Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Sure he can.Shadowdragon did so and he's not even considered an elite DC fighter.
Superman holds back though.
Shiva beating SD and Superman strugglling is a definite inconsistency. Just depends on how you want to look at it, either Superman went too easy, or Shadowdragon got nerfed.
I mean, no ones gonna say Shiva can KO Superman right?
Originally posted by Smurph
Except for the version that stalemated Batman?This is getting circular.
Nothing circular about it.
Either Val can do the things he can, or he can't.
If he can, no street had any right beating him. Even if they did.
Another version walked all over Batman.
The same logic applies to Batman, btw. If he can beat up a guy who beat up Superman, his entire career is PIS. He never should have struggled with Tiger Mask, Shiva, Bane.
Unless we argue they scale to Batman beating up Superman beater guy?
Originally posted by cdtm
Superman holds back though.
He pretty much always does.
Originally posted by cdtm
Shiva beating SD and Superman strugglling is a definite inconsistency. Just depends on how you want to look at it, either Superman went too easy, or Shadowdragon got nerfed.I mean, no ones gonna say Shiva can KO Superman right?
No, but she can definitely make him look foolish... which is the best Karate Kid can hope to achieve, too.
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
He pretty much always does.No, but she can definitely make him look foolish... which is the best Karate Kid can hope to achieve, too.
Like Slade makes Flash look foolish?
Sure. But they never pretend Slade's as fast as Flash.
With Val, they do.
There's your difference. Space Karate is a code word for "Super powers".
Originally posted by cdtm
None.But he doesn't need to. Val's induction was established as competitive with Pre Crisis Superboy. Every version of Val since has maintained that narrative.
It's not PIS to be on that level when it was with him since his creation, and he has feats to back that up.
However, a struggling at the street level CAN be PIS.
And Batman has - from his inception - been able to keep up with villains and villainous heroes. They even have explanations for it.
Originally posted by cdtm
Like Slade makes Flash look foolish?
Or Superman.
Originally posted by cdtm
Sure. But they never pretend Slade's as fast as Flash.With Val, they do.
Do they now?
Originally posted by cdtm
There's your difference. Space Karate is a code word for "Super powers".
Those superpowers must suck a lot, if he can't beat an opponent new to anti-grav combat.
Or when his opponent is using basic street fighting techniques.
Fancy styles are not everything, as Catman showed us:
Having fancy & flashy moves is fine... but being effective matters more.
That's why Iron Fist got fisted by Cap, btw:
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Or Superman.Do they now?
Those superpowers must suck a lot, if he can't beat an opponent new to anti-grav combat.
Or when his opponent is using basic street fighting techniques.
Fancy styles are not everything, as Catman showed us:
Having fancy & flashy moves is fine... but being effective matters more.
That's why Iron Fist got fisted by Cap, btw:
I love that scan.
Broke his guard. It proves Danny can definitely defeat Captain America, if he just uses the Iron Fist. 👆
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Let's not forget about Batman putting Grundy in his place... several times in the old and new canon.Then you have his encounters with Despero, Damage and sparrings with Wonder Woman.
Plus one shotting Cheetah, and fighting Blockbuster, plus there was a WW villain he took out with pressure point attack iirc.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Plus one shotting Cheetah, and fighting Blockbuster, plus there was a WW villain he took out with pressure point attack iirc.
Blockbuster actually became Nightwing's villain, lol.
Loved how it was shown and said how he can one-shot-kill powerless humans... but Dick was skilled enough to roll with the blows and "twist his head just in time", avoiding getting killed or even knocked out in every confrontation they've had.
One time, Dick even allowed Blockbuster to beat the living shit out of him, refusing to defend himself, as that would invalidate Blockbuster's testimony.
--
Bats also handed Aquaman's ass to him on a silver platter.
Originally posted by Smurph
What’s the rationale for Bane being so low on this list?
Old thread.
At least he's sharing the same tier as Fisk, who is not lacking in the skills department, either.
The whole tier system should be restarted and done anew, but we no longer have enough posters to be interested in it.