Originally posted by srankmissingnin
He can amp to slightly superhuman, the same level as Cap, Black Panther and Wolverine. It isn't an insurmountable advantage against peak human opponents.
Proof. I don't want a feat. You say you know a lot about Shang so this shouldn't be that hard. Show me a statement of him saying he can amp to slightly superhuman levels.
This should be easy for you.
Originally posted by Daredevil1
Yes Chi is energy in fiction derived from training. If Shang has powers then so do Batman and DD. LOLThat was simple enough. Even though I don't agree with it I'll just use your logic against you. Powers/Superhumanish is simply put beyond human abilities. If a human can train to have powers which you admitted to derived from training, then by strict definition it isn't a real "power" as in ie beyond human ability.
And if you say Batman/DD don't have powers then again I will say Shang doesn't have powers. To easy. 😂
Daredevil does have powers, outside of his obvious radar sense he has in the past shown the ability to communicate telepathically with members of the Chaste. Characters like Batman or Punisher can't do enough with chi for it to be worth mention.
Anything that doesn't exist in the real world is a super power. Chi is as much of a super power as the PC is, the fact that it can be accomplished through training is inconsequential. Like I've said the same is true for magic, and magic is... well... magic...
Originally posted by Daredevil1
Proof. I don't want a feat. You say you know a lot about Shang so this shouldn't be that hard. Show me a statement of him saying he can amp to slightly superhuman levels.This should be easy for you.
He's never said "I can amp to slightly superhuman levels!" But he's said he can amp, and we've seen what he can do enough to estimate how much. He ripped the head off of mutant Humbug in the end of Heroes for Hire. I don't have my comics with me while I'm at school, and I don't have the bandwidth to download issues, but that is the issue it happened it, feel free to check it out.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Daredevil does have powers, outside of his obvious radar sense he has in the past shown the ability to communicate telepathically with members of the Chaste. Characters like Batman or Punisher can't do enough with chi for it to be worth mention.Anything that doesn't exist in the real world is a super power. Chi is as much of a super power as the PC is, the fact that it can be accomplished through training is inconsequential. Like I've said the same is true for magic, and magic is... well... magic...
Half of the pressure points and techniques that Batman does do not "exist" in the real world srank. Even less then half the things he does in the real world could a athlete ever hope to accomplish.
For DD it could be argued it the chaste allowed DD to communicate since normally DD can't do that with others other then them.
Batman's feats through martial arts match or exceed Shangs. So it begs the question that Shang are also moot to mention if that's the case.
Like I said this is just going in circles. You can go on believing Shang is superior then Batman and has true powers. And I can go my way and believe Batman has powers and is better fighter(notice I didn't say more skilled) then Shang and your logic of Wolverine being more skilled then Shang.
You and me are just both being repetitive and that's just pointless in itself. Can you agree with that?
Originally posted by Daredevil1
Half of the pressure points and techniques that Batman does do not "exist" in the real world srank. Even less then half the things he does in the real world could a athlete ever hope to accomplish.For DD it could be argued it the chaste allowed DD to communicate since normally DD can't do that with others other then them.
Batman's feats through martial arts match or exceed Shangs. So it begs the question that Shang are also moot to mention if that's the case.
Like I said this is just going in circles. You can go on believing Shang is superior then Batman and has true powers. And I can go my way and believe Batman has powers and is better fighter(notice I didn't say more skilled) then Shang and your logic of Wolverine being more skilled then Shang.
You and me are no both just being repetitive and that's just pointless itself. Can you agree with that?
Suspension of disbelieve. While there aren't any instant death buttons on the human body that will cause the body to explode, but pressure points do exist in the real world. There is a difference in accepting that with pressure points a character could incapacitate or kill someone, and believing that someone could spin fast enough to create a tornado and deflect bullets. It's not like Batman is going around busting out the Wu-han Thumb of Death or anything, his pressure points aren't nearly as fantastic as the stuff Shang-Chi or Mandarin or Elektra have done with chi.
This insane dude. You are essentially telling me "Harry Potter doesn't have powers because he learned it!" It's magic, and chi might as well be the same thing. It is a quasi-mystical energy, that he uses to enhance his default attributes. If he is enhancing himself... how is he not enhanced? But whatever, you're right we are just repeating our selves.
Originally posted by Daredevil1
Not by true definition of powers no.But if you want to categorize Shang as having powers. So be it. When debating you that's a note I'll make and apply it to Batman.
You don't need to write my name next to it, it is pretty much board consensus, write down:
Not to self: everyone believes chi is a power.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
He's never said "I can amp to slightly superhuman levels!" But he's said he can amp, and we've seen what he can do enough to estimate how much. He ripped the head off of mutant Humbug in the end of Heroes for Hire.
Jesus Christ that doesn't prove he can amp himself to superhuman lvls. Humbug was dying from what I can remember, and theres nothing on panel that indicated that he amped. I have no idea how you came to that conclusion it also pretty much looked like his body was squishy because he was bug.
In context of what we know about Shang Chi it's not supposed to mean anything you're blowing it out of proportion. It's like the time you tried to argue that Shang Chi was immune to swords because of one feat were he got punched into orbit.
Originally posted by Daredevil1
100 yakuza all juiced up on HGH??? I don't agree with that opinion.
Do these yakuzzas have any feats? Hell you stated that DD was kicking their arses. You think that DD would kick GM and YJ's butts? Punisher has given DD a harder time than 100 yakuzas.
Originally posted by Daredevil1
Yes he numbed GM while he was dying. Impressive but GM wasn't KO'ed or defeated. Its a impressive feat for sure not denying that.
Don't think thats relevant. I thought his condition was whats important.
Originally posted by Daredevil1True but just think for a first time using it. I remember once even Wonderman once stated Steve possess one of the most dangerous weapons on earth.
It's impressive but it doesn't proves he's more skillful than Cap.
Originally posted by Daredevil1To have a little more skill it helps to know more?
It doesn't if it doesn't help you in combat. The only example I know of is Mister Hyde, he's also used it on Hammerhead who was subdued. It's also not just about pressure points but strikes.
Originally posted by Daredevil1But nobody has the SSS that Steve has. Not Josiah X not Bradley not Protocide not Union Jack not no one to my knowledge. None got the mind enhancement from the SSS that Steve got. That's why its incredible hard to factor it in. We would have to see Steve fight bricks without the SSS and see if he could accomplish the same results or....or see the other A-listers get the exact SSS/Vita rays/Indestructible shield.
Fighting Bricks he does do much better but I would rather see Steve fight the A-lists like he did when he fought Crossbones(without the SSS) and prevailed many moons ago.
Look man I really think you're speculating. It's not a hard factor at all. You saw how weak he was. Beating Crossbones doesn't help your case either. Under Grunewald Crossbones was a beast and decimated Bullseye in h2h, if there was such a big skill gap Cap would have lost. Cap never mentioned intelligence being a factor.
There was an arc after streets of posion were he lost his SSS I can't say for sure but a poster on HC said it didn't make that much difference except for stamina. I also not even sure that writers always know that the SSS boosts his mind for example his bio says his intelligence is gifted.
Hell you could argue that DD is more skilled than Cap without the SSS but thats because he has radar sense, thats an unfair advantage.
Originally posted by Deadline
Do these yakuzzas have any feats? Hell you stated that DD was kicking their arses. You think that DD would kick GM and YJ's butts? Punisher has given DD a harder time than 100 yakuzas.
Yes I believe he could knock down YJ and paralyze GM. No the Yakuza have no feats that I know of but neither do you peak human that Steve defeated.
Don't think thats relevant. I thought his condition was whats important.
His condition makes it look impressive for sure. But DD has ow impressive arch of going through hell and coming out and his battle with Ultron.
It's impressive but it doesn't proves he's more skillful than Cap.
True that's why its subjective and because Cap relies on his enhanced stats/mind I view the elite a little more skilled then him. My opinion but yours may differ.
[/QUOTE] It doesn't if it doesn't help you in combat. The only example I know of is Mister Hyde, he's also used it on Hammerhead who was subdued. It's also not just about pressure points but strikes.[/QUOTE]
Yes and he told Hammer head that he normally doesn't use these pressure points because how dangerous they are, especially the death one that Matt knows. So there are reasons DD doesn't use them all the time in combat. So my point of knowing more is having more skill.
Look man I really think you're speculating. It's not a hard factor at all. You saw how weak he was. Beating Crossbones doesn't help your case either. Under Grunewald Crossbones was a beast and decimated Bullseye in h2h, if there was such a big skill gap Cap would have lost. Cap never mentioned intelligence being a factor.
Yes he has mentioned the SSS boosted his mind, its been mentioned since the beginning. Statements like my enhanced mind starting soaking in 1000 years of military warfare to his mention of a perfect recall memory. Even Crossbones told him in another encounter once he got the face beam how to you like fighting someone now with powers-super soldier.
Plus you are wrong CB didn't decimate Bullseye that battle was brief like two panels Bullseye threw something at him and CB shot at him with a gun and then Bullseye left. He decimated Daredevil who's was already defeated by Cap who already was not at 100 % thanks the hell arch. But if its true what you say that Cap is above skill compared to the elites don't you think he would have as much trouble as he has had from other non-enhanced folks?
There's a unbalance with him. As Steve gives dangerous props to Crossbones and Zaran for them at times matching him or Shang stalemating Steve in sparring. Yet if he is above them in skill plus its already a given that his speed/strength is greater.
Something isn't adding up. One has to give either his stats are not greater or his skill is not that greater or below the other A-listers.
There was an arc after streets of posion were he lost his SSS I can't say for sure but a poster on HC said it didn't make that much difference except for stamina. I also not even sure that writers always know that the SSS boosts his mind for example his bio says his intelligence is gifted.Hell you could argue that DD is more skilled than Cap without the SSS but thats because he has radar sense, thats an unfair advantage.
DD did once have the radar for free by the radiation poisoning. But he eventually lost it and Master Stick trained him in the ninja arts and he then learned to do it by just skill. So its not like its a enhancement anymore. The way Cap learned how to do Numbing pressure points by practice is how DD learned his Radar.
Originally posted by Daredevil1
Yes I believe he could knock down YJ and paralyze GM. No the Yakuza have no feats that I know of but neither do you peak human that Steve defeated.
Thats not what I mean't I mean't would DD manhandle GM and YJ like he handled the Yakuzas. I think I've seen that feat and he took them out in minutes. I don't need any feats of Cap beating Yakuzas because GM and YJ are superior.
Originally posted by Daredevil1
His condition makes it look impressive for sure. But DD has ow impressive arch of going through hell and coming out and his battle with Ultron.
I guess you could say it's comparable
Originally posted by Daredevil1
True that's why its subjective and because Cap relies on his enhanced stats/mind I view the elite a little more skilled then him. My opinion but yours may differ.
I really think you're stretching the mind thing.
Originally posted by Daredevil1
Yes and he told Hammer head that he normally doesn't use these pressure points because how dangerous they are, especially the death one that Matt knows. So there are reasons DD doesn't use them all the time in combat. So my point of knowing more is having more skill.
You're not going to argue that Cap doesn't know death pressure points? I'm sorry the argument doesn't make any sense knowing more techniques doesn't make you more skilled if you can't apply them, that makes you more knowleadgeable. The whole purpose of martial arts is to stun, KO or kill if he can't do it better than Cap then he's not more skilled, skill is the application of what you know and Cap does it better. Cap is more effective with pressure point, but not just pressure points strikes as well.
Originally posted by Daredevil1Yes he has mentioned the SSS boosted his mind, its been mentioned since the beginning. Statements like my enhanced mind starting soaking in 1000 years of military warfare to his mention of a perfect recall memory.
He probably has but Cap made no mention of his enhanced mind when he fought CB. He mentioned his stamina and strength and said zilch about his intelligence. I also read the arc after streets of posion as far as I can remember there was no mention at all about his intelligence. It doesn't make sense to make it a major factor because it's been mentioned once every blue moon when there are lots of non SSS showings were it's not even mentioned, in fact what they usually mention is stamina and strength.
You could also argue that with some of his SSS showings they imply that he could beat certain opponents without SSS eg a story where he fights supervillains in a boxing ring.
Originally posted by Daredevil1
Even Crossbones told him in another encounter once he got the face beam how to you like fighting someone now with powers-super soldier.
That doesn't have to have anything to do with the SSS, it could mean just what he said it did, he has powers. Could have said the samething to Batman.
Originally posted by Daredevil1
Plus you are wrong CB didn't decimate Bullseye that battle was brief like two panels Bullseye threw something at him and CB shot at him with a gun and then Bullseye left. He decimated Daredevil who's was already defeated by Cap who already was not at 100 % thanks the hell arch.
I think I got that right. CB could have broken Bullseyes neck but wanted him to die slowly so decided to strangle him to death, thats the only reason why BS survived.
Thats why I didn't mention his fight with DD.
Originally posted by Daredevil1
But if its true what you say that Cap is above skill compared to the elites don't you think he would have as much trouble as he has had from other non-enhanced folks?
Don't think I said that, I just think if you gave DD ordinary senses he would be less skilled.
Originally posted by Daredevil1
There's a unbalance with him. As Steve gives dangerous props to Crossbones and Zaran for them at times matching him or Shang stalemating Steve in sparring. Yet if he is above them in skill plus its already a given that his speed/strength is greater.Something isn't adding up. One has to give either his stats are not greater or his skill is not that greater or below the other A-listers.
Stalemating Shang for a few panels doesn't prove anything. I don't think Shang ever stated that Cap was faster than him and he does have peak human reflexes. Strength doesn't nake a difference to A-list fighters. The only big difference is stamina, hell Cap may not even be faster with the SSS.
Originally posted by Daredevil1
DD did once have the radar for free by the radiation poisoning. But he eventually lost it and Master Stick trained him in the ninja arts and he then learned to do it by just skill. So its not like its a enhancement anymore. The way Cap learned how to do Numbing pressure points by practice is how DD learned his Radar.
Got scans? Taught him to have a radar sense or made his powers resurface? What they did that in months?
Originally posted by SasuOna
I don't know how far your going to get with the time he didn't have his radar since he trained to get a natural one but its important to note Miller didn't make that last that long as DD ended up taking another radiation bath or being exposed to radiation again.
Thats kinda what I was thinking. If Stick taught him to have a radar sense theres no way its going to be as powerful as the original.
Oh and DDs radar sense was switched off during the Marvel Knights mini and needed help from Black Widow. It looks like that doesn't apply.
Originally posted by SasuOna
I don't know how far your going to get with the time he didn't have his radar since he trained to get a natural one but its important to note Miller didn't make that last that long as DD ended up taking another radiation bath or being exposed to radiation again.
Really? I must have missed this. Even I can't collect everything which Title/Number is this. I was pretty sure Miller did that on purpose to make Daredevil more like Batman as in all his skills done by pure training.
Originally posted by Deadline
Thats kinda what I was thinking. If Stick taught him to have a radar sense theres no way its going to be as powerful as the original.Oh and DDs radar sense was switched off during the Marvel Knights mini and needed help from Black Widow. It looks like that doesn't apply.
Found it and the one Sasuona mentions as I believe Sasuona is incorrect as he must have not read the entire book or forgot. In DDv1 177 first off the training Stick stated specifically the Radar of Daredevil is something everyone can have with "training" and as Stick says: "Punk, We all got the Radar its a sense just like smelling or hearing. Men let it decay cuz they got eyes. You got a "free" ride. But the ride is over. Now you've got to earn it.
DD v1 188 SasuOna is right DD got hit by radiation but this time it made his abilities go out of balance and every was hurting Daredevil despite knowing how to already control it all. Again DD turns to Master Stick as he endures all new problems. Master Stick communicates to Daredevil telepathically as DD is in his water tank to shut off his even more heightened senses(after Stick trained him to have them) as Stick states Daredevil is stupid. Matt says the new radiation made everything loud. Stick states it already wore off just like it did before. Stick states again you don't know nothing punk you have senses that everyone has. "It aint the radiation it never was.
DD gots the exotic skills. 🙂
I'll respond to the other stuff tommorow.
Originally posted by Daredevil1
Found it and the one Sasuona mentions as I believe Sasuona is incorrect as he must have not read the entire book or forgot. In DDv1 177 first off the training Stick stated specifically the Radar of Daredevil is something everyone can have with "training" and as Stick says: "Punk, We all got the Radar its a sense just like smelling or hearing. Men let it decay cuz they got eyes. You got a "free" ride. But the ride is over. Now you've got to earn it.DD v1 188 SasuOna is right DD got hit by radiation but this time it made his abilities go out of balance and every was hurting Daredevil despite knowing how to already control it all. Again DD turns to Master Stick as he endures all new problems. Master Stick communicates to Daredevil telepathically as DD is in his water tank to shut off his even more heightened senses(after Stick trained him to have them) as Stick states Daredevil is stupid. Matt says the new radiation made everything loud. Stick states it already wore off just like it did before. Stick states again you don't know nothing punk you have senses that everyone has. "It aint the radiation it never was.
DD gots the exotic skills. 🙂
I'll respond to the other stuff tommorow.
I don't know it seems thats been pretty much ignored ever since then.
The point is the radiation increased his abilities which is why he was feeling so much pain in the first place.
His natural radar wasn't as good as the one he had gotten from the radiation hence why he began feeling a sensory overload and had to get used to it again. Note how he didn't need to train to get it under control this time.
Originally posted by SasuOna
The point is the radiation increased his abilities which is why he was feeling so much pain in the first place.His natural radar wasn't as good as the one he had gotten from the radiation hence why he began feeling a sensory overload and had to get used to it again. Note how he didn't need to train to get it under control this time.
Yes...yes the overload happened but you left out the most important part.
No training needed because it went away the radiation so said Stick. And Stick state it never was the radiation that gave Matt anything.
Thus no training required and never did Stick state the radiation radar was better then the training one. In fact he stated everyone can gain it and that the free ride was over.
Again your speculating without proof and need to go by what the comic states.
