Originally posted by Burning thought
No, I have yet to see anything impressive from those sages, certainly durabilitywise. Ive seen the actual seen so your one trying to hype.But anyway, this is my last post in here until after my holiday in which I will reply to you Scenario.
Really, because the leader of the Sages has enough power to bind Ganon temporarily. Featless, my a**.
Originally posted by The Scenario
Not sure what magic it was, is it stated to be twilight magic? because it is unique to twilight itself being in the form of a little shard and all...
I thought twilight was only there until the light was awoken, or light spirits in LoZ case.
No its completly different, its a feat of transformation because if Link touches twilight apprently he turns into a divine beast. The soul is not attacked in any way, shape or form, people are only left as souls. This is a daft conversation because vampires are more powerful as spirit, their fleshy husks are just that, flesh to allow them to interact with the world but as vampire wraiths and Dumah, the son of Kain outlines, being in the spectoral underworld gives them void power.
I knew you would bring this up but its not the same, you see your talking about some mistlike dark vapour that transforms, it does not take souls it transforms normal people into spiritual forms and more importantly soldiers into shadow beasts (unless their two different powers then forgive me but it does not change the point), the reality warping field actually transformed things, all things from plants, the sky, the earth and living creatures and Kain was immune so therefore this is a transformation feat. I can understand if you want to claim that Link has the resistance he needs to survive being transformed into a soul, thats all good and well (although I am not sure thats enough to say he immune to transformation altogether) but not soul attacks. Certainly not Nosgoth sorcery that has a completly different attack and actually aims at the soul, not the flesh.
No hes not featured physically, we dont see him your right but he is chronologically present. Therefore I can claim he is in the game, you cannot say the same just because Ganondorf was in a flashback.
I dont understand your source there, it does not look like an offical statement that can relate to fictional beings. How can anyone prove for a fact that someone capable of hundreds of tonnes of strength can control it?
Do we know this happened to Bo? afterall its Bo who is showing Link techniques about how to beat Gorons is he not? and has an artifact he knows beats them....how do you know Bo just beat them and left?
We must know unless wearing the iron boots shattered the scales, if all it did is go slightly over then their not much over 600 pounds. Personally I dont agree that a weight puzzle in-game is a factual gauge on realistic weights unlike canon text such as the weight of iron but regardless of all this, 600 pounds is still not much and 600 pounds is the best canon figuire you can prove.
55 tons for each block, Raziel moves two at a time.
They "should" cut very deep because their sharp and have thousands of tonnes of PSI on their edge, but Kain is far more durable than blocks and other things Raziel faces. If Raziels claws were larger, their PSI would be spread over more area thus making the feat slightly less impressive. When raziel slices his claws into blocks and pushes them he hardly uses any strength, as BLoodrain also said, Raziel does it easily, he does it without anger and if i showed you the vid again (youve prob seen it) I can show that with a tap he can send said blocks sliding along the ground. Raziel in anger rises against kain, slashes him several times and them holds him against the wall.
Longer than you thought? it happened as soon as he started, the walls were coming down. Now take into account in this match hes not got any reason to hold back, in Nosgoth he does not want to destroy the planet for he needs the food source but here, this is just a fight. He will use his full continental/planetary size of crush this planet.
Your using gameplay mechanics, he does not need to kill anything as the "killing things" is uncanon, its like Dante or Nero in DMC having to kill enemies to increase their devil gauge or w/e its called or to pick up magic orbs. At least Devil trigger is mentioned canonically unlike the bar in LoK. Your going to tell me Kain can only take so many strikes because his HP bar goes down next right? 🙄
Its a sharp PSI slash done very quickly, it was more a glancing blow not a direct impact. When Raziel did an impact in his kick, Kain went flying into the wall.
Originally posted by The Scenario
If I have a strong basis with evidence like I do then theres nothing wrong with claiming this win. Nobody can honestly claim otherwise when my opposition is using gameplay mechanics and reaching for lightning to be as fast as its natural counterpart regardless of how the fiction portrays it, even with other people including myself showing where this is a daft concept Screampaste and otherwise claim it still. Forgive me if you do not agree with this, but despite being the most competant, your not the only oppositin for me in this thread. You cant just take a gameplay mechanic and use it to dissolve the canon of an ability, the teleport is there, its scripted effect is there and described in full....you cant ignore it because its also connected to a mechanic. We can just ignore all durability feats just because Ganon and Kain have health bars that disapear after a few hits.
Reaching? the only difference you outlined is because one looks more impressive than the other, their mechanics are still exactly the same. They still both do damage, they still both have daft effects not seen elseware canonically in their games. They both done make canon sense in their universe, if Sephiroth would wipe out solarsystems or if Zant could create his own reality, why the hell would either of them use any other powers or follow the plans in teh storyline if htey were really capable?
I am just giving it a more likely basis, claiming "reality warp" is trying to give Zant powers that would not make sense and that are not likely considering how their just copies of environments in most cases.
Explain the first video please, all I see is what looks like a river of twilight and a large bug coming from it, no illusion? and the second one is understandable, that invisible entity could be sensed by an animal, sure, but thats not really an illusion.
If an illusion is good enough, you can make people believe what their touching is real, or that their suffocating, its happened many times in fiction. Real therapists and hynotists can do this to real people, make you belive things are real when their not because everything you understand about sensations in the world goes through your brain. Its a better suggestion for Zants powers than that he is warping reality and creating his own little environments.
Ah even more reason to consider it as an illusion, their areas Zant has been as well. So he has actually see these areas. Its interesting that in some of the areas, Zant looks almost as confused if not more so than Link when he appears in the environment.
No, I am claiming that in this case Raziel who actually lives through an event is not fallible because the guy has lived it. Not by eons it doesnt, that ridiculous, maybe a few minutes or hours but someone feeling a burn does not suddenly wake up thousands of years later or die not knowing their life has passed them by. No it cant, ive been burned many times, and have had my hand cought alight, theres no "years" about it, perhaps a long time or exagerration but Raziels actually been tumbling in acid.
Yes, sunlight which is a vampiric weakness. It disintegrates them, it apprently does not burn like acid. And where are you getting instantly from? we only see this in-game. And where are you bringing this "weakness overcomes regen", this is not evident, they just burn in it like acid just like the evidence states. Your ignoring their regen is nigh instant hence why a vampire can last eons in acid. Common logical sense....
Kains been in battle many times and as a general, I cannot prove the specifics but needless to say. Having actual experiance at the forefront and as the general of a battlefield>>>no experiance at all.
wrong, 0:29 you can even see clouds of twilight flying past the soldiers as they run into it and at 0:30+ you can clearly see them standing in it before the shadow beast crushes them down. Hell the guy is lieing in it...it seems only oblivious, blind peasants are affected by twilight or at best, the inisital twilight blast which has a range of a few meters. 😆 Zant will be killed by humans, hes featless strength and durabilitywise, his TK is superior? based on what exactly? Kain can solo the LoZ army sure, I can list you the feats and powers that will let him do it, he can even acquire help using mind control and inspire hate from Ganon and Zant. Or the EG can bury the lot.
Thanks gorgeous 😍 , kiss kiss kiss! see you when I get back!
Originally posted by Burning thought
Not sure what magic it was, is it stated to be twilight magic? because it is unique to twilight itself being in the form of a little shard and all...
Twilight is the only thing that's been shown to turn Link into a wolf (in the Dark World he became a rabbit,) If it turns Link into a wolf, it's probably twilight. Zant and Ganondorf use twilight magic.
I thought twilight was only there until the light was awoken, or light spirits in LoZ case.
The light spirits use their light to protect Hyrule. They do not use their light to protect Nosgoth. Even so, Zant has been shown to use clouds of twilight even when the light is present, such as when he attacked Hyrule Castle.
No its completly different, its a feat of transformation because if Link touches twilight apprently he turns into a divine beast. The soul is not attacked in any way, shape or form, people are only left as souls. This is a daft conversation because vampires are more powerful as spirit, their fleshy husks are just that, flesh to allow them to interact with the world but as vampire wraiths and Dumah, the son of Kain outlines, being in the spectoral underworld gives them void power.
The thing with Link is more of a protection feat, since he doesn't get his soul removed. As for vampires, we've run into a conflict of universal rules. In LoK, souls and such go to the spectral realm. But in twilight, they stay right where they are. If a vampire gets caught in the twilight, it won't go to the spectral realm. Also,
I knew you would bring this up but its not the same, you see your talking about some mistlike dark vapour that transforms, it does not take souls it transforms normal people into spiritual forms and more importantly soldiers into shadow beasts (unless their two different powers then forgive me but it does not change the point), the reality warping field actually transformed things, all things from plants, the sky, the earth and living creatures and Kain was immune so therefore this is a transformation feat. I can understand if you want to claim that Link has the resistance he needs to survive being transformed into a soul, thats all good and well (although I am not sure thats enough to say he immune to transformation altogether) but not soul attacks. Certainly not Nosgoth sorcery that has a completly different attack and actually aims at the soul, not the flesh.
Oh dear, am I getting predictable? Ah, well. Twilight is slightly inconsistent in what it does. Humans have been transformed into both spirits and shadow beasts, while most animals and plants (and Bulblins, for some reason) turn into shadowy versions of themselves.
This turning into this, for example.
But you're still saying that Kain can resist twilight because he resisted the Circle of Nine. If they are so different, why can Kain still resist it? You said it yourself, Nosgoth sorcery and twilight are completely different, so why would resisting one allow resistance to the other? Link can resist twilight, but he's never faced Nosgoth sorcery. Kain has resisted Nosgoth sprcery, but he's never faced twilight. Either both can resist the other, or neither can. If Kain gets to resist twilight, Link should get to resist Nosgoth magic.
No hes not featured physically, we dont see him your right but he is chronologically present. Therefore I can claim he is in the game, you cannot say the same just because Ganondorf was in a flashback.
He's present in the time period, but not the game itself. OoT and TP coincide roughly, happening at the same time but in different timelines, due to how time tends to work in the series. When OoT Ganondorf grabbed the Triforce, TP Ganondorf was being executed. When OoT Ganondorf recieved the Triforce of Power, TP Ganondorf was revived and also recieved it, which was interpreted as a Divine Prank by the Sages.
I also just want to avoid the paradox of someone killing the fledgeling Kain and winking elder Kain out of existence, no matter how tactically sound that strategy would be.
I dont understand your source there, it does not look like an offical statement that can relate to fictional beings. How can anyone prove for a fact that someone capable of hundreds of tonnes of strength can control it?
Eh, I'll admit that's nowhere near official. But still, anyone with over a thousand years experience with their level of strength should be able to control it. You think Kain lacks control? I mean, if he's got 55 tons behind him, when he kicked that door it should have gone flying.
Do we know this happened to Bo? afterall its Bo who is showing Link techniques about how to beat Gorons is he not? and has an artifact he knows beats them....how do you know Bo just beat them and left?
There's no evidence either way. Bo is said to have gained the Gorons respect by winning a sumo match. There is nothing to suggest anything after that.
We must know unless wearing the iron boots shattered the scales, if all it did is go slightly over then their not much over 600 pounds. Personally I dont agree that a weight puzzle in-game is a factual gauge on realistic weights unlike canon text such as the weight of iron but regardless of all this, 600 pounds is still not much and 600 pounds is the best canon figuire you can prove.
It didn't go slightly over, Link tipped the scales when wearing them, even with all the other stuff against him. The puzzle is required to beat the game, and smeone had to program the boots being heavier. Over 600 is the highest that can be absolutely proved, but that does make the boots heavier than iron.
55 tons for each block, Raziel moves two at a time.
Pushes, but not lifts. That isn't a guarantee of him being a hundred tonner, though he is above 55 now.
They "should" cut very deep because their sharp and have thousands of tonnes of PSI on their edge, but Kain is far more durable than blocks and other things Raziel faces. If Raziels claws were larger, their PSI would be spread over more area thus making the feat slightly less impressive. When raziel slices his claws into blocks and pushes them he hardly uses any strength, as BLoodrain also said, Raziel does it easily, he does it without anger and if i showed you the vid again (youve prob seen it) I can show that with a tap he can send said blocks sliding along the ground. Raziel in anger rises against kain, slashes him several times and them holds him against the wall.
I meant that his claws are only an inch or two in length, and while they cut hard, the tips don't go very deep. It's like a grazing wound. It doesn't make sense that a slash from Raziel would do nothing, but a stab from a weakened Raziel's claws would get through to rip out Kain's heart. Raziel's soul was being absorbed into the Reaver, but he not only got through Kain's flesh, but his ribs, bones, as well.
I have seen the block pushing, but he uses his legs and puts his back into it.
Longer than you thought? it happened as soon as he started, the walls were coming down. Now take into account in this match hes not got any reason to hold back, in Nosgoth he does not want to destroy the planet for he needs the food source but here, this is just a fight. He will use his full continental/planetary size of crush this planet.
It took too long for him to bury Kain before he was defeated. He's never shown the level of strength needed to bury Nosgoth, much less Hyrule. His best feat was breaking the walkway as Raxiel escaped. I just wonder why he didn't kill the vampires himself, if he wanted their souls.
Your using gameplay mechanics, he does not need to kill anything as the "killing things" is uncanon, its like Dante or Nero in DMC having to kill enemies to increase their devil gauge or w/e its called or to pick up magic orbs. At least Devil trigger is mentioned canonically unlike the bar in LoK. Your going to tell me Kain can only take so many strikes because his HP bar goes down next right? 🙄
The move itself is gameplay. You're trying to pass off this gameplay teleport as a speed and reaction feat, when Kain's canon cutscene teleports and reaction time are much slower. You're arguing that the dimensional teleport is canon while something like the Nightmare's Hammer isn't, despite them being basically the same thing: a gameplay attack. You can either accept that Kain can't use the dimensional teleport at will, or just write off the move altogether, like you did the Nightmare's Hammer.
Its a sharp PSI slash done very quickly, it was more a glancing blow not a direct impact. When Raziel did an impact in his kick, Kain went flying into the wall.
Exactly. The claws were mere glancing blows. The kick was nice, though.
If I have a strong basis with evidence like I do then theres nothing wrong with claiming this win. Nobody can honestly claim otherwise when my opposition is using gameplay mechanics and reaching for lightning to be as fast as its natural counterpart regardless of how the fiction portrays it, even with other people including myself showing where this is a daft concept Screampaste and otherwise claim it still. Forgive me if you do not agree with this, but despite being the most competant, your not the only oppositin for me in this thread. You cant just take a gameplay mechanic and use it to dissolve the canon of an ability, the teleport is there, its scripted effect is there and described in full....you cant ignore it because its also connected to a mechanic. We can just ignore all durability feats just because Ganon and Kain have health bars that disapear after a few hits.
I no longer care about the "win" comment. Fact is, you deny Kain's combos and then turn around and declare the teleport canon. The combos even have little quotes from Kain, just like the spells he's used and you have used the quotes to claim them canon. The combos are the same, but are somehow non canon despite this.
Reaching? the only difference you outlined is because one looks more impressive than the other, their mechanics are still exactly the same. They still both do damage, they still both have daft effects not seen elseware canonically in their games. They both done make canon sense in their universe, if Sephiroth would wipe out solarsystems or if Zant could create his own reality, why the hell would either of them use any other powers or follow the plans in teh storyline if htey were really capable?
No, they are quite different. Zant actually creates areas that can be interacted with and don't have to deal damage, and both combatants interact with them. Supernova is just a simple attack, that deals gameplay damage. And you're wrong about the canon thing, since Zant is repeatedly shown to be an expert at transforming things. Midna, Link, most of Hyrule, hell, anything Zant touches transforms into something else. I have long ago abandoned the reality warp, in favor of calling it a transformation that Zant is seen doing all the time. Even so, you're taking "reality warper" at face value. Did I say Zant could create his own reality? No, Zant's warping is on a much smaller scale, but it does happen. I never said he could reshape all of reality, did I? Again, no, Zant's power does not extend that far. He can warp creatures and relatively small areas, in a fashion limited to what we've already seen.
I am just giving it a more likely basis, claiming "reality warp" is trying to give Zant powers that would not make sense and that are not likely considering how their just copies of environments in most cases.
Transmutation. Transformation. Small scale reality warp. Whatever you want to call it, Zant makes things become other things.
Explain the first video please, all I see is what looks like a river of twilight and a large bug coming from it, no illusion? and the second one is understandable, that invisible entity could be sensed by an animal, sure, but thats not really an illusion.
The Twilight Bloat is a giant shadow insect that only appears as the cloud of red sparks you saw first. When the camera switches to sense mode, the bug appears. The second one, the Death Sword, becomes visible after being attacked, which shows that it stopped doing whatever made it invisible at first. After it dropped the illusion, Hylian Link could see it.
If an illusion is good enough, you can make people believe what their touching is real, or that their suffocating, its happened many times in fiction. Real therapists and hynotists can do this to real people, make you belive things are real when their not because everything you understand about sensations in the world goes through your brain. Its a better suggestion for Zants powers than that he is warping reality and creating his own little environments.
But it's impossible for Zant to get into Link's mind due to his protection. Zant has shown other transformation powers so it's better than giving him an ability he's never shown.
Ah even more reason to consider it as an illusion, their areas Zant has been as well. So he has actually see these areas. Its interesting that in some of the areas, Zant looks almost as confused if not more so than Link when he appears in the environment.
Or less reason to believe, since it removes the possibility of Zant taking the areas from Link's mind, since he's seen them.
No, I am claiming that in this case Raziel who actually lives through an event is not fallible because the guy has lived it. Not by eons it doesnt, that ridiculous, maybe a few minutes or hours but someone feeling a burn does not suddenly wake up thousands of years later or die not knowing their life has passed them by. No it cant, ive been burned many times, and have had my hand cought alight, theres no "years" about it, perhaps a long time or exagerration but Raziels actually been tumbling in acid.
I'm simply saying that Raziel could have exaggerated based on how long it felt. Since an eon is one billion years, I think he's exaggerating.
Yes, sunlight which is a vampiric weakness. It disintegrates them, it apprently does not burn like acid. And where are you getting instantly from? we only see this in-game. And where are you bringing this "weakness overcomes regen", this is not evident, they just burn in it like acid just like the evidence states. Your ignoring their regen is nigh instant hence why a vampire can last eons in acid. Common logical sense....
Sunlight
2:30
Fire
3:15
5:20
And finally, water
YouTube video
1:20
Not one of these takes longer than 20 seconds.
Kains been in battle many times and as a general, I cannot prove the specifics but needless to say. Having actual experiance at the forefront and as the general of a battlefield>>>no experiance at all.
'k
wrong, 0:29 you can even see clouds of twilight flying past the soldiers as they run into it and at 0:30+ you can clearly see them standing in it before the shadow beast crushes them down. Hell the guy is lieing in it...it seems only oblivious, blind peasants are affected by twilight or at best, the inisital twilight blast which has a range of a few meters. 😆 Zant will be killed by humans, hes featless strength and durabilitywise, his TK is superior? based on what exactly? Kain can solo the LoZ army sure, I can list you the feats and powers that will let him do it, he can even acquire help using mind control and inspire hate from Ganon and Zant. Or the EG can bury the lot.
At no point past 0:29 does anyone enter the twilight cloud. You can clearly see that the soldier in 0:31 has not, since you can clearly see him. If he entered the cloud, you would not be able to see him. At best, you've proven that complete immersion in the cloud is needed, and casual contact won't work.
Zant wont be killed by humans since he can kill them first via teleportation, twilight cloud, and transformation. Zant's TK has caught wolf Link in mid leap and tossed him, restrained Midna, who has her own TK in the tons, and utterly ruined a light spirit's day. He could use his TK blast to throw all the human soldiers off their feet and deal with them at leisure, or simply transform them. Zant is much faster than Kain, too, even in non teleportation movement. He could teleport behind Kain while spinning his blades and behead him right there, as well.
I've already proven mind control and inspire hate won't work on Ganondorf and Link. EG is pathetically weak.
Thanks gorgeous 😍 , kiss kiss kiss! see you when I get back!
Don't stay on my account, go have fun. It's your vacation.
Originally posted by Burning thought
Youve obviously not played Defiance as Elder God starts to bury the place near the end of the fight, hence why Kain teleports. Kain being too fast, strong or having powerful weapons does not deny the EG his size, incredible multiplying+regeneration feats or his ability to carve through solid rock and the planets mantle.
It was at the end of the fight? I was under the impression that the EG could have buried the arena any time he wanted in a few seconds, like you claim.
If it was at the end of the fight, doesn't that mean that it takes him time to bury stuff? Of course not, because somehow, you believe that the EG can bury entire continents in the blink of an eye, yet it takes him the entirety of a battle with Kain to bury a circular arena.
Once the actual burying starts (Kain teleporting out), it takes roughly 15 seconds till Kain leaves, and the actual room isn't even buried. Hell, the Citadel itself isn't even demolished, and you claim the EG can bury the entirety of Hyrule. Hyrule must be a small room in your mind.
Originally posted by Burning thought
Yes, as I said throughout the video he launches slower bolts of energy, not like real lightning from the heavens....at 5:00 he forms lightning in his hands and it takes a few seconds to float to the building he throws it at....this proves their not actual natural lightning that hes calling down.
Few seconds? All of them take less than a second to travel. 😐 The first bolt shown travels from the sky and hits the roof of that building in less than a second, and that bolt is identical to the ones he tosses i.e. that was a tossed bolt.
If it takes a few seconds to travel according to you, Kain's regular teleport would take half a minute, as opposed to the 2-3 seconds that it normally takes.
Except the bolts he tosses function as Natural lightning in the GoW verse. Try again.
Originally posted by Burning thought
Theres no fanon and you have yet to prove it, I claim Kain can teleport, mist and TK/summon blood to him and then its proven evident. I have proven Raziels powers, you just want to claim it fanon because you blindly step onto a bandwagon probably because I refute the things that are nonsense you come out with.
You've never refuted anything noteworthy in your entire run at KMC. In a debate, your modus operandi consists of twisting feats according to your own warped view, and then spouting nonsense such as Kain being a thousand tonner, or the EG being able to bury entire continents, when he isn't even shown burying a citadel.
Kain can teleport, yes. Yet when he teleports at the end of the fight against EG, or when he teleports in the Chronoplast (SC2 intro), the teleports take two or three seconds, as opposed to this 'fraction of a second' you love to claim. His dimension Reaver 'teleport' requires the Reaver to be powered-up before he can use the spell, so he cannot use that move whenever he wants. It's also limited to opponents who are at most 10 metres away from him.
Originally posted by Burning thought
Raziel was in a fury, kicked and punched Kain who realistically like physics would imply went flying and hit the wall. Raziel was enraged when he held kain against the wall, why would he be gentle (proven wrong by the enraged onslaught)? I think this is fanon, your nonsense to deny LoK feats.
What? Your argument is why would Raziel be gentle despite being exactly that when restraining Kain? That's daft. We see him using only one arm & we also see him paying more attention to Kain's words rather than restraining Kain, so there's nothing to do with the "oh Raziel was in a fury," as that is lulzy.
Oh, I'm perfectly aware of actual LoK feats, but not the 'feats' you come up with, i.e. your fanon.
Originally posted by The Scenario
"probably" twilight? does not sound like a strong base to me...is it twilight or not? do we know or is it some kind of other sorcery, and Ganon has his own unique kind of magic before Twilight princess that he enhanced Zant with.
LoK have their own kinds of magical light, but how can you prove they can choose whom to protect? how do you know their light is not a passive constant?
Nobody get their souls removed, their physical forms just sort of dispear/morph. Exactly, so instead of being moved to the spectoral realm where they could not touch anything from LoZ (as nobody in LoZ lives in the spectorla realm) they lose their bodies but become spiritual entities on this plane. more powerful than ever.
Hes faced the general power set of what they do. kains spell rips out links soul and destroys it or sends it into the spectoral realm. Same with mortanius, another who can use spirit death and further, can imprison a soul into something else under his control. Thats completly unique to a mist that has an inconsistent transformation effect, its only consistency being that its base effect is transformation into whatever it happens to turn. Kains faced transformation.
Its still chronological for Lok for them to be in the same game period technically, your comparison of Ganon being in a completly different timeline sort of shows how far apart one Ganon is from the other timewise.
As I said, depends on a kick and how its used.
They tipped but the 600 pounds on the other side did not go flying into the air and the scales collapsed? no...hence the idea their in the tonnes range is unlikely if not impossible if this weight puzzle is a realistic representation.
His pushing strength is still at 100+ and easily. 55 he can push lightly and have slidling along, its impressive either way and works for the Lok advantage.
You dont understand, Kains body was not pierced at all....Kains chest survived thousands of tonnes of PSI without a scratch at all...considering Kain can instant regen/phase through swords and such anyway the chance that anyones putting him down with any physical effort is zero. It makes perfect sense when you take into account the wraith blade on Raziels arm slashed across Kains stomach a second before. The blade that in previous games had exploded/gibbed foes on strike.
He did not truly try until he was more or less defeated, as soon as Kain started to teleport the cavern caved in. The EG's arrogance proved to be its defeat for the moment. What would the EG do to possibly kill all of these vampires, do you propose he buries the whole of Nosgoth and cracks the planet itself in the effort? possibly destorying himself and other civalisations along with him? its not possible for the storyline, but that wont stop him in this matchup.
No, the move itself is just a canon excistence and comes from canon circumstance. You cant try and use the fact we only use it in gameplay to claim its uncanon, its a gmaeplay mechanic that is your using that uncanon.
Exactly, they were glancing blows but the tips scraping across his chest would exert roughply over 10k tonnes if not more of PSI force. Kain was not scratched. Imagine a knife, if you slash a knife across someones chest, it cuts them even if it was just a quick slash...only imagine the knife being able to cut into metal/concrete with easte and have 100 tonnes behind it, the PSI pressure would be enormous and Kain stood unscratched.
Originally posted by The Scenario
Combos are part of every game as a mechanic, DMC, GOW, Bayonetta to name a few. The fact anyone, especially normal humans can survive is pure gameplay, everyone knows this. This does not discredit the moves or motions, or indeed actual powers being canon just because it takes more than a single hit to kill foes.
Whats the difference here exactly? your claim is that because Zants areas can be interacted with their solid? thats not unique because Supernova still interacts with the FF team in tne damage it is doing.
I am still unconvinced, everything Zant does speaks of illusion, a very powerful illusion but if he could simply transform things to his will, or at least to what we have seen then theres no reason why he could not just drown link in water he can apprently form, or create unique areas other than those that look like Dangoros and others. Places hes been....
What mental protection has Link shown?
Hes been there, hence making an illusion from something he has faced and seen himself is even less of a feat of illusion than shaping things purely from Links mind.
I cant recall if Raziel actually said "eon" but you get what I mean, you cant feel like years are passing literally like Raziel recalls, it seems like your trying to claim Raziels reminiscing an event as if he was a young boy who burnt his finger on a match. And Raziel did awake years later, enough so for geographic locations to change and for entities to evolve, or de-evolve like his brothers.
Your basis is an in-game animation? compared to the logic analysis from the games script itself? this is illogical because if it took years, your not going to sit for years watching the game.... Fire and sunlight I can agree with because their bodies disintegrate, Dumah for example was hit by a huge blast furnace but water has been described as nothing more than acid to vampires....everyone knows how acid works on normal humans, let alone super dense ones that can instantly regenerate even in youth.
I guess we may have to agree to disagree, I think him being that close to twilight cloud, and even seeing clouds of twilight appear around the soldiers as they run is more than enough to say that twilight does not always transform beings so easily. Perhaps when Zant created the concentrated blast but other than that, I dont think any vampires or sarafan just walking around the clouds if Zant can sustain them peramnently will do much.
Those things are not fast or powerful enough ot beat an army of humans and all it takes is a few arrows, their completly incompetant. You call that more impressive than Kain? Kain who can lift and restrain men in full armour and you think lifting a small wolf, a tiny imp etc is impressive? nah....perhaps pushing back the light spirit is at least notable but Zants not doing anything other than perhaps (if hes lucky) lifting a few armoured soldiers and I am not sure he could even do that. You mean break his swords against Kains neck? and his arms and body for that matter, as I have proven Kains taken ridiculous PSI pressures.
No, youve proven nothing for either. The EG is enormous, even Madmel in the other thread outlined he is at least continental and perhaps planetary, he is here and everywhere.
Indeed it is, I leave tomorrow so this is, without a shadow of a doubt my last post before two weeks 😉
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
yes physically he could, him not doing so does not mean he cant though does it?
Why would he take time if he only just does it at the end? we see minor tremurs throughout the fight and this is only a tiny piece of the full mass. I did never claim that this one piece of the EG beneath the Sarafna stronghold could bury hyrule, only the entire Nosgoth/planet sized being itself without restraint (e.g., not having to worry about destroying himself).
They dont move like lightnign at all, they move as slow bolts through the air, you can even see them pass through unlike real lightning where it is simply a flash that connects to the ground....
Oh I have, your complaint is just against me refuting you all the time and getting wound up and sore about it. See your making things up yourself now, 1000 tonner? dont recall that, 100 tons, and its been proven by more than just me...so try again 😉
I and many others have timed the teleport, theres no "several seconds" and your using gameplay mechanics....
Raziel was indeed in a fury and attacked Kain with his full strength, dealing no damage and then holding him up. I think your just making daft claims like you usually do, according to you enraged characters are gentle with their foes and apprently listening to someone immediatly disables your ability to use any restraint or force 🙄
Originally posted by Burning thought
"probably" twilight? does not sound like a strong base to me...is it twilight or not? do we know or is it some kind of other sorcery, and Ganon has his own unique kind of magic before Twilight princess that he enhanced Zant with.
Oh, jeez, you're latching onto that? Yes, it's twilight.
LoK have their own kinds of magical light, but how can you prove they can choose whom to protect? how do you know their light is not a passive constant?
1:16, they use the "life force of the gods," so LoK can't replicate it. When I said Nosgoth wouldn't be protected, I meant Nosgoth wouldn't be protected. The spirits protect Hyrule, do you honestly think they're going to extend that protection to another world, and their enemy at that? Nosgoth is not part of Hyrule, so it doesn't get the benefits Hyrule does. Zant and Ganondorf are going to cover every part of Nosgoth with twilight, and LoK can't stop them. And even with Hyrule's protection Zant and Ganondorf could still use twilight clouds.
Nobody get their souls removed, their physical forms just sort of dispear/morph. Exactly, so instead of being moved to the spectoral realm where they could not touch anything from LoZ (as nobody in LoZ lives in the spectorla realm) they lose their bodies but become spiritual entities on this plane. more powerful than ever.
The soul is removed from the body. The vampires won't go to the spiritual realm, so they'll be powerless. They only recieve power in the spectral realm.
Hes faced the general power set of what they do. kains spell rips out links soul and destroys it or sends it into the spectoral realm. Same with mortanius, another who can use spirit death and further, can imprison a soul into something else under his control. Thats completly unique to a mist that has an inconsistent transformation effect, its only consistency being that its base effect is transformation into whatever it happens to turn. Kains faced transformation.
Link has resistence to soul attacks via twilight and Fused Shadow, as does Ganondorf. They're all the same thing.
Its still chronological for Lok for them to be in the same game period technically, your comparison of Ganon being in a completly different timeline sort of shows how far apart one Ganon is from the other timewise.
So Kain can be killed if young Kain is?
As I said, depends on a kick and how its used.
But I thought he couldn't control it?
They tipped but the 600 pounds on the other side did not go flying into the air and the scales collapsed? no...hence the idea their in the tonnes range is unlikely if not impossible if this weight puzzle is a realistic representation.
Lol, that wouldn't happen unless they were dropped from a greater height. Even at 70 tons that wouldn't happen unless dropped from Dangoro's jumping height, and he's much, much heavier.
His pushing strength is still at 100+ and easily. 55 he can push lightly and have slidling along, its impressive either way and works for the Lok advantage.
He does not push lightly or easily, that much is clear. Raziel is not a hundred tonner, and Kain is not stronger than him.
You dont understand, Kains body was not pierced at all....Kains chest survived thousands of tonnes of PSI without a scratch at all...considering Kain can instant regen/phase through swords and such anyway the chance that anyones putting him down with any physical effort is zero. It makes perfect sense when you take into account the wraith blade on Raziels arm slashed across Kains stomach a second before. The blade that in previous games had exploded/gibbed foes on strike.
The reaver isn't any sharper than Raziel's claws, yet it can slice Kain easily. And then weakened Raziel plunged his claws into Kain's chest (and he didn't phase through it) and ripped his heart from his flesh and bone. Raziel had to break ribs to do that.
He did not truly try until he was more or less defeated, as soon as Kain started to teleport the cavern caved in. The EG's arrogance proved to be its defeat for the moment. What would the EG do to possibly kill all of these vampires, do you propose he buries the whole of Nosgoth and cracks the planet itself in the effort? possibly destorying himself and other civalisations along with him? its not possible for the storyline, but that wont stop him in this matchup.
Hah, and even then he couldn't bury anything. A couple of boulder fell on him and that was it. The Elder God could have crushed the vampires with his tentacles, no featless planet breaking necessary. If you think he can do it, Elder God is free to destroy Nosgoth and do all the work for Hyrule, since he isn't anywhere near it. If he tries to move, Nosgoth will collapse without his support. He isn't doing anything.
No, the move itself is just a canon excistence and comes from canon circumstance. You cant try and use the fact we only use it in gameplay to claim its uncanon, its a gmaeplay mechanic that is your using that uncanon.
The dimension fragment is canon, the teleport is not. Simple.
Exactly, they were glancing blows but the tips scraping across his chest would exert roughply over 10k tonnes if not more of PSI force. Kain was not scratched. Imagine a knife, if you slash a knife across someones chest, it cuts them even if it was just a quick slash...only imagine the knife being able to cut into metal/concrete with easte and have 100 tonnes behind it, the PSI pressure would be enormous and Kain stood unscratched.
It doesn't really matter what was behind the claws, since they just glanced off. That was as good as a miss, since such a shallow wound would heal too quickly. And it's still contradicted by Raziel ripping out Kain's heart, so it's all moot.
Combos are part of every game as a mechanic, DMC, GOW, Bayonetta to name a few. The fact anyone, especially normal humans can survive is pure gameplay, everyone knows this. This does not discredit the moves or motions, or indeed actual powers being canon just because it takes more than a single hit to kill foes.
When did I say anything about durability? You're the one claiming that gameplay teleport is canon.
Whats the difference here exactly? your claim is that because Zants areas can be interacted with their solid? thats not unique because Supernova still interacts with the FF team in tne damage it is doing.
Damage is a gameplay mechanic, if you remember. You don't know what Supernova actually does.
I am still unconvinced, everything Zant does speaks of illusion, a very powerful illusion but if he could simply transform things to his will, or at least to what we have seen then theres no reason why he could not just drown link in water he can apprently form, or create unique areas other than those that look like Dangoros and others. Places hes been....
It's seems a reasonably limitation. He did try to drown Link, and how would he create something he's never seen? Maybe Zant's just uncreative. Actually, yeah, that's it. Zant did several things that Ganondorf has been known to do, and is known to be just a pawn.
What mental protection has Link shown?
Wolf body, hylian mind, for starters. His general resistence to magic, as well.
Hes been there, hence making an illusion from something he has faced and seen himself is even less of a feat of illusion than shaping things purely from Links mind.
Or he's creating things he's faced and seen himself. Given his ability to transform things, he doesn't need a new ability with illusions.
I cant recall if Raziel actually said "eon" but you get what I mean, you cant feel like years are passing literally like Raziel recalls, it seems like your trying to claim Raziels reminiscing an event as if he was a young boy who burnt his finger on a match. And Raziel did awake years later, enough so for geographic locations to change and for entities to evolve, or de-evolve like his brothers.
All he says is that time ceased to exist and an eternity passed, both of which are exaggeration.
Your basis is an in-game animation? compared to the logic analysis from the games script itself? this is illogical because if it took years, your not going to sit for years watching the game.... Fire and sunlight I can agree with because their bodies disintegrate, Dumah for example was hit by a huge blast furnace but water has been described as nothing more than acid to vampires....everyone knows how acid works on normal humans, let alone super dense ones that can instantly regenerate even in youth.
Hah, in game animation? That was a scripted event and/or cutscene, watching a vampire disintegrate in water. Oh, nothing more than acid? That's incorrect in several ways, not least in the fact that "acid" doesn't automatically mean "corrosive." Lemon/orange juice, vinegar, soft drinks, etc. are all acids, but they're totally harmless, whereas water is stated as being lethal to vampires. The word acid is used incorrectly in fiction all time, usually meaning something that is corrosive, or will eat away at you. When they say acid, they mean it will dissolve you. But that's all right, as they're all fallible. The evidence clearly shows a vampire dissolving. Raziel got special treatment.
I guess we may have to agree to disagree, I think him being that close to twilight cloud, and even seeing clouds of twilight appear around the soldiers as they run is more than enough to say that twilight does not always transform beings so easily. Perhaps when Zant created the concentrated blast but other than that, I dont think any vampires or sarafan just walking around the clouds if Zant can sustain them peramnently will do much.
As I said before, you've done nothing more than prove that you have be totally covered in the cloud for it to work. a little stream or sticking a hand in won't do anything, but entering it will ruin your day. And then there's the giant swaths that covered Hyrule and will soon cover Nosgoth. Those'll screw everything up, too.
Those things are not fast or powerful enough ot beat an army of humans and all it takes is a few arrows, their completly incompetant. You call that more impressive than Kain? Kain who can lift and restrain men in full armour and you think lifting a small wolf, a tiny imp etc is impressive? nah....perhaps pushing back the light spirit is at least notable but Zants not doing anything other than perhaps (if hes lucky) lifting a few armoured soldiers and I am not sure he could even do that. You mean break his swords against Kains neck? and his arms and body for that matter, as I have proven Kains taken ridiculous PSI pressures.
Why is Kain sending an entire army after Zant again? I guess that's a good thing, since with Zant distracting LoK's army the Hyrule forces have free reign. And yeah, Kain's done nothing impressive with his TK. Zant's stopped an incredibly strong wolf mid leap and another TK user, who he overpowered. And, of course, he TK owned Lanayru the light spirit and instantly brought twilight down on the whole region. Zant's TK blast, which covers more area than Kain's, will knock the soldiers off their feet, since he doesn't need to lift them.
I mean remove Kain's head from his shoulders, since his skin and bones can be broken so easily. His regeneration is the only problem.
No, youve proven nothing for either. The EG is enormous, even Madmel in the other thread outlined he is at least continental and perhaps planetary, he is here and everywhere.
Twilight and Fused Shadows. The Elder God may be large, but he's got nothing to show that he's strong.
Indeed it is, I leave tomorrow so this is, without a shadow of a doubt my last post before two weeks
Originally posted by The Scenario
Their source is the life force of the Gods? so what? the LoK magic is the source of their light power, its still light and Raziel has access to pure elemental light, arguably more powerful against a twilight source than artifical sorcery. Youve yet to prove their power was not passive, how do you know they can choose whom to protect or not? 😆 4 seconds it takes for the twilight "planet" form to protect, ignoring the fact that the EG would bury and crush their entire realm at once, giving the LoK team 4 seconds is lulzy, Kain only needs 1 to solo the main cast of LoZ and thats without them using another spell.
Ok youve gone into the "oh so common" statement without evidence ploy again. Youve got to prove the souls are actually removed, go and do it please. All I see is transformation, the bodies are not even left behind. And as I thought and as Nemebro confirmed in the other thread, their simply being pushed into the twilight realm, their still spirits. The spectoral realm just so happens to be the place of spirtuality where the vampires go, that does not mean to say their souls are not just as powerful if their not in the spectoral realm. Making them a spirit only increases their danger.
Again, you repeated it. Twilight does nothing much to normal soldiers and takes ages to be used, furthermore its a transformation power. The fused shadows has yet ot be shown to do much of anything other than fire blasts and break barriers.
No, because the LoK timezone is immutable. What happens has always happened, it cannot be changed. You missed the point however, Kain is still chronologically there.
Anyone cna control "how" they kick, my question was based on strength, I highly doubt (I dont know, nobody really does as no super strength sentients excist) anyone can control hundreds of tonnes and manifest it. Some people have a hard time controlling the little strength they have e.g. holding an egg, or other soft object slightly too hard breaks it.
It would happen if the boots weighed 70 tonnes, if someone with a weight of 70 tonnes walked on thin steel or wood it would break, this weight puzzle is beaten by at least 600 pounds.
I just proved he is with not just mine but other peoples evidence so your denile is just boring now, boring and as common as your constant claims backed by nothing but vids that aid me more often than you.
Yeh, thats funny you kinda ignored my point. A sorcerous soul raping blade weakened Kains chest and then Raziel finished off the damage. Any material, no matter how strong can only take so much damage or strain, Kain met his match after the reaver Slash+Raziels claw.
Could not bury anything? well yes he did bury the area, it collapsed, you can see the rubble pouring down. Ofc he could not bury Kain as Kian teleported. His tentacles? those tentacles that span his enormous form, those tentacles that would collapse areas? the vampires are numerous across Nosgoth and I never said the EG was fast, hes also not an idiot and would not visciously try and break the planet by smashing after them.
Their both canon, both are in the game.
It does matter, because Kain was not even cut, if he was cut then the thousands of tonnes of force had beaten his flesh. It didnt, but you make a point, even if through some incredible strength and sharp edged power (LoZ does not have) someone sliced Kain he would heal too quickly for it to matter and thats if they hit him at all, mist form and phasing ftw.
But he could not drown link...he didnt, if he can form things like you claim he could have easily simply formed water around him and kept it there. Assuming he can make real water, it seems this illusion/creation (unlikely) only lasts a few minutes if that.
What? lol, nothing then....being a Hylian and magic resistance protects your mind now? 😆 reach far enough Elastigirl!
We know how much time passed and its in the thousands of years and "an eternity passed" is what Raziel is feeling, you cant feel that from anything on this world.
😆 now your reaching that the term acid is being misued? just to downplay the fact that even a weakness to the vampires is worthless just like Zants powers. 🙄 I dont know why this is being argued, Zants powers take far too long to work and the range of his illusions are poor, Ganon, Link and Zant cannot react to teleports remember? their already assasinated...
Weve both proven soldiers are immune to it or can resist it or thats its impracticle, that it takes a huge amount of time to cast to be useless, that the only one canonically who can cast it is actually soft and featless so any random will kill him first, give a few archers the time (4 seconds is ages) and they will turn him into a pincussion. Its ceiling feat of transformation is peasaents who are ignorant to their plight is also evident so it may not even work. Also dont forget Kain is immune to transformation and has spiritual resistance as well, the one of two beings (the EG being another) that could solo Hyrule and its forces is untouched by this slow power assuming LoK allowed it for lulz.
His entire army? I said humans, hell if you want to be specific 10 archers....that way even if we assume these soldiers that are part of an elite holy force are the worst archers in excistence, at least one of them will hit and kill Zant. 😆 Kains stopped fully armoued soldiers and thrown them around with ease, Zants stopped a wolfs bodyweight and a tiny imps, both weighing less than a human arguably.
Ive proven Kain cant be cut by anyone in LoZ, he resisted without harm Raziels attack, combined with phasing through enhanced weapons and regen factor and Kains immune and thats if the blade makes contact, Kains mist form and teleportation will make this unlikely to the slow and reactionless LoZ team 😄
Breaking apart rocks and pillars larger than those the LoZ side whine and cry about for their overhyped feats is pretty impressive alone, and thats ignoring how something of such large size and mass can lift at least its own weight, its size and the pillar smashing alone makes him a solo easy being who would wipe out Hyrule, his regen and his size and strength plows anything they have with ease.
Originally posted by Burning thought
Their source is the life force of the Gods? so what? the LoK magic is the source of their light power, its still light and Raziel has access to pure elemental light, arguably more powerful against a twilight source than artifical sorcery. Youve yet to prove their power was not passive, how do you know they can choose whom to protect or not? 😆 4 seconds it takes for the twilight "planet" form to protect, ignoring the fact that the EG would bury and crush their entire realm at once, giving the LoK team 4 seconds is lulzy, Kain only needs 1 to solo the main cast of LoZ and thats without them using another spell.
Yeah, go ahead and prove that elemental light or sorcerous light can get rid of magical darkness, let alone twilight. The life force of the gods is already proven to protect individuals (i.e. the Triforce pieces) and the Light Spirits work with the same stuff. I don't know if they can choose who to protect, but I do know they can only protect Hyrule and the continent of Nosgoth will not recieve the benefits. You see, the Light Spirits are only shown protecting small regions in Hyrule. Ordona protects the Odon Province only. Eldin protects the Eldin Province only. Faron protects only the Faron Woods. Lanayru only protects Lake Hylia. Each Light Spirit has their own little sphere of influence, and can't do much outside of that sphere.
Quite simply, if a vampire is not standing in Hyrule, he is not protected from twilight. If they are standing in Hyrule, the Life Force of the Gods will probably burn them like supersunlight. And in case you forgot, Zant and Ganondorf can still use twilight clouds even when the Light Spirits are in play.
See how the Triforce repelled that Twilight Beast?
See also 1:07 through the end. The Light Spirit's power is also that of the Light Arrows, which is going to ruin pretty much all of Nosgoth's day.
Ok youve gone into the "oh so common" statement without evidence ploy again. Youve got to prove the souls are actually removed, go and do it please. All I see is transformation, the bodies are not even left behind. And as I thought and as Nemebro confirmed in the other thread, their simply being pushed into the twilight realm, their still spirits. The spectoral realm just so happens to be the place of spirtuality where the vampires go, that does not mean to say their souls are not just as powerful if their not in the spectoral realm. Making them a spirit only increases their danger.
Why is 'oh so common' in quotation marks there? Since when is it common for me to not post evidence?
Anyway,
6:40, you can see the bodies fade away. Now then, I do not recall any reference anywhere in the game that said that Hyrule was being merged with the Twilight Realm. All I remember is Zelda saying that Hyrule was covered in twilight. Also, please prove that vampire spirits are powerful outside of the spectral realm.
Again, you repeated it. Twilight does nothing much to normal soldiers and takes ages to be used, furthermore its a transformation power. The fused shadows has yet ot be shown to do much of anything other than fire blasts and break barriers.
3:30, 5:27, 7:00, 8:21, 8:37
8:00
No, because the LoK timezone is immutable. What happens has always happened, it cannot be changed. You missed the point however, Kain is still chronologically there.
That doesn't matter in a forum. Kain will die when young Kain does, if he's even allowed. But he's not in Defience, so forget it.
Anyone cna control "how" they kick, my question was based on strength, I highly doubt (I dont know, nobody really does as no super strength sentients excist) anyone can control hundreds of tonnes and manifest it. Some people have a hard time controlling the little strength they have e.g. holding an egg, or other soft object slightly too hard breaks it.
So Kain can't control his hundreds of tons when he tries to exert any force. That means he failed to kick open a simple locked door when he kicked it with all his strength. Kain has no strength feats worth anything.
It would happen if the boots weighed 70 tonnes, if someone with a weight of 70 tonnes walked on thin steel or wood it would break, this weight puzzle is beaten by at least 600 pounds.
Yeah, but I wasn't counting Link's chainmail, sheild, and sword when the five times figure was used. That could easily add over one hundred more pounds. And the boots still outweighed the statues that added up to five times Link's weight.
I just proved he is with not just mine but other peoples evidence so your denile is just boring now, boring and as common as your constant claims backed by nothing but vids that aid me more often than you.
It's spelled "denial," and no, I'm not. The measurement is based on how much you lift, not how much you push. Raziel is still around a 55 tonner, at least if the blocks actually weigh that much. Show me Raziel actually lifting 100 tons. And Kain still isn't proven to be stronger.
Yeh, thats funny you kinda ignored my point. A sorcerous soul raping blade weakened Kains chest and then Raziel finished off the damage. Any material, no matter how strong can only take so much damage or strain, Kain met his match after the reaver Slash+Raziels claw.
So it didn't regenerate after the Wraith Blade hit him. And a weakened Raziel still pierced Kain.
Could not bury anything? well yes he did bury the area, it collapsed, you can see the rubble pouring down. Ofc he could not bury Kain as Kian teleported. His tentacles? those tentacles that span his enormous form, those tentacles that would collapse areas? the vampires are numerous across Nosgoth and I never said the EG was fast, hes also not an idiot and would not visciously try and break the planet by smashing after them.
Too slow, and too small of an area. Now, you still haven't answered how the Elder God plans to get to Hyrule, or how Nosgoth will not collapse into the cavity he'll leave.
Their both canon, both are in the game.
Show the dimensional teleport in a cutscene.
It does matter, because Kain was not even cut, if he was cut then the thousands of tonnes of force had beaten his flesh. It didnt, but you make a point, even if through some incredible strength and sharp edged power (LoZ does not have) someone sliced Kain he would heal too quickly for it to matter and thats if they hit him at all, mist form and phasing ftw.
Raziel barely even grazed Kain. Link cutting him apart would be quite a different story. Mist form is either getting burned off by Link's lantern or blown away by the Gale Boomerang.
But he could not drown link...he didnt, if he can form things like you claim he could have easily simply formed water around him and kept it there. Assuming he can make real water, it seems this illusion/creation (unlikely) only lasts a few minutes if that.
You are aware Link can breathe underwater, yes? It's part of the Zora Armor's magic. Link had to switch to the Zora Armor while fighting Zant, which lends more credit to the creation.
What? lol, nothing then....being a Hylian and magic resistance protects your mind now? 😆 reach far enough Elastigirl!
Oh, I loved The Incredibles.
Anyway, yes, having magic resistence does, in fact, help resist mind related magic. It also helps that Link could touch the Fused Shadows and look at the Mirror of Twilight without losing his mind or getting possessed.
We know how much time passed and its in the thousands of years and "an eternity passed" is what Raziel is feeling, you cant feel that from anything on this world.
It was 500 years at most, not much time for a supposed immortal. Didn't Raziel serve Kain for thousands of years? He's simply exaggerating.
😆 now your reaching that the term acid is being misued? just to downplay the fact that even a weakness to the vampires is worthless just like Zants powers. 🙄 I dont know why this is being argued, Zants powers take far too long to work and the range of his illusions are poor, Ganon, Link and Zant cannot react to teleports remember? their already assasinated...
Well yeah, it's pretty obviously being misused. Not all acids dissolve you. Actually, most water is already slightly acidic, though pure water is neutral. Besides, we've seen vampires dissolve instantly in water in a cutscene.
1:20
Weve both proven soldiers are immune to it or can resist it or thats its impracticle, that it takes a huge amount of time to cast to be useless, that the only one canonically who can cast it is actually soft and featless so any random will kill him first, give a few archers the time (4 seconds is ages) and they will turn him into a pincussion. Its ceiling feat of transformation is peasaents who are ignorant to their plight is also evident so it may not even work. Also dont forget Kain is immune to transformation and has spiritual resistance as well, the one of two beings (the EG being another) that could solo Hyrule and its forces is untouched by this slow power assuming LoK allowed it for lulz.
I posted the relevant videos in the other thread. Feel free to watch them again. Again, neither Kain nor the pathetic Elder God could solo.
His entire army? I said humans, hell if you want to be specific 10 archers....that way even if we assume these soldiers that are part of an elite holy force are the worst archers in excistence, at least one of them will hit and kill Zant. 😆 Kains stopped fully armoued soldiers and thrown them around with ease, Zants stopped a wolfs bodyweight and a tiny imps, both weighing less than a human arguably.
Zant could TK own all those soldiers in a matter of moments. He's way too fast for them to hit. His blast knocked an armored Link and Light Spirit backwards. He'd just knock them down and cloud them before they could stand up. You're forgetting that Midna has TK in the hundreds of tons and Zant's TK overpowered hers.
Zant could sent his Phantoms after Kain and just watch the show. Those things teleport everywhere and release twilight clouds when they die.
Ive proven Kain cant be cut by anyone in LoZ, he resisted without harm Raziels attack, combined with phasing through enhanced weapons and regen factor and Kains immune and thats if the blade makes contact, Kains mist form and teleportation will make this unlikely to the slow and reactionless LoZ team 😄
You haven't proven that Kain can rsist anyone in LoZ. He got pierced easily by Raziel's attack. Kain has no reaction feats.
Breaking apart rocks and pillars larger than those the LoZ side whine and cry about for their overhyped feats is pretty impressive alone, and thats ignoring how something of such large size and mass can lift at least its own weight, its size and the pillar smashing alone makes him a solo easy being who would wipe out Hyrule, his regen and his size and strength plows anything they have with ease.
The little rocks that the Elder God breaks are about the size of the boulders that Gorons routinely punch through, so I don't know what you're talking about. Gorons alone would probably take him down, since he can't even hurt them.
Originally posted by The Scenario
I dont have to be so specific, so far all thats required or mentioned to beat back twilight is "light", the "sols" beat back twilight as well once in the mastersword or so you said something to that effect. Therefore twilight is affected by light as the name twilight implies anyway. LoK have many artifical or pure light powers. Your talking about continents, you dont know anything of the like nor do we know if this is the LoK continent/planet and Hyrule slotted together for the battlefield, we only know that the light spirits can at least protect the area their power influences, which is at least continental in size, its safe to say that as long as the loK team is in the area of effect, the weak and slow twilight power is not even going to be effective because of the light spirits let alone LoK powers and resistances.
Yes and twilight clouds are predictable and short range, at best effective against a few vampires assuming the pair are allowed to get that close before being killed. LoK have far more variable powers.
Whats this supposed to prove exactly? ive seen twilight creatures being repelled and I know the source of the light arrows is the light spirits, how is this helping anyone?
Its common for you to post useless evidence or to ignore previous statements. So far theres two vids in your post that do not help your case and previous vids have simply aided me, especially the one concenring Zant attacking Zelda and her forces.
I dont have to prove that, its only stated that vampire spirits are powerful. Your the one making the implication that they have to be in the spectoral realm to be powerful....I must have forgotten where it says it in LoK that they are only strong in the spectoral realm. Yes we can see the bodies fade away, hence transformation, the soul is not being removed the body is simply being formed into its spiritual form. Otherwise if the soul was simply being removed it would leave the body behind.
Why dont these soldiers look like the guard in Zeldas cutscene? when Zant attacks?
So touching a fragement of the fused shadows is proven to transform Darbus, when did Ganon touch it? can you prove he resisted its power or perhaps, he nullified its power with his own control? its important to gauge Ganons resistance by how the fragmenet actually reacted with him. Not all objects in fiction react the same way with all entities.
Ofc it matters, if your bringing the LoK rules and timeline into this argument then your bringing its immutability, I was simply pointing out that Kain crhonologically is present. Tbh I am not sure young Kain is in this vs, but we know he is in defiance as is the powerset.
"sigh", your back to saying Kain has no strength feats despite toying and overpowering a raged Raziel? a Raziel who I have proven the strength of with several peoples evidence? 🙄 I guess this is what your tactic is when your side has lost, denial.
That does not change the fact that Iron boots are not that heavy, their not in the hundreds of tonnes and certainly not 70 either, the platform is bested quite easily by only around 600 pounds. Not much at all tbh. 600 pounds is the best canon figuire that can be used for iron boots, therefore Link is enhanced in strength, but not "super strong" like you may try to claim.
If you can push 100 tonnes then you can push 100 tonnes and exert over 100 tonnes of force otherwise you obviously would not be able to budge this object. Kain bests Raziel with ease all the time and breaks a similiar but more angry push against him from Raziel with ease as well....
No, the wraith blade has a vast number of powers in it. Its only understandable Kain cant so easily regen (he did after his heart was ripped out so it must take longer to regen from the wraith blade). This does not disprove the FMV, if Kain was slashed by the soulreaver in the FMV and then Raziel failed to harm him then you may have at least have a toe to stand on, but you dont even have a toe nail because thats not what happened 😉
Yes, well, that piece of the EG destroyed and area larger than itself. The full EG would not be troubled by breaking the crust and area of Hyrule. Why would Nosgoth collapse and why would anyone care?
Something does not have to be in a cutscene to be canon 😬 your asking the wrong questions.
🙄 no, Raziel with vastly more strength and power than Link with his thousands of tonnes of force did not graze Kain....Link will break his sword on Kains skin, if Kain does not mist or phase to escape such a weak blow. yeh because mist form that takes an instant to form and disperse back into Kain is going to be beaten by Link trying to pull out a boomberang, which will simply slow Kain down a tad...besides Links dead remember? hes cant react to teleports which is whats been proven by more than just me in revious posts...
So Zant cant drown Link? thats what I am talking about, your trying to strawman by missing the point, which is that if Zant could create rock, water etc around Link, he could technically stop him one way or another.
I watched it recently, its a good movie so I could not resist...
The source being magical does not give you resistnce to it. Link has to be able to resist the effect not the source of the effect. When were talking about projectiles that are formed from magical essence then you have a point...and Kain has two forms of mind control, magical source version and pure mental force he gained from Marcus. Thats because the triforce protects against twilight, thats you trying to claim it protects against any and all sources and effects just because it can protect against one....thats a no limit fallacy.
Originally posted by The Scenario
500 years is the time between Kain in BO and BO 2 iirc, It was in the thousands between SR eras, this is evident in humans going from swords and spears to flamethrowers, the land itself changing so Raziel cannot recognise it etc. This is not helping your case, 500 years does not help Zant 😉 he will be dead in seconds...Kain served Kain for a millenium, 1k years...
No not all acids, whats your point? FMV/canon>gameplay animation and your playing on it being impossible for in-game to take thousands of years. And the cutscene does not show us him disintegrating, only burning like its acid, like Raziel burned in the abyss for years. The canon is that it burns like acid, considering we know acids dangerous to humans take a long time and Vampires regen incredibly quickly, Zants not got any time to us his illusion.
Both could solo, Hyrule has no answer to an instantly regenerating/multiplying continental Titan or a Vampire who is too fast, too strong, too durable and too varied in his powers that would allow him to destroy or mind control most of the LoZ cast.
Show me, the best TK ive seen from him is controlling a couple of tiny creatures like wolves and an Imp, I have doubts he can even lift a fully grown man, let alone in armour.....and it would take moments for a few archers to spray him with arrows. Overpowering Midna does not mean hes overpowering her hundreds of tonnes TK.
Yeh, watch the show until Kain teleports behind him and kills him before he can react, or mind controls him and has him attack hyrule.
He got pierced by Raziel after being greatly weakened after a battle and being slashed by one of the most powerful weapons either possess , Dimentional teleport itself is a reaction feat, reacting to moebius posssessed by Raziel in a second>any reaction of Hyrule anyway. Links got nothing to hit Kain with anyway, Kain can phase through swords if he wishes, the fact your relying and gripping onto a PIS moment shows how desperate the LoZ opposition is.
Gorons cant move 600 pounds, and thats the strongest of them. Considering their pretty featless durabilitywise and as Dangoro shows their not htta heavy, EG throws them like projectiles and scatters hyrule with their own forces, or as I said buries them. And the planets mantle that the EG's continetal/planet form resides under is far heavier than any impact Gorons can dish out.
Tried reading BT's posts, got overwhelmed by the pile of fallacies and failure.
Everyone who isn't actively being a troll knows LoZ wins, am satisfied.
Ganondorf soloes this. Kain has no speed or reaction feats at all, and is not impressive. His spells are featless, and so is he. even limitting Ganondorf to one game can't save Kain. And the EG? Lol, he can break a few boulders, is a big slow ****er with tentacles.
Twilight is instant, as has been shown in cutscenes, and no one's refuted ANY of Scenario's evidence. No refute = concession, period. So, thanks Quan and BT, for coneding with such graciously large walls of text. 🙂
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Tried reading BT's posts, got overwhelmed by the pile of fallacies and failure.Everyone who isn't actively being a troll knows LoZ wins, am satisfied.
Ganondorf soloes this. Kain has no speed or reaction feats at all, and is not impressive. His spells are featless, and so is he. even limitting Ganondorf to one game can't save Kain. And the EG? Lol, he can break a few boulders, is a big slow ****er with tentacles.
Twilight is instant, as has been shown in cutscenes, and no one's refuted ANY of Scenario's evidence. No refute = concession, period. So, thanks Quan and BT, for coneding with such graciously large walls of text. 🙂
My posts have "Burning thought" next to them, not all posts have "screampaste" besides the name.....thats the only place you will find a pile of fallacies, whining and failure.
Anyone who actually knows about the LoKverse and can debate knows the LoK side wins.
This is just a petty rant, it seems you did not do as I asked and let Scenario handle this for you, your making my opposition look like a joke again 🙄
Yes, your sad denile and ironic whining of failure and self love will not help you in this thread. Go and learn how to debate, or better yet do not return to this thread and let Scenario have a go before the clown car leaves without you with your insecurities and childish complaint.
Originally posted by Burning thoughtA pile of ad hominem and not a single refuted point. I once more accept your concession. 😉
My posts have "Burning thought" next to them, not all posts have "screampaste" besides the name.....thats the only place you will find a pile of fallacies, whining and failure.Anyone who actually knows about the LoKverse and can debate knows the LoK side wins.
This is just a petty rant, it seems you did not do as I asked and let Scenario handle this for you, your making my opposition look like a joke again 🙄
Yes, your sad denile and ironic whining of failure and self love will not help you in this thread. Go and learn how to debate, or better yet do not return to this thread and let Scenario have a go before the clown car leaves without you with your insecurities and childish complaint.
Originally posted by Burning thought
You didnt have a point, your more like the extremely annoying toddler who runs into the room bawling and getting in the way of an actual mature debate between two adults.Anything you vaguely implied through your rant has been trashed aside or answered/argued better by Scenario.
Ganondorf swats lightning out of the air. This is a point you cannot refute.
Kain cannot harm Ganondorf, his spells are featless, and mostly so is Kain. The EG's best feats are pathetic for a creature of his apparent size and Ganondorf has better. Plain and simple.
You have refuted none of this.
