almost negligble with the Empire still around. So that makes you point a FACT!

Nah, they didn't need the Empire. It's really just that the Republic just should have put more work into capturing those neat designs.

Originally posted by dadudemon
😆 😆 😆

WTF?

Indeed. Many experts believe that the sting of hte Yuuzhan Vong would have been almost negligble with the Empire still around. So that makes you point a FACT!