Originally posted by Daredevil1
By you logic Zaran and Razor fist would need a healing factor/denser bones before taking a kick from Shang.Remember Shang can amp to superhuman levels and is enhanced by your logic anyways.
he he he
He can amp to slightly superhuman, the same level as Cap, Black Panther and Wolverine. It isn't an insurmountable advantage against peak human opponents.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
First Class doesn't retcon X-Men 62, it just retroactively injects an earlier encounter into their history. You could certainly argue it was odd that neither of them mentioned it, but they only met once (twice if you count Wolverine coming back after) years prior to the events of X-Men 62 for just a few minutes, and Wolverine was in his devolved beast form in the second encounter, so Shang-Chi not recognizing him is understandable.Shang-Chi rarely fights Marvel "elites." He has spared with Iron Fist, but they've never had a real fight, and he had a brief exchange with Elektra which amounted to very little, and he has to be careful about using his more powerful chi abilities since he doesn't have bottomless source like Iron Fist. He was weakened for a week after he used the Silent Scream. Anyway Shang-Chi accomplishes his more outlandish feats through chi, Batman accomplishes his through a plot shield. One is valid, one isn't.
It retcons it for sure as the first meeting and second if that was feral Logan that changes things as Feral Logan was portrayed more stronger then classic anyways and his healing was also on a faster level then the norm. Not the regular Logan at all.
Yes Shang accomplishes his feat through his skills as Batman does it as well. And the Batman Lobos have been shown to be cannon unless you have a source that states otherwise. Superman was in blood lust and Batman shrugged it off with his mental block on. Its still devastation in corporation and including taking the hit from Grundy.
Now on point Batman accomplishes his feats to him his skills and they are incredible. Shang suffers from high end SvsFL syndrome and fails in direct comparisons against his peers to prove dominance and stalemates them. Which is impressive but far from superior.
Originally posted by Daredevil1
GM and Yellow jacket are impressive for sure but not something out of the ordinary for the others IMO. I've seen DD fight 100 yakuza all amped with HGH and according to the detective. DD was kicking there butts. Those peak human impressive buts its hard to gauge there skill.
So a fully fit DD fighting amped Yakuzzas is as impressive as fighting two superhuman when you're so weak punching them hurts? Thats impressive but those guys were canon fodder.
Originally posted by Daredevil1
But DD in his body compared to say Hyde and Venom is a 90 lb weakling in comparison and against the other Superhumanes he faces. And DD stalemated Venom and put down Hyde with a pressure point.
In terms of strength and durability, but as a 90lb weakling Cap is also alot slower. DD is faster than Hyde and I'm not sure if hes much slower than Venom.
Originally posted by Daredevil1Which statement? Because DD didn't need too read his metabolism to know Steve is faster. Steve passed him by while they were both running in another instance. DD acknowledge it and the art made it clear. And Steve being stronger that's just obvious of course.
Well yea.
Originally posted by Daredevil1
DD once threw Cap's shield at Hercules and down him for a good while as well. I never said Cap isn't skilled but DD, Punisher, Bucky, Cable, Ironfist have all noted the advantage Cap enjoys with his enhanced strength and speed.
He did that once, and he used an indestructible object.
Originally posted by Daredevil1He has skills for sure. That I won't take away.
Ok but don't you think you should be able to compare feats because in this aspect Cap is superior to DD, in fact hes got better pressure point showings than DD he just doesn't know as many.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
He thinks human fighters in Dragon Ball like Yamcha aren't enhanced or superhuman because the source of their power is "chi." 😆
Its not a true power if a normal humans can do it.
Satan silly daughter even learned how to fly in that universe with training....LOL
What so you think Shang can fly now is this what you are suggesting?LOL
Lame that you think Shang is on there level.
Originally posted by Q99
Thundermind of the Great Ten got his powers by achieving a form of enlightenment, which anyone can hypothetically do. He's a herald-level flying brick/telepath that can exist in multiple locations at once.Clearly, he is non-powered street 😉
Anyone can become a powerful sorcerer as well.
*sigh* what the hell
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
He got kicked in the face... once... awesome? I guess Zaran, Razorfist and Cat all most have needed healing factors to go shot for shot with Shang-Chi?
Except Shang doesn't always manage to fly kick his opponents, you can cleary see that it was a very powerful blow.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Seriously, Shang-Chi has spent the majority of his career fighting characters with baseline human durability, and a lot of his fights take the better part of an issue to conclude... you really believe that one kick mattered?
Those guys aren't as durable as Wolverine and yes I think it made a difference because Wolverine stated on panel that his enhancements gave him the advantage and that Shang Chi wasn't expecting him to be that good.
Originally posted by srankmissingninShang-Chi also has enhanced reflexes.
No he has peak human reflexes.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
If Wolverine had no powers at all, that fight would have played out exactly the same way, except he would have threatened him claws after he beat him. Wolverine threw a wide kick and forced Shang-Chi's guard with a judo chop.
This is why its so frustrating debating with you, you have nothing to back that up apart from it being your own personal opinion, but you think it's correct just for that very reason. You're not special.
Originally posted by srankmissingninHe then flipped over him, caught him in a head lock, flipped him over and slammed him into the ground, pinning his head between the front gate. Now show me, on panel where Wolverine used his powers. I'm not looking for a dialogue box, I'm want you to show me a single panel where anyone of Wolverine's powers would have factored in even slightly.
I don't have to tell you anything Wolverine said thats the reason why it happened that way, hell he even said he smelt it on Shang Chi. Wait so Wolverine word isn't enough now? I'm pretty sure you've used what Wolverine has said as evidence but now all of a sudden it doesn't mean anything? You see thats how it works I don't think it made a difference because that my personal bias I think that because there is on-panel evidence, see how it works?
Obvoulsy his HF came into play and we know Wolverine is more enhanced than Shang.
Originally posted by Daredevil1
Its not a true power if a normal humans can do it.Satan silly daughter even learned how to fly in that universe with training....LOL
What so you think Shang can fly now is this what you are suggesting?LOL
Lame that you think Shang is on there level.
I wasn't suggesting that Shang-Chi is on the level of Goku trying to illustrate a point (which not surprisingly flew over your head) by pointing out that their power is derived form the same source. I guess Luke Skywalker and Darth Vader are powerless humans because anyone can access the force through training.
Originally posted by Deadline
So a fully fit DD fighting amped Yakuzzas is as impressive as fighting two superhuman when you're so weak punching them hurts? Thats impressive but those guys were canon fodder.
Yellow Jack and GM haven't really impressed me much either to be honest. And its not like Steve defeated GM he just pressure pointed him that numbed him.
In terms of strength and durability, but as a 90lb weakling Cap is also alot slower. DD is faster than Hyde and I'm not sure if hes much slower than Venom.
True but Steve wasn't dumb either he used stuff that was lying around as weapons and against those guys and its not like there were 100 of them. Steve is skilled he might have been weak how much slower is the question its hard to gauge.
Impressive but not out of the range of the others IMO.
Well yea.
A good advantage to have.
He did that once, and he used an indestructible object
Yes DD doesn't have the experience of using it like Cap. But its impressive for his first time using Cap's shield.
Ok but don't you think you should be able to compare feats because in this aspect Cap is superior to DD, in fact hes got better pressure point showings than DD he just doesn't know as many.
Pressure points no IMO. DD has incredible pressure points that are exotic level. Like he mentions knowing a death one to this other character in a suit. To paralyze, stop speech, stop sight, start pain etc etc.
Plus the SSS even enhanced Cap's mind. He thinks faster and retains faster then your regular kind of like Slade. Like Logan its hard to separate his showings. And Danny once called his technique basic but IMO because of his experience/SSS/Enhanced brain. He makes the basic work more effective then normal in my opinion.
If we go on by performance against the non-skilled bricks yeah for sure Cap outshines most of his other peers. But that's why there non-skilled bricks and the others don't have Cap's power set.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
I wasn't suggesting that Shang-Chi is on the level of Goku trying to illustrate a point (which not surprisingly flew over your head) by pointing out that their power is derived form the same source. I guess Luke Skywalker and Darth Vader are powerless humans because anyone can access the force through training.
But you still failed as apparantly you can't distinguing from a skill from learning/practicing repeatedly like Master Roshi took many years to develop the KAMEHAMEHA. To regulars it looks like a "power" but to the ones that practice for years to develop it.
It was incredible hard work and that is what keeps on flying over your head. One is a skill that is learnt from continouse training.
And some are lucky in fiction to just be born with special powers.
Big distinction.
Originally posted by Daredevil1
Yellow Jack and GM haven't really impressed me much either to be honest.
No there not that impressive but I have a feeling they would give DD more trouble than 100 Yakuzas.
Originally posted by Daredevil1
And its not like Steve defeated GM he just pressure pointed him that numbed him.
He did it with one finger and he was dying?
Originally posted by Daredevil1True but Steve wasn't dumb either he used stuff that was lying around as weapons and against those guys and its not like there were 100 of them. Steve is skilled he might have been weak how much slower is the question its hard to gauge.
Impressive but not out of the range of the others IMO.
Possibly but DD does have a speed advantage over Mr Hyde and does not have a large speed disadvantage over Venom.
Originally posted by Daredevil1Yes DD doesn't have the experience of using it like Cap. But its impressive for his first time using Cap's shield.
He has a radar sense and has had lots of practice throwing stuff. It's not hat big deal. Hell back in the day Hercules also got Koed and stunned by class 10 Stu Clark. That one feat isn't enough to put him on Caps level.
Originally posted by Daredevil1Pressure points no IMO. DD has incredible pressure points that are exotic level. Like he mentions knowing a death one to this other character in a suit. To paralyze, stop speech, stop sight, start pain etc etc.
Yes he knows more types.
Originally posted by Daredevil1Plus the SSS even enhanced Cap's mind. He thinks faster and retains faster then your regular kind of like Slade. Like Logan its hard to separate his showings. And Danny once called his technique basic but IMO because of his experience/SSS/Enhanced brain. He makes the basic work more effective then normal in my opinion.
If we go on by performance against the non-skilled bricks yeah for sure Cap outshines most of his other peers. But that's why there non-skilled bricks and the others don't have Cap's power set.
Do you have any proof how much difference it makes?
You might be missing the point they're unskilled bricks but the point is that it takes MA skill to hurt and stun them. Cap is much superior to DD in that regard. The SSS isn't what enables him to do that or anybody with SSS would be able to do it.
Originally posted by Q99
Thundermind of the Great Ten got his powers by achieving a form of enlightenment, which anyone can hypothetically do. He's a herald-level flying brick/telepath that can exist in multiple locations at once.Clearly, he is non-powered street 😉
Pre Crisis Karate Kid stalemated friggin PC Superman. Karate Kid even stopped a earth quake.
Clearly Skill, Magic, Tech can indeed go to far lengths of power 🙂
Originally posted by Deadline
Except Shang doesn't always manage to fly kick his opponents, you can cleary see that it was a very powerful blow.
Shang-Chi kicks people in the face all the time...
Originally posted by Deadline
Those guys aren't as durable as Wolverine and yes I think it made a difference because Wolverine stated on panel that his enhancements gave him the advantage and that Shang Chi wasn't expecting him to be that good.
So less durable characters than Wolverine can take dozens of blows from Shang-Chi for the better part of an issue, and yet Wolverine obviously needed to rely on his healing factor because he got kicked once? Please.
Originally posted by Deadline
No he has peak human reflexes.
No he has enhanced speed, strength and reflexes.
Originally posted by Deadline
This is why its so frustrating debating with you, you have nothing to back that up apart from it being your own personal opinion, but you think it's correct just for that very reason. You're not special.
I think I'm right because I spend time thinking about my opinions... which you don't.
I've explained my opinion on this argument several times and each time all you've said is "Yeah but he said..." Buddy, we SAW the fight. Who cares what he said, WE SAW WHAT HAPPENED? Show me were his healing factor came into play? Show me where his sense came into play? You don't have any problem with the fact that you can't do either of those things? You are like a child who just says "Because" over and over again because they can't formulate a real argument. Eventually you get backed far enough into a corner and your argument becomes "You aren't always right you know!" Which is true, but isn't an argument for me being wrong, and doesn't change the fact that I'm right in this instance.
Again: If you and I are playing baseball, and I say "You've never played against someone with a 100mp fastball!" ... then I strike you with curve ball, what does my hypothetical fastball have to do with what actually happened?
Originally posted by Deadline
I don't have to tell you anything Wolverine said thats the reason why it happened that way, hell he even said he smelt it on Shang Chi. Wait so Wolverine word isn't enough now? I'm pretty sure you've used what Wolverine has said as evidence but now all of a sudden it doesn't mean anything? You see thats how it works I don't think it made a difference because that my personal bias I think that because there is on-panel evidence, see how it works?
This is a comic book Deadline, the fight was illustrated on panel. You saw what happened! You aren't listening to Joe Rogan's commentary of a fight, you are watching it front and center. YOU SAW WHAT HAPPENED. I can show you on panel art that supports my stance, you can show me narration... which do you think is more important?
Originally posted by Deadline
Obvoulsy his HF came into play and we know Wolverine is more enhanced than Shang.
It didn't and he's not.
Originally posted by Daredevil1
But you still failed as apparantly you can't distinguing from a skill from learning/practicing repeatedly like Master Roshi took many years to develop the KAMEHAMEHA. To regulars it looks like a "power" but to the ones that practice for years to develop it.It was incredible hard work and that is what keeps on flying over your head. One is a skill that is learnt from continouse training.
And some are lucky in fiction to just be born with special powers.
Big distinction.
A character can train for years and develop magic, or the force as well, I guess those aren't powers either because they come from training? 🙄
Chi is a power. It is the ability to harness the ambient life energy that exists in all things for a variety of uses. It doesn't mater that you get it from training, it's still a power.
Originally posted by Deadline
No there not that impressive but I have a feeling they would give DD more trouble than 100 Yakuzas.
100 yakuza all juiced up on HGH??? I don't agree with that opinion.
He did it with one finger and he was dying?
Yes he numbed GM while he was dying. Impressive but GM wasn't KO'ed or defeated. Its a impressive feat for sure not denying that.
Possibly but DD does have a speed advantage over Mr Hyde and does not have a large speed disadvantage over Venom.
This is true which is why again feats like this are hard to gauge in comparison to other characters.
He has a radar sense and has had lots of practice throwing stuff. It's not hat big deal. Hell back in the day Hercules also got Koed and stunned by class 10 Stu Clark. That one feat isn't enough to put him on Caps level.
True but just think for a first time using it. I remember once even Wonderman once stated Steve possess one of the most dangerous weapons on earth.
Yes he knows more types.
To have a little more skill it helps to know more?
Do you have any proof how much difference it makes?You might be missing the point they're unskilled bricks but the point is that it takes MA skill to hurt and stun them. Cap is much superior to DD in that regard. The SSS isn't what enables him to do that or anybody with SSS would be able to do it.
But nobody has the SSS that Steve has. Not Josiah X not Bradley not Protocide not Union Jack not no one to my knowledge. None got the mind enhancement from the SSS that Steve got. That's why its incredible hard to factor it in. We would have to see Steve fight bricks without the SSS and see if he could accomplish the same results or....or see the other A-listers get the exact SSS/Vita rays/Indestructible shield.
Fighting Bricks he does do much better but I would rather see Steve fight the A-lists like he did when he fought Crossbones(without the SSS) and prevailed many moons ago.
Originally posted by srankmissingninA character can train for years and develop magic, or the force as well, I guess those aren't powers either because they come from training? 🙄
Chi is a power. It is the ability to harness the ambient life energy that exists in all things for a variety of uses. It doesn't mater that you get it from training, it's still a power.
Accept Shang isn't on the level to use chi from other sources other then himself.
Yes Chi is energy in fiction derived from training. If Shang has powers then so do Batman and DD. LOL
That was simple enough. Even though I don't agree with it I'll just use your logic against you. Powers/Superhumanish is simply put beyond human abilities srank. If a human can train to have powers which you admitted can derive from training, then by strict definition it isn't a real true blue "power" as in ie "beyond" human ability.
And if you say Batman/DD don't have powers then again I will say Shang doesn't have powers. To easy. 😂