Originally posted by Shoes
*sigh*Once again, if Mace had to parry desperately to save his life, multiple times, Mace won't win 10/10. Mace won't find his shatterpoint every time. More like Mace wins 7.5/10.
Hah, Jedi parry multiple times and win all the time.
It didn't strike me as all that desperate in the movie version, or at all desperate for that matter (serious, sure, but not desperate), but it hardly matters that much.
I think what'll happen is: Mara parries several time (perhaps, yes, desperately. Perhaps not, after all total sword skills doesn't equal anti-blaster parry skills. But she does it in any case) then stabs Jango.
He might use his flame thrower and jetpack to get space, I could see him possibly escaping... but she's the stronger fighter in my book and between Hand training and Jedi training should kill him.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Shoes is Neb. (lol)
S66 is Neb. lol.
See how easy that was?
Originally posted by Q99
Hah, Jedi parry multiple times and win all the time.It didn't strike me as all that desperate in the movie version, or at all desperate for that matter (serious, sure, but not desperate), but it hardly matters that much.
I think what'll happen is: Mara parries several time (perhaps, yes, desperately. Perhaps not, after all total sword skills doesn't equal anti-blaster parry skills. But she does it in any case) then stabs Jango.
He might use his flame thrower and jetpack to get space, I could see him possibly escaping... but she's the stronger fighter in my book and between Hand training and Jedi training should kill him.
1- Prove it wasn't desperate in the movie version. Then tell me how you would visualize Mace desperately parrying.
2- It matters a lot. The word desperate is what my entire argument rests on. If it was desperate, Jango posed a serious and lethal threat to Windu. Windu barely won. Mara is not Windu.
3- Right, Jedi parry multiple times and win. I guess a droid poses as much of a threat to Palpatine as Windu does.
4- Define Jedi training.
Originally posted by Shoes
[B]1- Prove it wasn't desperate in the movie version. Then tell me how you would visualize Mace desperately parrying.
We see his desperate face in the Sidious fight. He doesn't use it. Nor do his blocks look particularly different than normal.
2- It matters a lot. The word desperate is what my entire argument rests on. If it was desperate, Jango posed a serious and lethal threat to Windu. Windu barely won. Mara is not Windu.
Not really. Just because individual blocks were 'desperate' (very slightly desperate by the looks of it) does not mean the fight was ever in the slightest doubt or that another master wouldn't have also managed (perhaps also desperately).
You're really really reaching here. Even in the novel version Mace wasn't exactly pushed to the edge, he just blocked some tricky shots.
3- Right, Jedi parry multiple times and win. I guess a droid poses as much of a threat to Palpatine as Windu does.
Dunno where you're getting this from, so moving on.
4- Define Jedi training.
She's a Jedi master who trained with Luke for years.
Watch the fight:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjnD6NdC3e4
I don't see Mace "desperately" blocking any shots.
EDIT: Well, the novelization did indeed state that he did.
Originally posted by Q99
We see his desperate face in the Sidious fight. He doesn't use it. Nor do his blocks look particularly different than normal.
My god. You are either just plain ignorant, or have some neurological disorder.
1 - Prove Mace used a "desperate" facial expression.
2 - How would you define a "desperate" facial expression?
3 - Why would a facial expression change anything?
4 - Prove facial expressions are canon.
5 - Prove his blocks were different.
6 - How do you know what "normal blocks" look like?
Not really. Just because individual blocks were 'desperate' (very slightly desperate by the looks of it) does not mean the fight was ever in the slightest doubt or that another master wouldn't have also managed (perhaps also desperately).
Once again, I dare you to disprove the novel, just by looking at the screen.
You're really really reaching here. Even in the novel version Mace wasn't exactly pushed to the edge, he just blocked some tricky shots.
This is just low. Now you're disregarding canon.
Dunno where you're getting this from, so moving on.
Really? Maybe if you sat up straight and payed attention in remedial english you could understand. Here is what you wrote:
Hah, Jedi parry multiple times and win all the time.
Now take a look at it again, and try to put the pieces together.
She's a Jedi master who trained with Luke for years.
What sort of training, specifically? Mace was a Jedi Master who trained with Yoda for years.
THAT is where he lacks proof, not the former.
The man was good.
From this small segment, we gather that Mace holds Jango in high regard. The man who beat down Sidious explcitly states that Jango was good. Good implies that Jango can beat him.
Very good.
This reinforces my original statement, that Jango can kill Mace.
More than once
These three words are another fundamental part of my opinion of Jango. Not only did he make one of the greatest Jedi ever bend over backwards to deflect his shots, he did it multiple times. Multiple times. One shot would be lucky. Two shots would be. But multiple times he did this. Multiple times did Windu succumb to awkward, unreliable manoeuvres.
the Jedi had to parry desperately
And finally, we come to desperately. Desperately implies that he is doing something that he normally wouldn't do. Desperately implies that his life in danger. Ultimately, Mace Windu would only do something desperately if he wasn't in control. He didn't control the fight, Jango did. Or rather, neither of them did.
No, shoes builds his arguments with large gaps in the factual foundation.
IF he could prove his statement about Jango almost killing Mace, he might have an argument. Instead, all he has is the word desperately.
Its not enough for any member here except himself, and until he provides more, he continues to be a laughingstock.
Originally posted by Shoes
My god. You are either just plain ignorant, or have some neurological disorder.1 - Prove Mace used a "desperate" facial expression.
2 - How would you define a "desperate" facial expression?
3 - Why would a facial expression change anything?
4 - Prove facial expressions are canon.
5 - Prove his blocks were different.
6 - How do you know what "normal blocks" look like?
I don't think you quite get "standards of evidence."
1, 2, 3, 4- It's call human capacity to recognize facial expression, and of course it's canon, it's in the movies. It'd change things because if someone is calm then they aren't desperate and your argument relied on him being desperate, remember?
5, 6- I'm saying they were normal blocks. He puts his saber in the way and the blast deflects with no excessive effort shown, 6 times in a row, in the same way he does whenever he blocks a droid's blaster. Presumably he cut it closer with Jango's, but the manner in which he did so looked normal.
Once again, I dare you to disprove the novel, just by looking at the screen.
Ok.
*Watches* Yea, his face is visible, he looks serious but he's on the offensive, not looking for a defensive position, not even really running... mannerisms, expression, the fact that he blocked 6 times without so much as getting singed.
These were not the actions of someone with their backs against the figurative wall.
This is just low. Now you're disregarding canon.
No, far from it. I'm saying in the novel it didn't say "Mace almost died" like you were harping, it used the word desperate on some shots.
The movies, if you'll recall, are also canon and higher canon at that.
You're confusing your interpretation of the events for canon.
Really? Maybe if you sat up straight and payed attention in remedial english you could understand. Here is what you wrote:quote:
Hah, Jedi parry multiple times and win all the time.Now take a look at it again, and try to put the pieces together.
Ok, it looks like you're assuming your statement is clearer than it is or that there's a logical connection where there isn't. In no way does "Jedi parry multiple times and win all the time." equal "droids are as big a threat to Palpatine as Windu."
The number of parries simply does not make Jango a threat.
These three words are another fundamental part of my opinion of Jango. Not only did he make one of the greatest Jedi ever bend over backwards to deflect his shots, he did it multiple times. Multiple times. One shot would be lucky. Two shots would be. But multiple times he did this. Multiple times did Windu succumb to awkward, unreliable manoeuvres.
I count zero. But, hey, 6 shots there. Multiple... so, what, 2, 3 of those parries were perhaps desperate? I'd be hard pressed to pick them out. That'd also indicate the rest of those 6 were not desperate.
Mace didn't bend over backwards, and never did the novel say the maneuvers were unreliable, 'desperate' and low probability are not synonyms.
You remain far too focused on one word, and one source- one lower source at that.
Like truejedi said, provide some real evidence and stop harping on one word in the novel version as if it proved far more than the word's actual meaning.