DBZ more powerful than you think...

Originally posted by kbclassof09
Dude they are much stronger than that. In the manga akira toriyama said that ssj3 goku has enough physical strength to lift an entire supercity (tokyo) which is in the billions of tons. And ssj3 is 400x base form goku would be able to lift at least 100 million tons in base form. Then they can amp their strength to planet busting levels (if they wanted to).

Originally posted by carver9
The only person that has EVER tanked the destructo disk is Cell.

Originally posted by carver9
Take it how you want, all I know is, from what I saw, he went around the earth at least 6 or 7 times in one panel. I cant believe you are sitting here arguing this when you have posted Superman scans showing how many panels it took him to make it to a certain location.

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
His PL raised to a certain number that was still weaker than Frieza's when he attacked him. Regardless if you think he has a limitless PL the number at the time was still below Frieza.

And that right there proves you wrong in thinking that someone that is necessarily stronger than another can tank anything the weaker person can give. Also see Tien vs Cell Tri-Beam.

Again, we dont know what powerlevel Gohun was at when he did that to frieza. Frieza himself stated that Gohun was powerful and Krillin even told Vegeta that they didnt need him because Gohun was powerful enough. Stop using Gohun when we all know that when he is angry he dips into a power that is hidden.

You didnt prove anything wrong, the destructo disk is a destructo disk. It is a signiture move that is stated as having the ability to cut through anything. Tien didnt do anything to Cell, he just held him off. That beam didnt cause him any physical harm and answer this, how powerful was Tien when he fought Cell and when you give me that answer, tell me, where did you get it from?

Originally posted by Kento
😕 No he hasn't. And SSJ3 is only x200... That was only filler though so. 😆 No I haven't. I haven't even been arguing for Superman much less posting any scans. And when scans are posted or talked about there is some kind of way to determine something. Like when he fought Darkseid and bullrushed him to the moon it took him a few sentences. Or a time is stated like how it said 4 minutes to get to Jupiter. Or heat vision is involved which is show numerous of times to be light speed.

The thing about Superman bullrushing Darkseid to the moon is that...Batman saw the bullrush and seen him carry Darkseid so that exempt the speed of light. Once he reach space, yes, I agree, they did achieve light speed and a boom tube.

I believe Superman can make it to Jupiter moon in 4 minutes while being in space because it was stated that he can achieve light speed in space. Just like Vulcan flying past Saturn in one panel after leaving earth. HHHMMM, where did you get it that Supes heat vision is the speed of light. From my knowledge, Flash and Superman was running at 2000 mps and flash still outran Supes heat vision. 😕

How can you say Superman can fight anywhere CLOSE to what DBZ fighters can when in actuality, he cant. He hasnt shown the ability to do so. Yes, he has speed feats but it isnt on the level of DBZ characters, not even close. Him bullrushing people isnt DBZ style. Him flying to the moon isnt DBZ style. Him bullrushing Wonder Woman isnt DBZ style. Him flying around doomsday, in circles, punching him, isnt DBZ style. He has combat speed but again, its no where CLOSE to what DBZ characters can do with their speed.

The people that Superman fight against would be amazed at what Goku could do with his speed if they were fighting him and they would give the f*** up or either get stomped one. EVERYBODY that Superman fights on a daily basis wouldnt even know how to react if they were put against someone like frieza. Hell, I feel good saying that you could put 90% of the people that he has fought as a team against frieza and all of them would get BLITZED and nuked before they even knew what happened.

Originally posted by carver9
The thing about Superman bullrushing Darkseid to the moon is that...Batman saw the bullrush and seen him carry Darkseid so that exempt the speed of light. Once he reach space, yes, I agree, they did achieve light speed and a boom tube.

I believe Superman can make it to Jupiter moon in 4 minutes while being in space because it was stated that he can achieve light speed in space. Just like Vulcan flying past Saturn in one panel after leaving earth. HHHMMM, where did you get it that Supes heat vision is the speed of light. From my knowledge, Flash and Superman was running at 2000 mps and flash still outran Supes heat vision. 😕

How can you say Superman can fight anywhere CLOSE to what DBZ fighters can when in actuality, he cant. He hasnt shown the ability to do so. Yes, he has speed feats but it isnt on the level of DBZ characters, not even close. Him bullrushing people isnt DBZ style. Him flying to the moon isnt DBZ style. Him bullrushing Wonder Woman isnt DBZ style. Him flying around doomsday, in circles, punching him, isnt DBZ style. He has combat speed but again, its no where CLOSE to what DBZ characters can do with their speed.

The people that Superman fight against would be amazed at what Goku could do with his speed if they were fighting him and they would give the f*** up or either get stomped one. EVERYBODY that Superman fights on a daily basis wouldnt even know how to react if they were put against someone like frieza. Hell, I feel good saying that you could put 90% of the people that he has fought as a team against frieza and all of them would get BLITZED and nuked before they even knew what happened.

I generally agree with this. Only the speed force types can fight at high speeds. Usually, everyone else just does a move at a really high speed, but it isn't a continuous fight that is completely invisible to onlookers.

Originally posted by Kento
[B]And SSJ3 is only x200...

Considering scouters weren't being used anymore, and we never even got a reading on SSJ1 Goku in that fight with Freeza, I'm pretty sure there's no way of telling how much stronger SSJ3 is than base Goku..

That was only filler though so.

And not even good filler. What they should've done, was had Krillin actually cut Cells head off, than have him regenerate. 😄

Because that's all that would've happened had you cut off any version of Cell's head. Piccolo's regen, and Piccolo himself regenerated an entire body in the Buu saga.

Originally posted by carver9
The thing about Superman bullrushing Darkseid to the moon is that...Batman saw the bullrush and seen him carry Darkseid so that exempt the speed of light. Once he reach space, yes, I agree, they did achieve light speed and a boom tube.

I believe Superman can make it to Jupiter moon in 4 minutes while being in space because it was stated that he can achieve light speed in space. Just like Vulcan flying past Saturn in one panel after leaving earth. HHHMMM, where did you get it that Supes heat vision is the speed of light. From my knowledge, Flash and Superman was running at 2000 mps and flash still outran Supes heat vision. 😕

How can you say Superman can fight anywhere CLOSE to what DBZ fighters can when in actuality, he cant. He hasnt shown the ability to do so. Yes, he has speed feats but it isnt on the level of DBZ characters, not even close. Him bullrushing people isnt DBZ style. Him flying to the moon isnt DBZ style. Him bullrushing Wonder Woman isnt DBZ style. Him flying around doomsday, in circles, punching him, isnt DBZ style. He has combat speed but again, its no where CLOSE to what DBZ characters can do with their speed.

The people that Superman fight against would be amazed at what Goku could do with his speed if they were fighting him and they would give the f*** up or either get stomped one. EVERYBODY that Superman fights on a daily basis wouldnt even know how to react if they were put against someone like frieza. Hell, I feel good saying that you could put 90% of the people that he has fought as a team against frieza and all of them would get BLITZED and nuked before they even knew what happened.

Frieza vs Kalibak, Darkseid, Konvikt, Despero, Grundy, The General, Shaggy man. As soon as the fight start everyone is staring frieza down, waiting until the bell ring; as soon as it rings Frieza winks out. Everyone is looking around wondering if he teleported, searching for him, not knowing that he is moving around them at super speed. Then all of a sudden, blast are coming from all directions, NUKES, hitting all of them but they cant see the person that is shooting the blast, it look like it is coming out of thin air. Majority of them are dead from all of the nuclear explosions but Darkseid still remains (but hurt), Darkseid getting hit with one more nuke lifts up off the ground due to the explosion, as soon as he lifts up, and lifts his head up, he see a moon size blast coming at him and hear frieza (while flying out of space) doing the evil laugh and it ends with a planet explosion.

Everything that I have said has been shown on panel and frieza is pretty much capable of doing this.

kento... toriyama did state in the manga that ssj3 goku is strong enough to lift a supercity i seen it with my own eyes. And to show you dont know what you are talking about. ssj3 is 400x base form if we go by the SEG multipliers which ssj 50x base, ssj2 2x ssj, and ssj3 4x ssj2. Do the math.

Originally posted by kbclassof09
I read the entire dragonball manga and I noticed that dbz is a very powerful verse... more powerful than people think they are... Im gonna show proof of their strength (obviously more than 40 tons) speed, durability, and energy (high tier-solar system+ buster). I'll list some but not all of their best feats. Will use manga only.

Strength

Kid Goku lift and throw 1 ton car at power level 10.

Kid Goku lifts 2 ton rock, throws it in the air, and shatters it with one punch.

Kid Goku pushes 10 ton rock with ease. rock's diameter is greater than the length of master roshi's body who is at least 5 ft tall.

Kid Goku and Krillin push 600 ton rock. Rock dimensions 20 ft high 20 ft long 20 ft wide. multiply all dimensions x 150 lb (which is average weight of rock per cubic foot) 20x20x20x150= 600 tons.

Tao pai pai with pl less than 200 hurls half ton pillar at least at the speed of sound over 2300 km ( must be the equivalent of lifting at least 500 tons overhead).

Goku throws giant piccolo. Giant piccolo obviously weighs more than 40 tons.

Goku kicks frieza through 2 islands.

Speed

Master roshi and krillin moving so fast during battle that no one can see them.

Roshi easily dodges bullets

Saiyan Saga Goku crosses snake way in 2 days and snake way's road is 1,000,000 km. mach 17 at least.

Base Goku escapes frieza's energy ball before it explodes.

Durability

Kid Goku is resists against lightning and lightning is hotter than the surface of the sun.

Goku tanks piccolo island busting blast (though he amped his body up with ki).

Frieza survives planet namek's explosion. Note: he tanks a planet's explosion not a planet busting attack. Planet busting attack > planet exploding on its own.

Energy

Master Roshi destroys moon at power level 139.

Piccolo destroys moon with casual ki blast at power level 300+.

Saiyan Saga vegeta threatens to destroy earth. This only proven via power scaling. moon is 1/80 the mass of the earth, and roshi destroys moon. vegeta at pl 18000 is almost 130 times more powerful than roshi.

Frieza saga vegeta after last powerup almost destroyed namek but frieza kicks the attack into space.

Base form frieza destroys planet vegeta a planet 10 times bigger than earth.

70 percent frieza tries to destroy namek. Note: he would have destroyed the planet completely but he stated held back too much energy (so he does not have to disrupt the core to destroy a planet) Think im wrong... look at how much energy frieza used to destroy the planet an energy blast the size of a beach ball if he would have made it twice as big planet namek would have exploded on impact.

Semi-perfect cell destroy king kai planet. king kai planet is 10 times more dense than earth. 10 times more dense equals 10 times the mass.

King Cold and Frieza state how easy it would be for them to destroy an earth sized planet.

I thought people knew all this already. None of this even goes into the Buu saga.

It also seems to me that people STILL don't know what Ki is.

Like I said before, I don't know if it's bias or somethin' that stops DBZ from gettin' it's due respects but when you start doin' "power scaling", shit can get pretty ridiculous.

Originally posted by No End N Site
I thought people knew all this already. None of this even goes into the Buu saga.

It also seems to me that people STILL don't know what Ki is.

Like I said before, I don't know if it's bias or somethin' that stops DBZ from gettin' it's due respects but when you start doin' "power scaling", shit can get pretty ridiculous.

Oh, its pretty much common knowledge that a lot of people here are bias against DBZ characters. I can name at least 4 people here that are VERY bias against them and try to do everything in their power to discredit every feat that is put up involving them.

Originally posted by carver9
Oh, its pretty much common knowledge that a lot of people here are bias against DBZ characters. I can name at least 4 people here that are VERY bias against them and try to do everything in their power to discredit every feat that is put up involving them.

I was just talkin' shit. I'm well aware of it all. You wastin' your time, the standards change when it comes to DBZ. You should know that.

Originally posted by No End N Site

It also seems to me that people STILL don't know what Ki is.

I'm going to clear this up.

There are two general types of "energy" that you see a lot of DBZ characters using; Chi and Ki.

Chi is the "energy of the body". It is generated by focusing your body's energy into a single point. This is the type of energy used when Goku uses the Kamehameha, or when the Z Fighters "power up", for example. Remember when Goku's power level skyrocketed on Raditz's scouter when he used the Kamehameha? Yeah.

Ki is "energy of the mind". This is the energy being used when a character does a mental power like Telekinesis, flying, or Piccolo's Special Beam Cannon.

Both can be measured by the scouter, but I'm not sure if it combines the values and averages or what. It might be some complicated algorithm, because Bulma had to fix it to get that scouter to work in their language.

Originally posted by carver9
Naah, I think you are missing the point when we have on panel showings or super humans being unable to see Goku during combat but when he is flying, humans are able to see him.

Its right there in front of your face Mike, you are just missing it.

Short burst.

I know it's never been your strong suit, but do the math. Light circles the earth other 7 times in one second. To not be able to move more than a few hundred meters at that speed they would be only moving at it for a millionth of a second or so.

Characters not being able to see each other doesn't mean anything as many factors can contribute to that.

Really there is no evidence than any DBZ characters are even 1% of the speed of light.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
I know it's never been your strong suit, but do the math. Light circles the earth other 7 times in one second. To not be able to move more than a few hundred meters at that speed they would be only moving at it for a millionth of a second or so.

Characters not being able to see each other doesn't mean anything as many factors can contribute to that.

Really there is no evidence than any DBZ characters are even 1% of the speed of light.

And all of this is your opinion.

I'm not worried about flight, I am talking about combat speed.

It's not opinion, it's based on facts. You keep ignoring what I am saying. "flight speed" and "combat speed" are not different unless a character is incapable of seeing where they are going and they crash into things. It's reaction speed that matters. Also you keep failing to grasp the concept of what I am saying. If they can move anywhere near lightspeed over short distances, there should be nothing to stop them from doing it over longer distances, unless they can only do it for a tiny fraction of time and then they have to wait a long time before doing it again. So what we would expect to see would be the characters disappearing and appearing somewhere else for one attack, then fighting the rest of the fight at normal speed, and only moving at this high speed once every few minutes. Also their timelag/delay between when they could use this speed would have to be perfectly synced or one could just blitz the other while the other is still not able to use that speed. This doesn't happen. In addition there are instances like when Frieza was trying to get to the Dragon Balls and make a wish and he was going as fast as he could but they were only just on the horizon (so like 9km away at max), he didn't simply pull out this nonexistent super speed you are proposing since if it was only over a short distance it should have worked.

Peeps are aware that DBZ is a manga and not a real life depiction of any event that has ever occurred on Earth.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
I know it's never been your strong suit, but do the math. Light circles the earth other 7 times in one second. To not be able to move more than a few hundred meters at that speed they would be only moving at it for a millionth of a second or so.

Characters not being able to see each other doesn't mean anything as many factors can contribute to that.

Really there is no evidence than any DBZ characters are even 1% of the speed of light.

So, when two characters in the middle of an arena disappear completely, as Piccolo and Goku did at the end of Dragon Ball, what kind of factors are we looking at?

And while there's few, if any, hard figures to support a lightspeed notion, various evidence has been offered, so it's not completely baseless opinion. Such examples include:

-Attacks going from the Earth to the moon in about a second.
-dodging multiple "quick ki" attacks that is reasonable to assume are at least as fast as said moon busting attacks.
-Seeing Burter's perspective for a second as Gohan, Vegeta, and Krillin, all of them speedsters capable of catching every bullet from a machinegun as early as Dragon Ball (As Roshi did then), appear to be moving in slow motion.
-Goku seemingly standing still as the same Burter passes harmlessly through him, with the only evidence that Goku moved being his footprints in the dirt.
-Mystic Gohan outrunning Buu's suicide explosion, and claiming only an explosion that engulfs the Earth would be able to catch him (Presumably because he can't breath in a vaccume..)

Again, no hard evidence, but when such feats and more keep happening, it makes you think...

Also, in counter to your proposition that it'd be ridiculous to move at lightspeed for a fraction of time, I again point out Val Amorr, the Karate Kid of the Legion of Super Heroes. He's made a career out of fighting on the level of super speedsters thanks to his "space karate", or knowing every martial art in the universe.. No PIS involved, it was flat out feats of him dodging characters on Superman and Flashes level, with commentary that he was intending to dodge and counter super speed attacks while doing it..

Yet you'll find no real speed feats to his name beyond that.. No running around the world seven times, no vanishing from sight, no catching multiple bullets in mid air, no making tornado's with the speed of his arms...

My point being, there's precedent for characters with great speed in combat situation, but none in any other scenario..

Originally posted by cdtm
So, when two characters in the middle of an arena disappear completely, as Piccolo and Goku did at the end of Dragon Ball, what kind of factors are we looking at?

And while there's few, if any, hard figures to support a lightspeed notion, various evidence has been offered, so it's not completely baseless opinion. Such examples include:

-Attacks going from the Earth to the moon in about a second.
-dodging multiple "quick ki" attacks that is reasonable to assume are at least as fast as said moon busting attacks.
-Seeing Burter's perspective for a second as Gohan, Vegeta, and Krillin, all of them speedsters capable of catching every bullet from a machinegun as early as Dragon Ball (As Roshi did then), appear to be moving in slow motion.
-Goku seemingly standing still as the same Burter passes harmlessly through him, with the only evidence that Goku moved being his footprints in the dirt.
-Mystic Gohan outrunning Buu's suicide explosion, and claiming only an explosion that engulfs the Earth would be able to catch him (Presumably because he can't breath in a vaccume..)

Again, no hard evidence, but when such feats and more keep happening, it makes you think...

Also, in counter to your proposition that it'd be ridiculous to move at lightspeed for a fraction of time, I again point out Val Amorr, the Karate Kid of the Legion of Super Heroes. He's made a career out of fighting on the level of super speedsters thanks to his "space karate", or knowing every martial art in the universe.. No PIS involved, it was flat out feats of him dodging characters on Superman and Flashes level, with commentary that he was intending to dodge and counter super speed attacks while doing it..

Yet you'll find no real speed feats to his name beyond that.. No running around the world seven times, no vanishing from sight, no catching multiple bullets in mid air, no making tornado's with the speed of his arms...

My point being, there's precedent for characters with great speed in combat situation, but none in any other scenario..

Pretty good post, dude.

And you're new here?

Dang.

What about superbuu, ssj3 gotenks, and piccolo's speed when they went through that wormhole? A wormhole closes at FTL speed.

Originally posted by carver9
Oh, its pretty much common knowledge that a lot of people here are bias against DBZ characters. I can name at least 4 people here that are VERY bias against them and try to do everything in their power to discredit every feat that is put up involving them.

Originally posted by kbclassof09
What about superbuu, ssj3 gotenks, and piccolo's speed when they went through that wormhole? A wormhole closes at FTL speed.

Umm that dimensional tear didn't start closing until they were already through it and even then it closed pretty slow.