LOK3 Defiance vs. Twilight Princess

The only thing you proved was that the balls are electrical. I have proved that they're not even close to lightning speed already.

Prove the lightning is slower than lightning without using gameplay as your argument, as that literally is all you have.

1. The video Scenario posted shows an energy ball. It is not charged with electricity. And it isn't even instant. Notice how close Link is and notice there is a cut from Ganondorf charging the ball and Link getting hit? Instant? My ass.

So we've proven beyond a doubt Ganon's electric attacks are lightning, thanks to your for posting more videos of him doing it. Your argument is essentially Ganon intentionally slows his lightning down to go easy on Link, which is so illogical and painfully poor an argument I don't know why I'm still responding to you. 😬

Skimming through this thread, it seems weve got nowhere further than the daft lightning arguments and some fallacies from the Link opposition. I am holiday for a few weeks from next week so maybe the opposition can figuire out some better arguments. Ill prob answer some of the posts in this thread if I fee like it tomorrow but tbh its mostly repeats, the whole lightning "reaction" argument, durability and strength arguments have all been countered by me and others before.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
No, you've proven you don't know what a gameplay mechanic is. 😐 GOOD JOB.

Prove the lightning is slower than lightning without using gameplay as your argument, as that literally is all you have.

I told you it wasn't electricity, but note how it's faster than the lightning is in gameplay? Yeah, the lightning is obviously faster. 😐 Also, lol? You want the camera to stay focused on Ganon while Link is hit? That proves nothing...Except that the ball, which would be slower than his lightning, is faster than the gameplay you're using. 🙂 Ganon finishes charging the ball, Link is hit instantly.

So we've proven beyond a doubt Ganon's electric attacks are lightning, thanks to your for posting more videos of him doing it. Your argument is essentially Ganon [b]intentionally slows his lightning down to go easy on Link, which is so illogical and painfully poor an argument I don't know why I'm still responding to you. 😬 [/B]

*yawns*

You're just trolling. It's useless to argue with someone who continues to ignore facts despite when they been shown multiple times.

You can continue to "debate" with BurningThought if you want. I'm not wasting any more time on in this thread.

Sorry, guys, I just was reading through the thread and noticed something. I missed one of BT's posts the first time and didn't respond to it since it was overshadowed by the lightning reflection feat. Since I don't want anyone to think BT actually won this argument, I have to refute it.

Originally posted by Burning thought
No, its more of a squabble, your just trying to counter a lot of what I am saying without a real argument or real points.

There is no need to respond to this, save that it's inaccurate.

Thats what everyone who argues against Final fantasy spells which are apprently illusions (Supernova being the most talked about one) says and I belive you were among those people. Considering pain is simply a sensation created by nerves and the brain, a good enough illusion would not have much of a problem creating the effect of "damage" of what we see in TP from Zant. Physically neither are damaged despite what they are struck by during the arenas.

Indeed I was, but that's completely different from what you're doing. Final Fantasy spells have a bad case of style over substance, giving huge lightshows for relatively weak attacks. Supernova in particular features the same solar system being destroyed repeatedly every time the spell is cast, and the sun engulfing the planet completely, but not only is the planet fine, Supernova is actually incapable of killing anything. It is a gravity based attack, not fire or nuclear fission or similar.

Now, that pain thing would have been a good point if damage was the only thing to occur during the battle. Link id fully capable of drowning during the Morpheel look-alike, and Link also slides on the ice in the Blizzeta zone. Further, Zant's helmet gets stuck in the ground during the Ook zone, since the earth is softer there than in the throne room where they began. And don't forget the giant versions of Zant's helmet, which can physically block Link's attacks while Zant is inside.

And, just to note something 5L brought up that was sadly ignored: Wolf Link's senses can see through illusions and invisibility, ghosts, etc.. That just proves it isn't an illusion. If reality warping is still too strong of a word, transmutation or creation work just as well.

That does not disprove my line of thought, your simply stating that Link used a different tactic against the actual boss, the dunking in the acid and the predictable hovering over the acid pool seems all about the same, something a reality warper you know would change, as he can apprently warp reality.

Actually it does, since Zant didn't copy the bosses weaknesses as was claimed. Zant used different tactics and had different weaknesses from the bosses. Also, that's just an assumption that Zant would change it. We don't know he would change it.

You just said as I pointed out before that Zant is insane, how do you know he cannot be confused by his own illusions? and I have countered the "harm" part.

Because they aren't illusions, mostly. Zant is physically affected just as Link is. I have countered the counter.

No but his mind has been unaffected by direct mind control which is a more powerful mental attack and a more invading one mentally than an illusion which is simply amplified suggestion usually brought forth by entering the mind, in this case its obvious because these arenas are so similiar to what Link has faced, as are Zants tactics.

Prove that mind control is more powerful. Or not, since Kain doesn't have any. Regardless, Kain not having any feats against illusions is something I'll note for later. It doesn't even matter since Zant doesn't use illusions.

Yes, over years of time as Raziel showed us. The evidence points to vampires that regenerate almost instantly from Raziels extreme PSI and strength taking time canonically to die in water, the only time they die quickly is in gameplay.

Raziel was protected by the Elder God, as he said himself.

YouTube video

0:15
"It was I who made you. Your life had played out. And in my grace, I spared you."

YouTube video

2:17 "Immersion in water, while not fatal, will dissolve your physical body, forcing your return to the spirit world."

YouTube video

5:20 "While it is life giving to humans, water is deadly to vampires. Its touch burns our skin, and immersion in water can kill us. Avoid it all costs."

It took so long for Raziel because Raziel was protected at the time.

The archers? Zants illusion areas cover hardly enough to take out a battlefield of archers who just a few of which would kill Zant and end this daft idea anyway so I suggest you drop this daftness. The guy would not even get the illusion going and thats assuming he can affect more than a couple of people. Its more likely Kain mindrapes Zant and uses Zant to use illusions against his own, mindrape is faster than Zants illusion.

Not an illusion, and the archers be dealing with Shadow Beasts and Gorons, as well as twilight and its various monsters. And, of course, the Bulblin archers. If it comes to it Zant can go giant and start crushing them. He doesn't even have to use his transmutation power when a cloud of twilight or his spin attack will do fine. Kain couldn't mind rape Zant anyway, first because doesn't have it, and second because it's featless even if he did, and finally, Zant has better feats with the shadow beasts.

From being completly dissolved, so? thats because he revived him from the dead....when Raziel awakes he is the spiritual realm therefore he has crossed over. Most vampires would simply turn into wraiths.

So he died after all. Who's to say the Elder God didn't just revive him after 500 years had passed? Regardless, Elder God stated that he protected Raziel from completely dissolving, which is the canon.

Lol, there is no light at the end of the tunnel.

There is indeed a light, but we must hope that it is neither an oncoming train nor on fire.

Bump other threads until this is on the next page, quickly.

BT quit my thread too.

I quit no threads but as I said, holiday soon and KMC is on the last of my list of importance. I may reply to this eventually before my holiday if I get time.

I see people are still posting videos of oot in here and even the final battle which I have yet to get to yet. I didn't look at it but can't post in this thread as there are too many chances I might get caught seeing something I shouldn't about oot until I finish it.

Any future threads I make keep the link references only to the games I mention, please.

Originally posted by The Scenario

Because the twilight realm is another alternate dimension where Zant came from, its not a sorcerous power he created from thin air. Perhaps the ability to merge the dimention is magic but twilight itself is not. No Link has resisted twilight taking his body and turning him to a devoid soul. Its nothing like having your soul ripped from your body forcefully with magic, what your saying is like assuming that just because I have taken a viral shot that I have immunity to all viruses, but no this is not the case, its only a shot to boost my immunity to a single type.

Youve just proven that light from the Sol is all thats required to reverse the transformation....thus no soul was destroyed or lost or devoured like in the case of LoK soul ripping.

My argument of the time period being the same covers the whole "Kain does not have it" stuff....since technically Blood omen Kain is in Defiance, we just dont see it from his point of view. Also Ganon has different powers in each of his games because apprently the timepline is split into young/adult link therefore how would it make sense that all Ganons have the same powers? they have different experiances...they even have unique forms, e.g. Boar Ganon in TP yet his beast form in OoT and ALTTP is a more humanoid biped.

I never said Kains spell would work on someone with resistance, I just do not agree you have proven that twilight touching nad transforming someone is the same as using sorcery to rip out a soul. Its not even necesserily a soul rip of any kind, the soul seems fine apprently it just phases to a new area.

I cant throw hundreds of tonnes, I doubt anyone can control 100 tonnes of strength in thier arms and never have. Even if something really heavy in the tonnes region strikes someone at moderate speeds it can deal major damage or send them flying.

I never said everything that is called iron is actually iron, the fact is Iron boots are not only called that but Bo himself identifies it as iron. Theres no reason he would pull such a specific and obvious metal that the boots resemble out of his ass and considering hes apprently spent time with Gorons who are the "dwarves of LoZ" he would be able to identify it (not that anyone cant, its a pretty obvious metal). Also who are you to claim what is and is not the actual canon? their the same game save a few translated words, the majority of which say "iron" or something other than "heavy boots", the fact the Japanese originated this claim does not make them supercede the word.

Yeh your trying desperatly here, your using gameplay mechanics so I should not even look at your post but its obvious that anyone slashed with something is going to fly some distance, especially if gameplay mechanics has the beauty of them not being carved in two, its the same with the other thing...desperate attempts to try and show problems with LoK, you wont find any as toon as Gorons bouncing along lava.

No this proves that gameplay mechanics are not to be taken as logical canon, but you would not understand this....

Its been proven by me and others that Raziel can push around blocks, several atop of eachother each weighing 45-50 tonnes each, Raziel with far more effort pushes Kain who pulls him away and tosses him easily.

Proven both, your just asking me to prove anything I have claimed now even if I have already done so. perhaps i should ask you again to prove "twilgiht fields" exist and that Ganon is an actual canon chracter in the LoZ universe....such plays of silly bugger are surely below you?

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix

Downplaying? nahh, I'm merely telling Scenario how the EG attacks Kain in the actual vid. Projectiles, and tentacle sweeps are best offense he has against Kain. For defense, all he has is a shield over his eye. For all his threats, he couldn't do much to Kain, let alone bury him.

YouTube video
4:20 onwards.

We see him tossing his bolts in gameplay. We see him tossing what technically are the same bolts in cutscenes.

No, nearly everything you say in a debate when it comes to LoK characters, particularly EG, Kain & Raziel, is your fanon. Just as you believe the LLLC comes up with their fanon, I know you come up with your own fanon regarding the attributes of the three mentioned above.

Prove Raziel used his full strength against Kain. Raziel was busy listening to Kain, and he only had his forearm up against Kain. Hell, Kain couldn't even budge a metal gate when he kicked it.

Youve obviously not played Defiance as Elder God starts to bury the place near the end of the fight, hence why Kain teleports. Kain being too fast, strong or having powerful weapons does not deny the EG his size, incredible multiplying+regeneration feats or his ability to carve through solid rock and the planets mantle.

Yes, as I said throughout the video he launches slower bolts of energy, not like real lightning from the heavens....at 5:00 he forms lightning in his hands and it takes a few seconds to float to the building he throws it at....this proves their not actual natural lightning that hes calling down.

Theres no fanon and you have yet to prove it, I claim Kain can teleport, mist and TK/summon blood to him and then its proven evident. I have proven Raziels powers, you just want to claim it fanon because you blindly step onto a bandwagon probably because I refute the things that are nonsense you come out with.

Raziel was in a fury, kicked and punched Kain who realistically like physics would imply went flying and hit the wall. Raziel was enraged when he held kain against the wall, why would he be gentle (proven wrong by the enraged onslaught)? I think this is fanon, your nonsense to deny LoK feats.

Originally posted by The Scenario

I have won already, how can you deny that when youve stooped to argueing gameplay mechanics and stretching for the hope of Link and Ganon being lightning dodgers on the assumption that A: Ganon launches actual lightning and B: that all lightning in fiction is assumed ot be at natural lightning speed....its all a big joke a lot like my opposition 😛

Style over substence? theres not a lot of difference between the FF spells you whined about in the other thread and Zants "illusions" which apprently in loZ makes it reality warping. Sephiroth creates an unusual effect like the Solarsystem blowing just like Zant apprently appears in regions almost identical to previous boss battles. Yet Zants is real because Link and Zant can take damage? so do Cloud and his gang take damage form Supernova, your not making any sense. Imo their both illusions or if not that something fictionally close.

Oh please, just because his wolf form can use scent to determine something he can defy any illusion? another reach....

Your counter assertion is that Zant who can according to you shape reality as he wishes, warping it to his tastes would not only copy things to almost be identicle to what Link has already faced but keep the weaknesses that he is being harmed by? no logical base...

Because mind control is complete overthrowing of the concious mind wheras an illusion is simply suggesting a falsehood to the concious mind, completly throttling minds is more powerful to the same degree a blast that can wipe out a building is more powerful than one that can blow out a window, their similiar powers over the mind but complete metnal control is vastly stronger.

EG claims he saved him, we still are told that Raziel tumbled and burned through the acid for eons. The EG in this case does not specifically say he stopped Raziel from turning to dust in the water. We see only one form of evidence of EG's "protecting" and thats what he says "total dissolution" therefore the EG did not allow Raziel to die entirely.

proven wrong by Raziel burning in agony for years, only the pain receding years later when he wakes. And I never said water does nothing to vampires, only that it takes an extremely long time, it burns like acid and even the most corrosive acids take some time to dissolve the not so dense human body. A vampire as Raziel said in Soul reaver is not only extremely durable (it can take his hundred ton strength in claw form to the degree Raziel must find other ways of beating even the children) but also regenerate as soon as the flesh is cleaved,hence how water would be little of a threat.

Make up your mind ,is Zant teleporting into range of the archers to use his illusion (it is, youve not proven otherwise yet) and gets pincussioned or is he going to wait for the EG, Kain and vampires (and all mind controlled combatants like Link and Ganondorf) to finish off the Hyrule forces before he walks into range for his illusion? The mind rape as a power and function is canon and like soul powers, one would still require resistance that Zant and most of hyrule have failed to be shown by the opposition so their all fair game. And Zant could not do anything to Kain, not sure anyone on the LoZ side can do much damage to Kain tbh who in his weakest form is unphased by physical harm.

Anyway, this is my last post in this thread at least before holiday, youve got 2 weeks to come up with something better and more stable a base than "zomg gameplay mechanics and lightning dodge!"

Originally posted by Burning thought
Because the twilight realm is another alternate dimension where Zant came from, its not a sorcerous power he created from thin air. Perhaps the ability to merge the dimention is magic but twilight itself is not. No Link has resisted twilight taking his body and turning him to a devoid soul. Its nothing like having your soul ripped from your body forcefully with magic, what your saying is like assuming that just because I have taken a viral shot that I have immunity to all viruses, but no this is not the case, its only a shot to boost my immunity to a single type.

Ah, so it turns out you didn't understand after all. I posted that video of the transformed Twili in order to illustrate that was magic, not thre realm itself doing this. The Twili live there, and they weren't affected until Zant acted up. Zant isn't merging the universes, he's laying down clouds of twilight magic, in some cases very condensed clouds or crystals of the same stuff. For instance:

YouTube video

1:12, "This thing is the embodiment of the evil magic that Zant cast on you."

It is magic, and Link did, in fact, resist it. Further, this magic can turn people into spirits (i.e: souls) and all three Triforce users show resistence. The LoK side won't even be able to get their souls out. To use your metaphor, they've got a really good immune system.

Youve just proven that light from the Sol is all thats required to reverse the transformation....thus no soul was destroyed or lost or devoured like in the case of LoK soul ripping.

Both Zant and Midna are Twili and remain unaffected even without Sols. These Twili are affected, despite living in that universe for thousands of years unaffected. In fact, the whole race is made up of people that spent so long in there that they evolved to stand it. LoK might get some of the mooks, but no higher characters or those already affected by twilight.

My argument of the time period being the same covers the whole "Kain does not have it" stuff....since technically Blood omen Kain is in Defiance, we just dont see it from his point of view. Also Ganon has different powers in each of his games because apprently the timepline is split into young/adult link therefore how would it make sense that all Ganons have the same powers? they have different experiances...they even have unique forms, e.g. Boar Ganon in TP yet his beast form in OoT and ALTTP is a more humanoid biped.

I haven't been using those versions of Ganondorf, because they aren't in Twilight Princess. Just like that version of Kain isn't in Defiance. Try following the rules of the thread, please, even though I've proved it won't work. Even if that Kain was in the thread, he's fledgeling that'd die easily.

I never said Kains spell would work on someone with resistance, I just do not agree you have proven that twilight touching nad transforming someone is the same as using sorcery to rip out a soul. Its not even necesserily a soul rip of any kind, the soul seems fine apprently it just phases to a new area.

It won't work because they have resistence and Kain doesn't have offense. He doesn't even have the spell.

I cant throw hundreds of tonnes, I doubt anyone can control 100 tonnes of strength in thier arms and never have. Even if something really heavy in the tonnes region strikes someone at moderate speeds it can deal major damage or send them flying.

That's exactly what I was saying. If Kain can't control how much force he applies, why did he fail to knock down that door? You said he only lightly tapped it, but now you're saying he can't tell how lightly he can tap things because no one can control that?

I never said everything that is called iron is actually iron, the fact is Iron boots are not only called that but Bo himself identifies it as iron. Theres no reason he would pull such a specific and obvious metal that the boots resemble out of his ass and considering hes apprently spent time with Gorons who are the "dwarves of LoZ" he would be able to identify it (not that anyone cant, its a pretty obvious metal). Also who are you to claim what is and is not the actual canon? their the same game save a few translated words, the majority of which say "iron" or something other than "heavy boots", the fact the Japanese originated this claim does not make them supercede the word.

You're just latching on to the Dwarves thing, huh? Still, you're not getting it right. Bo did not spend any time with the Gorons, nor did he get the boots from them. He's still as fallible as anyone. Iron doesn't look any different from any other silvery gray and shiny metal, and Bo doesn't seem to know much.

And is that a Bandwagon Fallacy I see? Just because it's the most common doesn't mean it's right. You're ignoring the fact that 3 other sources say either Heavy or Lead, so we can't say for sure what they're made of. All we know is that they're much heavier than Iron and can stop Gorons. You never know, it could still be a super dense form of iron that's much heavier than normal.

Yeh your trying desperatly here, your using gameplay mechanics so I should not even look at your post but its obvious that anyone slashed with something is going to fly some distance, especially if gameplay mechanics has the beauty of them not being carved in two, its the same with the other thing...desperate attempts to try and show problems with LoK, you wont find any as toon as Gorons bouncing along lava.

Nah, you just don't have any way to refute the point. It doesn't matter what the transgression is, as LoK uses coolforce just like LoZ. Hah, flying soldiers that bounce on solid ground, and Kain thinks it's perfectly normal. You've got no room to talk, since LoK doesn't follow physics.

No this proves that gameplay mechanics are not to be taken as logical canon, but you would not understand this....

No, it just proves Kain doesn't know what the heck he's talking about. He says he hits a guy with a blade and just blasts him to the ground? The reaver just can't cut things, apparently.

Its been proven by me and others that Raziel can push around blocks, several atop of eachother each weighing 45-50 tonnes each, Raziel with far more effort pushes Kain who pulls him away and tosses him easily.

Then post it, when you're able.

Proven both, your just asking me to prove anything I have claimed now even if I have already done so. perhaps i should ask you again to prove "twilgiht fields" exist and that Ganon is an actual canon chracter in the LoZ universe....such plays of silly bugger are surely below you?

Okay, if that's what it takes.

YouTube video

There's a twilight covered area from the outside, as well as another look at Link's protection.

YouTube video

There's Ganondorf's intro cutscene. So, I gave you wanted, why don't you grant my request? You keep saying you've proved it, but I haven't seen you do so. Do it again if you want me to believe you; when you get back, I mean.

Youve obviously not played Defiance as Elder God starts to bury the place near the end of the fight, hence why Kain teleports. Kain being too fast, strong or having powerful weapons does not deny the EG his size, incredible multiplying+regeneration feats or his ability to carve through solid rock and the planets mantle.

No directed at me, I know, but that's really nothing. That area is already underground, and it takes a minute for the Elder God to do anything. Even then, there wasn't much debris. If that's the best he can do, he's nowhere close to burying Hyrule. The best he's got is breaking some rocks.

Theres no fanon and you have yet to prove it, I claim Kain can teleport, mist and TK/summon blood to him and then its proven evident. I have proven Raziels powers, you just want to claim it fanon because you blindly step onto a bandwagon probably because I refute the things that are nonsense you come out with.

Again, not me, but he is right. Kain's teleport isn't that great (short range and meter buildup, mostly) and he's never used blood TK on anything still resisting. You haven't really proved Raziel's strength yet, either.

Raziel was in a fury, kicked and punched Kain who realistically like physics would imply went flying and hit the wall. Raziel was enraged when he held kain against the wall, why would he be gentle (proven wrong by the enraged onslaught)? I think this is fanon, your nonsense to deny LoK feats.

If he had 40 tons behind him, one claw would have sent Kain flying. But it took a kick just to knock him a few meters. He was listening to Kain while he had his arm against his neck, not really trying.

I have won already, how can you deny that when youve stooped to argueing gameplay mechanics and stretching for the hope of Link and Ganon being lightning dodgers on the assumption that A: Ganon launches actual lightning and B: that all lightning in fiction is assumed ot be at natural lightning speed....its all a big joke a lot like my opposition 😛

Don't claim you've won; it's a little childish (says me, one of the guys who still plays Pokemon/Kirby) to do that. I'm not arguing gameplay mechanics, either; I'm arguing gameplay. Stuff like the teleports or combos aren't just mechanics.

Style over substence? theres not a lot of difference between the FF spells you whined about in the other thread and Zants "illusions" which apprently in loZ makes it reality warping. Sephiroth creates an unusual effect like the Solarsystem blowing just like Zant apprently appears in regions almost identical to previous boss battles. Yet Zants is real because Link and Zant can take damage? so do Cloud and his gang take damage form Supernova, your not making any sense. Imo their both illusions or if not that something fictionally close.

FF spells put on a big light show while doing pretty much nothing. It's still an attack, and still does damage, but it looks much more powerful than it actually is. Damage, unlike Zant or Kain's stuff, is a gameplay mechanic. Sephiroth somehow manages to set of a supernova that engulfs the planet without destroying it. Zant actually changes the arena into something that can be interacted with, not just damage.

Oh please, just because his wolf form can use scent to determine something he can defy any illusion? another reach....

Why is that a reach? Just because Wolf Link can see through illusion it means he can't see through illusion? Yeah, scent can determine whether or not something is actually there. He's seen through that crap before.

Your counter assertion is that Zant who can according to you shape reality as he wishes, warping it to his tastes would not only copy things to almost be identicle to what Link has already faced but keep the weaknesses that he is being harmed by? no logical base...

Honestly? It's PIS, dude, not that hard to figure out. It's obvious he's got some real power, and uses it that way. And he doesn't copy the weaknesses at all, as I've said before.

Because mind control is complete overthrowing of the concious mind wheras an illusion is simply suggesting a falsehood to the concious mind, completly throttling minds is more powerful to the same degree a blast that can wipe out a building is more powerful than one that can blow out a window, their similiar powers over the mind but complete metnal control is vastly stronger.

You can't really say which is more powerful since they achieve different ends. One dominates a mind, while one makes somewhere think what you want. One blast can destroy a building, the other simply kills everyone inside. Zant establishes mental control over those he transforms in the twilight.

EG claims he saved him, we still are told that Raziel tumbled and burned through the acid for eons. The EG in this case does not specifically say he stopped Raziel from turning to dust in the water. We see only one form of evidence of EG's "protecting" and thats what he says "total dissolution" therefore the EG did not allow Raziel to die entirely.

Wrong. Raziel, a fallible being, says that it felt like eons. You know how pain can make a short time feel much longer. Raziel died and was brought back, but the Elser God prevented his body from totally disintegrating.

proven wrong by Raziel burning in agony for years, only the pain receding years later when he wakes. And I never said water does nothing to vampires, only that it takes an extremely long time, it burns like acid and even the most corrosive acids take some time to dissolve the not so dense human body. A vampire as Raziel said in Soul reaver is not only extremely durable (it can take his hundred ton strength in claw form to the degree Raziel must find other ways of beating even the children) but also regenerate as soon as the flesh is cleaved,hence how water would be little of a threat.

Or died and was revived years later. You really think it took years for Raziel to fall to the bottom of a lake? We saw him fall for a few seconds, then get revived by the Elder God. Water is an explicit weakness, just like fire and impalement, and it kills vampires. Raziel was protected, and that's the only reason.

Make up your mind ,is Zant teleporting into range of the archers to use his illusion (it is, youve not proven otherwise yet) and gets pincussioned or is he going to wait for the EG, Kain and vampires (and all mind controlled combatants like Link and Ganondorf) to finish off the Hyrule forces before he walks into range for his illusion? The mind rape as a power and function is canon and like soul powers, one would still require resistance that Zant and most of hyrule have failed to be shown by the opposition so their all fair game. And Zant could not do anything to Kain, not sure anyone on the LoZ side can do much damage to Kain tbh who in his weakest form is unphased by physical harm.

He dooesn't have to take any archers, since Hyrule's forces can take them. Hell, Zant could twilight cloud them and turn them into shadow beasts, or use that TK blast to knock them down and then drown them or dump them in lava. He could TK Kain and warp in the water. He could send a few Phantom Zants at Kain and warp while he's distracted, or let the twilight cloud that they release upon death ruin Kain's day.

Anyway, this is my last post in this thread at least before holiday, youve got 2 weeks to come up with something better and more stable a base than "zomg gameplay mechanics and lightning dodge!"

I hope you enjoy your holiday, BT. 🙂

You should report him, Scenario. If he baits any harder he'll catch a humpback whale.

Hm I lied, seems this will be the last posts before my holiday. Seen as I have some time and this is fairly straight forward to answer.

Originally posted by The Scenario

She just sounds like shes refering to the evil magic or Ganondorf specifaclly channeled into that object. She did not mension twilight, I have researched the twilight realm online in wikis and the main site and the storyline points out that all Zant is doing is merging twilight realm energy with Hyrule, why Twili transform you have yet to show me because the twilight is what they live in. I can only assume its because of Ganondorfs influence but this does not connect with hyrule.

But anyway, this is a strawman still, you have proven they can resist twilight which does not "rip souls from bodies" but instead seems to morph you into a spirit. Thats not what loK magic does....your logic is "LoZ characters can resist being morphed by twilight dust therefore they have resistance to having their souls ripped out" this does not make any logical or sense at all...

As I said, Defiance covers those periods, you just only play as Kain from his Elder point of view. For exampe the point in Defiance where the pillars explode is the point where young Kain, BO1 Kain is still alive and excists.

He should have the spell, canonically he does and even by the rules of the thread chronologically most Kains in the time series are present in the periods Kain and Raziel visit in Defiance. Kain could still just use a combination of TK, the reaver and teleportation.

Because he did not try to knock it down, theres no indication of stress or weight use. I can push my hand against a door without using any or very little strength, but ifI wanted to open it and I had hundreds of tonnes of strength in my arms, it would be folly to belive i could control hundreds of tonnes.

The Dwarves thing is something you specifically said that makes sense with Bo, and ofc he spent some time with them otherwise how do you explain him beating them in wrestling using boots of iron?

It being common amongst people who designed the game implies that "heavy boots" is not the be end of all term to use for the boots and that actual metal labels are more common. Theres still no indication their heavier than iron other than a weight puzzle that may or may not be accurate physically and would put the boots at just over 600 pounds which tbh is not that impessive anyway if Gorons cannot move that.

Theres no sort of "toon" or "cool" force in LoK unless theres a glitch. Your latching onto gameplay mechanics to try and claim how the game is physically broken when every game made has physics wrong with normal humans surviving more than they could possibly take or combos like Dantes or Kratos' tossing foes around when they should be shattered or flying miles due to canon strength. This is the same case, these are just gameplay mechanics.

Ok:

Bloodrain

BloodRain wrote on Feb 2nd, 2010 07:22 PM:
This is something i cooked up:

261^3= 17779581 = V
2.5-2.6 = D

Block = 49-51 tons

Around 50 to 55 tons would be about right. And he fact that he was flipping it over shows it was an easy feat, so 50 tons is the minimum.

And screampastes is in this thread earlier and I cant find mine but tbh with theirs its more than enough and better since someone elses evidence for your proof is better, we all came to 45+ tonnes, each block weghs that much and Raziel pushes two with ease, then we see later that Raziel enraged and not holding back cannot scratch Kains body using the PSI of his claws combined with his strength thus Kain can resist thousands of tonnes (multiplied pressure on a sharp tip) but then pushes Raziel away casually when he uses more force to push him down than he does to push blocks.

The area starts falling apart and crumbling as soon as the EG starts doing anything. Considering thats just the piece under the Sarafan stronghold and not the whole of his body and the whole of his strength, thats pretty impressive. Hyrule has no defence and neither does its inhabitants from getting buried.

Hes not right and hes not mentiond how Kains teleport is poor, Kain teleports and he in the fraction of a second uses a combination of speed and reaction to defeat many foes. Theres no "fanon" unlike the whole Ganon nonsense, the lists of fanon for LoZ characters is astounding.

Its PSI on a claw edge, not blunt weight. The fact Kains body did not get scratched does not mean he should have got flying and when the final kick landed, Kain did go against the wall instantly. Ofc he was listening while holding Kain against the wall. Whats your argument? that Kain was holding his arm up there and Kain pulls it back for lulz? Kain unlike Ganon does struggle when put under pressure, tiny chains like those in OoT and TP are not a problem for Kain that Ganon struggles against 😛

Originally posted by The Scenario

I did not just claim I won however, I claimed several laughable reasons why I had won. Slashing people around without slicing them despite cutscenes displaying thus and regenerating meters not mentioned in canon are gameplay mechanics. I mentioned in the previous post that Kratos and Dante do the same, I think Link does as well....

It looks more powerful than it actually is therefore its an illusion? theres little difference here between the two, your claim was that because Zant and Link are damaged by the arenas that its not an illusion, the same is with the FF spells.....I belive their both illusions, theres no way either created said effects.

Show me Wolf link seeing through illusions, even if you can it would be a no limit fallacy to belive he can see through all illusions, Zantsm ust simply be better because afterall Zant can fool himself (although as you said, he is mad but its still interesting to note) and correct me if I am wrong but Links not a wolf when hes fighting Zant...hes using his sword, sure he can turn into a wolf but that does not mean he canonically did to sniff out those illusions even if he could.

PIS in every scene? thats too much to claim, hes creating environments he can be harmed in, environments that are apprently simply copies of what Link has seen (suggesitng I am correct about Zant just copying images from Links brain) and is harmed by his own regions...all of those he can be hit by.

Their both mental powers, its just that one completly dominates a mind while the other just fools it. Completing dominating the mind is far more powerful, are you trying to argue that someone who can dominate the mind completly would bother making illusiosn to fool it? ofc not...

Raziel is not falliable 😆 , the guy is actually looking back on what actually happens to him and is speaking from the experiance of waking up thousands of years later. What a little pain makes you feel like eons have passed? now thats a reach and a half...Raziel cannot disintegrate after death, as we have seen and as has been stated once you become a spirit in the spectoral realm water "stands as thin as air".

If hes dead then as I said, hes spectoral spirit. Its a mealstrom, I dont know how deep the lake is canonically. And I have connected the dots for you already, water is acid to vampires, acid is acid to humans, humans take a while to burn in acid and can survive acid explosure while Vampires are vastly more dense and regenerate almost instantly from deep wounds....its simply logical fact that a vampire, and as Raziel has shown us can survive a long time as their body regenerates in burning acid. I think the SR 1 or 2 manuel even specifically states that Raziel burned for a long time, far too long for water to be useful agains vampires in this matchup anyway so maybe if I can get my hands on a scanner I will scan it in and show you if you refute to simply connect to dots in vampire bio-physiology.

And yet, Archers do not have to be only in one specific area, consdering Kain is an experianced general unlike Hyrule forces his soldiers are not going to be tossed around willy nilly, pockets of archers in areas would be an end to Zant if he got into range. You mentioned Link earlier sniping with arrows, well the whole of the Sarafan and vampire armies will be spraying the Hyrulion fields. Not sure hyule have an army sized group of archers....I have proven twilight does not simply transform any human, as the opening scene in Tp shows soldiers running into twilight only to get struck down by shadow beasts not that Zants got the range. Its more likely Kains going to just Tk or mindrape Zant tbh....or kill him in a strike, since iirc Kains TK can strikw with enough force to send armoured soldiers flying and kill humans, something the featless Zant would die to in a strike. So Kain waves his hand and Zant dies while desperatly trying to use his slow powers.

Or Ganondorf and Link under LoK control mindlessly kill their own forces while the EG buries them all.

Thank you very much, enjoy your summer 😄

Falliable is not a word, BT. So yeah, that is incorrect, just like everything else you say.

A spelling mistake is all, hardly anything to call me out on for incorrectness when you have lists of hilarious fanon in your view. I suggest you leave this thread to Scenario, he does a better job than you at argueing something.

Originally posted by Burning thought
A spelling mistake is all, hardly anything to call me out on for incorrectness when you have lists of hilarious fanon in your view. I suggest you leave this thread to Scenario, he does a better job than you at argueing something.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Scenario is exponentially better at debating than you are, BT, you know, just so you know. He's crushed you in this thread ad nauseum, and the only reason you suck up to him is because he still acknowledges you. 😐

Originally posted by Burning thought
I suggest you leave this thread to Scenario

This goes for you as well, hes crushed nothing the difference is that he actually argues and attempts to debate unlike you, you think your daft little fallacies and jokes counter my arguments and those of your opposition to your daft fanon so its no wonder him actually debating looks like hes crushing me to you. But seriously, I give him credit where credits due, I grow bored of pestering childish LoZ supporters whining as I collapse their fanon. its nice to have some kind of argument going at last 🙂

Now stop spoiling this thread for LoZ supporters and let someone who can actually hope to contend with me attempt to debate this, your not going to give ihm a chance if you bury his resistance under your inadequacy at debating..

YouTube video

😉

Originally posted by Burning thought
This goes for you as well, hes crushed nothing the difference is that he actually argues and attempts to debate unlike you, you think your daft little fallacies and jokes counter my arguments and those of your opposition to your daft fanon so its no wonder him actually debating looks like hes crushing me to you. But seriously, I give him credit where credits due, I grow bored of pestering childish LoZ supporters whining as I collapse their fanon. its nice to have some kind of argument going at last 🙂

Now stop spoiling this thread for LoZ supporters and let someone who can actually hope to contend with me attempt to debate this, your not going to give ihm a chance if you bury his resistance under your inadequacy at debating..

YouTube video

😉

"I AM TEH BEST DEBATERER EVEREST ON TEH FORUM. YOU JUST POST JOEKZ WHILE I COLLAPSE YOUR ARGUMENTS.

*Funny vid, no argument.*"

Yeah, BT. You sure showed me. haermm

Ganondorf is stronger, he is faster, he is more powerful, and his powers are more useful. He's on a scale far above the Hylden Lord, who cannot even hope to fight back.

Ganondorf shoosts the Hylden lord with lightning, creates a twilight field, crushes him into the ground with TK, or just good old fashioned punches him, and the Hylden Lord dies.

The Hylden Lord cannot counter any of these, he's got not speed feats, minimal strength feats, and I can't seem to recall him having any noteworthy durability, either. Ohnoes, he can teleport, maybe he can run for his life for awhile.

Wrong thread bucko, the Hylden lord is the least of Ganons worries in here that is before he gets mind raped and becomes part of the LoK side alongside his old friend Link.

Perhaps Link, Ganon and Zant can whistle the soul reaver intro tune while their mind raped and watch the EG bury their verse' best.