Ganondorf(tp) vs. Hylden Lord(BO2)

Originally posted by FinalAnswer
By the end of BO2, he was still weaker then he was at the end of BO, simply because he didn't have the spells he had in BO. BO spells > BO2 spells. Kain never got those spells back. So no, he wasn't really "back" at fullpower, he simply got newer, albeit weaker spells and I do believe got physically more capable, or something, and managed to defeat the Hylden Lord.

He managed to do so because he had Janos' help and got the reaver back.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
No, it is not theory, the reason Ganon in TP didn't remember the events of OoT is they [b]didn't happen in the TP timeline.

Ganon is factually the same guy in every game he's in, period.

Also, lol@castle busting, 'Dorf's a full on island buster who's frozen over entire cities on multiple occasions, and turned off the sun, and created a world wide storm, both with his power severely limmited.

So, whether or not you "allow" them, it's not theory. Also, Ganon still lolrapestomps the poor Hylden boy. [/B]

Different dorfs different timelines, sport. When you figure out what an alternate reality is get back to me.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He didn't use the spells since that game and the gameplay changed dramatically. I think he is more formidable with his reaver anyways. His strength and power levels were the same and he hasn't used the spells since then throughout soulreaver or any of the games so it's a moot point even if I were to give it to you.

He managed to do so because he had Janos' help and got the reaver back.

If that Dorf didn't experience the events it's an alternate Dorf. the fact you don't understand timelines is apparent to me. Wow. That's an alternate Dorf so only feats from this Dorf count for him just like I said.

Different dorfs different timelines, sport. When you figure out what an alternate reality is get back to me.

Nah, it's the same guy. This isn't a case of "alternate universes", it's a case of a legitimate split created /during/ that character's existance by events they took part in.

Link went back to before OoT happened and prevented it, but Ganondorf in the child timeline got the ToP anyway at the same time he touched it in the adult timeline. They're exactly the same.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He didn't use the spells since that game and the gameplay changed dramatically. I think he is more formidable with his reaver anyways. His strength and power levels were the same and he hasn't used the spells since then throughout soulreaver or any of the games so it's a moot point even if I were to give it to you.

He didn't use his spells because he was stated to having lost them. Ho mah COD, how many times do I have to tell you? Kain lost those powers, and NEVER was shown using them again, so why do you assume he regained them?

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Nah, it's the same guy. This isn't a case of "alternate universes", it's a case of a legitimate split created /during/ that character's existance by events they took part in.

Link went back to before OoT happened and prevented it, but Ganondorf in the child timeline got the ToP anyway at the same time he touched it in the adult timeline. They're exactly the same.

Listen Do not discuss other zeldas in this thread this dorf was ignorant to the master sword so it's another version who didn't experience the previous events in zelda's. That makes him different the only time it's the same character is when he experiences them all himself from game to game but this one didn't.

Originally posted by FinalAnswer
He didn't use his spells because [b]he was stated to having lost them. Ho mah COD, how many times do I have to tell you? Kain lost those powers, and NEVER was shown using them again, so why do you assume he regained them? [/B]

Kain wasn't weaker until he got beat, physically. he didn't have his spells but that doesn't make him weaker it makes him less formidable iyo.

Originally posted by quanchi112
If he didn't experience the events it's an alternate dorf. When timelines spread apart and diverge then each Dorf has his own separate experiences, memories, accomplishments from that point on.

Listen Do not discuss other zeldas in this thread this dorf was ignorant to the master sword so it's another version who didn't experience the previous events in zelda's. That makes him different the only time it's the same character is when he experiences them all himself from game to game but this one didn't.

The only part of their experiences that actually differentiate are
1. How they end up sealed evil in a can.
2. The world they escape into.
3. The height of the guy in green who puts them back.

^The only difference.

Besides which point, this is still Ganondorf in the beginning of his career. haermm He goes on to continue his reign of awesome in several more games.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Lol, both series contain time paradoxes, but the master sword can actually cause them. 😎

And I think Ganondorf wins as I know nothin about his opponent.

Originally posted by quanchi112
My point is they did this because they went away from this sort of thing in terms o fgameplay. In your mind ever since he lost his spells he was weaker so you feel bo Kain is greater than all other Kains.

Kain wasn't weaker until he got beat, physically. he didn't have his spells but that doesn't make him weaker it makes him less formidable iyo.

He's weaker because his BO spells are stronger then his BO2 spells. For example, Kain had no soul spells in BO2, as he did in BO. And not true, I believe Defiance Kain is prolly strongest.

He is overall weaker because he had weaker spells or his magic armors he had in BO. If he had those, I would consider BO2 equal, if not superior to BO1 Kain.

Less formidable? Kain is less dangerous in BO2 then he is in BO1. That is solid fact. He has less powers, and the powers he does have are weaker. He doesn't have any magic armor, and doesn't get the Soul Reaver until the end of the game.

Originally posted by FinalAnswer
He's weaker because his BO spells are stronger then his BO2 spells. For example, Kain had no soul spells in BO2, as he did in BO. And not true, I believe Defiance Kain is prolly strongest.

He is overall weaker because he had weaker spells or his magic armors he had in BO. If he had those, I would consider BO2 equal, if not superior to BO1 Kain.

Less formidable? Kain is less dangerous in BO2 then he is in BO1. That is solid fact. He has less powers, and the powers he does have are weaker. He doesn't have any magic armor, and doesn't get the Soul Reaver until the end of the game.

Kain didn't need to use any spells and was just as formidable as he always had been since his took up the soulreaver imo.

I disagree, he is wiser, stronger, and more experienced with his abilities than in bo1.

He has it at the beginning with his fight with Hylden and at the end when Janos distracts him long enough to get it.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
The only part of their experiences that actually differentiate are
1. How they end up sealed evil in a can.
2. The world they escape into.
3. The height of the guy in green who puts them back.

^The only difference.

Besides which point, this is still Ganondorf in the beginning of his career. haermm He goes on to continue his reign of awesome in several more games.

Originally posted by quanchi112
So you agree Kain wasn't weak just less formdiable so you just used the wrong word.

Kain didn't need to use any spells and was just as formidable as he always had been since his took up the soulreaver imo.

I disagree, he is wiser, stronger, and more experienced with his abilities than in bo1.

He has it at the beginning with his fight with Hylden and at the end when Janos distracts him long enough to get it.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/formidable

No. Kain is technically weaker at the end of BO2 then he is at the end of BO1

k

k.

That's essentially what I said. For 99.5% of BO2, he doesn't have the Reaver.

Originally posted by FinalAnswer
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/formidable

No. Kain is technically weaker at the end of BO2 then he is at the end of BO1

k

k.

That's essentially what I said. For 99.5% of BO2, he doesn't have the Reaver.

So you don't understand the word I take it?

He had the reaver both times he took on the Hylden Lord. He lost once and won once.

Originally posted by quanchi112
This dorf didn't experience them which makes him different than the Dorf who did. This is what makes an alternate reality.

But they have the exact same Triforce of Power. I know you've played the beginning of OoT at least, so you know how Ganondorf got the Triforce of Power. Remember how TP Ganondorf suddenly gained the Triforce of Power from nowhere? That happened as a result of OoT Ganondorf grabbing it in the other timeline. When OoT Ganonondorf got the Power, all of them did.

Both Ganondorfs have the same power source, and so they have the same powerset and abilities. OoT Ganondorf is drawing from Din, and TP Ganondorf is also drawing from Din. The Triforce of Power grants them the same powers.

He always had the connection to the power he just activated it when he needed to and did so twice. He failed once and succeeded once. Right after he succeeded despite his connections to the triforce he still got bfr'd out of hyrule until Zant decided to back him.

He didn't always have it. He gained it at the same moment OoT Ganondorf did. I have already explained to you why it failed the second time, which was the Master Sword.

Amy Hennig the series creator stated this

Link?

How can Kain survive without the Heart of Darkness?

Vampire powers? Demon realm shenanigans?

His nature as the Scion of Balance allows him to survive.

I'm sure Ariel would love to hear this.

Kain's role as the scion of balance makes him unique and that's why he remained alive and a vampire. Dorf needs an outside power source to remain formidable but like I said it takes time and what he actually did in this game wasn't that impressive.

Doubt that. Why does it matter that Ganondorf needs it again? Are you disallowing it? If not, it doesn't matter. Regardlee, no, it does not take time; everything he did was with the Triforce of Power.

I don't think he's fine and we saw him wounded by the sages and still defeated though not killed in any event with access to the triforce.

Are you just not reading my posts or something? I have told you multiple times that Ganondorf did not have the Triforce of Power when the Sages stabbed him. After he recieved it, the sword stopped hurting him. Why can't you accept that?

I think the result of her power and his destroyed the castle and anything we saw prior to or after was far less than castel destroying power from Dorf himself.

He blew up the castle and crushed Midna. Then he crushed the Fused Shadows to show how much more powerful than them he was.

Originally posted by The Scenario
But they have the exact same Triforce of Power. I know you've played the beginning of OoT at least, so you know how Ganondorf got the Triforce of Power. Remember how TP Ganondorf suddenly gained the Triforce of Power from nowhere? That happened as a result of OoT Ganondorf grabbing it in the other timeline. When OoT Ganonondorf got the Power, all of them did.

Both Ganondorfs have the same power source, and so they have the same powerset and abilities. OoT Ganondorf is drawing from Din, and TP Ganondorf is also drawing from Din. The Triforce of Power grants them the same powers.

He didn't always have it. He gained it at the same moment OoT Ganondorf did. I have already explained to you why it failed the second time, which was the Master Sword.

Link?

Vampire powers? Demon realm shenanigans?

I'm sure Ariel would love to hear this.

Doubt that. Why does it matter that Ganondorf needs it again? Are you disallowing it? If not, it doesn't matter. Regardlee, no, it does not take time; everything he did was with the Triforce of Power.

Are you just not reading my posts or something? I have told you multiple times that Ganondorf did not have the Triforce of Power when the Sages stabbed him. After he recieved it, the sword stopped hurting him. Why can't you accept that?

He blew up the castle and crushed Midna. Then he crushed the Fused Shadows to show how much more powerful than them he was.

I won't really read this until I beat it.

But he still had it against Link and like before only accessed it when he was beaten and needed to. He only accesses it when he needs to.

I copy and pasted her exact words when this question was addressed.

The heart is what gave him his vampiric powers.

Ariel is only the balance guardian not the scion of a balance. There's a huge difference.

No, I am not disallowing it but my point is Kain's more unique, his role, his powers, etc. than Dorf's whose greatest powers are dependent on an outside power source.

He accessed it and still had it against Link and only accessed it again when he was impaled again and was screwed without it.

Speculation.

That "outside source" is an integral part of who Ganondorf is. He is Din's avatar of Power; the one person who most represents this attribute. Pre-ToP Ganondorf is formidable with his death curses and all, but Post-ToP is nigh unstoppable save the Triforce-countering Master Sword.

Originally posted by LLLLLink
That "outside source" is an integral part of who Ganondorf is. He is Din's avatar of Power; the one person who most represents this attribute. Pre-ToP Ganondorf is formidable with his death curses and all, but Post-ToP is nigh unstoppable save the Triforce-countering Master Sword.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I get that and never want to take it away from him as he is usually connected with it probably in every game. I just feel the time he needed in this game to access the power from it would cost him in a forum fight.

Well, most of the Triforce's powers are passive abilities that do not require activating. For example, conditional immortality, exponentially increased power, cosmic awareness, etc. Power that are "activated" are mostly ones that deal with transformation.

Originally posted by LLLLLink
Well, most of the Triforce's powers are passive abilities that do not require activating. For example, conditional immortality, exponentially increased power, cosmic awareness, etc. Power that are "activated" are mostly ones that deal with transformation.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I understand most abilities naturally don't need to be activated but the ones in tp to increase his power and for him to recover did take time.

Yeah, but I feel like it was only because it was being cut on for the first time, you know?

Originally posted by NemeBro
No it isn't, it is a portion of the power of three deities who themselves are not omnipotent.

Stop debating. You are so shitty at it that you make the entire Zelda argument look atrocious.

Also, BT, what is this teleport bullshit? No only has Ganondorf shown to be faster than the Lord, but he also has teleportation.

Ganondorf is at least as strong as TP Link, whose strength feats rape anything in LoK, except maybe the Elder God's whole body's strength, whom I would give the benefit of the doubt only due to its supposed size (You say continental, right?).

Ganondorf destroyed his entire castle in TP. Bring up a feat of destruction from the Lord to compare.

As for the Master Sword vs. Reaver argument, its a stupid argument, the Master Sword is much better at what it DOES, destroying and repelling evil power, but the Reaver is far more versatile. Also BT, the Master Sword can in fact protect the wielder from evil magic, it did so in aLttP for instance, protected him from transmutation.

That does not make the Sarafan lords teleport useless.

Based on what? not that I think TP link is strong but other than that what basis is there that Ganondorf is as strong as him? because he fought him? continental at least, some quotes imply planetary.

The Sarafan lord has not destroyed anything of that size iirc, although his base collapsed and was destroyed after he died, not sure if that was anything to do with his death or just the destruction of the hylden portal though. Not sure thats hardly a useful statement though, as the form in which Ganondorf apprently destroyed his castle would be useless in an actual fight.

It can reverse/protect transformation and shoot some light beams, as far as I have seen its not much more useful than that other than having its games equivalent of +10 damage to evil.

And for all this time paradox crap, the Soul reaver can only be harmed by the paradox of destroying itself, in which case it was destroyed. This is something LoZ can never repeat, I dont think its timeline is immutable like the LoK one either.