Originally posted by Kento
Yea, but he was still suppose to get back the day after they arrived. He gets back at most 5 hours after they arrive. *shrugs* So, somewhere something is off.
All of this doesnt matter since we have a Goku that is a couple of thousands more powerful during the frieza saga. Since he was powerful, it is pretty obvious that his speed was increased by a large gap which means that whatever showing during snake way is moot.
I brought up the kao ken because if he used it, he would have crossed snake way in far less time since it did increase his speed by a large gap.
After the frieza saga, his speed was increased so much that he didnt even need the kao ken anymore.
Originally posted by carver9How much of a gap is uncertain though.
All of this doesnt matter since we have a Goku that is a couple of thousands more powerful during the frieza saga. Since he was powerful, it is pretty obvious that his speed was increased by a large gap which means that whatever showing during snake way is moot.
Originally posted by carver9Kaioken is a risky move though..More so at that point in time when his body could barley handle anything but double his power. And it would still have taken him probably 14 or more hours to get back, and using Kaioken could've been fatal.
I brought up the kao ken because if he used it, he would have crossed snake way in far less time since it did increase his speed by a large gap.
Originally posted by carver9Because he got Super Saiyan. Which is a much more stable power up, and stronger.
After the frieza saga, his speed was increased so much that he didnt even need the kao ken anymore.
I think Kayoken proved without a shadow of a doubt that increased powerlevel is an advantage in ever single physical aspect that a Z fighter brings to the game... After years of debating the DBZ issue... I find typically the only way people would be able to renounce the uber level of Z fighters' powers are to read too much into simple plot holes... though given the implied powers, those plot holes are glaring one's...
Just too difficult to make your characters continuously look more and more impressive when you have them running around faster than light and blowing up moons when they are millions of times weaker than they end up to become. 😬
Originally posted by carver9
I already told you why and again, I dont care about their flight speed when their short burst are much more impressive. I already admitted to you that they cant fly at the speed of light.
You're completely missing my point. The only way that their travel speed could be so much lower than their combat speed is if they could only move their bodies at such a high speed for a tiny, tiny fraction of a second and needed to wait several seconds before doing it again. That is contrary to what we see in the fights.
Originally posted by Endless Mike
You're completely missing my point. The only way that their travel speed could be so much lower than their combat speed is if they could only move their bodies at such a high speed for a tiny, tiny fraction of a second and needed to wait several seconds before doing it again. That is contrary to what we see in the fights.
Naah, I think you are missing the point when we have on panel showings or super humans being unable to see Goku during combat but when he is flying, humans are able to see him.
😕
Its right there in front of your face Mike, you are just missing it.
Short burst.
Originally posted by jinzin
I think Kayoken proved without a shadow of a doubt that increased powerlevel is an advantage in ever single physical aspect that a Z fighter brings to the game... After years of debating the DBZ issue... I find typically the only way people would be able to renounce the uber level of Z fighters' powers are to read too much into simple plot holes... though given the implied powers, those plot holes are glaring one's...Just too difficult to make your characters continuously look more and more impressive when you have them running around faster than light and blowing up moons when they are millions of times weaker than they end up to become. 😬
Good post.
Originally posted by Kento
How much of a gap is uncertain though.
It should be a huge gap since we have people like Raditz only being 1200 power level and Goku and Picollo only being 500 and they were unable to even scratch Raditz hair and they were fighting together. 😕
Originally posted by Kento
Kaioken is a risky move though..More so at that point in time when his body could barley handle anything but double his power. And it would still have taken him probably 14 or more hours to get back, and using Kaioken could've been fatal.
You are not getting the point that I am trying to make. Whatever caculations that you all are using for Goku's speed during snake way should be tripled since during using kao ken times one increased his speed by that much and thats just kayo ken times one. He boosted it up further during his fight with Vegeta and frieza.
Originally posted by Kento
Because he got Super Saiyan. Which is a much more stable power up, and stronger.
Goku using Kayo Ken times 20 was still unable to keep up with Frieza so I am pretty sure Frieza and Goku during Super Sayain mode was fighting at uncontrollable levels of speed. I guess that is why they did so much in 5 minutes before the planet exploded.
Originally posted by carver9
Naah, I think you are missing the point when we have on panel showings or super humans being unable to see Goku during combat but when he is flying, humans are able to see him.😕
Its right there in front of your face Mike, you are just missing it.
Short burst.
Anyone who wants to argue that travel speed is directly linked to combat speedc, I just tell them:
Look at Val Amorr's history.
Seriously, does he have ONE feat of conventional super speed? The closest I can think of happened pre crisis when he spun Superboy into the ground like a drill, TKOing him. Yet he fights with speedsters all the time.. Daxamites, Kryptonians, Tornado Twins, you name it..
(And I realize Val has no real place on an anime/manga board, but I think he's relevent to this conversation..)
Originally posted by carver9
I already told you why and again, I dont care about their flight speed when their short burst are much more impressive. I already admitted to you that they cant fly at the speed of light.
Not until series end anyways.
Check out the manga, when Gotenks takes his trip around the earth. When they show the cutaway scene of the earth, it looks like you're seeing 7 rings of movement lines...
Originally posted by cdtm
Not until series end anyways.Check out the manga, when Gotenks takes his trip around the earth. When they show the cutaway scene of the earth, it looks like you're seeing 7 rings of movement lines...
Yeah, but that all hinges on if the earth was rotating or not (see other thread).
Originally posted by carver9Fighting together means nothing in DB. If one has a higher power he can take on everybody weaker without a problem. Doesn't mean going from 8,000 to like what 160,000 training to Namek made him 20x faster.
It should be a huge gap since we have people like Raditz only being 1200 power level and Goku and Picollo only being 500 and they were unable to even scratch Raditz hair and they were fighting together. 😕
Originally posted by carver9There isn't a Kaioken x1....and Kaioken x2 just doubles his speed, strength, and ki. So at best Vegeta is twice as fast as Mach 17. Assuming the whole NF thing came out right at placing Gokou at Mach 17. And assuming it's true, going by that it'll be kinda easy to get the slowest possible speed ssj3 Gokou could go.....which would be slower than he actually is.....
You are not getting the point that I am trying to make. Whatever caculations that you all are using for Goku's speed during snake way should be tripled since during using kao ken times one increased his speed by that much and thats just kayo ken times one. He boosted it up further during his fight with Vegeta and frieza.
Originally posted by carver9Super Saiyan is x50 to the base stats. Though still impossible to know how fast he can go as how much faster he got from Earth to Namek is unknown.
Goku using Kayo Ken times 20 was still unable to keep up with Frieza so I am pretty sure Frieza and Goku during Super Sayain mode was fighting at uncontrollable levels of speed. I guess that is why they did so much in 5 minutes before the planet exploded.
Originally posted by Kento
Fighting together means nothing in DB. If one has a higher power he can take on everybody weaker without a problem. Doesn't mean going from 8,000 to like what 160,000 training to Namek made him 20x faster.There isn't a Kaioken x1....and Kaioken x2 just doubles his speed, strength, and ki. So at best Vegeta is twice as fast as Mach 17. Assuming the whole NF thing came out right at placing Gokou at Mach 17. And assuming it's true, going by that it'll be kinda easy to get the slowest possible speed ssj3 Gokou could go.....which would be slower than he actually is.....
Super Saiyan is x50 to the base stats. Though still impossible to know how fast he can go as how much faster he got from Earth to Namek is unknown.
Fighting together means a lot in DBZ and again, they were unable to touch Raditz and it was due to the large gap in power which aided him with his speed and a person with a power level of 8000 fighting someone with a power level of 16000 wouldnt even see the more powerful person during combat. No matter the amount of speed that person had, a person with a power level of 8000 speed is like a snail to the 160000 person. Example...look at Jeice and Burta vs Goku. They didnt even see him flinch throughout the entire fight and they couldnt even touch him and they had a power level in the 60000.
😕
Originally posted by LLLLLink
Yeah, but that all hinges on if the earth was rotating or not (see other thread).
How can you tell if a planet is rotating in a comic? 😕
Its pretty obvious what the writer was trying to show everyone.
It takes people that is trying to discredit the feat and low ball it for anything else to be seen that wasnt what happened on panel.
Originally posted by carver9Not really....Radditz was the only exception cause of his tail, and then being hurt by somebody stronger. Put 18 against everybody from the Freeza Saga and she won't have any trouble at all. They couldn't touch him cause they were slower than him. Doesn't prove how much his speed increased at all.
Fighting together means a lot in DBZ and again, they were unable to touch Raditz and it was due to the large gap in power which aided him with his speed and a person with a power level of 8000 fighting someone with a power level of 16000 wouldnt even see the more powerful person during combat. No matter the amount of speed that person had, a person with a power level of 8000 speed is like a snail to the 160000 person. Example...look at Jeice and Burta vs Goku. They didnt even see him flinch throughout the entire fight and they couldnt even touch him and they had a power level in the 60000.😕
Originally posted by carver9Yea that he went around the world six times....and claimed he went around dozens. And somewhere between forming, and 29 minutes he went around the world those six times. One panel doesn't mean he went around it in one second. Not to mention he still takes almost a minute to get to Buu's house.
Its pretty obvious what the writer was trying to show everyone..
Originally posted by carver9
How can you tell if a planet is rotating in a comic? 😕Its pretty obvious what the writer was trying to show everyone.
It takes people that is trying to discredit the feat and low ball it for anything else to be seen that wasnt what happened on panel.
And besides, even without the travel speed feats, what about when they dodge multiple attacks, like Freeza beams? You can't really argue the FB were "slow" ki attacks, and surely wouldn't be any slower than the attacks used to bust the moon.
And they dodge not one, but multiples like an energizer bunny on crack?
Originally posted by Kento
Not really....Radditz was the only exception cause of his tail, and then being hurt by somebody stronger. Put 18 against everybody from the Freeza Saga and she won't have any trouble at all. They couldn't touch him cause they were slower than him. Doesn't prove how much his speed increased at all.Yea that he went around the world six times....and claimed he went around dozens. And somewhere between forming, and 29 minutes he went around the world those six times. One panel doesn't mean he went around it in one second. Not to mention he still takes almost a minute to get to Buu's house.
His tail dont have anything to do with what we are discussing. I agree, you can put 18 against everybody from the frieza saga and she wont have any trouble because she is more powerful which means that she is faster, stronger, and more durable than everyone from the frieza saga. They wouldnt be able to even touch her if she doesnt want to be touched.
He went around the world in one panel numerous of times and then he took a nap. That is MUCH faster than the speed of light.
Originally posted by cdtm
And besides, even without the travel speed feats, what about when they dodge multiple attacks, like Freeza beams? You can't really argue the FB were "slow" ki attacks, and surely wouldn't be any slower than the attacks used to bust the moon.And they dodge not one, but multiples like an energizer bunny on crack?
I agree with this. They have numerous of showings putting them FAR above the speed of light.
Originally posted by carver9
I agree with this. They have numerous of showings putting them FAR above the speed of light.
How about when Burter and Jeice shot beams at Goku and the beams seemed to phase right through him because he dodged them so fast? These were highly trained Elite soldiers, keep in mind. They would've seen his movements if they were at the level of the "Krillin vs Jackie Chun" fight.