LOK3 Defiance vs. Twilight Princess

Originally posted by Burning thought
I dont have to prove it to you if youve played the games and I have proven it to those who dont. Soul devouring, blood manipulation and mind control are all>a sword like the MS.

Because they use either physical or spiritual attacks which the EG cannot be hit/harmed by.

Is your whole argument on this matter he [b]needed an army because in the scene he just happened to have one? because if so thats completly wrong, he came with an army because his goal is to take over Nosgoth, also making the assumption he needed it is unfounded.

You cant think of a single reason why the EG would not use his full size? its pretty obvious...and Kain didnt mist in and out because he has no reason to, why would he do that?

Its called PIS, plot induced stupidity because if Kain misted and used TK to hold Raziel down until he calmed it would end the plot.

We dont know how long Kain was Koed, evidence would suggest a minute or so if that. Also we dont know how long Ganondorf is was out cold after being beaten in the war. We know it takes generations for him to come back after being beaten between each game as a new link takes up the old ones mantle.

And Kain can stop that from happening from the get go by TKing Ganon in the air and playing him like a puppet to join the rest of his "puppet" Ganons 😉

All they did was send a sword into him, apart from that their useless and pathetic and sit by for a minute or so while he frees himself doing nothing. Only to seal him while he shows a moment of stupidity by standing around for a few minutes.

Soloing an army would be simple for Kains intelligent combined with a perfect set of powers for the job.

Thats endurance, not resistance. Its still right through him.

This can never be proven, the guy gets slashed in the head when defeated and is beaten by a Link without the Master sword halfway through the point where he cant even keep up a ring of fire.

Gameplay based on equally featless entities, this does not make them powerful. Still, stunnned/beaten by a weapon thats not the Mastersword.

Their weak because they do nothing and turn to dust.

Them being the only ones capable of using it does not automatically mean they had it against Ganon. Show me the statements, I await to see some hyperbole, ambigious statements from fallible characters.

You just said I do not provide evidence only to point out where I have shown evidence.....you just crushed your own argument.

What lifting fully armourd knights in comparisons to Ganons incredible Tking of a tiny imp and a young woman? and this mist seperation is just a constantly repeated statement thats not been proven. Its faster in most cases than I previously thought. Also not proven, thats as poor a claim as none of Ganons powers work on anyone whos a vampire, unfounded. Just over 40 tons each, Raziel can move 2 and Kain manhandles him. This strength is more than enough to stop Ganondorf.

Thats not the same thing, thats like Kain turning to mist when wounded and reforming. Also Ganons spirit will be destroyed, half of the LoK cast take/destroy the soul, and the EG can spin him in the wheel of fate and rebirth him as someone else.

Ganondorf invulerability is not truth at all, Ganondorf just happens to be damaged more by the Master sword. Light arrows, biggorons sword and megaton hammer are all effective against him in OoT. Their completly different as EG actually is a unphysical being who is neither harmed by the material/spiritual world.

No you dont, thats what I always do unless its been shown before. You usually show something ambigious and give your opinion.

No, I hate the fanon and fanboy rubbish that has followed them since Screampaste and Moocows nonsense.

Kain across his thousands of years has outplayed race after race, including a nigh omnicient Elder God in planet/Nosgothwide strategies across all of time. He is far beyond Ganondorf mentally.

bullshit, Kains taken the PSi at the end of Raziels claws without a scratch. Ganondorf based on real feats would be gutted and clawed open by the same attack.

Gorons are only slightly lighter than Links weight+Iron boots.

Kains an anti-hero, not really evil at all tbh. Link has dealt with a couple of predictable teleporters who teleported very short distances. Magic armor is a featless no limit fallacy.

And some lies

Most of his posts are lies.

Reading through Screampastes tired list of rubbish that hes posted in so many threads shows his ignorance. Overwanking of some really poor showings until their at high levels is his only argument and plays on toonforce.

Kains PSI from Raziels attack (which did not harm him) hits the thousands of tonnes barrier due to less area being covered. Ganons never actually blocked PSI nor has he any real impressive durability/strength feats. Knocking a sword out of a kids hand does not>his toonforce strength that are not based on real physics furthermore Ganon was a flaming/spiritual head when the castle exploded from means that came from either Ganon or Midna or both which means his durability is again irrelevent.

ONE Soul reaver slash and Ganon is gone, one dimentional teleport and Kain can take out Ganon, Link, Midna and Zelda before they can react. And they will lose their souls in the process. [/B]

In each game the wielder always had to win swordfights.

In this thread he can just like Ganondorf is susceptible to sword attacks.

It's obvious he needed an entire army otherwise he'd get overwhelmed. Kain is a legendary character but not one who can solo armies on the battlefield nor has he shown the ability to do so.

To mist in and out against any opponent would make it that much more difficult to hurt him but since he didn't do it he likely won't as that's using the powerset argument. He does it when he has to here and there but isn't constantly changing back and forth using his powers in the manner you are describing.

We can't use pis here it's a convenient way to cbr Kain up and forget how he normally handles himself here.

We know how he was ko'd it's obvious when he was tk'd after his heart was ripped out it laid him out for a little while.

Ganondorf just survived having a sword lodged in him and was successfully bfr'd when he stood against multiple enemies here. I know Ganondorf was defeated but to face off against various mages and to take one out after being captured and at their mercy is still impressive.

We can't say either character can solo armies because they really haven't shown the ability to and each nemesis throughout the games has been more than enough to occupy them so acting like they can take on this with hundreds of troops attacking this is simply rubbish.

YouTube video

Link lifting a 200+ ton Dangoro and tossing him around. The Iron Boots are there to allow Link to stop the roll, since Dangoro is much heavier than Link. But if you look closely, it is quite clearly seen that Link lifts him off the ground in order to toss him, something the Iron Boots would help with. Against someone who wieghs the same as Link, like Kain, the Iron Boots aren't necessary.

YouTube video

Now look at how Link stops Ganon here. Again, Midna just allows Link to stop the charge. Ganon is pressing down on Midna, and she's using Link for support. See how Ganon moves forward and Link sets his paws and stops him? Midna had nothing to with tha. Even in Wolf form, Link is extremely strong.

YouTube video

Hey, Scream, look what I found. Check out 0:24 and tell me what you see.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Link, unlike Kain, actually /shows/ that he is above any human. consistently.
The weapon is a direct failsafe to the most powerful artifact in the entire zelda universe: it's very powerful. 🙂 It's the only weapon powerful enough to put Ganondorf down in that universe. It also smites him because it's the blade of evil's bane; the soulreaver is not. Not only is it less powerful, but it lacks the defining feature that allows the master sword to do what it does.

You said he had human enemies, aLttP is the only time he does. So, you did.

Yes, it does. Link is taught the skills he needs to defeat Ganondorf, and the powerful bosses, not the grunts. Also, he is steadily becoming more powerful through out the entire game of Twilight Princess. To say Link can best Ganondorf in a sword fight, and that Dark Nuts are any sort of challenge at that point indicates a /very/ high opinion of Darknuts.

when he beats shadowbeasts easily by himself 😐 The knights of Hyrule were humiliated by them. these are elite humans, what you compared Link to.

Brougth what up? It is not being exaggerated, it is a failsafe to the misuse of the triforce. 😬 you can't really exaggerate that without going out of your way to claim the triforce is more powerful than it is. What the triforce is: is far and away more powerful than the soul reaver. Even while depowered the master sword can freeze time over /atleast/ all of hyrule for relative centuries.

No limit fallacy. the sword is not as powerful because it has never, ever, shown itself to be as powerful. Anything more powerful than the soul reaver will laugh at that little rule. 😉

Yes, I have.
1. Ganondorf tanks a castle busting attack unharmed.
2. Ganondorf is wearing armour.
3. Ganondorf's body is > stone.
4. Ganondorf's had swords bounce off of him, in a cutscene, infact.
5. Link is far and away stronger than any human could hope to be in their wildest dreams, Ganon can survive 4 consecutive hits to his face, in a cutscene, after two beatings, with the master sword, and he's just really pissed.
🙂

Don't quite know what you're replying to here, but nah, I'm not using gameplay mechanics?

Link isn't unbeatable, ofcourse, there are characters who can best him, but Kain is not one of them.
The Goron's use sumo wrestling as their strength test, Link had to play along, you don't seem to realise Link still had to overpower the Gorons to win? Being heavy is nice, but it doesn't give you the strength to wrestle a Goron. You're also ignoring the fightsi n the Goron mines that were nto sumo matches, where Link proved he is stronger. This all occurs while Link is still weak compared to his end game self. You do understand basic physics, yes? No matter how strong you are, you need to be anchored to move something heavier than you.

no, I am not. I'm using a cutscene. Link can swing his sword 585 degrees in 0.1 of a second. In cutscenes Link is consistently quick and agile, to an extent Kain has never shown.
Time isn't important to someone who can master a weapon like a bow in a few minutes to a level Kain cannot dream of. See the screenshots I posted earlier. Link spends what could be months mastering the sword under the guidance of the Hero's Shade who'd already beaten Ganon in another time, and school'd Link early in the game with ease, when Link had already demonstrated skill atleast to Kain's equal.

Okay: You've repeated yourself here a million times, now [b]provide proof. No proof? This means you are wrong. Kain's best strength feat is overpowering Raziel, which at best puts him at 200 000 joules next to Link's 4 000 000 000.

So, please, prove your claim. Kain cannot dream of being fater or stronger than Link. I have feats to prove that, you do not. Until you provide proof, I accept your concession.
Kain isn't 200 tons of living rock, Link won't need anchoring to easily overpower him. 🙂
Nope.

Link was /all/ of the stopping power, Midna only lifted. Link also beat Ganon in a sword lock later, proving his strength further, stop ignoring this.

Kain is slower than Ganondorf by a wide margin. Where Kain's fastest displayed attack is in 0.3, inside human reaction time, Ganon can parry Link's much faster attacks.
You know all those monsters that occupy all the temples and dungeons? Those monsters. Midna only helped him actually fight Ganon, and failed miserably in that regard, appearign to have died until the end. Ganondorf is beyond any of the enemies Kain faces, as well. The triforce of power gives him some insane powers, Kain could never hope to beat Ganondorf.

You mean the Elder God who Link would have slaughtered in seconds? The EG is not very powerful, and Kain has nothing to say he's more powerful than Link. Until you provide proof:

I accept your concession. [/B]

I am not saying it isn't powerful but it's the perfect bane to eradicate the evil that threatens hyrule here. That's it.

The soulreaver is the legendary blade that makes it's wielder invincible not that it was created for a certain threat it's just a badass weapon. It's also the only weapon capable of defeating the elder god mind you when combined towards the end since you seem so insistent on pointing out you need the master sword to defeat Ganondorf. Here in this thread both blades can defeat the other so you acting as if the plot devices in these threads mean anything here is ridiculous. If we left the plot devices intact it would favor Kain since you can't kill him with the soul reaver anyways.

He did fight giant knights in human armor in this game. It doesn't matter what another Link did in another game that only applies to the other Link who is a different character.

The point is he needs the skill to best darknuts and just couldn't beat him without it proving he needs skill+experience+the master sword blade.

The soldiers of this game were cowards especially seeing an entire pack of them refuse to give Telma and Ilia the escort they needed. They didn't prove themselves in any manner and if anything showed us how cowardly they actually were.

Ok, let's not talk about the master sword freezing time as it occurs in another game and that option is out. I don't have Moebius here dipping through the timestream to beat these foes either. Both swords need to best you in combat just like in both games.

You just say no limits which the soul reaver basically didn't have in the game and then go on to say the master sword is more powerful despite the lack of proof. The master sword is evil's bane while the soulreaver is the ultimate blade of it's own land as well and both blades need to best the other. It won't come down to who's blade is badder it will come down to who wields the blade more effectively.

1.We don't know if he reformed as the horserider since we already saw him

a)hurt by arrows
b)hurt by wolf bites after being overpowered by Midna
c)defeated already by Link and Midna

2.He still gets hurt by Link sword strikes so the armor wasn't all that impressive and didn't block any sword strikes on it's own ganondorf's swordplay had to do that.

3.Who cares what you say when we have seen arrows and two swords completely pierce it. He resisted the effects due to the triforce the damage didn't bounce off of him.

4. This completely backs me up and nowhere in the game did he ever repel swordstrikes in the manner you described. Keep it to this game as well don't tell me about any other game.

5.No, Link isn't. Link replicated the mayor's feat due to impressive sumo training and the fact he had iron boots proving he and the mayor only achieved these feats because of the tactics employed.

Of course he is angry he keeps getting beaten no matter the form he assumes.

I am replying to your video of nailing that far away obstacle you can barely see up on death mountain. This is due to the skill of the player. You still have to aim and achieve it and can fail in the game so it's just an example of a lucky hit from a skilled player.

I do understand the fact the Mayor did what he taught Link prior to Link doing so. The boots were required to keep himself weighted down to achieve it and without the boots Link gets tossed proving he can't access his sumo skills with an anchor weighing him down.

You are using a gameplay mechanic and applying the time it takes to try to get some kind of advantage for Link here when there is none. He can't just slaughter his enemies anywhere near as easily as Kain can go through his. He needed skill and training to past past armor while Kain just carves up his enemies no matter the armor. Kain doesn't need to learn skill to get past human opponents who are carefully armored. He has the speed and power to damage them regardless and when you throw in the soulreaver they get slaughtered.

Kain doesn't have to be as it would hurt his mobility to weigh that much. Kain also won't engage him in a sumo type fashion or roll down the hill like a ball. Link only overpowered them due to his boots and the manner they attacked him in a ball. he wasn't overpowering any other characters throughout the game and always needed the iron boots for a lot of activities where strength and power were required throughout the game.

You posted screen shots of a skilled game player not canon evidence that always happens in the game. Sorry we throw it out the window. In games like gow we see real skill because he cannpt miss practically while with Link you have to aim to fire it off showing it depends on the gameplayers skill.

To throw Raziel the distance he has and with as little effort as he showed I'd say this proves Kain is a lot stronger than Link who has no strength feats outside needing iron boots and sumo training to do what another weak human already did with the same tactics.

No, in the game you need to position Link as the wolf and Midna does all the overpowering. If you run into ganondorf without using Midna you get ran over every time. You are actually trying to twist the obvious here since I played the game and know you need to press a to push him down it has nothing to do with Link overpowering him it has everything to do with proper positioning of Link so Midna can do so.

You are using gameplay mechanics again with no real proof behind it. If we use gameplay mechanics Kain dominates him.

Midna helped him various times through gameplay and yeah actually aided him in battle against the dark beast himself. The point is Link ha dan entire crew and one side completely opposed to ganondorf while Kain had to deal with raziel's continuing mood changes, the hylden opposing him, the sarafan opposing him, the elder god opposing him, and everyone else. It wasn't two convenient sides opposing each other it was various enemies plotting to defeat each other.

How is the ig not powerful? I mean come on Link's facing giant monkeys with boomerangs and tarantulas. Most of his enemies weren't impressive at all. The eg was far more impressive through what he did in the game than some random boss you happened to stumble upon in some locked up room in some dungeon.

Originally posted by The Scenario
YouTube video

Link lifting a 200+ ton Dangoro and tossing him around. The Iron Boots are there to allow Link to stop the roll, since Dangoro is much heavier than Link. But if you look closely, it is quite clearly seen that Link lifts him off the ground in order to toss him, something the Iron Boots would help with. Against someone who wieghs the same as Link, like Kain, the Iron Boots aren't necessary.

YouTube video

Now look at how Link stops Ganon here. Again, Midna just allows Link to stop the charge. Ganon is pressing down on Midna, and she's using Link for support. See how Ganon moves forward and Link sets his paws and stops him? Midna had nothing to with tha. Even in Wolf form, Link is extremely strong.

YouTube video

Hey, Scream, look what I found. Check out 0:24 and tell me what you see.

Link and Kain won't be wrestling around anyways it will all depend on swordplay.

Originally posted by Burning thought

Thats not the same thing, thats like Kain turning to mist when wounded and reforming. Also Ganons spirit will be destroyed, half of the LoK cast take/destroy the soul, and the EG can spin him in the wheel of fate and rebirth him as someone else.

Ganondorf can take souls, too. None of the others have blown up a castle, so good luck to them.

Ganondorf invulerability is not truth at all, Ganondorf just happens to be damaged more by the Master sword. Light arrows, biggorons sword and megaton hammer are all effective against him in OoT. Their completly different as EG actually is a unphysical being who is neither harmed by the material/spiritual world.

Elder God's invulnerability is not truth at all, Elder God just happens to be more damaged by the Soul Reaver. Why don't you show us him not being harmed by another weapon? Further, those weapons weren't confirmed to have been used against Ganondorf in canon and you know it. Stop using gameplay.

No you dont, thats what I always do unless its been shown before. You usually show something ambigious and give your opinion.

I have very rarely seen you post evidence to back up your claims, whereas I have posted videos and cutscenes almost every time.

bullshit, Kains taken the PSi at the end of Raziels claws without a scratch. Ganondorf based on real feats would be gutted and clawed open by the same attack.

Based on real feats that won't scratch Ganondorf, either.

Gorons are only slightly lighter than Links weight+Iron boots.

Which is what lts Link stop them. Picking them up is all him, however.

The iron boots are required for all of these feats taking away the impressive part and giving him the weight he needs to pull the feat off.

No, it doesn't. Kain could not replicate these feats because he would be too light too stop their weight. Did you not read what I said? Link picking up the goron had nothing do with the Iron Boots. They only allowed him to stop the charge.

Link and Kain won't be wrestling around anyways it will all depend on swordplay.

Where Link's superior strength will give him an edge. Or he'll just shoot him with a bomb arrow.

Also,

YouTube video

1:50 is about how well elite humans do in Zelda games.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I agree the soulreaver is the more impressive of the blades in the end but to me it has always come down to who wins the swordfight as opposed to whose sword is more impressive.

In each game the wielder always had to win swordfights.

In this thread he can just like Ganondorf is susceptible to sword attacks.

It's obvious he needed an entire army otherwise he'd get overwhelmed. Kain is a legendary character but not one who can solo armies on the battlefield nor has he shown the ability to do so.

To mist in and out against any opponent would make it that much more difficult to hurt him but since he didn't do it he likely won't as that's using the powerset argument. He does it when he has to here and there but isn't constantly changing back and forth using his powers in the manner you are describing.

We can't use pis here it's a convenient way to cbr Kain up and forget how he normally handles himself here.

We know how he was ko'd it's obvious when he was tk'd after his heart was ripped out it laid him out for a little while.

Ganondorf just survived having a sword lodged in him and was successfully bfr'd when he stood against multiple enemies here. I know Ganondorf was defeated but to face off against various mages and to take one out after being captured and at their mercy is still impressive.

We can't say either character can solo armies because they really haven't shown the ability to and each nemesis throughout the games has been more than enough to occupy them so acting like they can take on this with hundreds of troops attacking this is simply rubbish.

Not sure about that, if youve played Blood omen 1 you know that on strike the blade emits a blast of energy, in Defiance the sword can emit lightning and mirrors the damage it deals to one enemy to all those surrounding it so Kain may not even have to hit his opponent per say, only hit nearby for the lightning/mirror effect to work.

Ganondorf is always susceptable, based on feats the only thing he can resist is impalement. He can still be cut and pierced like a human being.

Even in Blood omen 2 Kain is more than a match for a few Sarafan, considering just a few could attack him at a time. How do you think he got through the whole battleline to get to the Sarafan lord? he bypassed a trail through his soldiers.

No thats using the "kain is an intelligent character therefore he would use one of his powers", your claiming anything outside of the exact games spell use as a "power set" argument when your using a gameplay mechanics one. Hes had no reason to do so.

We dont know how long.

Its not impressive because their not mages on the level of Legacy of Kain or even most fictions, their pathetic entities that tremble in fear even when given a good few minutes to act or even attempt an escape. They were useless. He may survive a normal non soul reaver weapon impaled through him but any real swordsman would not stop there.

They usually face one Nemesis at a time anyway, armies would arguably be easier in this case as their just lesser entities.

Originally posted by The Scenario
YouTube video

Link lifting a 200+ ton Dangoro and tossing him around. The Iron Boots are there to allow Link to stop the roll, since Dangoro is much heavier than Link. But if you look closely, it is quite clearly seen that Link lifts him off the ground in order to toss him, something the Iron Boots would help with. Against someone who wieghs the same as Link, like Kain, the Iron Boots aren't necessary.

YouTube video

Now look at how Link stops Ganon here. Again, Midna just allows Link to stop the charge. Ganon is pressing down on Midna, and she's using Link for support. See how Ganon moves forward and Link sets his paws and stops him? Midna had nothing to with tha. Even in Wolf form, Link is extremely strong.

YouTube video

Hey, Scream, look what I found. Check out 0:24 and tell me what you see.

Therefore, Dangaroo is<Links weight+some iron on his feet. That cant be that heavy since Link is not a stocky fellow, his strength based on that is couple times his own body weight.

midna is still a huge percentage of that attack.

Originally posted by The Scenario
Ganondorf can take souls, too. None of the others have blown up a castle, so good luck to them.

Elder God's invulnerability is not truth at all, Elder God just happens to be more damaged by the Soul Reaver. Why don't you show us him not being harmed by another weapon? Further, those weapons weren't confirmed to have been used against Ganondorf in canon and you know it. Stop using gameplay.

I have very rarely seen you post evidence to back up your claims, whereas I have posted videos and cutscenes almost every time.

Based on real feats that won't scratch Ganondorf, either.

Which is what lts Link stop them. Picking them up is all him, however.

No, it doesn't. Kain could not replicate these feats because he would be too light too stop their weight. Did you not read what I said? Link picking up the goron had nothing do with the Iron Boots. They only allowed him to stop the charge.

Where Link's superior strength will give him an edge. Or he'll just shoot him with a bomb arrow.

Also,

YouTube video

1:50 is about how well elite humans do in Zelda games.

Its not clear who has blown up a castle, not that its that impressive still. When has Ganon taken souls?

Its canon that Link used weapons other than the master sword, therefore its irrelevant. Elder God is untouchable in the material realm and Raziel cannot reave his soul with the wraith blade.

Theres no real feat from Dorf to suggest this...

Which is not impressive, humans can lift things over their bodyweight.

Kain would stop the Gorons with strength alone, he would not need an Anchor.

Originally posted by The Scenario
Ganondorf can take souls, too. None of the others have blown up a castle, so good luck to them.

Elder God's invulnerability is not truth at all, Elder God just happens to be more damaged by the Soul Reaver. Why don't you show us him not being harmed by another weapon? Further, those weapons weren't confirmed to have been used against Ganondorf in canon and you know it. Stop using gameplay.

I have very rarely seen you post evidence to back up your claims, whereas I have posted videos and cutscenes almost every time.

Based on real feats that won't scratch Ganondorf, either.

Which is what lts Link stop them. Picking them up is all him, however.

No, it doesn't. Kain could not replicate these feats because he would be too light too stop their weight. Did you not read what I said? Link picking up the goron had nothing do with the Iron Boots. They only allowed him to stop the charge.

Where Link's superior strength will give him an edge. Or he'll just shoot him with a bomb arrow.

Also,

YouTube video

1:50 is about how well elite humans do in Zelda games.

He can turn into mist if you want to go the bomb arrow route. That's also not going to get the job done anyways.

Yes, I saw Zant take out hyrule's best just like I saw Zant crush Link early on after he restored the last of the light spirits.

The thing is Link needed further training and the master sword to be able to best Zant and nothing more. Like I've always said he is who he is because of the skills taught to him and because of destiny. He's not some physical freak who sets himself above everyone else in his world.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Not sure about that, if youve played Blood omen 1 you know that on strike the blade emits a blast of energy, in Defiance the sword can emit lightning and mirrors the damage it deals to one enemy to all those surrounding it so Kain may not even have to hit his opponent per say, only hit nearby for the lightning/mirror effect to work.

Ganondorf is always susceptable, based on feats the only thing he can resist is impalement. He can still be cut and pierced like a human being.

Even in Blood omen 2 Kain is more than a match for a few Sarafan, considering just a few could attack him at a time. How do you think he got through the whole battleline to get to the Sarafan lord? he bypassed a trail through his soldiers.

No thats using the "kain is an intelligent character therefore he would use one of his powers", your claiming anything outside of the exact games spell use as a "power set" argument when your using a gameplay mechanics one. Hes had no reason to do so.

We dont know how long.

Its not impressive because their not mages on the level of Legacy of Kain or even most fictions, their pathetic entities that tremble in fear even when given a good few minutes to act or even attempt an escape. They were useless. He may survive a normal non soul reaver weapon impaled through him but any real swordsman would not stop there.

They usually face one Nemesis at a time anyway, armies would arguably be easier in this case as their just lesser entities.

Therefore, Dangaroo is<Links weight+some iron on his feet. That cant be that heavy since Link is not a stocky fellow, his strength based on that is couple times his own body weight.

midna is still a huge percentage of that attack.

Its not clear who has blown up a castle, not that its that impressive still. When has Ganon taken souls?

Its canon that Link used weapons other than the master sword, therefore its irrelevant. Elder God is untouchable in the material realm and Raziel cannot reave his soul with the wraith blade.

Theres no real feat from Dorf to suggest this...

Which is not impressive, humans can lift things over their bodyweight.

Kain would stop the Gorons with strength alone, he would not need an Anchor.

In blood omen 2 it can emit blasts as well in the sarafan lord's hand and it can do a blast like what he was doing against Raziel in the avernus cathedral.

Both characters are susceptible. The thing both sides won't agree on is the most obvious while Ganondorf can be impaled Kain can have his heart ripped out so this fight is determined by which outcome is more likely. I favor Kain after a brutal swordfight.

Same with Link or any other protagonist. They all work their way through incredible odds and mow down enemy after enemry but rarely do we ever see a character wreck an entire army outside some magical effect. Sure Kain smacks around the sarafan troops but he isn't defeating an entire army on one gigantic battlefield.

He can use tk and I never said he wouldn't. I don't think it wins him the battle alone though even if it does work as it isn't that easy on any of these guys. I don't see Kain fighting in the manner you describe because you are jumping inside the character and telling me what you'd do based on game mechanics and his abilities.

You are right we don't know how long he was out but we do know he was out and he was susceptible just like ganondorf.

Seeing what they saw they had reason to worry as he just accessed the power triforce and laughed off an impalement so who wouldn't be shocked in the same situation,. They quickly recovered and defeated him through a plot device bfr so I really don't see how this is a bad showing for Ganondorf considering how many mages he faced off against.

Sheer numbers though would overwhelm any character eventually. That's the point and when you throw in bosses along with sheer grunts it's more than most video game characters can overcome.

Dangroo in a ball is 3.5mD and supposedly weights 200+ tons.
A rock IRL thats 1.8mD weighs 10 tons. :/

Turned that to V, x density and weight came to 63 tons.
To make sure it was accurate I did the same to the rock and it came out to 10 tons (what its weight actually is) [link is broken so search ''razorapple rock'' in google images]

And if he was OoTGG strength naturally he wouldn't need Iron Boots as his arms and whole body/legs would be strong enough to stop Gorons/Dangroo.

And if LoK has an army of vampires, it really gives them the advantage.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Dangroo in a ball is 3.5mD and supposedly weights 200+ tons.
A rock IRL thats 1.8mD weighs 10 tons. :/

Turned that to V, x density and weight came to 63 tons.
To make sure it was accurate I did the same to the rock and it came out to 10 tons (what its weight actually is) [link is broken so search ''razorapple rock'' in google images]

And if he was OoTGG strength naturally he wouldn't need Iron Boots as his arms and whole body/legs would be strong enough to stop Gorons/Dangroo.

And if LoK has an army of vampires, it really gives them the advantage.

They have hylden demons, sarafan, vampire hunters, etc.

I take it the Hylden's are above humans in terms of power? That army plus those Sarafan, yeah LoK takes numbers. To even it out LoZ has a higher number of strong/boss class members on their side.

Originally posted by BloodRain
I take it the Hylden's are above humans in terms of power? That army plus those Sarafan, yeah LoK takes numbers. To even it out LoZ has a higher number of strong/boss class members on their side.

The demons are well above the humans in terms of power and the major players outside the army go as following according to memory.

Kain, Raziel, Turel, Janos Audron, Mortanius, Moebis, the elder god, and Vorador.

Originally posted by quanchi112
You figure they have all the sub bosses and bosses of each dungeon on top of hyrules' army, Zant's army, all the sages, Link, Midna, and Ganondorf.

The demons are well above the humans in terms of power and the major players outside the army go as following according to memory.

Kain, Raziel, Turel, Janos Audron, Mortanius, Moebis, the elder god, and Vorador.

What about the rest of the council?

Originally posted by quanchi112
I kinda throw how he fought in part one out of the window since the game has chaged dramatically since then.

In blood omen 2 it can emit blasts as well in the sarafan lord's hand and it can do a blast like what he was doing against Raziel in the avernus cathedral.

Both characters are susceptible. The thing both sides won't agree on is the most obvious while Ganondorf can be impaled Kain can have his heart ripped out so this fight is determined by which outcome is more likely. I favor Kain after a brutal swordfight.

Same with Link or any other protagonist. They all work their way through incredible odds and mow down enemy after enemry but rarely do we ever see a character wreck an entire army outside some magical effect. Sure Kain smacks around the sarafan troops but he isn't defeating an entire army on one gigantic battlefield.

He can use tk and I never said he wouldn't. I don't think it wins him the battle alone though even if it does work as it isn't that easy on any of these guys. I don't see Kain fighting in the manner you describe because you are jumping inside the character and telling me what you'd do based on game mechanics and his abilities.

You are right we don't know how long he was out but we do know he was out and he was susceptible just like ganondorf.

Seeing what they saw they had reason to worry as he just accessed the power triforce and laughed off an impalement so who wouldn't be shocked in the same situation,. They quickly recovered and defeated him through a plot device bfr so I really don't see how this is a bad showing for Ganondorf considering how many mages he faced off against.

Sheer numbers though would overwhelm any character eventually. That's the point and when you throw in bosses along with sheer grunts it's more than most video game characters can overcome.

Sure the gameplay has changed dramatically but the actual characters are the same, including what they have done. You cant ignore it just because it got old can you? ofc not...but I was refering to the soul reavers powers which were evident in that game.

It emits blasts on strike, it explodes when he raises it in the air, my point being is that unlike Ganons sword and the Mastersword which are pretty much just piecies of metal, the latter enhanced some to harm evil, the Soul reaver has a vast number of capabilities.

Not quite true, Kratos, Dante sure, but link? nah. And I would argue that it would be easier for Kain to kill an army of weaker opponents (especially those of flesh and spirit) than it would be to defeat a single powerful opponent. If youve played Defiance you know that almost all of Kains reaver attacks expel AOE's around him as he finishes the last combo.

I am not "jumping inside the character", I am simply pointing out that Kain has vastly more tactical skill than I would and even I can see how using the powers i listed would make him nigh unstoppable on this field.

But he did not face off against them is my point, after the initial sword Tk they did nothing, if they all teleported around, blasted him with magic and such then perhaps it would be impressive.

Not one who can transform into mist, regenerate at quick speeds (faster while drinking blood) and teleport. Remember Kain can even transform into bats to relocate the battlefield or turn into a werewolf if he wants.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Dangroo in a ball is 3.5mD and supposedly weights 200+ tons.
A rock IRL thats 1.8mD weighs 10 tons. :/

Turned that to V, x density and weight came to 63 tons.
To make sure it was accurate I did the same to the rock and it came out to 10 tons (what its weight actually is) [link is broken so search ''razorapple rock'' in google images]

And if he was OoTGG strength naturally he wouldn't need Iron Boots as his arms and whole body/legs would be strong enough to stop Gorons/Dangroo.

And if LoK has an army of vampires, it really gives them the advantage.

I doubt even 10 tons, Links bodyweight could ont have taken it even with the boots on. Same with the other guy who gave Link the boots, they both overpowered Goron weight/strength and the only trick was strapping iron to your feet. Also I dont think I have seen any source that actually says their made of solid rock and are solid themselves.

Normal Gorons would be about that rock or less. They're not 100% solid, makes little to no sense. Throwing 60 is about right when you look back at base OoTLink being in the 50 ton area.

Zzz...

Was there a point in that? 😐

Originally posted by BloodRain
Normal Gorons would be about that rock or less. They're not 100% solid, makes little to no sense. Throwing 60 is about right when you look back at base OoTLink being in the 50 ton area.

But even with the anchor of iron boots, iron could not take even 60 tons of pressure, not thin iron like iron shoes. Also what was the 50 ton feat?

The boots make it so the person can expend all of their energy into the upper-body instead of upper and lower, boots taking away most of the effort needed. Well, imo. That was from Link pushing a 100 ton block, 50 is a lift guess so the 60 toss could most likely be his set base strength.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Was there a point in that? 😐

Yes, it means that this thread is boring the hell out of me with arguments that were solved a long time ago.

You could always check this out in the meantime, see what you find there. If more then one person has an idea on something and have good reasons for why then its fair game for it to get discussed. Unless its a Tyranitar vs Nidoking thread ^^