Rank street levelers.

Originally posted by Philosophía
In terms of the performance they've had against other martial artists/street levelers from their universe.

Captain America
Bullseye
Elektra
Daredevil
Shang Chi
Wolverine
Black Panther
Iron Fist

Now that I've made my skill list rankings. On the TS based on performance thanks to there over-all abilities(not just skill as some posters like to imagine).

Wolverine
Cap(Steve)
Ironfist
Daredevil
Elektra
Shang
BlackPanther
Bullseye

Note these are darn close and I could see DD, Elektra, Shang could be switched up depending at what you look into with some of the fights like sneak attacks, holding back, not being into the fight, the context of it all etc etc.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
None of what you said is relevant. When someone says that Silva is the number one P4P fighter in the world, they mean is he the most skilled fighter in MMA. That's what it means, better fighter means more skilled, it doesn't mean stronger, it doesn't mean faster, it means better fighter.

Captain America is a more skilled fighter than Shang-chi, Daredevil or Iron Fist.

No. If Character A is more skilled but another Character B is stronger, Character B isn't considered a better fighter, he is considered stronger. The word fighter has no connotations of strength, it is about about fighting ability/prowess which are just synonyms for skill.

And yet he is. Would you like me to help you find your local comic shop so you can pick up some back issues and be knowledgeable the next time you want to post?

So wrong. Again your logic of better fighter = more skilled is completely upsurd. P4P is in accordance when all weight being equal so of course it's argued for skill in Anderson's favor. That's why Anderson doesn't fight above at Heavy Weight because he wouldn't be the better fighter for obvious reasons with it not having to do with pure skill. You pretty much wrecked your own argument with that logic.

I tell you what I'll give you a chance. Show me Logan defeating A-listers consistently with his powers turned off. Otherwise you have no case for him being more skilled.....as illogical as you already sound.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
So wrong. Again your logic of better fighter = more skilled is completely upsurd. P4P is in accordance when all weight being equal so of course it's argued for skill in Anderson's favor. That's why Anderson doesn't fight above at Heavy Weight because he wouldn't be the better fighter for obvious reasons with it not having to do with pure skill. You pretty much wrecked your own argument with that logic.

I tell you what I'll give you a chance. Show me Logan defeating A-listers consistently with his powers turned off. Otherwise you have no case for him being more skilled.....as illogical as you already sound.

It's not absurd, it's 100% accurate. If a character is a "better fighter", then they are by definition better at fight. It is synonymous with more skilled.

People still say that BJ Pen is a better fighter than most of the welter weight, he is just too small to compete there and be competitive. The word by it's very definition has nothing to do with any of the things you are talking about. Silva doesn't go to light heavy weight not because he would be a worse fighter, because he wouldn't, he doesn't go up because he might not be successful against larger fighters. That size difference doesn't make them "better fighters" it makes them bigger, stronger fighters, and those are two completely different things.

He beat Shang-Chi effortlessly in a handful of panels without taking a hit. His powers were irrelevant because they didn't factor into the equation. Obviously his would have to be more skilled to accomplish this.

Originally posted by Juntai
You have scans?
Looking at No Man's Land Volume 3 right now. Where's it at?
Unless it's a panel they cut out of the trade specifically, because we see him leave the graveyard that battle happens in and no such thing happened.

All that's happened is his forearm has cuts on it. She gets blood on her from them, but the existed before, so weren't caused by her.
In the event that is the case either way, she did land one blow in that fight, punched him in the mouth.
Either way, it ended with her like a deer in headlights as he stopped at her neck with what was shown to us in flashback to be an ending blow.
He had her, and easily.

I know it's old, but I wanna comment on what's being missed here.

That wasn't a fight at all, that was a conversation.

The suicide drill was a kata that Cain had shown both of them- Cassandra was talking to Bruce via using it.

It was accompanied by flashbacks of Bruce and Cain using the exact same moves during his training. In other words, they both knew the ending before it happened, it was going through known motions.

They never fought, even in sparing, until the Batgirl series.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin

He beat Shang-Chi effortlessly in a handful of panels without taking a hit. His powers were irrelevant because they didn't factor into the equation. Obviously his would have to be more skilled to accomplish this.

Lies again. Shang did hit Logan IIRC. Logan even stated first blood goes to you.

Also did you forget about there fight in the past....lol as Shang held Logan over that old monument there were fighting on and had the advantage.

Again you lie and again you don't reference there other fight and again you clearly lack the meaning of skill and fighter and can't distinguish the difference of Logan physical ability/powers and contribute it to just skill is sad.

Shang holds his own with lack of anything other then HTH. The fact speaks and your bias towards Wolverine is well known.

Originally posted by Q99
I know it's old, but I wanna comment on what's being missed here.

That wasn't a fight at all, that was a conversation.

The suicide drill was a kata that Cain had shown both of them- Cassandra was talking to Bruce via using it.

It was accompanied by flashbacks of Bruce and Cain using the exact same moves during his training. In other words, they both knew the ending before it happened, it was going through known motions.

They never fought, even in sparing, until the Batgirl series.

The confusion seems to be that not everyone is aware the the instance in question and the fight in No Man's Land are two separate instances.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Lies again. Shang did hit Logan IIRC. Logan even stated first blood goes to you.

Also did you forget about there fight in the past....lol as Shang held Logan over that old monument there were fighting on and had the advantage.

Again you lie and again you don't reference there other fight and again you clearly lack the mean of skill and fighter and can't distinguish the difference of Logan physical ability/powers and contribute it to just skill is sad.

Shang holds his own with lack of anything other then HTH. The fact speaks and your bias towards Wolverine is well known.

True Shang-Chi kicked Wolverine in the face with a cheap shot after Logan saved him, but once the fight started in ernst, Shang-Chi couldn't touch him, and Wolverine took him apart in seconds.

That is a training match/spar. Panther has beaten Cap in training match. Tim Drake has beaten Shiva in a training match. A 12 year old Black Widow has beaten Wolverine in a training match. They are largely irrelevant, even ones where the outcome is accurate like Captain America beating Shang-Chi in Secret Avengers. I didn't reference the Wolverine / Shang training match in First Class because like all training matches it doesn't mater.

Shang-Chi has Batgirl style body reading, some of the best speed feats of any street level MA bar non, and the ability to amp his attributes to blatantly superhuman levels with his chi.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
True Shang-Chi kicked Wolverine in the face with a cheap shot after Logan saved him, but once the fight started in ernst, Shang-Chi couldn't touch him, and Wolverine took him apart in seconds.

That is a training match/spar. Panther has beaten Cap in training match. Tim Drake has beaten Shiva in a training match. A 12 year old Black Widow has beaten Wolverine in a training match. They are largely irrelevant, even ones where the outcome is accurate like Captain America beating Shang-Chi in Secret Avengers. I didn't reference the Wolverine / Shang training match in First Class because like all training matches it doesn't mater.

Shang-Chi has Batgirl style body reading, some of the best speed feats of any street level MA bar non, and the ability to amp his attributes to blatantly superhuman levels with his chi.

Point is he hit him and it did not appear Logan was not prepared. Second match was still a match with even Logan using his claws the guy was pissed, Shang advantage I see you just like to make excuses. Panther beat Cap in a training match are you talking about the one were Cap was still recovering from his wounds from Iron Man in Civil War...Context is important.

Training matches are relevant if it displays both abilities in just point fights not trying to go for the kill, unless specific fighter states he's holding back.

I'm glad you reference Shang's true blue martial arts skill with Chi something Logan lacks in comparison showing more exotic skill is knowing more skill as well.

Thank you come again.

I'd like to see what lame excuse you also make when Logan and Danny fought. Ironfist even made Logan look noobish in there fight.

But obviously Logan is more skilled then the elite and his power set doesn't contribute in the slightest....LOL

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Point is he hit him and it did not appear Logan was not prepared. Second match was still a match with even Logan using his claws the guy was pissed, Shang advantage I see you just like to make excuses. Panther beat Cap in a training match are you talking about the one were Cap was still recovering from his wounds from Iron Man in Civil War...Context is important.

Training matches are relevant if it displays both abilities in just point fights not trying to go for the kill, unless specific fighter states he's holding back.

I'm glad you reference Shang's true blue martial arts skill with Chi something Logan lacks in comparison showing more exotic skill is knowing more skill as well.

Thank you come again.

Wolverine saved Shang-Chi from his assailants, Shang-Chi attacked him with a cheap shot Wolverine dropped him.

The second fight wasn't a fight, it was a training match. Wolverine went to Shang-Chi for the same reason he went to all his others instructors(except Po), to learn to cage the Berserker. The context for the Captain America / Black Panther training fight is irrelevant, it was spar, it already doesn't matter by default.

Yeah Wolverine can't use chi, because of his berserker rage his mind and body aren't one and he has no balance. Doesn't change the fact that his application of skill and technique is nearly peerless.

nearly peerless....LOL Shang saved himself by blocking there bullets by using one of them as a shield IIRC. Logan helped there's a difference.

Yeah when Logan even does half of the stuff(and that's being generous) to characters like Shang who have not powers,enhancements, or offensive weapons get back to me.

Because your Logan bias has been shown.

Clearly.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
I'd like to see what lame excuse you also make when Logan and Danny fought. Ironfist even made Logan look noobish in there fight.

But obviously Logan is more skilled then the elite and his power set doesn't contribute in the slightest....LOL

It happened 30 years ago before Wolverine was developed into in a skilled fighter? Jukko effortlessly schooled Iron Fist in h2h, and he couldn't compete with Wolverine.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
nearly peerless....LOL

Yeah when he even does 80 % of the stuff(and that's being generous) to characters like Shang who have not powers,enhancements, or offensive weapons get back to me.

Because you Logan bias has been shown.

Clearly.

Shang-Chi does have powers and enhancements... he's walks on cielings, spins so fast he creates tornadoes and gets punched into orbit and survives 😕

Wolverine wrecked Shang-Chi in h2h. He did it in seconds. He did it with out getting hit. He didn't use his claws until Shang-Chi was pinned. His healing factor didn't matter. His senses didn't matter. That is what Wolverine would do to Shang-Chi in a real fight even without his powers. Other than guys like the Mandarin and Temugen, or Stick and Ogun, Wolverine and Captain America are the two most skilled fighters on Marvel earth. Hands down.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
It happened 30 years ago before Wolverine was developed into in a skilled fighter? Jukko effortlessly schooled Iron Fist in h2h, and he couldn't compete with Wolverine.

ha ha ha I saw that excuse coming a mile away. Fact of the matter its in continuity and Danny treated him like a noob. Yup Logan relying on his power set against Jukko really helped him. Again you have no proof Logan is more skilled then Shang.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Shang-Chi does have powers and enhancements... he's walks on cielings, spins so fast he creates tornadoes and gets punched into orbit and survives 😕

Wolverine wrecked Shang-Chi in h2h. He did it in seconds. He did it with out getting hit. He didn't use his claws until Shang-Chi was pinned. His healing factor didn't matter. His senses didn't matter. That is what Wolverine would do to Shang-Chi in a real fight even without his powers. Other than guys like the Mandarin and Temugen, or Stick and Ogun, Wolverine and Captain America are the two most skilled fighters on Marvel earth.

No Shang has skills and his skills lets him do incredible things, please no the distinction. No SSS no fancy claws.. no fancy healing factor not even a mutant. Logan got hit and Shang had the advantage in there other match up. Try again.

He does everything that he does through skill. And those skills can indeed make a lot of kills. Get it skills and kills rhyme.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
ha ha ha I saw that excuse coming a mile away. Fact of the matter its in continuity and Danny treated him like a noob. Yup Logan relying on his power set against Jukko really helped him. Again you have no proof Logan is more skilled then Shang.

By excuse you mean undisputed fact? Wolverine was a nobody when Iron Fist tossed him around, he wasn't a skilled fighter, he didn't have a healing factor, he was just a bruiser. Junzo only "hit" Wolverine once by transmuting the earth underneath him, he owned Danny effortlessly and he couldn't compete with Wolverine in melee.

No proof other than Wolverine effortlessly owning Shang-Chi in combat...

Originally posted by Daredevil1
No Shang has skills and his skills lets him do incredible things, please no the distinction. No SSS no fancy claws.. no fancy healing factor not even a mutant. Logan got hit and Shang had the advantage in there other match up. Try again.

He does everything that he does through skill. And those skills can indeed make a lot of kills. Get it skills and kills rhyme.

Shang-Chi has chi. Wolverine wrecked him without getting hit. The second "fight" was a training match which is irrelevant, and Shang-Chi conceded that Wolverine was the master now, at the end of that issue anyway.

And Shang having the upper hand in the other fight.

Fact that he was getting owned despite Logan's portrayal of the time. Indeed Logan looked like a noob against him. Fact. Not my problem how Logan was portrayed with a set of adamantium claws and he was portrayed as having uber durability as just a slasher.

I don't think anyone in there right mind would say Logan has more skill then Shang. LOL I love that you keep on posting so more others can read this.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
And Shang having the upper hand in the other fight.

Fact that he was getting owned despite Logan's portrayal of the time. Indeed Logan looked like a noob against him. Fact. Not my problem how Logan was portrayed with a set of adamantium claws and he was portrayed as having uber durability as just a slasher.

I don't think anyone in there right mind would say Logan has more skill then Shang. LOL I love that you keep on posting so more others can read this.

Not a fight, a training match. Shang-Chi attacked Wolverine with various weapons, Wolverine attempted to blocked or parry and then retreat. He never attempt to push the offensive, because it wasn't a fight. He was there to learn how to control his berserker. The outcome is irrelevant like all spars and training matches.

Anyone familiar with both characters on the level I am would be well aware of the fact that Wolverine is more skilled than Shang-Chi. Wolverine effortlessly beat him in X-Men 62, and after they spared in First Class 09, Shang-Chi conceded that Wolverine was the master now.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Shang-Chi has chi. Wolverine wrecked him without getting hit. The second "fight" was a training match which is irrelevant, and Shang-Chi conceded that Wolverine was the master now, at the end of that issue anyway.

Shang has Chi skills.
Called him the master after answering the question right........LOL.

Not for there encounter which Shang dominated him. he he he he he.

Logan got wrecked and didn't even hit Shang in that match unlike Logan he did got hit in the X-men one. So much for more skill then Shang.