Apocalypse vs Cheetah

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
The matter manipulation bullshit has also been debunked. He didn't turn Ozymandias to stone, Rama-Tut's technology - the knowledge contained within - did.

"The inhuman fury behind the boy's blow sends the General flying into Rama-Tut's unfathomably technology -- unleashing the hidden knowledge of millenia to come -- to deposit it into a receptacle too small and uncomprehending to contain it -- Ozymandias' blistering synapses."

This is what results in Ozymandias' transformation.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
While you're at it isn't there some context behind Apoc's regeneration feat? I remember reading somewhere that he needs a vat of human organs to regenerate from.

I only really looked into the telepathy because silly people kept on proclaiming Apocalypse to have telepathy surpassing Xavier.

And then listing other "exotic powers" which were either misinterpretations, complete BS or one-off instances, like saying Apocalypse has better matter manipulation than Sersi through misinterpreting Rise of Apocalypse #4. 😐

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
I can't remember.

I only really looked into the telepathy because silly people kept on proclaiming Apocalypse to have telepathy surpassing Xavier.

And then listing other "exotic powers" which were either misinterpretations, complete BS or one-off instances, like saying Apocalypse has better matter manipulation than Sersi through misinterpreting Rise of Apocalypse #4. 😐

Originally posted by Omega Vision
From my understanding after his original body was destroyed Apoc lost the ability to regenerate from any injury and now requires tech to heal from critical injuries.

But I can't recall the limitations of his on-the-fly regen. I don't recall him being as T-1000 as Mr Sinister though.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
IIRC he requires technology to sustain his longevity.

But I can't recall the limitations of his on-the-fly regen. I don't recall him being as T-1000 as Mr Sinister though.

IIRC he can accomplish "full" regeneration but it requires that a drop of his blood be administered to a full vat of human organs. So not really a valid battle tactic unless Cheetah is willing to wait for him.

Tyrant is obviously misrepresenting Apoc's abilities in a lot of ways, but I think one point on which I think he is right is that we can't assume that speed (short of zoom levels) is going to be effective against him. Even if the speedsters he's beaten aren't as fast as Cheetah, he's done enough that it would be foolish to assume that she just kills him with speed; for instance, if we saw a character with energy absorbing abilities absorb blasts from cyclops, holocaust and magneto, would we just assume, in a forum match between this character and surfer, that "surfer is just so much more powerful than those other characters that he won't be able to absorb it"? When it comes to the most extreme levels (speed: zoom, strength: PC Valdius, energy: Galactus), I understand, but in this case I think we should give Apoc the benefit of the doubt.

Originally posted by Simbon
Tyrant is obviously misrepresenting Apoc's abilities in a lot of ways, but I think one point on which I think he is right is that we can't assume that speed (short of zoom levels) is going to be effective against him. Even if the speedsters he's beaten aren't as fast as Cheetah, he's done enough that it would be foolish to assume that she just kills him with speed; for instance, if we saw a character with energy absorbing abilities absorb blasts from cyclops, holocaust and magneto, would we just assume, in a forum match between this character and surfer, that "surfer is just so much more powerful than those other characters that he won't be able to absorb it"? When it comes to the most extreme levels (speed: zoom, strength: PC Valdius, energy: Galactus), I understand, but in this case I think we should give Apoc the benefit of the doubt.

Unless he has feats proving he has the speed to go toe to toe with her we can't project those stats onto him.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Oh, not this shit again.

Mr Sinister actually has some telepathic feats.

Apocalypse has next to none. That one scan Tyrant posted has been debunked before.

Also I would have thought EC posting this:

http://www.formspring.me/TomBrevoort

Q: Is Apocalypse a telepath? I know he's a telekinetic but during the Onslaught Saga he needed Cable to access the astral plane? During X-Factor he needed Baby Cable and a machine. Just wondering.

A: I don't think we've ever indicated that Apocalypse is a telepath.

http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/4834/32256504.jpg

Would have finally got you to give up on the ridiculous idea that Apocalypse is some uber telepath.

He isn't even a telepath.

How was this addressed again? It was portrayed as if Apoc psi bolted Xavier.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
The matter manipulation bullshit has also been debunked. He didn't turn Ozymandias to stone, Rama-Tut's technology - the knowledge contained within - did.

"The inhuman fury behind the boy's blow sends the General flying into Rama-Tut's unfathomably technology -- unleashing the hidden knowledge of millenia to come -- to deposit it into a receptacle too small and uncomprehending to contain it -- Ozymandias' blistering synapses."

This is what results in Ozymandias' transformation.

You tell me how Apocalypse managed to work that thing then. How does a primitive mutant manage to work Kang's technology? But it doesn't matter really. The mantis creature one was a better display of matter manip. The creature was telling Exodus what Apocalypse was telling him before, so yea. It was Apocalypse's doing.

Originally posted by Simbon
Tyrant is obviously misrepresenting Apoc's abilities in a lot of ways, but I think one point on which I think he is right is that we can't assume that speed (short of zoom levels) is going to be effective against him. Even if the speedsters he's beaten aren't as fast as Cheetah, he's done enough that it would be foolish to assume that she just kills him with speed; for instance, if we saw a character with energy absorbing abilities absorb blasts from cyclops, holocaust and magneto, would we just assume, in a forum match between this character and surfer, that "surfer is just so much more powerful than those other characters that he won't be able to absorb it"? When it comes to the most extreme levels (speed: zoom, strength: PC Valdius, energy: Galactus), I understand, but in this case I think we should give Apoc the benefit of the doubt.

Cheetah is faster than Quicksilver in combat? Ok, I want consistent scans to prove this.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
Cheetah is faster than Quicksilver in combat? Ok, I want consistent scans to prove this.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
You mean being as fast as Wonder Woman and fighting Flash didn't prove this to you?

Flash stole her speed at the end of Wonder Woman 214. Wonder Woman is consistently faster than Quicksilver in combat? Quicksilver constantly blitzes his opponents in combat, does Wonder Woman do those in combat on a consistent basis? I thought not.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
Flash stole her speed at the end of Wonder Woman 214. Wonder Woman is consistently faster than Quicksilver in combat? Quicksilver constantly blitzes his opponents in combat, does Wonder Woman do those in combat on a consistent basis? I thought not.

Come now, that's asinine even by your standards.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Just because Wonder Woman doesn't blitz every person she fights doesn't mean she lacks the ability.

Come now, that's asinine even by your standards.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
Cheetah is faster than Quicksilver in combat? Ok, I want consistent scans to prove this.

You replied to my post. And I said I want consistent scans of Cheetah blitzing. You have to provide the proof if you're going to reply to my post.

As I have said before, teleportation negates her speed even if it is truly superior to Poccy's(which isn't).

Originally posted by TheTyrant
You replied to my post. And I said I want consistent scans of Cheetah blitzing. You have to provide the proof if you're going to reply to my post.

As I have said before, teleportation negates her speed even if it is truly superior to Poccy's(which isn't).

Originally posted by Omega Vision
And I want consistent scans of Apoc teleporting in combat. One instance doesn't make a reliable forum tactic.

I'm gonna post them later when I get back.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
While you're at it isn't there some context behind Apoc's regeneration feat? I remember reading somewhere that he needs a vat of human organs to regenerate from.

The context is that he was severely weakened.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
How was this addressed again? It was portrayed as if Apoc psi bolted Xavier.

You tell me how Apocalypse managed to work that thing then. How does a primitive mutant manage to work Kang's technology? But it doesn't matter really. The mantis creature one was a better display of matter manip. The creature was telling Exodus what Apocalypse was telling him before, so yea. It was Apocalypse's doing.

He didn't need to work anything, Ozymandias was thrown into the machinery. Not matter manipulation.

The Scarab Beast rises out of the sand. Not matter manipulation.

So in summary,
Regarding telepathy:
1. Essentially no telepathic feats.
2. Unable to access the Astral Plane.
3. Not listed as a power in OHOTMU. (Magneto's limited telepathy is listed in his abilities)
4. Marvel Editor saying they've never indicated Apocalypse is a telepath.

Regarding matter manipulation: (lol)
1. No feats.
2. Not listed as a power in OHOTMU.
3. Lol.

Regarding this fight.
1. Comparing Quicksilver to Wonder Woman/Cheetah/Flash. Lol.

Come on now. There is no way that Cheetah can win, regardless of Apoc's questionable matter manip/TP powers.

Originally posted by galactusischere
Come on now. There is no way that Cheetah can win, regardless of Apoc's questionable matter manip/TP powers.

Originally posted by lightyeargee
Jay Garrick, who is slower and weaker than cheetah was able to use speed to combat Black Adam effectively. And BA beats Apoc soundly. So why can't a class 100, regenerating, magical claws that can slice through almost anything, that happen to also induce magical weakening poisons, and just happens to be so fast that not even WW's light speed reflexes could block her, defeat Apoc?

So? It's not like BA would utterly stomp Apoc(I would give him a 7-8/10 agaisnt Poccy). And as I said before, we should go by consistent feats. If Jay on a regular basis gets to fight and actually give BA trouble, then Teth isn't all that. Apocalypse can regenerate from goo and has a failry decent HF, how does Cheetah's magical claws hurt him?
Diana has FTL reflexes? I only know of one instance when she has reacted at FTL(the shattered gods).

As Tyrant said before, Flash did steal the extra speed which she had gained in 214.

IMO, Apoc would levitate and start blasting Cheetah from range. I can't see Cheetah taking any wins over him. She's only got speed on Apoxy lips, nothing else.

Edit- When did Apocalypse battle with Makarri? Was in in Eternals vol 4?

Originally posted by galactusischere
So? It's not like BA would utterly stomp Apoc(I would give him a 7-8/10 agaisnt Poccy). And as I said before, we should go by consistent feats. If Jay on a regular basis gets to fight and actually give BA trouble, then Teth isn't all that. Apocalypse can regenerate from goo and has a failry decent HF, how does Cheetah's magical claws hurt him?
Diana has FTL reflexes? I only know of one instance when she has reacted at FTL(the shattered gods).

As Tyrant said before, Flash did steal the extra speed which she had gained in 214.

IMO, Apoc would levitate and start blasting Cheetah from range. I can't see Cheetah taking any wins over him. She's only got speed on Apoxy lips, nothing else.

Edit- When did Apocalypse battle with Makarri? Was in in Eternals vol 4?