Originally posted by cdtm
On par with Ultra Boy's speed, which is Kryptonian level.Unless we're talking PIS stuff like Zoom.
Well you can't just handwave it all as PIS, when Karate Kid ALSO has PIS (space karate). He still has human muscles, human tendons etc.
If Batman has PIS for his high showings, then so does Karate Kid. But that is besides the point -your original point was that the KKs all had feats WELL beyond Batman's.
Which isn't true.
Edit: and I was referring to the reaction feats.
Originally posted by cdtm
Punched out a guy who deflected bullets with chains and tanks power armor punches.Not jobbing at all.
We're discussing the skill level.
Mandarin certainly is lacking in that department. Hitting hard is not everything.
Look at the Kingpin, for example:
https://i.imgur.com/C9mdcKU.jpg
All that bulk and "natural armor", yet he knows better than to allow himself to get tagged when it's not necessary.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Well you can't just handwave it all as PIS, when Karate Kid ALSO has PIS (space karate). He still has human muscles, human tendons etc.If Batman has PIS for his high showings, then so does Karate Kid. But that is besides the point -your original point was that the KKs all had feats WELL beyond Batman's.
Which isn't true.
Edit: and I was referring to the reaction feats.
Difference between Bruces and Val's PIS, is Val's was built on day one as using space karate to be as fast, strike as hard, and even restrain Pre Crisis Superboy.
It's like Batmans utility belt. Yeah, it's total nonsense how much stuff he keeps in that thing. But that's a well established part of his mythos.
He doesn't use "Bat Fu" to knock out Superman. He pulls a Bat Rocket Launcher with a Kryptonite rocket out of his boot.
Originally posted by cdtm
Difference between Bruces and Val's PIS, is Val's was built on day one as using space karate to be as fast, strike as hard, and even restrain Pre Crisis Superboy.It's like Batmans utility belt. Yeah, it's total nonsense how much stuff he keeps in that thing. But that's a well established part of his mythos.
He doesn't use "Bat Fu" to knock out Superman. He pulls a Bat Rocket Launcher with a Kryptonite rocket out of his boot.
....but still PIS.
And ACTUALLY.....
Same guy against Batman:
..
Context: Batman had just woken up from a coma. Then KOed a guy who was knocking Superman about.
Originally posted by cdtm
Couldn't have anything to do with the fact she's a cute girl. 😛I mean, Equus did level her pretty easy, before Val chopped off his arm.
Val landed a cheapshot on preoccupied Equus there.
That makes him what, Gamora level? She's also good when it comes to blindsiding her foes with those.
But in actual combat, not only she can't land a pressure point strike, she's getting stalemated by the likes of Storm, Nightcrawler or Winter Soldier.
So yeah, KK is trash tier.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
....but still PIS.And ACTUALLY.....
Same guy against Batman:
..
Context: Batman had just woken up from a coma. Then KOed a guy who was knocking Superman about.
Where's that from?
I'll admit it's awesome. But clear cut PIS.
Like I said, it's all about consistency. Val can't dance with Superman speed and strength and still lose to a normal martial artist.
And Batman can't struggle to hit Deathstroke and manage to tag Zoom.
Giving Batman those feats affects every he's ever fought. Is Cassandra Cain able to beat up Superman? Shiva one shot Thor?
Originally posted by cdtm
Where's that from?I'll admit it's awesome. But clear cut PIS.
Like I said, it's all about consistency. Val can't dance with Superman speed and strength and still lose to a normal martial artist.
And Batman can't struggle to hit Deathstroke and manage to tag Zoom.
Giving Batman those feats affects every he's ever fought. Is Cassandra Cain able to beat up Superman? Shiva one shot Thor?
Batman/Superman #10.
So if it IS about consistency, then we are back to square one - which normal martial artist has Val defeated?
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Batman/Superman #10.So if it IS about consistency, then we are back to square one - which normal martial artist has Val defeated?
None.
But he doesn't need to. Val's induction was established as competitive with Pre Crisis Superboy. Every version of Val since has maintained that narrative.
It's not PIS to be on that level when it was with him since his creation, and he has feats to back that up.
However, a struggling at the street level CAN be PIS.
