Pokemon v.s. Final Fantasy, with less speculation!

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
It's not a move you can use outside of battle IN THE GAMES. Are you really so thick skulled that you think that means they can't use moves outside of battle? I know you're an FF fan, but you are smarter than that.

Charizard would not melt that rock with fire hot enough to melt a 10,000 ton glacier. As I said before, he would incinerate it.

Exactly, because I'm talking about the games. Of course Blastoise can shoot water outside of a battle, duh. My point is, his water passing through steel seems exaggerated and there's not evidence of that, even if you deny it. What if I like Final Fantasy? What that have to do with anything we're discussing? I also like Pokemon, you know?

I am sorry. Charizard did what the Pokedex said. I have read that in the Bulbapedia.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Imagine making the actual abilities of every Pokemon being available to them in these games. All 493 Pokemon. The ones that can fly can fly, the ones that breathe fire can now set anything on fire, the ones that can shoot water blast it whenever they want, wherever they want. How much space do you think there is on a DS cartridge? Not enough for all of this.

Then why the hell they do made those inconsistent descriptions? Who said you need the 493 Pokemons to do a job? With the supposed Blastoise's water passing through steel and Machamp moving a mountain with a single arm, you wouldn't need anyone aside from them, don't you think? That's why Anime DO show what they can really perform in a real battle and with more coherence aspects. The game it's an RPG. Anime its live motion, it is more logical AND it's canon. You'll have to deal with it, mate. There's nothing you can change.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
So all Turtwig can move as fast as Gardenia's? Can all Lairon hurt themselves by smashing their face into rocks, despite having the Rock Head ability? All Magikarp must truly be as useful as the one that beat Pikachu, too, right?

The Game > The Anime, so, no, it doesn't exaggerate. Lol? You don't believe water can cut through steel? Why not? I know the meaning of hyperbole, someone before you has tried to tell me I didn't. As it turned out, they were the ones who didn't actually know the definition.

Rock Head ability? That's not the name of an Gameplay attack? I haven't played any game, but that sounds like an attack you use in the Gameplay if I am not mistaken. You can't use them as evidence, I'm afraid. Unless this is a battle using game's mechanic and Gameplay elements.

I'd say: Anime > Games. Of course the games are exaggerate. You can't blame if in the Anime you saw comical scenes like: The Team Rocket flying after an explosion or Ash being incinerated by Charizard's fire breath, because it's obvious for comical purposes. But if you're the one that believes water can pass through steel with a single shot, then the burden of proof is in you, I never saw water passing through steel nor Blastoise doing it. If you know the meaning of hyperbole, then you're indeed ignoring the fact that those descriptions are hyperbole and rather fallacious even if they are 'official statements'.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
Exactly, because I'm talking about the games. Of course Blastoise can shoot water outside of a battle, duh. My point is, his water passing through steel seems exaggerated and there's not evidence of that, even if you deny it. What if I like Final Fantasy? What that have to do with anything we're discussing? I also like Pokemon, you know?

I am sorry. Charizard did what the Pokedex said. I have read that in the Bulbapedia.

The Pokedex is the evidence of it. It isn't exaggerated. Absolutely nothing, but for some reason you seem to think me being a Pokemon fanboy influences my decision. So I merely assumed the same about you.

Game Charizard > Anime Charizard, lol.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
Then why the hell they do made those inconsistent descriptions? Who said you need the 493 Pokemons to do a job? With the supposed Blastoise's water passing through steel and Machamp moving a mountain with a single arm, you wouldn't need anyone aside from them, don't you think? That's why Anime DO show what they can really perform in a real battle and with more coherence aspects. The game it's an RPG. Anime its live motion, it is more logical AND it's canon. You'll have to deal with it, mate. There's nothing you can change.

They don't make any inconsistent descriptions. What happens is inconsistent anime episodes are made. Of course you wouldn't need anyone besides them, but that would make the other 491 Pokemon rather meaningless, don't you think? What about people like me who happen to enjoy Pokemon like Torkoal and Ursaring?

Lol. Do tell how this is logical:

2.27 - 3.35
YouTube video
All Grotle can do that, then, yeah?

I couldn't find any videos of it, but Brock's Happiny is abnormally strong. It actually lifts and tosses boulders about 15 times its size. No Happiny can do that. The anime is inconsistent. It increases the power of weaker Pokemon and decreases the power of universe busting legendaries, pseudo legendaries like Charizard and Tyranitar and even things like Blastoise and Hariyama.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
Rock Head ability? That's not the name of an Gameplay attack? I haven't played any game, but that sounds like an attack you use in the Gameplay if I am not mistaken. You can't use them as evidence, I'm afraid. Unless this is a battle using game's mechanic and Gameplay elements.

I'd say: Anime > Games. Of course the games are exaggerate. You can't blame if in the Anime you saw comical scenes like: The Team Rocket flying after an explosion or Ash being incinerated by Charizard's fire breath, because it's obvious for comical purposes. But if you're the one that believes water can pass through steel with a single shot, then the burden of proof is in you, I never saw water passing through steel nor Blastoise doing it. If you know the meaning of hyperbole, then you're indeed ignoring the fact that those descriptions are hyperbole and rather fallacious even if they are 'official statements'.

Rock Head is an ability that negates recoil damage from things like Head Smash, Double-Edge and Brave Bird. You get that? It is meant to negate damage from attacks in which you smash your body, face, and other things against rocks and other Pokemon. The anime is inconsistent.

Of course you would, because you still don't think the anime is inconsistent. Not all of the inconsistent scenes are comical, lol. See the Grotle video I posted earlier. The anime is also famous for improvising moves that shouldn't actually work. One of the most famous is Pikachu and Swellow's "Thunder Armor." Swellow is a Flying type, which are weak to electric attacks. Yet Pikachu is able to pump out enough electricity to turn it into "armor" and ride Swellow to smash into a Lunatone / Solrock for a win in a double battle.

http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Anime_physics

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
Exactly, because I'm talking about the games. Of course Blastoise can shoot water outside of a battle, duh. My point is, his water passing through steel seems exaggerated and there's not evidence of that, even if you deny it. What if I like Final Fantasy? What that have to do with anything we're discussing? I also like Pokemon, you know?

I am sorry. Charizard did what the Pokedex said. I have read that in the Bulbapedia.

Then why the hell they do made those inconsistent descriptions? Who said you need the 493 Pokemons to do a job? With the supposed Blastoise's water passing through steel and Machamp moving a mountain with a single arm, you wouldn't need anyone aside from them, don't you think? That's why Anime DO show what they can really perform in a real battle and with more coherence aspects. The game it's an RPG. Anime its live motion, it is more logical AND it's canon. You'll have to deal with it, mate. There's nothing you can change.

Rock Head ability? That's not the name of an Gameplay attack? I haven't played any game, but that sounds like an attack you use in the Gameplay if I am not mistaken. You can't use them as evidence, I'm afraid. Unless this is a battle using game's mechanic and Gameplay elements.

I'd say: Anime > Games. Of course the games are exaggerate. You can't blame if in the Anime you saw comical scenes like: The Team Rocket flying after an explosion or Ash being incinerated by Charizard's fire breath, because it's obvious for comical purposes. But if you're the one that believes water can pass through steel with a single shot, then the burden of proof is in you, I never saw water passing through steel nor Blastoise doing it. If you know the meaning of hyperbole, then you're indeed ignoring the fact that those descriptions are hyperbole and rather fallacious even if they are 'official statements'.

I agree with your views on the Pokedex, but the anime does contradict the games sometimes, even though it is considered cannon. The pokedex in the games do seem hyperbole, even though they are official statements. The powers that the Pokedex say Pokemon have in the games are featless, and are only backed up by the statement. It seems similiar to how ppl like to ***** about Sephiroth's Supernova spell. Even though it is a real move that Sephiroth has, and the developers state that it has the force of a real Supernova. They completely discredit it because of a BS cutscene.

Also, Scream, why do you insist that Dissidia isn't cannon? Do you just not like the game, or do you have reasons? It isn't just a random fighting game like the SSB series. There is a reason why all of the characters are there, it has a story to back it up, and the developers count it as a real FF game. It is basically a sequel to FF1. Saying that Dissidia isn't cannon is like saying that Dirge of Cerberus and Crisis Core aren't cannon either. Just because they don't follow the traditional turn based style that others do, doesn't mean that they aren't cannon to the series. I would have brought this up in the last thread you made, but you specifically excluded it from the beginning post. You failed to do so on this thread.

Either way team FF is winning this. All of them are able to manipulate time, an once they get Alakazam out of the picture, the rest of the Pokemon will soon follow.

Embargo would be good on Cloud and Vincent by taking their equipment and items, but ACC shows us that characters can absorb materia into their bodies and use them. I don't think something inside of your body would count as a held item or a regular item. So embargo shouldn't be able to take away Cloud and Vincent's use of materia.

Safeguard and Magic Coat are good, but can easily be stopped by dispel.

Synchronize is goo too, but it doesn't send back spells like freeze, or sleep. idk if it would send back stop. Even if it did, reflect would just make Alakazam get hit by the spell twice. Reflect would also shoot Balstoise's water back at him. I don't think Blastiose's shell is harder than steel, so it gets impaled by it's own attack.

Taunt is just like beserk. A remedy, or dispel would take care of it, but reflect would be a better method because it would send Taunt's user into a blind rage instead. Team FF could use beserk on Alakazam, and kill him while he tries to hit them with his spoons. 😆

Once Alakazam is gone the Pokemon won't have a good defense. Team FF uses stop and kills the rest.

Cloud and Vincent could also use their enemy skill materia to use Big guard and bad breath. Those would also help out.

Big Guard Casts Barrier, Magic Barrier and Haste on all allies. (Can also be used on enemies)

Bad Breath Casts confusion, frog, mini, poison silence, and sleepel on all enemies.

Also, if Ultemecia just stops the flow of time all together then how do you know it would freeze her team too? In the cutscene that Griever showed us, she was able to stop time, but Seifer was still able to move. Even if they were frozen in time, it wouldn't stop her from killing the rest of the Pokemon.

Pokemon doesn't need any defenses. I've already said this.

Machamp takes out Ultimecia in a matter of seconds. Alakazam can TK at least two people, bye bye Vincent and Cloud/Squall. Charizard, Blastoise, or Tyranitar can take them with the free hits via Alakazam.

This leaves Zell, against five Pokemon.

I don't see how losing Alakazam would mean instant loss for team pokemon either?

Also, Dissidia was treated like a genuine FF game, that's all the statement says, not that it's canon. 😐 And it certainly isn't canon to the individual FF universes.

I know that someone will say Ultimecia can stop/react to Machamp, so I'll save you the trouble of that and ask you what range this bullet came from? I wouldn't mind seeing the scene, myself.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
I don't see how losing Alakazam would mean instant loss for team pokemon either?

Also, Dissidia was treated like a genuine FF game, that's all the statement says, not that it's canon. 😐 And it certainly isn't canon to the individual FF universes.

Being explained relatively well does not canon make. 😛 Also, it does tend to screw with the relative power of some characters, eh? But yeah. Never seen any indication that it's canon, tbh. 😐

apart from the fact thats its a direct sequel to 1 😛

Originally posted by MadMel
apart from the fact thats its a direct sequel to 1 😛

Hmm... I think so too.

Edit: Sorry for my delay, Cow. I don't have time for forums at the moment.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
The Pokedex is the evidence of it. It isn't exaggerated. Absolutely nothing, but for some reason you seem to think me being a Pokemon fanboy influences my decision. So I merely assumed the same about you.

Dunno, I have read many Pokedex entries and all of them disagress with each other or they all doesn't says the same. It isn't exaggerated? I must say it isn't accurate either, mate. Hmm... You are attacking me now. If this is the motive, I have simply asked if you were a fan-boy (Fan) Which by the way you admitted pretty much being one. I said it's hard to make fans to understand (In a symbolic way), because it is perfectly understandable if you are in love with Pokemon, it's a great series. I never said anything against you and I never thought that of you either, because I love Pokemon too. I don't know what relates Final Fantasy to Pokemon to say such things anyway, so you should stop the hate (Spite) against other games series and fictional characters (Is evident that many members have it and is childish). No one cares if you like or not Final Fantasy. That's not even important. On top of that, Final Fantasy isn't even my favorite game. So before talk or make accusations against me, make sure you know me, please. And If you felt offended by my question, (It wasn't my intention whatsoever), accept my sincere apologies.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Game Charizard > Anime Charizard, lol.

Anime Charizard > Game Charizard, lol.
Or... Anime Charizard = Game Charizard.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
They don't make any inconsistent descriptions. What happens is inconsistent anime episodes are made.

Uh... Dear friend. Those descriptions about the Pokemons are VERY exaggerated. I wonder why you call the Anime: 'Inconsistent', are you reversing what I have said about the game...? If the Anime disagrees with the games, the same we can say the games disagreeing (if they do) with the Anime. I been accused of judge here, but you aren't any authority to decide what is more important, unless you work for Pokemon or something, lol. I never saw Machamp throwing its opponents over the horizon in the Anime, so I don't know why are you calling it inconsistent, 😂 .

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Of course you wouldn't need anyone besides them, but that would make the other 491 Pokemon rather meaningless, don't you think? What about people like me who happen to enjoy Pokemon like Torkoal and Ursaring?

Why meaningless? They still would fight, don't you think?
And there you have a problem, that's why those descriptions are rather fallacious and hyperbole. Or probably, they are overrating them. Torkoal and Ursaring? But they can't move mountains! Lol. Why would you need them? Charizard can melt a rock! Lol.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
All Grotle can do that, then, yeah?

I couldn't find any videos of it, but Brock's Happiny is abnormally strong. It actually lifts and tosses boulders about 15 times its size. No Happiny can do that. The anime is inconsistent. It increases the power of weaker Pokemon and decreases the power of universe busting legendaries, pseudo legendaries like Charizard and Tyranitar and even things like Blastoise and Hariyama.

I don't know that Pokemon.
I haven't watched all the seasons.

Despite of that, like I said, Anime is canon. But that Happiny Pokemon does not affect what is Gameplay in the games, so what's the problem? The Pokedex in the own games doesn't says he's extremely weak either.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Rock Head is an ability that negates recoil damage from things like Head Smash, Double-Edge and Brave Bird. You get that? It is meant to negate damage from attacks in which you smash your body, face, and other things against rocks and other Pokemon. The anime is inconsistent.

Of course you would, because you still don't think the anime is inconsistent. Not all of the inconsistent scenes are comical, lol. See the Grotle video I posted earlier. The anime is also famous for improvising moves that shouldn't actually work. One of the most famous is Pikachu and Swellow's "Thunder Armor." Swellow is a Flying type, which are weak to electric attacks. Yet Pikachu is able to pump out enough electricity to turn it into "armor" and ride Swellow to smash into a Lunatone / Solrock for a win in a double battle.

But that ability is from the Gameplay.
That's why you can't use them as evidence. It does not hold relevance of what is real. It's like me using the ability Death in Final Fantasy, we know that does not kill all the creatures. Despite that IS an ability, is for Gameplay purposes, as those from Pokemon you are naming.

The comical scenes are a good example though.
Pal, you have a serious problem here. I have noticed you are mixing what is Gameplay descriptions or elements with Anime A.K.A realism.
On top of that, where it says Swellow is weak to electric attacks? I mean the Flying type? And if I am not mistaken, both of them in that episode weren't enjoying that too much before being charged up with electricity. See their faces? Lol. Plus, you said it, it was Pikachu the one who did the job there, not Swellow. Pikachu isn't weak to electricity, yet he can be damaged by other thunder Pokemon.

lets just put this a game cannon only because we are running around in circles.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
Dunno, I have read many Pokedex entries and all of them disagress with each other or they all doesn't says the same. It isn't exaggerated? I must say it isn't accurate either, mate. Hmm... You are attacking me now. If this is the motive, I have simply asked if you were a fan-boy (Fan) Which by the way you admitted pretty much being one. I said it's hard to make fans to understand (In a symbolic way), because it is perfectly understandable if you are in love with Pokemon, it's a great series. I never said anything against you and I never thought that of you either, because I love Pokemon too. I don't know what relates Final Fantasy to Pokemon to say such things anyway, so you should stop the hate (Spite) against other games series and fictional characters (Is evident that many members have it and is childish). No one cares if you like or not Final Fantasy. That's not even important. On top of that, Final Fantasy isn't even my favorite game. So before talk or make accusations against me, make sure you know me, please. And If you felt offended by my question, (It wasn't my intention whatsoever), accept my sincere apologies.

I am not attacking you. >_> But you did think that of me, lol. And you even said it again in this post. Supposedly I think Pokemon would win because I hate Final Fantasy.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
Anime Charizard > Game Charizard, lol.
Or... Anime Charizard = Game Charizard.

The Pokedex says otherwise. Of course, the two could be made to work together, but Charizard melting a rock means he took it easy. Incineration is his total power.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
Uh... Dear friend. Those descriptions about the Pokemons are VERY exaggerated. I wonder why you call the Anime: 'Inconsistent', are you reversing what I have said about the game...? If the Anime disagrees with the games, the same we can say the games disagreeing (if they do) with the Anime. I been accused of judge here, but you aren't any authority to decide what is more important, unless you work for Pokemon or something, lol. I never saw Machamp throwing its opponents over the horizon in the Anime, so I don't know why are you calling it inconsistent, 😂 .

Or it's that, you know, the anime consistently portrays weaker versions of the Pokemon it features. 😐

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
Why meaningless? They still would fight, don't you think?
And there you have a problem, that's why those descriptions are rather fallacious and hyperbole. Or probably, they are overrating them. Torkoal and Ursaring? But they can't move mountains! Lol. Why would you need them? Charizard can melt a rock! Lol.

Not really. If you can solo the game because you gave two Pokemon their actual abilities outside of battle while not giving all of the others their abilities, the rest become meaningless to have. So, what you said applies quite nicely.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
Torkoal and Ursaring? But they can't move mountains! Lol. Why would you need them? Charizard can melt a rock! Lol.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
I don't know that Pokemon.
I haven't watched all the seasons.

Despite of that, like I said, Anime is canon. But that Happiny Pokemon does not affect what is Gameplay in the games, so what's the problem? The Pokedex in the own games doesn't says he's extremely weak either.

Who is ignoring things now? Clearly, that Grotle is amped beyond its abilities. It learned one move, which it used to shoot several hundred feet into the air, and it then landed safely on all fours without harm. The anime is inconsistent.

Gameplay is not always canon. And that Happiny is an example of the inconsistency of the anime. Chansey don't have that kind of strength.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
But that ability is from the Gameplay.
That's why you can't use them as evidence. It does not hold relevance of what is real. It's like me using the ability Death in Final Fantasy, we know that does not kill all the creatures. Despite that IS an ability, is for Gameplay purposes, as those from Pokemon you are naming.

The comical scenes are a good example though.
Pal, you have a serious problem here. I have noticed you are mixing what is Gameplay descriptions or elements with Anime A.K.A realism.
On top of that, where it says Swellow is weak to electric attacks? I mean the Flying type? And if I am not mistaken, both of them in that episode weren't enjoying that too much before being charged up with electricity. See their faces? Lol. Plus, you said it, it was Pikachu the one who did the job there, not Swellow. Pikachu isn't weak to electricity, yet he can be damaged by other thunder Pokemon.

Lol, no it's not. Every Pokemon has an ability, it isn't some gameplay mechanic. Even the anime tells us this.

The anime is not realism. Not even close. See that Wiki link that Scenario posted? Even the Bulbapedia community disagrees with you.

Pikachu didn't have to fly in to something while being hit with an Earthquake. And yeah, he can. Fire types can still be hurt by Fire attacks, too. It's where that message "its not very effective..." comes from. It really doesn't matter that Pikachu was the one "doing the job." Swellow is clearly hit by the Electric attack. I

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
I am not attacking you. >_> But you did think that of me, lol. And you even said it again in this post. Supposedly I think Pokemon would win because I hate Final Fantasy.

No, mate. I'm being honest, I would never think that of anyone. I was just merely joking, believe me, I apologize. I love Pokemon and Final Fantasy and I don't care what sides win, I love both series. If I have to support Pokemon, I will. 🙂

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
The Pokedex says otherwise. Of course, the two could be made to work together, but Charizard melting a rock means he took it easy. Incineration is his total power.

We should begin to agree. You see, both sources are canon, in this case you are right because this is a battle between Videogames characters, so I suppose you don't have choice, you MUST look at the games, that's understandable. 🙂 I hope you agree.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Or it's that, you know, the anime consistently portrays weaker versions of the Pokemon it features. no expression

But hey... Pokemons are REALLY strong in the Anime... 😑
Besides, it depends of each one... You can a have a very strong Pikachu and maybe I can have a very weak one. There are millions of Pikachu species, lol.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Not really. If you can solo the game because you gave two Pokemon their actual abilities outside of battle while not giving all of the others their abilities, the rest become meaningless to have. So, what you said applies quite nicely.

Hmm... That's a good point, indeed.
But that's exactly where my point goes.
Look, if that's the case then that's why I'm saying that those descriptions are like out of context, they are bit hyperbole. You see, those descriptions does not affect anything in the Gameplay, Machamp moving a mountain does not affect in battles nor outside of them in the games, that's why. It's meaningless.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Who is ignoring things now? Clearly, that Grotle is amped beyond its abilities. It learned one move, which it used to shoot several hundred feet into the air, and it then landed safely on all fours without harm. The anime is inconsistent.

Gameplay is not always canon. And that Happiny is an example of the inconsistency of the anime. Chansey don't have that kind of strength.

I'm not ignoring things, I don't know who is that Pokemon, you may be right about that. Anime is canon, Games are also inconsistent.

If Gameplay is not always canon, then what's the problem? As far as they make it canon, then it is not inconsistent, at all.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Lol, no it's not. Every Pokemon has an ability, it isn't some gameplay mechanic. Even the anime tells us this.

The anime is not realism. Not even close. See that Wiki link that Scenario posted? Even the Bulbapedia community disagrees with you.

Pikachu didn't have to fly in to something while being hit with an Earthquake. And yeah, he can. Fire types can still be hurt by Fire attacks, too. It's where that message "its not very effective..." comes from. It really doesn't matter that Pikachu was the one "doing the job." Swellow is clearly hit by the Electric attack. I

Even the Anime? Then the Anime is accurate! 😱

It is. Yeah, I saw that link. Bulbapedia disagrees with me? In what? I didn't said there are a lot of comical scenes where 'logic' is absent? The Bulbapedia agrees with me. Also agrees when it says the Anime is canon.

But Pikachu didn't threw an attack at Swellow, they both have been charged up. And like I said, friend, they both didn't enjoy much, lol.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
We should begin to agree. You see, both sources are canon, in this case you are right because this is a battle between Videogames characters, so I suppose you don't have choice, you MUST look at the games, that's understandable. 🙂 I hope you agree.

I've always thought both can be a decent source, but the Anime won't override the Games. It is inconsistent with a lot, but it shows some things okay. Then there's stuff that's "wtf..." Like Thunder armor.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
But hey... Pokemons are REALLY strong in the Anime... 😑
Besides, it depends of each one... You can a have a very strong Pikachu and maybe I can have a very weak one. There are millions of Pikachu species, lol.

No two Pokemon are alike. But that doesn't explain everything. Like why Brock's Happiny is uberstrong. I could go for this. But when we're using a Pokemon that isn't specific we assume it is a generic Pokemon with normal abilities for its species. Happiny is relatively useless. Brock's Happiny is not. But Brock's Happiny also does not originate in a game, so we likely will never use specific Pokemon, unless it is something like Red's Snorlax.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
Hmm... That's a good point, indeed.
But that's exactly where my point goes.
Look, if that's the case then that's why I'm saying that those descriptions are like out of context, they are bit hyperbole. You see, those descriptions does not affect anything in the Gameplay, Machamp moving a mountain does not affect in battles nor outside of them in the games, that's why. It's meaningless.

The only reason it isn't in the games though, is because it simply can't be. It'd screw with the entire structure of it if I could put Pallet town out in the middle of the Lake of Rage. Same thing if I could flatten Mt. Silver or Mt. Moon and sink Cinnabar Island.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
I'm not ignoring things, I don't know who is that Pokemon, you may be right about that. Anime is canon, Games are also inconsistent.

If Gameplay is not always canon, then what's the problem? As far as they make it canon, then it is not inconsistent, at all.

It's a Grotle. It's speed is only like...base 30 I think. The move it used is Rock Climb. I could excuse it while he was on the rock wall, but then he used it to rocket hundreds of feet into the air. That's a no-no.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
Even the Anime? Then the Anime is accurate! 😱

It is. Yeah, I saw that link. Bulbapedia disagrees with me? In what? I didn't said there are a lot of comical scenes where 'logic' is absent? The Bulbapedia agrees with me. Also agrees when it says the Anime is canon.

But Pikachu didn't threw an attack at Swellow, they both have been charged up. And like I said, friend, they both didn't enjoy much, lol.

With some things.

Not all of those examples are comical. Like Ash's Chimchar somehow having the ability to fall to the ground whenever it chooses to. Bulbapedia treats all three sources of Pokemon Canon as separate entities. They don't even bother trying to mix them. We've been bothering.

An Electric attack sends electricity through the Pokemon. 😐 At least, Thunderbolt does. It doesn't matter if they enjoyed it. It shouldn't have been able to happen at all.

Originally posted by Phanteros
lets just put this a game cannon only because we are running around in circles.

If that were the case, I don't believe the Pokemon side could win without Safeguard.

By the way, who do you think would win in this? I don't think I've seen you pick a side. 😑

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Pokemon doesn't need any defenses. I've already said this.

Pokemon are gonna need all the defenses they can get to even stand a chance against FF characters

Machamp takes out Ultimecia in a matter of seconds.

Complete BS as Ultimecia can easily dispose of Machamp. Just as bad as sending a fighting type against Mewtwo.

Alakazam can TK at least two people, bye bye Vincent and Cloud/Squall.

Yet he'll still be vulnerable against someone. If Vincent goes chaos, Alakazaam isn't going to beat him.

Charizard, Blastoise, or Tyranitar can take them with the free hits via Alakazam.

And Alakazaam will be vulnerable. He won't surive a Buster Sword, gun shot, Zell's fist, or a gunblade with that horribly weak body of his.

This leaves Zell, against five Pokemon.

The Pokemon team would be lucky if they even beat 1 member of team FF and that'll cost most of their own team.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
I don't see how losing Alakazam would mean instant loss for team pokemon either?

Because no other Pokemon stands a chance against Chaos Vincent or Ultimecia. They get speed-blitzed, time-raped, and go to magic hell.

Has the time powers been countered yet?

Originally posted by Sin_Volvagia
Pokemon are gonna need all the defenses they can get to even stand a chance against FF characters

Not really.

Originally posted by Sin_Volvagia
Complete BS as Ultimecia can easily dispose of Machamp. Just as bad as sending a fighting type against Mewtwo.

Bullet Punch.

Originally posted by Sin_Volvagia
Yet he'll still be vulnerable against someone. If Vincent goes chaos, Alakazaam isn't going to beat him.

Vincent is already TK'd. He isn't moving anywhere.

Originally posted by Sin_Volvagia
And Alakazaam will be vulnerable. He won't surive a Buster Sword, gun shot, Zell's fist, or a gunblade with that horribly weak body of his.

He has other Pokemon to take care of him. Charizard should be able to cook both the people he TK's by himself, actually. That leaves Blastoise with Aqua Jet or his water cannons and Tyranitar who can probably take the hit, definitely with Protect.

Originally posted by Sin_Volvagia
The Pokemon team would be lucky if they even beat 1 member of team FF and that'll cost most of their own team.

Good joke. Needs better delivery though.

Originally posted by Sin_Volvagia
Because no other Pokemon stands a chance against Chaos Vincent or Ultimecia. They get speed-blitzed, time-raped, and go to magic hell.

Vincent is rendered helpless and Ultimecia gets beaten by Machamp.

@Bloodrain. Yeah, Ultimecia can't use time powers while being punched.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Not really.

Alakazaam has a frail body, Tyranitar has a double weakness to fighting attacks, Blastoise is vulnerable electricity and is slow, and Machamp has no long range he can use. I'd even say Cloud alone is faster than these Pokemon.

Bullet Punch.

Is only like quick attack in game mechanics. The description says it's a punch that moves as fast as a bullet. Cloud blocks bullets and Ultimecia stops them.

Vincent is already TK'd. He isn't moving anywhere.

Which won't matter when Zell can shatter Alakazam in one punch. And he's fast enough to get there.

He has other Pokemon to take care of him. Charizard should be able to cook both the people he TK's by himself, actually. That leaves Blastoise with Aqua Jet or his water cannons and Tyranitar who can probably take the hit, definitely with Protect.

Charizard is weak. Zell & Squall faced a Ruby Dragon which is more of a threat than some Pokemon. And there's Ultimecia who could blast it out of the air with Thundaga. Blastoise is slow and gets raped by any FF character on the field. Tyranitar gets wisked away by Tornado or Maelstrom which will cripple Alakazam too.

Vincent is rendered helpless and Ultimecia gets beaten by Machamp.

Machamp gets in and it will get Maelstromed.

@Bloodrain. Yeah, Ultimecia can't use time powers while being punched.

Machamp won't even land a punch.