LOK3 Defiance vs. Twilight Princess

Started by ScreamPaste85 pages

Originally posted by Sin_Volvagia
You got no proof that Link can reflect lightning especially with its speed. All you have to base your arguments is complete bullshit. The cutscene showing Ganondorf blasting Link with a ball is laughably bad evidence. For one, the balls comes out of the hand at a speed that the eye can see traveling. Then, there's a cut to show Link getting blasted with Ganondorf in front of him. With that and the elf boy at a nearby distance, of course it's gonna look instant.

You can say the Master Sword can destroy electricity (as shown in LttP) but to react to it is just as nonsensical as Young Link surviving a moon explosion and the fall to Termina. But you and the lollovelinkclub can continue make these fanboy feats. They're pretty funny 😆

Go argue with Nintendo.

Step 1. Ganon shoots lightning bolts.
Step 2. Link reflects them with his sword.

Not nearly as complicated as you seem to think. And I do have the evidence. :]

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Go argue with Nintendo.

Step 1. Ganon shoots lightning bolts.
Step 2. Link reflects them with his sword.

Not nearly as complicated as you seem to think. And I do have the evidence. :]

I think you mean lightning balls 😖mart:

Evidence? 😆 Now that's funny. I don't have to argue with Nintendo especially when I got another vid to prove you wrong.

YouTube video

Ganon shoots lightning at 2:12. I don't see any Link reflecting that. Before you try countering that, look at 6:20. The Links can reflect energy balls. You see? Link can't counter lightning with his sword. He can only destroy it when it's not fired at him.

You'll note they have the foursword, not the master sword, and aren't required, again, to reflect it.

Actually, you just strengthened my argument more, we have yet ANOTHER instance of Ganon shooting lightning. 🙂 Also, the spheres in gameplay that need to be reflected move slower, yes.. So they can be reflected. 😐 Obvious gameplay mechanic, which I've been highlighting for several pages, is obvious.

so, thank you for proving Ganon can shoot lightning, I've proved Link can reflect it. 🙂

Nearing the end of oot and when I beat it sometime this week I will return so don't think for a moment I am done responding in this thread, especially to you scenario.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Yeah, Zeus uses those bolts of his and they pretty much are lightning. It's just shown as the 'Z shape' as that is how Zeus' bolts were represented in the Myths. Like I've said before, he's pretty much the master of Lightning, and he can even slow down or quicken its speed.
He isn't like Cole who is simply a human that uses electricity.
Poseidon doesn't even swing his arms forward at the speed Zeus usually does, but he can still cause lightning that actually looks like real-world lightning.

I believe I can swing my arm a lot faster than I can move my body forward. Pretty sure that should be the case for Link.

When you were talking about 120 km/s, I thought you were referring to their movement speed.


If he can do anything with lightning then the speed of the mentioned attack compared to other attacks would be counted as it is, unless there was a reason to why it can't be at slower speeds. Cole does show a mastery of lightning to a point of moulding electricity into the bolts/orbs categories that's relevant for this point.

About 1.5-2x faster then you can move your body(-ish) not for an unsupported claim that Link can move several thousands of times his shown movement, body or strike, speed. Not when he's shown a few times to have human level reactions, and I doubt that Zant jumping at him was faster then lightning or Links reactions and speed improved a hundredfold from then to the final fight..

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Fanboy ranting. Make a point next time.

You know what else has happened canonically? Gorons walking in lava. And as I've said for at least the fourth time now, your own logic forbids new events from overriding those of the past.

Therefore, Dangoro being harmed is irrelevant.

Size does not equal strength in fiction. Your own wanking of Kain is proof enough of that. As are the characters of Kratos, Link, and Dante.

Link is easily capable of lifting these blocks. And you are incorrect. The act of lifting and holding 200 pounds over your head means that your body can withstand the force of 200 pounds pressing down on your body. Basic logic is basic. And I'll admit you have me lost as to why you threw weight into there. I don't believe I've ever argued that being fat makes someone stronger.

Take another look. You said anything can use toonforce, yet seek to support it by claiming that LoZ has cartoony graphics. If what you previously said is true, then graphics are irrelevant. This is pathetic, your own claims work against you.

So they have to do something cartoonlike? Well, Tom the cat in Tom and Jerry cartoons has been easily capable of moving things much larger than him, like, say, a refrigerator. A toon did it, so it must be cartoonlike, right? Well, Kain and Raziel happen to move stone blocks larger than them. This act bears a striking resemblance to Tom moving a fridge! GASP! KAIN USES TOONFORCE!

The rest of it is a pissed off fanboy ranting at someone more intelligent.

Oh, so past events can be overridden on criteria that you set? Enlighten me, oh great one, what is this criteria?

In the mean time, you have just accepted that Link wielding the Ball and Chain is merely an animation discrepancy.

I can't wait to see how you try to scramble out of this one.

I'll have to leave that up to Scenario. And nah, I think I'll agree with the language the game was originally written in and pass Iron off as a a translation change.

Ah, but Ganondorf is not fallible either, as he researched the myths of the Triforce and sought it because he understood what it is capable of. We don't even know where Bo got these boots, all we know is he used them. Last I checked, Bo isn't a smith either, he's the town's mayor. How does he know which metal is which based on color?

And you say I use theory. Lol.

Ah, but it is, I followed your logic. See, the creators wrote the dialog for these characters. Yet you want to say Ganon is fallible, which is you assuming the developers made him lie. And if they made him lie, nothing in the game can be trusted as everything in the game is fallible.

I recommend we do what we're meant to based on common sense and assume that he did not lie unless he later says so. Otherwise, nothing is held to be true, in any game, ever.

Not trusting the developers is that logic on an even dumber level, which I would not be surprised to see you argue at one point.

Oh but he does, Zant's teleportation trumps Kain's, especially since he's already attacking when he isn't even totally finished with the technique.

Nah, while Kain wastes his time trying to mind control Ganondorf he gets stabbed by Link, who by the way does react to the teleporter as he's fought someone better at it. You know, Zant.

This is nothing more than a pissed off fanboy ignoring things now. Come up with a point that isn't filled with dumb.

See my response to the above paragraph.

As for Dangoro bouncing, he needed to do it. When he breaks the chains, I believe that platform drops quite a ways, and when Link defeats him he raises it by somehow having the room filled with more lava. Without Dangoro, Link is stuck.

Also Sin, Spark is a physical move. It's basically a weaker version of Volt Tackle.

Then either Dangoro is the exception and has no resistance OR the Gorons as a race were retconned.

It equels weight however which is important when handling things that weigh many tonnes, especially hundreds.

If he can take 200 pounds then fair enough, human beings can as well. But not tonnes, weight is important, youve lost the point tbh.

I did not say only things with cartoon graphics can be toonforce. There is no inconsistency at all.

Raziel moves them in a manner that does not change physical properties. For example, Raziel has to use his strength, not bodyweight to move the blocks hence why he uses his arms to push, and has to crouch to use his strength to flip blocks.

😆 someone more intelligent? mr "zomg iron is heavier than iron because my fanon has to be true!!" is more intelligent...tell me another joke? it would make your posts more than just daft ignorance and at least humorous.

Well, lets see. A new game such as TP can technically retcon an older game like OoT, ofc its arguable whether Dangoro alone being weak to lava is enough to say an entire race was retconned, its more likely that Dangoro simply does not have resistance. According to what did I accept this animation discrepancy? not that the Ball and chain thing was my argument, I think thats more Quanchis, mine is based on stone hard facts such as Iron, toonforce and the illogical non physical feats that TP displays and LoZ in general.

Prove that simply researching myths can give you undeniable knowledge on what the triforce is capable of? I am not a smith either.....I can identify iron from steel from copper.

And Bo is a man, he would not be able to lift them if they were more than a hundred or two pounds each.

No, this is your own ignorence speaking again. Characters in a game do not have to be written themselves as undeniable fact. A developer can write a character as a lier if they so wish, or as ignorant.

No, I suggest we use basic logic based on his limited knowledge on a complicated item that does not have evidence of what its total power and ability is based on appearance unlike Iron which can be identified on physical properties unlike a magical artifact. I cant belive I have to actually run this through with someone, its pretty simple logic that you cannot seem to grasp.

So does Kain, Zants is inferior and Link cannot even react to it as proven previously by both me and Bloodrain, he gets his neck snapped and Ganon gets mind controlled and becomes Kains puppet. 😆 your bringing up BS out of thin air, hows link going to travel to Kain whos mind controlling Ganondorf nigh instantly without getting ripped apart by something else on the LoK side, or buried. Links dead from a teleporter, Ganondorf is on the LoK side now.....

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Zeus never throws orbs. He throws bolts, which are his main method of attack. Apart from the final attack of his against Kratos in their battle on the Summit of Sacrifice, he typically does not use streams of lightning.

And yet when he actually uses the stream, its fast. Unlike his slower orbs/bolts. Depends what your calling an orb, as those he throws at Sparta are certainly not like normal lightning.
But all this assumption based nonsense backed by "it looks like lightning therefore its automatically maximum speed", me, Bloodrain and I think Sin have shown examples of fictions also using lightning slower than the natural version. Stop reaching.

The loZ stack one huge fanboy assumption and reach on top of another, Iron boots being heavy, not being iron or are somehow enchanted without evidence. All lightning in games are apprently as fast as natural lightning for the sake of Link not being a slug....I loled.

Originally posted by The Scenario

You did almost as poor a job at argueing as Moocow. I am not going to reply the same to each post because I have tackled the points against Moo but you said a few new things so first:

-Prove their officially called heavy boots.
-Prove Bo's strength, as a human he would not lift more than a few hundred pounds and even thats a long shot.
-Nothing has proven Iron boots as heavier than iron, and Dangoros bouncing on the lava sort of collapses the idea that LoZ is physically viable anyway.
-Then Dangoro is unique and weak to lava, its quite simple.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Go argue with Nintendo.

You are, you also hate their games because you re-write your own fanon over the top of their own canon and call it fact.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Then either Dangoro is the exception and has no resistance OR the Gorons as a race were retconned.

Retcons don't happen in LoZ ever, remember? That's why Ganon can be killed by Silver Arrows. Remember?

You know, it's funny. These "points" that you make tend to work against each other a lot. It's almost like you just pick and choose what you say according to the discussion at hand!

Originally posted by Burning thought
It equels weight however which is important when handling things that weigh many tonnes, especially hundreds.

I don't even know what this is replying too. Maybe I'll give it a second thought later.

Originally posted by Burning thought
If he can take 200 pounds then fair enough, human beings can as well. But not tonnes, weight is important, youve lost the point tbh.

Lol? I'm not even sure what point you think I've lost. I have never argued that being fat makes someone strong.

But what I think you're saying is he needed to be heavy to lift things over his head. But he doesn't. Weight is only important when taking force at a horizontal direction. And that's only for heavy things, for something small like Kain it'd be easy to stop.

Originally posted by Burning thought
I did not say only things with cartoon graphics can be toonforce. There is no inconsistency at all.

I didn't say you said that. What I did was point out how you tried to support your claim that LoZ is cartoony by using graphics. When you don't have to be a toon to use toonforce, graphics are irrelevant.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Raziel moves them in a manner that does not change physical properties. For example, Raziel has to use his strength, not bodyweight to move the blocks hence why he uses his arms to push, and has to crouch to use his strength to flip blocks.

Tom never did it either. There are plenty of cartoons where he'll just pick up the fridge or the couch or something else in the house and just run with it like it's a feather. A toon has done it, so it must be toonlike.

Unless-- you're gonna have to work hard and follow me for this-- Tom isn't a toon! I mean, graphics don't make a toon, right? Apparently, graphics don't matter when deciding what is a toon, and to be a toon you have to do something toon like. Toon like is something like lifting huge objects when you shouldn't have that ability, if I recall correctly.

But wait a minute. This makes every character susceptible to toonforce, because none of them should have these abilities. So it seems that despite Tom not being a toon, he still uses toonforce. Kain would fall under the category of toon as well.

Originally posted by Burning thought
😆 someone more intelligent? mr "zomg iron is heavier than iron because my fanon has to be true!!" is more intelligent...tell me another joke? it would make your posts more than just daft ignorance and at least humorous.

You rant better than you argue.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Well, lets see. A new game such as TP can technically retcon an older game like OoT, ofc its arguable whether Dangoro alone being weak to lava is enough to say an entire race was retconned, its more likely that Dangoro simply does not have resistance. According to what did I accept this animation discrepancy? not that the Ball and chain thing was my argument, I think thats more Quanchis, mine is based on stone hard facts such as Iron, toonforce and the illogical non physical feats that TP displays and LoZ in general.

You know I was joking, right? You don't get to decide anything, lol. Ah well, at least you have confidence in yourself as an important individual. I'll go along with it.

Oh, wait, you didn't actually give any criteria. You just said it can. You don't follow directions very well. Then you ranted more.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Prove that simply researching myths can give you undeniable knowledge on what the triforce is capable of? I am not a smith either.....I can identify iron from steel from copper.

Did you really just tell me to prove that? I need to prove that researching gives knowledge. Alright...done.

I can find differences in the metals, but I don't know that I could tell which is which. You'll be needing to prove that Bo can tell which is which. Good luck with that considering you don't even own the game.

Originally posted by Burning thought
And Bo is a man, he would not be able to lift them if they were more than a hundred or two pounds each.

Prove Bo is a man. Dude has tusks for a mustache.

Originally posted by Burning thought
No, this is your own ignorence speaking [b]again. Characters in a game do not have to be written themselves as undeniable fact. A developer can write a character as a lier if they so wish, or as ignorant. [/B]

You know, to write a character as a liar, it has to be later established that they are in fact, a liar. Otherwise we won't ever know they are a liar, and therefore they are not. Also, for the facts they speak to be a lie, it has to be established that they are a lie. Otherwise, they are not lies. Basic logic is basic.

Originally posted by Burning thought
No, I suggest we use basic logic based on his limited knowledge on a complicated item that does not have evidence of what its total power and ability is based on appearance unlike Iron which can be identified on physical properties unlike a magical artifact. I cant belive I have to actually run this through with someone, its pretty simple logic that you cannot seem to grasp.

It was known through the history of Hyrule that the Triforce essentially brought all kinds of win to the people and that it was powerful. It grants wishes and is the power of the goddesses themselves. That is all Ganon needs to know.

I grasp logic just fine. Fact is, you are incorrect.

Originally posted by Burning thought
So does Kain, Zants is inferior and Link cannot even react to it as proven previously by both me and Bloodrain, he gets his neck snapped and Ganon gets mind controlled and becomes Kains puppet. 😆 your bringing up BS out of thin air, hows link going to travel to Kain whos mind controlling Ganondorf nigh instantly without getting ripped apart by something else on the LoK side, or buried. Links dead from a teleporter, Ganondorf is on the LoK side now.....

I've seen Kain's. He waits until he's totally finished with one teleport to attack, Zant does not. Therefore, the attack comes faster. Basic logic is basic. I can't believe I have to actually run through this with someone. It is basic logic which you do not seem to grasp.

I'll answer your question with another question, multiple, actually. Why is Kain starting a ludicrous distance away? How does Kain complete a mind control before Ganon teleports and sticks his fist through Kain's skull? Which will hit Kain first, Ganon's fist or Link's arrow?

The rest of it is more ranting from some pissed off british fanboy.

Originally posted by BloodRain
If he can do anything with lightning then the speed of the mentioned attack compared to other attacks would be counted as it is, unless there was a reason to why it can't be at slower speeds. Cole does show a mastery of lightning to a point of moulding electricity into the bolts/orbs categories that's relevant for this point.

About 1.5-2x faster then you can move your body(-ish) not for an unsupported claim that Link can move several thousands of times his shown movement, body or strike, speed. Not when he's shown a few times to have human level reactions, and I doubt that Zant jumping at him was faster then lightning or Links reactions and speed improved a hundredfold from then to the final fight..

Even if he did slow it down, give me a logical reason as to why he would slow down and tone down his attacks against someone who had the potential to kill him, and was trying to do so. If someone is trying to kill you, you don't pussify your attacks; it simply doesn't make sense. Zeus has repeatedly shown that he isn't willing to tolerate Kratos' actions either, so he is actually trying to kill Kratos as well.

The only logical explanation as to their speed in gameplay is it's simply slowed down for gameplay. You honestly cannot expect players to be able to react to actual lightning speed. This is about as ridiculous as saying Vergil cannot attack at > Mach 1 speeds simply because he doesn't reach that speed in gameplay. 😐
Except Cole isn't a master of lightning on the same calibre as Zeus, not when the existence of Lightning is due to Zeus' existence. Cole's mastery is completely insignificant in the face of that. Poseidon's mastery of lightning is greater than Cole's.
Zeus' characteristic attack is known as the Thunderbolt, which is pretty much what Lightning is in the GoW verse.

Can't argue for Link here, as I'm not knowledgeable enough. All I know is that he is capable of swinging his arms a lot faster than he is capable of moving, much like any other humanoid-based person. As to his reactions, meh.

Originally posted by Burning thought
And yet when he actually uses the stream, its fast. Unlike his slower orbs/bolts. Depends what your calling an orb, as those he throws at Sparta are certainly not like normal lightning.
But all this assumption based nonsense backed by "it looks like lightning therefore its automatically maximum speed", me, Bloodrain and I think Sin have shown examples of fictions also using lightning slower than the natural version. Stop reaching.

He only uses the stream in gameplay. Gameplay speed =/= canon speed.
The ones he throws at Sparta and Kratos are similar to one he threw at Kratos & Gaia in GoW3, save for length of build-up.
In the Greek Myths, that was how the Lightning used by Zeus was represented, as the characteristic tube-like Z shape that was not longer than a human being's height.

I can only argue for this "looks like lightning therefore its automatically maximum speed" when it comes to Zeus. I have no idea whether Ganon/Zant can throw actual lightning or not.
Yet when it comes to Zeus, who is the actual creator and master of lightning in the GoW verse, has thrown Lightning bolts over and over again, and can slow down the speed of lightning or conversely make it faster, yeah...

That's really precious, telling me to stop reaching that is. You claim Kain is a hundred tonner when he hasn't even shown strength anywhere near that level.
It doesn't stop there. You claim Kain can do a whole lot of stuff he isn't capable of or hasn't demonstrated before. 😐
Hypocrisy has always been a lolzy characteristic of yours.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Even if he did slow it down, give me a logical reason as to why he would slow down and tone down his attacks against someone who had the potential to kill him, and was trying to do so. If someone is trying to kill you, you don't pussify your attacks; it simply doesn't make sense. Zeus has repeatedly shown that he isn't willing to tolerate Kratos' actions either, so he is actually trying to kill Kratos as well.

The only logical explanation as to their speed in gameplay is it's simply slowed down for gameplay. You honestly cannot expect players to be able to react to actual lightning speed. This is about as ridiculous as saying Vergil cannot attack at > Mach 1 speeds simply because he doesn't reach that speed in gameplay. 😐
Except Cole isn't a master of lightning on the same calibre as Zeus, not when the existence of Lightning is due to Zeus' existence. Cole's mastery is completely insignificant in the face of that. Poseidon's mastery of lightning is greater than Cole's.
Zeus' characteristic attack is known as the Thunderbolt, which is pretty much what Lightning is in the GoW verse.

Can't argue for Link here, as I'm not knowledgeable enough. All I know is that he is capable of swinging his arms a lot faster than he is capable of moving, much like any other humanoid-based person. As to his reactions, meh.


If a logical reason to why he wouldn't use his fastest attack is needed then you would need to have a logical reason to why he would for instance use punches moves at normal speed when using lightning and moving at lightning speed would be the more logical choice if he was desperate for the kill.

Not really as he does attacks that are faster then the orbs like the slash-wave when he gets the BoO or lightning-disappearing movements that the player has to react to. Again, not put real lightning speed into a game, just fast speeds to represent real lightning not something that is slower then most attacks in the game :/ And the level of his mastery isn't important in the least. It's what he can do with it which is creates orbs and bolts like Zeus and the others on that list. But now we're debating GoW.

Yeah he can but not shown to that extent. Unless proven as the fastest he's ever shown is 1/2500th of what's needed to parry lightning back and forth. Anyway, he's shown his movement speed and he's shown his reactions. Both are completely against the attack being at lightning speed.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
He only uses the stream in gameplay. Gameplay speed =/= canon speed.
The ones he throws at Sparta and Kratos are similar to one he threw at Kratos & Gaia in GoW3, save for length of build-up.
In the Greek Myths, that was how the Lightning used by Zeus was represented, as the characteristic tube-like Z shape that was not longer than a human being's height.

I can only argue for this "looks like lightning therefore its automatically maximum speed" when it comes to Zeus. I have no idea whether Ganon/Zant can throw actual lightning or not.
Yet when it comes to Zeus, who is the actual creator and master of lightning in the GoW verse, has thrown Lightning bolts over and over again, and can slow down the speed of lightning or conversely make it faster, yeah...

That's really precious, telling me to stop reaching that is. You claim Kain is a hundred tonner when he hasn't even shown strength anywhere near that level.
It doesn't stop there. You claim Kain can do a whole lot of stuff he isn't capable of or hasn't demonstrated before. 😐
Hypocrisy has always been a lolzy characteristic of yours.

Disagree, the one he launched at Gaia was from the heavens. iirc in Sparta he simply created what looked like bolts/orbs in his hands and tossed them at buildings. Different.

He may be the creator and master of lightning, that does not mean we assume any he throws are at the same speed as natural lightning. in cutscenes we can see him throw slower forms of lightning, just like in any fiction that has slower forms. hes not excempt just because hes the "master" of lightning.

Ive proven hes a hundred tonner+, as if he was not he could not manhandle Raziel with ease. Name some? seems to me your simply stating this, most things I say are connected completly with the canon, I dont simply assume things are faster because of titles and because I belive its only slow in gameplay.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Retcons don't happen in LoZ ever, remember? That's why Ganon can be killed by Silver Arrows. Remember?

You know, it's funny. These "points" that you make tend to work against each other a lot. It's almost like you just pick and choose what you say according to the discussion at hand!

I don't even know what this is replying too. Maybe I'll give it a second thought later.

Lol? I'm not even sure what point you think I've lost. I have never argued that being fat makes someone strong.

But what I think you're saying is he needed to be heavy to lift things over his head. But he doesn't. Weight is only important when taking force at a horizontal direction. And that's only for heavy things, for something small like Kain it'd be easy to stop.

I didn't say you said that. What I did was point out how you tried to support your claim that LoZ is cartoony by using graphics. When you don't have to be a toon to use toonforce, graphics are irrelevant.

Tom never did it either. There are plenty of cartoons where he'll just pick up the fridge or the couch or something else in the house and just run with it like it's a feather. A toon has done it, so it must be toonlike.

Unless-- you're gonna have to work hard and follow me for this-- Tom isn't a toon! I mean, graphics don't make a toon, right? Apparently, graphics don't matter when deciding what is a toon, and to be a toon you have to do something toon like. Toon like is something like lifting huge objects when you shouldn't have that ability, if I recall correctly.

But wait a minute. This makes every character susceptible to toonforce, because none of them should have these abilities. So it seems that despite Tom not being a toon, he still uses toonforce. Kain would fall under the category of toon as well.

You rant better than you argue.

You know I was joking, right? You don't get to decide anything, lol. Ah well, at least you have confidence in yourself as an important individual. I'll go along with it.

Oh, wait, you didn't actually give any criteria. You just said it can. You don't follow directions very well. Then you ranted more.

Did you really just tell me to prove that? I need to prove that researching gives knowledge. Alright...done.

I can find differences in the metals, but I don't know that I could tell which is which. You'll be needing to prove that Bo can tell which is which. Good luck with that considering you don't even own the game.

Prove Bo is a man. Dude has tusks for a mustache.

You know, to write a character as a liar, it has to be later established that they are in fact, a liar. Otherwise we won't ever know they are a liar, and therefore they are not. Also, for the facts they speak to be a lie, it has to be established that they are a lie. Otherwise, they are not lies. Basic logic is basic.

It was known through the history of Hyrule that the Triforce essentially brought all kinds of win to the people and that it was powerful. It grants wishes and is the power of the goddesses themselves. That is all Ganon needs to know.

I grasp logic just fine. Fact is, you are incorrect.

I've seen Kain's. He waits until he's totally finished with one teleport to attack, Zant does not. Therefore, the attack comes faster. Basic logic is basic. I can't believe I have to actually run through this with someone. It is basic logic which you do not seem to grasp.

I'll answer your question with another question, multiple, actually. Why is Kain starting a ludicrous distance away? How does Kain complete a mind control before Ganon teleports and sticks his fist through Kain's skull? Which will hit Kain first, Ganon's fist or Link's arrow?

The rest of it is more ranting from some pissed off british fanboy.

Dont happen ever? lol, wut? youve not proven this....and Ganon can be killed by Silver arrows because thats whats required. Ganon at his peak that is. Retcons can happen, if Gorons in a previous game are generally immune to fire, but recent ones are not. Either their different types of Gorons or they have been retconned.

You have to be of a fair weight yourself to be able to hold a certain amount of weight above you. Its simple logic, even if your strong enough, technically your bones will still snap if your body cannot take weight, and if your weight/density is too low.

I said Zelda was cartoony from the start because of bouncing Gorons, the cartoon graphics are just a coindicdence in my favour.

No lol, in your desperate attempts at trying to argue a point youve floundered on basic principles. Kain does nothing "toonlike" yet Dangoro does, e.g. bouncing along lava. Link does something toonlike, because hes a tiny guy who lifts up a few things (Golden gauntlets may increase strength but not weight) that he should not able to based on size. Tom can, Jerry at times can, Tazmanian devil can...

I assume most of your posts are joking, nobody could be serious about some of the things you claim....

nothing has to be established, its established that Ganon is not the creator or the power behind the Triforce, and hes not the triforce itself. Therefore when it comes to an object like the Triforce whos powers are magical and internal, not external like a metal object (Iron boots) then knowing a few myths does not make him an expert or even learned.

And I have seen Zants, he has predictalbe patterns of teleporting/attack unlike Kain who appears right behind his foes while doing a slash, only to port and attack against other characters. Zants inferior teleport is still>Link.

Kain makes a gesture>Ganon teleporting/Link equiping, drawring and fireing an arrow. And why would Kain start in the LoZ side? this is a battle.

Yeh...argue and use logic moar, whine and complain and attack less? maye then you would not have poor arguments.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Dont happen ever? lol, wut? youve not proven this....and Ganon can be killed by Silver arrows because thats whats required. Ganon at his peak that is. Retcons can happen, if Gorons in a previous game are generally immune to fire, but recent ones are not. Either their different types of Gorons or they have been retconned.

Silver Arrows were retconned from the originally christian themed Zelda series. They became the light arrows.

This is you picking and choosing what you want to be true again. Did you notice that? Goron weaknesses, totally retconable. Ganon's? Nah.

Originally posted by Burning thought
You have to be of a fair weight yourself to be able to hold a certain amount of weight above you. Its simple logic, even if your strong enough, technically your bones will still snap if your body cannot take weight, and if your weight/density is too low.

Not really. Because that little thing beneath you called the Earth gives you all the weight you need. Just like how if you have the strength to stop something in motion but lack the weight, having a huge wall behind you with the weight you need will work perfectly.

And yeah, we have argued that before. It's how we get Link's durability. Yet somehow you think he's not durable. That's you picking and choosing what you want to be true, only this time the tool you use is called toonforce.

Originally posted by Burning thought
I said Zelda was cartoony from the start because of bouncing Gorons, the cartoon graphics are just a coindicdence in my favour.

Graphics are irrelevant. Good job stating the obvious though. 👆 However, Dangoro's weakness is PIS. Without Dangoro, Link would be stuck on that platform.

Originally posted by Burning thought
No lol, in your desperate attempts at trying to argue a point youve floundered on basic principles. Kain does nothing "toonlike" yet Dangoro does, e.g. bouncing along lava. Link does something toonlike, because hes a tiny guy who lifts up a few things (Golden gauntlets may increase strength but not weight) that he should not able to based on size. Tom can, Jerry at times can, Tazmanian devil can...

Moving huge objects is something toons do all the time. Kain moves big blocks of stone. Toonforce.

There's that weight thing again. Lol. You really don't get physics at all, do you?

Originally posted by Burning thought
I assume most of your posts are joking, nobody could be serious about some of the things you claim....

Hey, that doesn't look right coming from you. Oh! I know.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
I assume most of your posts are joking, nobody could be serious about some of the things you claim....

There we go, now it looks right.

Originally posted by Burning thought
nothing has to be established, its established that Ganon is not the creator or the power behind the Triforce, and hes not the triforce itself. Therefore when it comes to an object like the Triforce whos powers are magical and internal, not external like a metal object (Iron boots) then knowing a few myths does not make him an expert or even learned.

First off, 😆 at the bold.

Then apply your same stupid logic to Bo, who we do not even know has researched these boots. All we know is he used them. It's never said that he created them, or that he even knows what he's talking about. And if no character has to be established as a liar, then how can you not consider Bo fallible by your own logic? Oh yeah, the picking and choosing what you like thing.

Think about things before you say them.

Originally posted by Burning thought
And I have seen Zants, he has predictalbe patterns of teleporting/attack unlike Kain who appears right behind his foes while doing a slash, only to port and attack against other characters. Zants inferior teleport is still>Link.

Gameplay elements. We don't know where Zant teleports in canon, only that he does it, because you cannot get through that fight without seeing him do it. See, now this argument is you claiming Zant only can/chooses to teleport to certain places.

And lol. Do you actually think that Zant's teleport is > Link when Link canonically defeats him? Use your head.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Kain makes a gesture>Ganon teleporting/Link equiping, drawring and fireing an arrow. And why would Kain start in the LoZ side? this is a battle.

Gesture < teleportation. Who said he started on the LoZ side? All I'm saying is that he isn't going to be the hundred feet away he'd need to be to escape from Link.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Yeh...argue and use logic moar, whine and complain and attack less? maye then you would not have poor arguments.

You really are good at ranting. At least you have that going for you.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Silver Arrows were retconned from the originally christian themed Zelda series. They became the light arrows.

This is you picking and choosing what you want to be true again. Did you notice that? Goron weaknesses, totally retconable. Ganon's? Nah.

Not really. Because that little thing beneath you called the Earth gives you all the weight you need. Just like how if you have the strength to stop something in motion but lack the weight, having a huge wall behind you with the weight you need will work perfectly.

And yeah, we have argued that before. It's how we get Link's durability. Yet somehow you think he's not durable. That's you picking and choosing what you want to be true, only this time the tool you use is called toonforce.

Graphics are irrelevant. Good job stating the obvious though. 👆 However, Dangoro's weakness is PIS. Without Dangoro, Link would be stuck on that platform.

Moving huge objects is something toons do all the time. Kain moves big blocks of stone. Toonforce.

There's that weight thing again. Lol. You really don't get physics at all, do you?

Hey, that doesn't look right coming from you. Oh! I know.

There we go, now it looks right.

First off, 😆 at the bold.

Then apply your same stupid logic to Bo, who we do not even know has researched these boots. All we know is he used them. It's never said that he created them, or that he even knows what he's talking about. And if no character has to be established as a liar, then how can you not consider Bo fallible by your own logic? Oh yeah, the picking and choosing what you like thing.

Think about things before you say them.

Gameplay elements. We don't know where Zant teleports in canon, only that he does it, because you cannot get through that fight without seeing him do it. See, now this argument is you claiming Zant only can/chooses to teleport to certain places.

And lol. Do you actually think that Zant's teleport is > Link when Link canonically defeats him? Use your head.

Gesture < teleportation. Who said he started on the LoZ side? All I'm saying is that he isn't going to be the hundred feet away he'd need to be to escape from Link.

You really are good at ranting. At least you have that going for you.

This has never been proven, only assumed because their similiar to light arrows. Youve yet to show the evidence to support this.

What lol? the Earth does not support every entity that takes weight. hence why things get crushed and do not take the weight because the Earth apprently supports them.

Theres a large wall of reasons why this is all wrong ,starting with how fanon math is not canon.

Theres no stupity added, Dangoro was just harmed by lava and bounced like Sylvester the cat as if hed just fallen on a lighted fire.

Moving huge objects against physics is toonforce, like a cat picking up tonnes with one arm. I think its you whos reaching has made you completly blind to actual logic.

I have no reason to belive Bo is a liar considering I could come to the conclusion that something is made of iron or steel without having to have made it before. I can pick up a spoon and determine that its made of stainless steel or a penny and determine if its copper or lead just by looking at colour and weight. Iron is one of the most obvious metals, considering Bo lives and is accepted by a race of metal workers described by Scenario as "the dwarves of hyrule" I think its fair to say that calling them Iron is hardly a likely lie.

Link wins therefore he>Zants teleport? 😆 I think its you that needs to use your head, being inferior in several power sets does not mean you cannot beat a character. Unfortunaltey in this case Lok are superior in pretty much all power sets and some characters like Kain singularly support this view.

Hed need to escape from Link? Link cant do shit lol...whats Link going to do? attempt a little run or arrow launch at Kain? thats going to be useless for one and too slow for another? I lold..Ganon kills Link under Kains control who then tosses Ganon aside and mops up the LoZ canon fodder (to LoK, most of them). But as I keep saying, assuming the EG does not just bury the lot of them.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
You'll note they have the foursword, not the master sword, and aren't required, again, to reflect it.

Required? They can't reflect it because they can't react to it. Simple as that.

Also the Four Sword is almost identical to the Master Sword though it replaces time properties with making clones of the wielder and sealing evil to itself. 😖mart:


Actually, you just strengthened my argument more, we have yet ANOTHER instance of Ganon shooting lightning. 🙂

Anybody who has played a Zelda game should know that. Right BT?😖hifty:


Also, the spheres in gameplay that need to be reflected move slower, yes.. So they can be reflected. 😐 Obvious gameplay mechanic, which I've been highlighting for several pages, is obvious.

What you fail to realize is that lightning balls never move that fast in fiction; Zelda is no exception.

In the Megaman X series, Spark Shot moves slower than lightning but Triad Thunder doesn't.

In Dark Alliance, you can shoot lightning from your finger tips at the expected speed but the ball lightning is slow.

In Devil May Cry 3, Dante using Nevan's DMC can allow him to shoot lightning at lightning speed but that electrical ball bats aren't that fast..

In Pokemon Stadium/Colosseum, Thundershock, Thunderbolt, and Thunder move at lightning speeds but Spark and Zap Cannon don't.

Infamous has similar cases with streams of lightning and electrical balls.

Obviously not a gameplay mechanic.


so, thank you for proving Ganon can shoot lightning, I've proved Link can reflect it. 🙂

Actually I proved Link cannot reflect lightning at all. At least not lightning shot at lightning speed.

I dont know why this is even being argued. Theres no lightning at lightning speed shot at Link, theres no feat. Just like theres no real feat for half the LoZ nonsense the Zelda fans claim.

Originally posted by Burning thought
You did almost as poor a job at argueing as Moocow. I am not going to reply the same to each post because I have tackled the points against Moo but you said a few new things so first:

-Prove their officially called heavy boots.


You don't know how to argue, BT.

http://mynintendonews.com/2009/11/27/nintendo-eiji-aonuma-sorry-for-zelda-water-temple/


-Prove Bo's strength, as a human he would not lift more than a few hundred pounds and even thats a long shot.

I don't recall saying Bo was super strong.


-Nothing has proven Iron boots as heavier than iron, and Dangoros bouncing on the lava sort of collapses the idea that LoZ is physically viable anyway.

Except for the Temple of Time weight puzzle, right? Why do you keep forgetting about that?


-Then Dangoro is unique and weak to lava, its quite simple.

Duh.

lol, ah if only I could understand your ignorence, then I could collapse it quicker than these walls of text

You did not prove their officially called heavy boots....

So what are you saying? your not argueing that the boots are heavy then? because if Bo is not super strong, and is but a human then the boots are not too heavy for a human to wear...

How does that puzzle prove it exactly? can you show me said puzzle?

You say Duh, then recite this to your collegues of LoZ so they dont have to whine about inconsisties, retcons and fanon.

Originally posted by Burning thought
This has never been proven, only assumed because their similiar to light arrows. Youve yet to show the evidence to support this.

We haven't seen them since. Know what we have seen? Light arrows.

Originally posted by Burning thought
What lol? the Earth does not support every entity that takes weight. hence why things get crushed and do not take the weight because the Earth apprently supports them.

You crazy? You know why you wouldn't move were something heavier than you dropped on your head? The Earth has become your weight. It is the same as one force hitting another at a horizontal angle, only turned vertical. Being crushed means that you cannot support the weight, it doesn't mean you need weight.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Theres a large wall of reasons why this is all wrong ,starting with how fanon math is not canon.

You know what is canon? That the blocks are made of black granite and that a stone of it that large is heavier than Kain can lift. Also that Gorons are made of rock. And a ball of it 14 feet high is really heavy.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Theres no stupity added, Dangoro was just harmed by lava and bounced like Sylvester the cat as if hed just fallen on a lighted fire.

Nah, it's pretty stupid. That's probably why some would think it is funny.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Moving huge objects against physics is toonforce, like a cat picking up tonnes with one arm. I think its you whos reaching has made you completly blind to actual logic.

Lol, against physics. When did Link defy physics? Oh yeah, never. Kain probably would if he had any impressive feats at all.

Originally posted by Burning thought
I have no reason to belive Bo is a liar considering I could come to the conclusion that something is made of iron or steel without having to have made it before. I can pick up a spoon and determine that its made of stainless steel or a penny and determine if its copper or lead just by looking at colour and weight. Iron is one of the most obvious metals, considering Bo lives and is accepted by a race of metal workers described by Scenario as "the dwarves of hyrule" I think its fair to say that calling them Iron is hardly a likely lie.

Notice the problem here? You think you being able to do it means Bo has the ability. You need to prove that he has it. Again, good luck.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Link wins therefore he>Zants teleport? 😆 I think its you that needs to use your head, being inferior in several power sets does not mean you cannot beat a character. Unfortunaltey in this case Lok are superior in pretty much all power sets and some characters like Kain singularly support this view.

Yeah. Basic logic is basic. Because if you can't react to an attack, it kills you. If you react to it, it is rendered useless, therefore making you > said ability. Unfortunately for LoK, Zant is just plain faster.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Hed need to escape from Link? Link cant do shit lol...whats Link going to do? attempt a little run or arrow launch at Kain? thats going to be useless for one and too slow for another? I lold..Ganon kills Link under Kains control who then tosses Ganon aside and mops up the LoZ canon fodder (to LoK, most of them). But as I keep saying, assuming the EG does not just bury the lot of them.

Link will Great Spin, and with it's reach, it will kill Kain because it is too fast for him to react to. Or Ganon's faster teleport makes him easily capable of sticking a fist through Kain. It depends on where Kain starts, really.

Originally posted by Burning thought
lol, ah if only I could understand your ignorence, then I could collapse it quicker than these walls of text

If you consider that a wall of text, I can understand why you don't read my normal posts.


You did not prove their officially called heavy boots....

The creator is the highest authority. What you just did was claim Word of God unofficial.


So what are you saying? your not argueing that the boots are heavy then? because if Bo is not super strong, and is but a human then the boots are not too heavy for a human to wear...

Ah, that's what you're getting at? There was never any information on what Bo did, just that the Gorons respect him. He pushed one out of the ring when it couldn't move him, presumably, but that's just a guess, too.


How does that puzzle prove it exactly? can you show me said puzzle?

I've explained it to you before.

YouTube video

Starts at 2:40.

Each of those small statues is roughly half Link's weight. Five of them is equal to the big statue. Thus, the small statues and the big statue together are roughly five times Link's weight. It's not shown there, because it's a walkthrough, but when Link is wearing the boots, he weighs more than all of them together. Thus, the boots are over five times Link's weight.

We calculated that an amount of iron that is the size of the iron boots would be around 200 pounds, right? Well, assuming Link weighs even 140 pounds (despite his chainmail, sword, and shield), that would put the boots over 600 pounds. There aren't enough statues to equal Link's weight with the boots, so nothing in the series has yet outweighed them.

There, definitive proof that the Heavy Boots are heavier than iron.


You say Duh, then recite this to your collegues of LoZ so they dont have to whine about inconsisties, retcons and fanon.

It is an inconsistency. Dangoro is an outlier, he's the only one to do this, and all other Gorons in the game show significantly higher magma resistence.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
We haven't seen them since. Know what we have seen? Light arrows.

You crazy? You know why you wouldn't move were something heavier than you dropped on your head? The Earth has become your weight. It is the same as one force hitting another at a horizontal angle, only turned vertical. Being crushed means that you cannot support the weight, it doesn't mean you need weight.

You know what is canon? That the blocks are made of black granite and that a stone of it that large is heavier than Kain can lift. Also that Gorons are made of rock. And a ball of it 14 feet high is really heavy.

Nah, it's pretty stupid. That's probably why some would think it is funny.

Lol, against physics. When did Link defy physics? Oh yeah, never. Kain probably would if he had any impressive feats at all.

Notice the problem here? You think you being able to do it means Bo has the ability. You need to prove that he has it. Again, good luck.

Yeah. Basic logic is basic. Because if you can't react to an attack, it kills you. If you react to it, it is rendered useless, therefore making you > said ability. Unfortunately for LoK, Zant is just plain faster.

Link will Great Spin, and with it's reach, it will kill Kain because it is too fast for him to react to. Or Ganon's faster teleport makes him easily capable of sticking a fist through Kain. It depends on where Kain starts, really.

oh I see, we have not seen them so we can automatically assume they have been retconned? 🙄 and apprently ALTTP is set later in the series than OoT which was apprently the first game canonically. I think paste or Sin said that at some point.

Yes you would move, you would depending on its weight be crushed into the ground....the Earth does not "become your weight" 🙄 what are you even talking about?

Thats not canon, youve based that on a strategy guide, possibly not even written by the designers of LoZ and some other company given rights to form a guide. Its also not proven that Gorons are made of rock, your clinging to ambigious words like "rock people", theres no concrete evidence to suggest theres even a majority volume of rock in them at all.

Its stupid if you take the game seriously, obviously its not supposed to be taken as seriously as people trying to make up feats for it on fanon math what with bouncing Gorons and light boots stopping something that "should" be heavier.

I dont know, throwing something he can slowly lift with a groan of effort by hardly moving his arms. A something that should have fallen or crushed him or at least pushed him beneath the earth he is standing on..all of that not happening is pretty against physics...he would collapse under the weight even given the strength (which has been mathed based on struggling to lift it a meter off the ground). Kain does not defy physics and neither does Raziel, blocks that are vastly heavier than they are but they are strong enough to lift, they move using pushes or flips, the animations most of which allow for Raziels small amount of weight.

Unless your more durable or Zant did not canonically teleport close enough, kinda like how he does not in the gameplay. Technically we dont know how Link won canonically, we only know that he somehow dealt with Zant despite the teleportation that he cant really react to. its almost like your argueing that your apprently durable and invincible link (according to fanon) can be harmed by featless Zant.

😆 "with its reach", a meter or so? and as shown Kain reacts faster than Link who cant react to teleports. let alone react and make an action which Kain can do under 0.2 seconds. Ganons not able to "stick a fist" anywhere, kains shown the PSI to survive the slashing force of 100+ tonnes from Raziel several times without a scratch. Ganons blunt punch will at best launch Kain assuming Kain was not far faster and have higher reaction speed than Ganon...which he does...