LOK3 Defiance vs. Twilight Princess

Where are you getting these numbers from?

Link does not have better reaction time, or better strength, or more potent magic, or a more powerful weapon.........

Link's capable of dodging/blocking a flurry of whip cracks, too, which is a better reaction feat than Kain has. Link is far stronger than Kain. more than 20 000 times stronger, infact. 😬

I have the numbers somewhere, and will go get them for you. They come from BT's idea that Kain is a certain % stronger than Raziel, who can push 100 tons at about 3 meters per second, or throw 50 a short distance, compared to Link's displayed strength.

also, the master sword is on the same level of power as the triforce itself, and has some really cool powers. Not many of them are incredibly offensive, but it's the perfect weapon for what it does, and is very powerful. Has some incredible showings, too. in one instance it froze time for relative centuries over atleast all of hyrule, while depowered. 😐

Be back with numbers.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Demonstrated speed in cutscenes.

Link's capable of dodging/blocking a flurry of whip cracks, too, which is a better reaction feat than Kain has. Link is far stronger than Kain. more than 20 000 times stronger, infact. 😬

I have the numbers somewhere, and will go get them for you. They come from BT's idea that Kain is a certain % stronger than Raziel, who can push 100 tons at about 3 meters per second, or throw 50 a short distance, compared to Link's displayed strength.

also, the master sword is on the same level of power as the triforce itself, and has some really cool powers. Not many of them are incredibly offensive, but it's the perfect weapon for what it does, and is very powerful. Has some incredible showings, too. in one instance it froze time for relative centuries over atleast all of hyrule, while depowered. 😐

Be back with numbers.

You do realize this is only twilight Link. How is he 20,000 times stronger? You make it out like he could flick Kain's head off while in the game he's getting knocked around left and right.

Remember don't throw any oot or any other game for specifics as I don't want it ruined and this only deals with twilight princess.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
K, using some rough numbers:

This took about 0.7-0.8 of a second, by my admittedly fallible human ability to measure it. You gave a mass of 50 tons.

The block moved approx 1 meter. So, 1 meter in 0.7 seconds = 10 meters in 7 seconds. 10/7 = 1.42847 meters per second. so.. in our example he'd be unable to lift it over his head, but let's use the example where he threw a block up higher (1:09), and call it 2 meters. (hard to tell, the camera is behind Raziel.) This raises it to 2.85 meters per second. So, he'd be able to lift /about/ that much weight overhead.

Let's go ahead anyway:

If K = 1/2mv^2 then K = 184215.2012... joules. (lulz, 2012!)

Now, we know his joule output, K, so we can do...

m=2K/v^2

K = 184215.20126615
and v = 3 (what we decided a character coudl lift over their head.)

so m =:

40936.711392478 kilogram
90250.000000001 pound
40.936711392478 ton metric
45.125000000001 ton short

For Raziel to lift.

Raziel's strength is 184215.2012 joules.

Compare this to Link/Ganon: 4535923699.9975
.........184 215.2012
4 535 923 699.9975
Owch.

Edit, let's call that 200 000 joules for Kain, just to be nice.
That's still insignificant next to 4 000 000 000. Infact, it's twenty thousand times less.

Consider these two beat the crap out of each other in cutscenes.

Also, TP Link is stronger than OoT Link, even with the gauntlets. TP Link stops Ganon in his beast form, and sword locks his gerudo form, without amps. @_@ Ganon is even stronger than OoT Link. So, OoT feats are actually less than what TP is capable of. We know Ganon is stronger because he disarms Link in a cutscene in OoT.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Also, TP Link is stronger than OoT Link, even with the gauntlets. TP Link stops Ganon in his beast form, and sword locks his gerudo form, without amps. @_@ Ganon is even stronger than OoT Link. So, OoT feats are actually less than what TP is capable of. We know Ganon is stronger because he disarms Link in a cutscene in OoT.

Remember please try your best not to bring up oot Link or Ganondorf and just stick to what tp Link and Ganondrof have accomplished.

Midna helped, but had no connection to the ground, Link was all of the stopping power, she simply lifted after Ganon had been stopped. We also have the sword lock in Twilight Princess to show it, too.

Link in TP also demonstrated the ability to spin 585 degrees with his sword extended in 0.1 of a second as well, faster than Kain can attack, or react. Link is much faster, as well as far stronger. In a sword fight it's no contest. He can casually chop arrows out of the air, and if you're good enough, shoot them, but that's a gameplay thing.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Midna helped, but had no connection to the ground, Link was all of the stopping power, she simply lifted after Ganon had been stopped. We also have the sword lock in Twilight Princess to show it, too.

Link in TP also demonstrated the ability to spin 585 degrees with his sword extended in 0.1 of a second as well, faster than Kain can attack, or react. Link is much faster, as well as far stronger. In a sword fight it's no contest. He can casually chop arrows out of the air, and if you're good enough, shoot them, but that's a gameplay thing.

Please, there's no way that weak spin attack is doing anything to Kainas he can easily move backward with his fluid movement.

Link's slower and is nowhere near as strong. The guy was getting shoved around like a wimp by the Gorons, Yeta, etc.

In a sword fight I'd say Link has no chance due to his lack of experience, being weaker, and nowhere near as fast.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Link just shot him with arrows and then in wolf form ran into him so she could take him into the ground with her powers.

Please, there's no way that weak spin attack is doing anything to Kainas he can easily move backward with his fluid movement.

Link's slower and is nowhere near as strong. The guy was getting shoved around like a wimp by the Gorons, Yeta, etc.

In a sword fight I'd say Link has no chance due to his lack of experience, being weaker, and nowhere near as fast.

I just proved Link is far stronger. 😐 Also, got a speed feat for Kain? I dont' see any. Also, Gorons are insanely strong, and I've proven that too, lemme go find a screenshot I took.
there. And Link threw a giant one liek a ragdoll. Link is FAR stronger, demonstrably faster, and actually, more skilled. Kain has no showing of high end skill, Link was trained by the Hero's Shade until he possessed the full power of the Hero. When Link is throwing giant gorons like ragdolls, he's still "unworthy of the tunic". Yeah. 😐

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Ahem?

I just proved Link is far stronger. 😐 Also, got a speed feat for Kain? I dont' see any. Also, Gorons are insanely strong, and I've proven that too, lemme go find a screenshot I took.
there. And Link threw a giant one liek a ragdoll. Link is FAR stronger, demonstrably faster, and actually, more skilled. Kain has no showing of high end skill, Link was trained by the Hero's Shade until he possessed the full power of the Hero. When Link is throwing giant gorons like ragdolls, he's still "unworthy of the tunic". Yeah. 😐

Originally posted by quanchi112
Isn't this from another game? Just stick to the tp stuff. I will debate oot once I go through it.

Basicly: relevant. Link, especially TP Link, is so much stronger than Kain as to not be comparable. He's also a much faster fighter, and has more showings of skill. TP Link ends his game as the Shade's equal, and the shade innitially schools him with hilarious ease. ...After Link's already shredding giant monsters, and cutting arrows out of the air. Kain's got fluid movement, but is slow, and not a physical contender at all. Ganondorf is an even larger threat than Link. In TP, he demonstrates durability beyond attacks that /blow up castles/, and goes toe to toe with Link in a sword fight, to say nothign of his powerful magic.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
That's a Goron strength feat. Showing the strength Gorons possess. Also, Gorons are made of stone, the one Link threw in TP weighed around 200 tons. 😬 On top of already being a giant version of something that stupidly strong. >_>

Basicly: relevant. Link, especially TP Link, is so much stronger than Kain as to not be comparable. He's also a much faster fighter, and has more showings of skill. TP Link ends his game as the Shade's equal, and the shade innitially schools him with hilarious ease. ...After Link's already shredding giant monsters, and cutting arrows out of the air. Kain's got fluid movement, but is slow, and not a physical contender at all. Ganondorf is an even larger threat than Link. In TP, he demonstrates durability beyond attacks that /blow up castles/, and goes toe to toe with Link in a sword fight, to say nothign of his powerful magic.

You can use any strength feat from tp which includes breaking open that cave in.

Kain is crushing giant monsters as well right after his heart's been ripped out. To suggest Kain is slow is being dishonest imo. A goron is slow while Kain is very quick as a character.

Ganondorf still gets killed in sword combat despite the castle feat so at the end of the day Kain can still kill him with his soulreaver.

Going toe to toe with Link in a swordfight isn't that impressive considering the lack of experience Link has in the game.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Ok, but stick to the gorons in the tp game.

You can use any strength feat from tp which includes breaking open that cave in.

Kain is crushing giant monsters as well right after his heart's been ripped out. To suggest Kain is slow is being dishonest imo. A goron is slow while Kain is very quick as a character.

Ganondorf still gets killed in sword combat despite the castle feat so at the end of the day Kain can still kill him with his soulreaver.

Going toe to toe with Link in a swordfight isn't that impressive considering the lack of experience Link has in the game.

Ganondorf loses to /Link/, after four rounds, and Link has the master sword, a weapon on a scale above the soul reaver. Link is stronger and faster than Kain, with a weapon especially powerful against Ganondorf, that is already above the soul reaver. Kain cannot harm Ganondorf, I'm afraid. Ganon's durability is far too high.

Lack of experience? Link is taught by the Hero's Shade, aka, OoT Link, and ends the game a master with some awesome showings of swordsmanship. Far more showings than Kain has. Going toe to toe with Link, who has the master sword, I might add, ontop of this, is /verrry/ impressive. Especially after three prior beatings.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Show Kain is fast, or Kain is not fast. 😬 Feat, nao.

Ganondorf loses to /Link/, after four rounds, and Link has the master sword, a weapon on a scale above the soul reaver. Link is stronger and faster than Kain, with a weapon especially powerful against Ganondorf, that is already above the soul reaver. Kain cannot harm Ganondorf, I'm afraid. Ganon's durability is far too high.

Lack of experience? Link is taught by the Hero's Shade, aka, OoT Link, and ends the game a master with some awesome showings of swordsmanship. Far more showings than Kain has. Going toe to toe with Link, who has the master sword, I might add, ontop of this, is /verrry/ impressive. Especially after three prior beatings.

There's no way you can prove it's above it in terms of combat damage in a sword fight.

If the mages can and Link can so can Kain and to assume he can't is completely ludicrous considering Kain's strength and Link's.

Yes, he is taught in a very short time period and to compare him to Kain who has had over 1,000 years iirc to perfect his abilities and skills is ludicrous.

Kain went toe to toe with the sarafan lord, Raziel, and the elder god who is a monstrous entity.

It's just a boss battle and it seems three forms is the current craze nowadays. The point is Kain slices Ganondorf when he hits him and when did Ganondorf ever resist being cut or stabbed.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I'll have to look through youtube vids as I don't think my xbox works anymore.

There's no way you can prove it's above it in terms of combat damage in a sword fight.

If the mages can and Link can so can Kain and to assume he can't is completely ludicrous considering Kain's strength and Link's.

Yes, he is taught in a very short time period and to compare him to Kain who has had over 1,000 years iirc to perfect his abilities and skills is ludicrous.

Kain went toe to toe with the sarafan lord, Raziel, and the elder god who is a monstrous entity.

It's just a boss battle and it seems three forms is the current craze nowadays. The point is Kain slices Ganondorf when he hits him and when did Ganondorf ever resist being cut or stabbed.

I can: Link is stronger than Kain, and hits harder, and his weapon is super effective against Ganon, who has shown to be durable enough that an attack strong enough to blow up a castle when it hit him didn't even scratch him. The soul reaver has no feat above this, and neither does Kain.

The sages cannot harm Ganondorf, he kills them all with his power sealed away, they need Link. Link can because he's Link and has the master sword. Link is much stronger than Kain with a more powerful weapon.

Time =/= quality. Especially when it only takes Link a few minutes of owning a bow to do this:

IE, showings > time.

Sarafan lord has no feats, Raziel does, but is nowhere near Link in that department, and I know who the EG is 😛 It attacked him with a few tentacles, wasn't a spectacular showing.

Kain is not strong enough, nor is his weapon powerful enough, and Ganondorf does, actually. How do you propose Kain damages someone who can tank an attack sostrong it blows up a castle? This is liek me kicking you in the nuts so hard your house explodes, and you're fine? 😬

Kain can't. Also, even if Kain's skill were comparable to Link's, Link's got the edge in speed in spades.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Fair nuff, will wait for feats.

I can: Link is stronger than Kain, and hits harder, and his weapon is super effective against Ganon, who has shown to be durable enough that an attack strong enough to blow up a castle when it hit him didn't even scratch him. The soul reaver has no feat above this, and neither does Kain.

The sages cannot harm Ganondorf, he kills them all with his power sealed away, they need Link. Link can because he's Link and has the master sword. Link is much stronger than Kain with a more powerful weapon.

Time =/= quality. Especially when it only takes Link a few minutes of owning a bow to do this:

IE, showings > time.

Sarafan lord has no feats, Raziel does, but is nowhere near Link in that department, and I know who the EG is 😛 It attacked him with a few tentacles, wasn't a spectacular showing.

Kain is not strong enough, nor is his weapon powerful enough, and Ganondorf does, actually. How do you propose Kain damages someone who can tank an attack sostrong it blows up a castle? This is liek me kicking you in the nuts so hard your house explodes, and you're fine? 😬

Kain can't. Also, even if Kain's skill were comparable to Link's, Link's got the edge in speed in spades.

Kain's described as stronger and faster than any mortal man.

Here's a vid showing off how strong he is as he easily catches him and tosses him a decent distance with minimal to no effort on his part.

Later in the video when Raziel attacks him one magical blast sends him reeling across the room and he wasn't even trying to defeat Raziel.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jws63E9dNN8
The sages defeat Ganondorf and only through their hate bleeding across the void does Ganondorf come back to here because he was defeated by the mages.

Yes, Link has very good skill but he's at an extreme disadvantage considering Kain is already stronger and faster than any mortal man when his vampiric powers are only just returning to him in blood omen 2 and before he has reached his full potential.

How does the Sarafan Lord have no showings? He eventually bested Raziel once and the other time went one on one with Kain and won because he had the nexus stone.

Kain is a lot stronger than Link, along with more fearsome, more brutal, smarter, more experience, and a good deal quicker.

Link's nowhere near as powerful or as quick as Kain. He can't run circles around skilled opponents he needs the skills to beat them while no man is anywhere near Kain in terms of battle.

Kain's described as stronger and faster than any mortal man.

I get you are really impressed with the castle blowup fight but it was when he appeared as a head and we didn't see what actually happened. To make matter worse he was defeated in a swordbattle so surprise, surprise guess what Kain is going to do to him. he isn't going to be dropping any castles on him in case you were wondering.

Here's a vid showing off how strong he is as he easily catches him and tosses him a decent distance with minimal to no effort on his part.

Later in the video when Raziel attacks him one magical blast sends him reeling across the room and he wasn't even trying to defeat Raziel.

The sages defeat Ganondrof and only through their hate bleeding across the void does Ganondorf come back to here becaause he was defeated by the mages.

Yes, Link has very good skill but he's at an extreme disadvantage considering Kain is already stronger and faster than any mortal man when his vampiric powers are only just returning to him in blood omen 2 and before he has reached his full potential.

How does the Sarafan Lord have no showings? He eventually bested Raziel once and the other time went one on one with Kain and won because he had the nexus stone.

Kain is a lot stronger than Link,

along with more fearsome, more brutal, smarter, more experience, and a good deal quicker.

Link's nowhere near as powerful or as quick as Kain.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
This means: humans. Link is well above any human.
A swordfight against an individual that isstronger, faster, more skilled, and has a better weapon than Kain.
You forgot to post a video, but I've seen it and know the things you're referrign too. These aren't enough.

They wound him [b]before he receives the ToP, and then they only manage to send him away by sucking him into the mirror of twilight.
Link is far faster and far stronger than any mortal man, too... You cannot use something referring to base humans to claim Kain is stronger and faster than someone from another universe just because he is a vampire.

Winning against a young Kain isn't a big deal. 😬 and Raziel has no real showings of skill, and is below Kain in overall power.

No. Link throws super strong living rocks like ragdolls and competes physicly with Ganondorf. Kain is nowhere close to this strong.
No, no and no. Experience in terms of time? Sure, overall challenges faced? Link wins. Demonstratable skill? Link wins. Speed? Link wins. And I've proven that, find a feat, or Kain is not stronger or faster. You cannot just claim it like fact without evidence. Link is not a "mortal man" from the LoK universe.

Wrong, and I've told you why. Provide evidence, or stop spouting this in the face of evidence against it. [/B]

I doubt it. The Master sword like I just said can be blocked by a skilled human fighter in a nice coat of armor. There's nothing special about these enemies and yet the master sword can't even do real damage unless it finds the weak point.

I edited it and posted it. There's no sound on my pc so I can't hear what the characters are saying either so it sucks looking for videos.

And Link woulds him after and this all takes place after countless battles where other armored opponents parry Link's master sword blows. The point is if Link can pierce Ganon's skin Kain is going to carve him up real nice. There's no reason to believe otherwise because there's no feats in this game of him resisting any and he's up against Kain and his soulreaver.

Link runs across base humans and yeah he's more skilled but he's never put on a pedestal here above them physically just that he's the chosen one. Kain is well above them and can snap a neck quite easily and drain their blood for sustenance.

A younger Kain was still a beast and this was before he was weakened and had to rediscover his powers. That's a rather impressive feat since Link hardly grew up at all in this game while Kain's had hundreds of years in between games whereas Link has what a few weeks/months?

Link needs his iron boots which destroy his mobility so he can put them on as Kain won't be coming at him in a rolling ball like the silly Gorons so he'll get carved up real nice.

Yes, he has lived centuries while Link has only had one huge adventure putting him at a huge disadvantage.

Skill--I see Kain prevailing here as he has had much longer to perfect his swordsmanship and is already a physical specimen while Link isn't.

Speed--Kain is much faster than a person who is on par with an elite human in terms of speed.

You haven't proven the strength feats either as he needs equipment to toss a Goron which is cheating the Mayor wanted to conceal. It's not brute strength when you are wearing iron boots. 😉

There's no evidence against it. Kain's far and away faster than any mortal man at his weakest in blood omen when his powers are returning while Link isn't. Link hasn't demonstrated a real advantage over anyone in terms of speed.

We see Link fight against human beings basically in armor. He needs skill to beat them. He isn't stronger, has a much better weapon, and they still can block his attacks and parry them.

I doubt it. The Master sword like I just said can be blocked by a skilled human fighter in a nice coat of armor. There's nothing special about these enemies and yet the master sword can't even do real damage unless it finds the weak point.

And Link woulds him after and this all takes place after countless battles where other armored opponents parry Link's master sword blows. The point is if Link can pierce Ganon's skin Kain is going to carve him up real nice. There's no reason to believe otherwise because there's no feats in this game of him resisting any and he's up against Kain and his soulreaver.

The soulreaver is not as powerful as the master sword, it is not "super effective" against Ganon, whom the master sword smites because he is evil. Kain has no feats of strength even close to Link.

A younger Kain was still a beast and this was before he was weakened and had to rediscover his powers. That's a rather impressive feat since Link hardly grew up at all in this game while Kain's had hundreds of years in between games whereas Link has what a few weeks/months?

Kain has no feats or showings comparable to a great spin or helm splitter, his attacks are slower, and he's never fought someone like Ganon who can jump 30 feet in the air to dodge an arrow shot form behind him just because he can, or block an attack in less than 0.1 of a second.

Link needs his iron boots which destroy his mobility so he can put them on as Kain won't be coming at him in a rolling ball like the silly Gorons so he'll get carved up real nice.

Yes, he has lived centuries while Link has only had one huge adventure putting him at a huge disadvantage.

Skill--I see Kain prevailing here as he has had much longer to perfect his swordsmanship and is already a physical specimen while Link isn't.

Speed--Kain is much faster than a person who is on par with an elite human in terms of speed.

Link's capable of swining his sword in less than 0.02 of a second. He is faster. He can cut arrows out of the air, and /none/ of his enemies are "eilte humans". Infact, his low level enemies are shown absolutely embarrassing elite humans early in the game.

You haven't proven the strength feats either as he needs equipment to toss a Goron which is cheating the Mayor wanted to conceal. It's not brute strength when you are wearing iron boots.

There's no evidence against it. Kain's far and away faster than any mortal man at his weakest in blood omen when his powers are returning while Link isn't. Link hasn't demonstrated a real advantage over anyone in terms of speed.

Let's not ignore he can cut arrows out of the air, slaughter super human monsters by the thousands, react to teleporters, outfight airborne enemies while on what amounts to a rail-skateboard, and in a cutscene, casually hop out of the way of a sword thrown so hard it embedded itself into stone. will get numbers for how fast it moves, if you want?

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
You mean when Link, within moments of owning a sword in aLttP, humiliates the entire army of Hyrule? That's the onyl tiem he fights normal humans I can recall, and they're amped by Ganon's magic. 😬 Also, GJ on the gameplay mechanics. Gameplay mechanics are not a valid point for an argument. Every protagonist comes across grunt enemies in their games.
Examples? If you mean Darknuts: 1, lol at them ebing normal people, 2, gameplay mechanics, considering Ganon is also wearign armour, and Link can hurt him just fine. There'd be no fun in playing a game if the only challenge was at the end, 20 hours later.

mariofacepalm You can't be serious. 😐 You're using gameplay mechanics, flawed logic, and denial of feats to try and patch together a way Kain can even think about harming Ganondorf? Link utterly humiliates the army of hyrule single handedly the only time he has humans as enemies. The enemies you are referrign too, Darknuts, can throw swords so hard they embed themselves into solid stone, or shatter it. The [b]player needs skill to beat them because otherwise the game is boring. That sort of feat is /nothing/ to Link, who, as I keep reminding you, tosses giant super-strong rocks like ragdolls. It's nothing but gameplay. The line of reasoning you're using allows:
Kratos to be killed by normal men, Dante to be killed by low end enemies with scythes, Kain to be killed by normal men, Sonic the hedgehog to be killed by a few well placed metal spikes, so on and so forth. It's flawed. Also, dumah, the most physicly powerful vampire, was infact impaled by normal men. 🙂

The soulreaver is not as powerful as the master sword, it is not "super effective" against Ganon, whom the master sword smites because he is evil. Kain has no feats of strength even close to Link.

I already outlined why time doesn't matter. Within minutes of owning a bow, Link shot an inch thick pole on top of a building on the far end of a canyon just to be a show off. This took moments. Link, while being trained by the Hero's Shade, OoT Link, attains total mastery of swordsmanship by the end of TP.

Kain has no feats or showings comparable to a great spin or helm splitter, his attacks are slower, and he's never fought someone like Ganon who can jump 30 feet in the air to dodge an arrow shot form behind him just because he can, or block an attack in less than 0.1 of a second.

The boots, accurate to physics, are an anchor. No matter how strong you are, if somethign heavier than you is in motion, and collides with you, the transfer of energy will cause you to move, unless you have an anchor. Link has that kind of strength on his own, the boots are required only to anchor him. Welcome to physics.
those "centuries" could have been wasted jerking it to girlpires and sodomising the other vampires for lulz. Time =/= skill. It's handy, but all that time does not give him a skill advantage over someone with actual showingso f skill, and an ability to master weapons in minutes.

Time isn't important. Showings are. Feat, now, or gtfo. Link's mastered swordsmanship to a degree Kain has never shown. Also, Link isn't a physical specimen? the dude is more than 20 000 times stronger than Kain. 😐 As I've proved.

haermm Uh, lol?

Link's capable of swining his sword in less than 0.02 of a second. He is faster. He can cut arrows out of the air, and /none/ of his enemies are "eilte humans". Infact, his low level enemies are shown absolutely embarrassing elite humans early in the game.
The boots don't make him stronger, only heavier. That strength is all him. as I explained, physics. Also, he stopped beast Ganon, and swordlocked Ganondorf, tripped Firus: (Read, over powering a giant super strong version of a giant super strong living rock.) His Goron tossign feat? He was still a "disgrace" to the power of the hero. haermm by the end of the game that would be child's play to him.

give me a feat, please. Also, Link isn't a "mortal man" and attacking in two hundredths of a second or less is pretty incredibly fast. 🙂

Let's not ignore he can cut arrows out of the air, slaughter super human monsters by the thousands, react to teleporters, outfight airborne enemies while on what amounts to a rail-skateboard, and in a cutscene, casually hop out of the way of a sword thrown so hard it embedded itself into stone. will get numbers for how fast it moves, if you want? [/B]

Why do you keep bringing up other Links?

Whether I use gameplay mechanics it still doesn't invalidate my point. He is taught skills to fight past these things because he needs them. Kain has always been much faster and stronger while Link has always had to learn how to use the skills of the fallen hero.

My point is nowhere in this game is the master sword even alluded to as the end all be all weapon. It's a sword created to defeat this threat but in terms of plot device weapons it's pretty low on the sale imo.

When does Link humiliate human beings in this game? What does that have to do with anything? In this game I see a bunch of pansies as Hyrules's army and the resistance is a bunch of fools who meet together at Telma's to discuss matters. It's just a bunch of ragtag rif raffs hanging out with tidbits of knowledge here and there.

Ok, point taken but I brought it up to demonstrate his master sword though was being greatly exaggerated.

How is the soulreaver not as powerful as the master sword? If anything it seems like this land's answer to evil while the soulreaver in it's game makes you invincible. I think I'd like my odds with the soulreaver considering you cannot die while in possession of the sword, hands down.

You haven't proven you need superhuman strength anyways to wound Ganondorf as both sides did so.

😂

So what? He needed to be taught various skills throughout the game and wasn't unbeatable or anything otherwise plus you showed me something that has to do with gameplay. The player is skilled and does so but this isn't canon to the events of the story. You yourself now want to use gameplay mechanics while at the same time earlier in this very post dismissing them completely.

He was taught the art of sumo and along with the boots can pull off the feat. Like I said without the boots he gets smashed so I fail to see how this is impressive by any means considering he is using sumo wrestling and an item to pull off a strength feat.

You are arguing gameplay mechanics here again. In the game we see how fast he is in cutscenes and suffice it say he isn't fast and if you want to go the game mechanics route he's slow as hell and awkward while it's easy as pie to move out of the way from a spin attack.

Those centuries weren't wasted and more experience is always an advantage over less experience especially since he doesn't get older and out of his physical peak.

Link's skills while exceptional don't really prepare him for someone like Kain who is far faster and far stronger.

No, Link isn't anywhere close. His only showing is pushing someone due to iron boots keeping his body firmly on the ground to achieve it. This actually destroys his mobility and he's welcome to try to engage Kain in sumo wrestling and we will see how this turns out.

Game play mechanics again.

I have already explained myself and you take the stopping Ganondorf out of context as it was all Midna who took him to the ground. She said I'll take care of it just get basically in front of him and attack him while he's down.

That's fine if he can cut arrows out of the air as Kain won't be shooting any arrows and will be engaging him in swordplay while he went back and forth with a much slower Ganondorf who can parry most of his attacks.

Where are you getting he slaughtered superhuman monsters by the thousands here? Kain has been against all sides with almost everyone wanting his death while Link has had a lot of help from Midna, Zelda, and the light spirits to aid him against Ganondorf.

Kain went right at the elder god and defeated him moments after he realized how massive and powerful this enemy was. Kain is just above any elite human type skilled level character with a nice sword and a nice shield.

Originally posted by quanchi112
You can't prove that by any means so quit acting like Kainverse is just mightier than zeldaverse. That's what fanboys do explain away everything like their verse is just more powerful in every regard without proving it.

How do you know the eg is immune to what they have? For you to prove that you need to show any zelda character attacking eg and failing? so since you can't prove it you have no choice but to concede.

The fact he was unsuccessful has nothing to do with the fact he showed up with an army he needed anyways. He needed the army because he can't just beat an army on his own. It's obvious and any honest person playing the games knows he can't solo the army.

I don't know why he didn't the same reason Kain doesn't mist in and out through virtually every battle he gets into.

I know he wasn't trying to defeat the possessed raziel but he still got beat despite the fact he can teleport and use his mist right so why didn't he? According to you no one can touch him so please explain.

Kain was ko'd when his heart was ripped out and for a longer period than Ganondorf who was subdued by various mages off screen.

Kain will be locked in battle with Ganondorf so he will be right up on him. He can also teleport and shoot phantom ganon riders after him while on his trusty horsey.

It's the scene where he was chained up and the mages tried to kill him. Dunno where it is online have to look around youtube.

You are taking his comment out of context. He can't solo an army and never has been able to so quit just making things up.

I dont have to prove it to you if youve played the games and I have proven it to those who dont. Soul devouring, blood manipulation and mind control are all>a sword like the MS.

Because they use either physical or spiritual attacks which the EG cannot be hit/harmed by.

Is your whole argument on this matter he needed an army because in the scene he just happened to have one? because if so thats completly wrong, he came with an army because his goal is to take over Nosgoth, also making the assumption he needed it is unfounded.

You cant think of a single reason why the EG would not use his full size? its pretty obvious...and Kain didnt mist in and out because he has no reason to, why would he do that?

Its called PIS, plot induced stupidity because if Kain misted and used TK to hold Raziel down until he calmed it would end the plot.

We dont know how long Kain was Koed, evidence would suggest a minute or so if that. Also we dont know how long Ganondorf is was out cold after being beaten in the war. We know it takes generations for him to come back after being beaten between each game as a new link takes up the old ones mantle.

And Kain can stop that from happening from the get go by TKing Ganon in the air and playing him like a puppet to join the rest of his "puppet" Ganons 😉

All they did was send a sword into him, apart from that their useless and pathetic and sit by for a minute or so while he frees himself doing nothing. Only to seal him while he shows a moment of stupidity by standing around for a few minutes.

Soloing an army would be simple for Kains intelligent combined with a perfect set of powers for the job.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice

Thats endurance, not resistance. Its still right through him.

This can never be proven, the guy gets slashed in the head when defeated and is beaten by a Link without the Master sword halfway through the point where he cant even keep up a ring of fire.

Gameplay based on equally featless entities, this does not make them powerful. Still, stunnned/beaten by a weapon thats not the Mastersword.

Their weak because they do nothing and turn to dust.

Them being the only ones capable of using it does not automatically mean they had it against Ganon. Show me the statements, I await to see some hyperbole, ambigious statements from fallible characters.

You just said I do not provide evidence only to point out where I have shown evidence.....you just crushed your own argument.

What lifting fully armourd knights in comparisons to Ganons incredible Tking of a tiny imp and a young woman? and this mist seperation is just a constantly repeated statement thats not been proven. Its faster in most cases than I previously thought. Also not proven, thats as poor a claim as none of Ganons powers work on anyone whos a vampire, unfounded. Just over 40 tons each, Raziel can move 2 and Kain manhandles him. This strength is more than enough to stop Ganondorf.

Originally posted by The Scenario
Yes it does. Do you not remember giant (not) flaming head form? Ganondorf's body can be completely destroyed and he'll reform within 60 seconds.

Also, I find it ridiculous that you're claiming that the Elder God is invulnerable to everything because its canon, yet you won't let Ganondorf have the same thing despite his invulnerability also being canon. There are statements within the game that say Ganondorf can't be defeated without the Master Sword, just like the Elder God. It's the same thing, but you just hate Zelda.

Please provide feats if you want to claim otherwise. That's what I always do.

Edit: quanchi, BT hasn't played any Zelda game. Ever. He just hates everything about them.

Thats not the same thing, thats like Kain turning to mist when wounded and reforming. Also Ganons spirit will be destroyed, half of the LoK cast take/destroy the soul, and the EG can spin him in the wheel of fate and rebirth him as someone else.

Ganondorf invulerability is not truth at all, Ganondorf just happens to be damaged more by the Master sword. Light arrows, biggorons sword and megaton hammer are all effective against him in OoT. Their completly different as EG actually is a unphysical being who is neither harmed by the material/spiritual world.

No you dont, thats what I always do unless its been shown before. You usually show something ambigious and give your opinion.

No, I hate the fanon and fanboy rubbish that has followed them since Screampaste and Moocows nonsense.

Originally posted by LLLLLink
Lol @ Kain being smarter than G-dorf. You reeeeeaaaaally need to play OoT. Everything we are saying will make sense once you do.

Kain across his thousands of years has outplayed race after race, including a nigh omnicient Elder God in planet/Nosgothwide strategies across all of time. He is far beyond Ganondorf mentally.

Originally posted by The Scenario
Tanking that sword, the castle, Madna, etc. are all better than Kain's durability feats.

Again, Link is strong enough to toss multi-ton Gorons.

bullshit, Kains taken the PSi at the end of Raziels claws without a scratch. Ganondorf based on real feats would be gutted and clawed open by the same attack.

Gorons are only slightly lighter than Links weight+Iron boots.

Originally posted by LLLLLink
Nah, Link has training from the Hero's Shade including instant death moves. "There is no defense for this." - Hero's Shade

Plus, the Master Sword is the perfect weapon for evil beings like Kain. Also, Link has dealt with teleporting enemies before, and I think you are underestimating the power of a shield. Also, Link has the Magic Armor, making him fully invincible until his money runs out. But that might not happen, if this fight is in Hyrule and there is money lying everywhere. 😛

Kains an anti-hero, not really evil at all tbh. Link has dealt with a couple of predictable teleporters who teleported very short distances. Magic armor is a featless no limit fallacy.

Originally posted by The Scenario
The Master Sword cancels out his durability and powers. Think what would happen if Kain got stabbed with something that canceled his vampirism, and you've got the Master Sword.

Originally posted by LLLLLink
Also, the Master Sword prevents TK. Always has.

And some lies

Originally posted by ScreamPaste

Most of his posts are lies.

Reading through Screampastes tired list of rubbish that hes posted in so many threads shows his ignorance. Overwanking of some really poor showings until their at high levels is his only argument and plays on toonforce.

Kains PSI from Raziels attack (which did not harm him) hits the thousands of tonnes barrier due to less area being covered. Ganons never actually blocked PSI nor has he any real impressive durability/strength feats. Knocking a sword out of a kids hand does not>his toonforce strength that are not based on real physics furthermore Ganon was a flaming/spiritual head when the castle exploded from means that came from either Ganon or Midna or both which means his durability is again irrelevent.

ONE Soul reaver slash and Ganon is gone, one dimentional teleport and Kain can take out Ganon, Link, Midna and Zelda before they can react. And they will lose their souls in the process.

Kain is described as above any human while Link is not. He receives the proper training and because of destiny is who he is he's not some gifted character like Kain who can turn into mist and jump incredible distances.

My point is nowhere in this game is the master sword even alluded to as the end all be all weapon. It's a sword created to defeat this threat but in terms of plot device weapons it's pretty low on the sale imo.

Why do you keep bringing up other Links?

Whether I use gameplay mechanics it still doesn't invalidate my point.

When does Link humiliate human beings in this game? What does that have to do with anything? In this game I see a bunch of pansies as Hyrules's army and the resistance is a bunch of fools who meet together at Telma's to discuss matters. It's just a bunch of ragtag rif raffs hanging out with tidbits of knowledge here and there.

Ok, point taken but I brought it up to demonstrate his master sword though was being greatly exaggerated.

How is the soulreaver not as powerful as the master sword? If anything it seems like this land's answer to evil while the soulreaver in it's game makes you invincible. I think I'd like my odds with the soulreaver considering you cannot die while in possession of the sword, hands down.

You haven't proven you need superhuman strength anyways to wound Ganondorf as both sides did so.

So what? He needed to be taught various skills throughout the game and wasn't unbeatable or anything otherwise plus you showed me something that has to do with gameplay. The player is skilled and does so but this isn't canon to the events of the story. You yourself now want to use gameplay mechanics while at the same time earlier in this very post dismissing them completely.

Link isn't unbeatable, ofcourse, there are characters who can best him, but Kain is not one of them.

He was taught the art of sumo and along with the boots can pull off the feat. Like I said without the boots he gets smashed so I fail to see how this is impressive by any means considering he is using sumo wrestling and an item to pull off a strength feat.

You are arguing gameplay mechanics here again. In the game we see how fast he is in cutscenes and suffice it say he isn't fast and if you want to go the game mechanics route he's slow as hell and awkward while it's easy as pie to move out of the way from a spin attack.

Those centuries weren't wasted and more experience is always an advantage over less experience especially since he doesn't get older and out of his physical peak.

Link's skills while exceptional don't really prepare him for someone like Kain who is far faster and far stronger.

So, please, prove your claim. Kain cannot dream of being fater or stronger than Link. I have feats to prove that, you do not. Until you provide proof, I accept your concession.

No, Link isn't anywhere close. His only showing is pushing someone due to iron boots keeping his body firmly on the ground to achieve it. This actually destroys his mobility and he's welcome to try to engage Kain in sumo wrestling and we will see how this turns out.

Game play mechanics again.

I have already explained myself and you take the stopping Ganondorf out of context as it was all Midna who took him to the ground. She said I'll take care of it just get basically in front of him and attack him while he's down.

That's fine if he can cut arrows out of the air as Kain won't be shooting any arrows and will be engaging him in swordplay while he went back and forth with a much slower Ganondorf who can parry most of his attacks.

Where are you getting he slaughtered superhuman monsters by the thousands here? Kain has been against all sides with almost everyone wanting his death while Link has had a lot of help from Midna, Zelda, and the light spirits to aid him against Ganondorf.

Kain went right at the elder god and defeated him moments after he realized how massive and powerful this enemy was. Kain is just above any elite human type skilled level character with a nice sword and a nice shield.

I accept your concession.