Silver Surfer the best Herald? Explain how he wins each Battle in detail

Originally posted by biensalsa
Also if Superman can IONIZE air He also can Ionize bodies. In the end IONIZATION is done at molecular level.

Ionization is the physical process of converting an atom or molecule into an ion by adding or removing charged particles such as electrons or other ions.

http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/ionization

but is a big step. You guys are saying that ionization COULD work
Iwonder if it was the scan of Reed using a ion disruptor to depower galactus, what changed your mind

Ionization is the physical process of converting an atom or molecule into an ion by adding or removing charged particles such as electrons or other ions.

The electron is what charages the particle. and an abundance of or a lack of electrons is what causes ionization.

I imagine that it was simply a buzz word used at the time. As an Ionizer is something that the common person can buy these days.

Here's one for 10 bucks:
http://www.amazon.com/Wagan-EL2022-Ionic-Air-Purifier/dp/B0009PSJ22/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=home-garden&qid=1282606745&sr=8-1

What they do is saturate the air with electrons to negatively charge the air so that free floating particles and bacteria are drawn to it.

I seriously doubt that you could defeat surfer with a $10 gadget from amazon.com

Originally posted by Creshosk
It's funny how you can argue for a point yet still say something that sheds doubt on knowledge of what your'e talking about.

The electron is what charages the particle. and an abundance of or a lack of electrons is what causes ionization.

I imagine that it was simply a buzz word used at the time. As an Ionizer is something that the common person can buy these days.

Here's one for 10 bucks:
http://www.amazon.com/Wagan-EL2022-Ionic-Air-Purifier/dp/B0009PSJ22/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=home-garden&qid=1282606745&sr=8-1

What they do is saturate the air with electrons to negatively charge the air so that free floating particles and bacteria are drawn to it.

I seriously doubt that you could defeat surfer with a $10 gadget from amazon.com

😂 We are talking about comics here?

Ok in the REAL WORLD Superman will not be able to Ionize Surfer, neither Reed Richards will be able to depower Galactus.

On the REAL WORLD Galactus would have devour earth since FF 50

Originally posted by biensalsa
😂

"You channel it true, you control it. but you no more possess it than a spigot (fawcet) possesses the water that flows through"

This scan is the odd one standing out, not the other way arround. SS can be depowered if he is cut off from ambient energy and exhausts his reserves. He can also be depowered if the PC (the power that lets him absorb adn control energy) is sucked out of him partially or completelly - as several have done noting the power is within him - or if he is kept from consciently using it by tech that screws with his organism's functioning. If it was simply a matter of draining the PC which you seem to think is just spread out over the cosmos just like the common energies SS feeds on, Doom wouldn't have drained the SS himself, just built an antenna to harvest it.

Besides, we've seen him use his powers when cut off from any energy source arround, like the fight with red shift and others.

Yes and According to theory Superman should not be able to survive inside a double black hole or hold a mini black hole in his hand.
Because the solar energy will get drain out of him. DOES THAT MEANS SUPERMAN PRODUCES HIS OWN SOLAR ENERGY 😂

If you concede that Superman produces his own solar energy then I concede SS produces his own PC 😄

PSEUDO-SCIENCE-FANTASY [/B]

What? It makes no sense that a black hole would suck the energy out of SM's body, he doesn't have sunlight inside him anymore than a tree does.

Originally posted by biensalsa
😂 We are talking about comics here?

Ok in the REAL WORLD Superman will not be able to Ionize Surfer, neither Reed Richards will be able to depower Galactus.

On the REAL WORLD Galactus would have devour earth since FF 50

Like I said it was buzzword speak and the authors didn't really know how Reed did it.

Which of course means it wasn't done the way you think it was, which means that you cannot argue that Superman would know how and or be able to.

Originally posted by biensalsa
According to your scan (Annihilation) PC attaches to the soul

If that is true, the SS can produce his own power, then EXPLAIN why he was depowered fighting Black Panther in 2007? Why he got depowered vs RULK? Do you have any idea how stupid that sounds?

Originally posted by Ambient
It however does not contradict like you've tried to point out, its still within the explanation given in the annihilation scan..

here ill post it again..

http://img651.imageshack.us/f/annihilation3011.jpg/

ambient energies is stored within his (Surfer) aura/soul then is converted into pc, this aura then continuously feeds his body for function.. Now the body is still susceptible to outside source of manipulation as you pointed out in all those scan. like say; energy absorption (not absorbing his soul but rather the energies within his body that his Aura/soul supply from the absorbed pc and since it cont. supply this energies, he can be fully drained. It also is apparent that this energies if transfered can reanimate or enhance a being with similar abilities as him as you kindly showed us in your scan..) So if one can manipulate both then he can be depowered this way..

And no SS does not produce his own power, he needs to tap into the ambient energies of the universe and stores it, all thought he is capable of manipulating it directly..

Originally posted by biensalsa
If He creates his own PC, when someone steals his energy, why He does not produces more? Why He does not produces more and overloads any machine trying to steal his energy if the PC is infinite?

No matter of the syphoning is biological, IF the PC is from the soul, then He will produce more until it overloads the Syphon.

Reed Richards removed the PC from Jhonny Storm. He did not died.

ANNIHILATION explination COULD ONLY WORK FOR ENERGY BEINGS LIKE GALACTUS.

He can overload a machine his done it however if the machine has far more storing powers than himself and his low in PC then obviously he would be unable to overload it and drained himself in the process..

And in regards Reed Richards machine, well i quess he found a loop hole and is able to separate pc and life force but it does not necessarily mean anyone could accomplish similar feats..

Nope it basically incl. the heralds as well..

Originally posted by biensalsa
😂

"You channel it true, you control it. but you no more possess it than a spigot (fawcet) possesses the water that flows through..

Yes and According to theory Superman should not be able to survive inside a double black hole or hold a mini black hole in his hand.
Because the solar energy will get drain out of him. DOES THAT MEANS SUPERMAN PRODUCES HIS OWN SOLAR ENERGY 😂

If you concede that Superman produces his own solar energy then I concede SS produces his own PC 😄

PSEUDO-SCIENCE-FANTASY

Roman (i think) was mainly pointing out Surfers powers, " the power cosmic and he goes on the faucet analogy of surfers powers.. Then blasted Surfer with an energy that causes an out pour of his own energies. It did not mention of ambient energies or any outside source of energies. So im at a loss confused1 here..

Did we say Superman or Surfer produce they're own energies? You are quite confusing..

I think the problem is that he keeps conflating ambient cosmic energy - SS's food - with the Power Cosmic.

Comparing it to SM, his powerset was once explained as a biolectrical aura that absorbs radiation from the sun, processes it and gives him his powers: a force field enveloping his cells, hv, etc.

Think of the PC within SS as the aura or the power that creates it and of the energies he absorbs and controls as yellow sunlight. That's it. The PC isn't an external powersource, the energy he needs to fuels his powers and live are.

Still, no matter how you look at it, HV won't depower him.

Simple aint it.. That is basically the simplest explanation ever.. His got to understand it.. lol i think..

Originally posted by biensalsa
A fraction of his power allright, but where it was stated that he was less durable than before.

As far as I remember SS power Galactus removed ONLY his space time powers, where does it says He also removed or decresed his invulnerability powers? As fas as I remember, during all the time He was "depowered" He always claimed that He can survive inside a sun. So his invulnerability was intact

Originally posted by 753
This scan is the odd one standing out, not the other way arround. SS can be depowered if he is cut off from ambient energy and exhausts his reserves. He can also be depowered if the PC (the power that lets him absorb adn control energy) is sucked out of him partially or completelly - as several have done noting the power is within him - or if he is kept from consciently using it by tech that screws with his organism's functioning. If it was simply a matter of draining the PC which you seem to think is just spread out over the cosmos just like the common energies SS feeds on, Doom wouldn't have drained the SS himself, just built an antenna to harvest it.

First you said or someone said that SS cannot bebe depowered because he has the PC inside. Then A BUNCH of SS campers show with a scan of SS saying that He cannot get rid of the PC and another one that says the power comes from inside. Can you guys get it straight? Didn't you said the ambient energy is one thing and the PC another? You said PC is used to gather AE. So now you are saying that PC is stored in his body, but if for some reason he has to use energy the reserve of stored will get lower in order for him to replendish that energy lost he has to gather AE? Now you are saying that He can get depowered, well of course after so many scans you should. And what you are saying is basically the same as "the odd" scan. He does not produces PC "SS can be depowered if he is cut off from ambient energy and exhausts his reserves."

"If it was simply a matter of draining the PC which you seem to think is just spread out over the cosmos just like the common energies SS feeds on, Doom wouldn't have drained the SS himself, just built an antenna to harvest it. "

Well is a double standard. If I remember correctly isn't PC one of the froms of currency in Dynamo city? I do not believe is just there to harvest per say, but Who is the one responsable for so many Heralds flying arround? Galactus. The PC is Galactus and is believed that Galactus is the actual source of PC at least for his heralds. This again as anything regarding PC is inconsistent as well.
Galactus as the source can give an take away the PC. Because the power is not the heralds power but Galactus.

Originally posted by 753
Besides, we've seen him use his powers when cut off from any energy source arround, like the fight with red shift and others.

Yes and that PC will be the reserves, what is stored between the pipe and the faucet

Originally posted by 753
What? It makes no sense that a black hole would suck the energy out of SM's body, he doesn't have sunlight inside him anymore than a tree does.

SM will be in the same position in a black hole. He will be running on reserves.

At this point it seems We agree that SS does not produce his own power, like many tried to show here before, therefore SS can be drained.

Originally posted by Creshosk
You linked to medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com to explain what ionization was. Since you wanted to use real world terms I thought I should explain further since you mentioned "adding other ions" to ionize atoms or molecules.. which could very well de-ionize the given particle instead via electron pair bonding such as is found when bonding two hydrogen atoms to a single oxygen atom. All the ions become rather stable.

Like I said it was buzzword speak and the authors didn't really know how Reed did it.

Which of course means it wasn't done the way you think it was, which means that you cannot argue that Superman would know how and or be able to.

Well then BASIC terms are used in comic science, the link provided was just to give a BASIC explination of what Ionization is.

And Superman could analyze every single energy field and realize how SS powers work.

Ions and electromagnetism is a term very related to PC there is at least TWO instances in which IONS have been mentioned into restoring or removing PC from Terrax to Galactus.

I don't care how much you disagree with it, but it has been shown in comics.

I think Red solar energy is stupid to depower Superman.

SS should not have senses because he does not has internal organs but yet he can be defeated by using a synaptics disruptor, you see where this is going?

Originally posted by Ambient
OY! Read my freakin previous post man or 753 post, it couldn't get anymore simplier than that. ill quote it again for you..

The device sucessfull drained surfer of all his stored pc +++ PIS was written all over that issue, don't even get me started on that armbar..
Similar with Rulk dough it is from a Surfer whose just become a herald w/ no previous knowledge of the use of PC..

I will call your scan of the Doombot armbar

Originally posted by Ambient
And no SS does not produce his own power, he needs to tap into the ambient energies of the universe and stores it, all thought he is capable of manipulating it directly..

Again he does not create his own energies, he eats ambient energies just like we eat food for nourishment but instead of storing it in his bodies like us he store it in his aura/soul..

That was not the impresion other people gave here. They basically said that SS getting depowered it was pretty much PIS and show scans of him getting power after being drained

Originally posted by Ambient
He can overload a machine his done it however if the machine has far more storing powers than himself and his low in PC then obviously he would be unable to overload it and drained himself in the process..

Again, here a lot of people implied that because SS cosmic power taps into infinte sources He cannot be depowered. Seem We are agreeing somehow. But I have not seeing an overload

Originally posted by Ambient
And in regards Reed Richards machine, well i quess he found a loop hole and is able to separate pc and life force but it does not necessarily mean anyone could accomplish similar feats..

There is another "loop" regarding IONS actually with PC there is a lot of "loops"

Originally posted by Ambient
Roman (i think) was mainly pointing out Surfers powers, " the power cosmic and he goes on the faucet analogy of surfers powers.. Then blasted Surfer with an energy that causes an out pour of his own energies. It did not mention of ambient energies or any outside source of energies. So im at a loss confused1 here..

It says clearly YOU DO NOT POSSES THE PC. You control it and manipulate, but do not possess it. Then He unregulates his PC FLOW to show that He does not posses it, to show that He merely controls it and manipulate. If he were the creator of his PC he should just shut it down and end of the fight.

Originally posted by Ambient
Did we say Superman or Surfer produce they're own energies? You are quite confusing..

Somebody DID SAY THAT SS CREATES HIS OWN PC. That was the whole argument

Originally posted by darthgoober
His silver coating is actually solidfied cosmic energy, what do you think's going to happen to it when the Surfer has less energy avalible than normal?

You are really reaching this one.

Anyhow SS physical invulnerability is not his forte in physical fights and I actually believe the brick is kind of stupid. At least the Meteorite hit him with more force. I also recall another time in which He was KOed by another Meteorite.

Yes the PC is connected to his invulnerability. but he is not completelly invulnerable or not at least like Stan Lee said in the scan. He is being hurted by Electricity and Lasers and I actually have seen PC wielders getting hurt by fire/heat. NON PC FIRE that is.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Submersing Superman in the dark isn't going to instantly strip him of Kryptonian powers anymore than submersing Silver Surfer in superheat would. This isn't hard to see.

And trying to characterize Surfer as if he were like Pyro instead of like Human Torch doesn't make it any harder, except for you apparently.

He is more Pyro than Human torch, he does not create PC

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ For the sake of argument, why would Surfer need to revert the ionization of molecules? All Superman's done is stopped him from replenishing the Power Cosmic via his automatic ambient energy absorption process by surrounding him with ionized molecules.

Surfer then proceeds to fly away from the ionized molecules surrounding him and/or Surfer stands still and uses an omniblast to repel all the ionized molecules away from his body and/or Surfer absorbs the heat vision and/or Surfer absorbs Superman's yellow sunlight and/or Surfer turns him into a newt.

Only one of these above scenarios is questionable. And that's taking your assertions for granted. Which don't make sense in, and of, themselves.

The molecules in his body are Ionized. I don't know if his omniblast will repell his own molecules.

He could absorb SM HV I am aware of that, depending on the ammount of heat Superman delivers. because I have seem PC wielders get hurt with non pc heat.

SS absorbs Superman's yellow sun light? I just wonder the ammount of stress in a fight vs SS

Surfer turns him into a newt?

What is SS? Mr Mxyptlk? Are you aware that SM has resisted MAGICAL transmutation on a demons realm? and Darkseids Omega effect wich is transmutation. Good luck with the newt argument.

Originally posted by biensalsa
You are really reaching this one.

Anyhow SS physical invulnerability is not his forte in physical fights and I actually believe the brick is kind of stupid. At least the Meteorite hit him with more force. I also recall another time in which He was KOed by another Meteorite.

Yes the PC is connected to his invulnerability. but he is not completelly invulnerable or not at least like Stan Lee said in the scan. He is being hurted by Electricity and Lasers and I actually have seen PC wielders getting hurt by fire/heat. NON PC FIRE that is.

What other time are you refering to?

I didn't say he was completely invulnerable to heat, I said he was pretty much. I'm still curious as to these instances of PC users being hurt by fire though, so what instances are you talking about?

Someone said that GL Alan Scott w/ Starheart is now 100x more powerful than he was.

That means he's leagues stronger than Silver Surfer, bordering between Herald level to Trans-Skyfather level

Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
Someone said that GL Alan Scott w/ Starheart is now 100x more powerful than he was.

That means he's leagues stronger than Silver Surfer, bordering between Herald level to Trans-Skyfather level

Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
Someone said that GL Alan Scott w/ Starheart is now 100x more powerful than he was.

That means he's leagues stronger than Silver Surfer, bordering between Herald level to Trans-Skyfather level

Originally posted by biensalsa
First you said or someone said that SS cannot bebe depowered because he has the PC inside. Then A BUNCH of SS campers show with a scan of SS saying that He cannot get rid of the PC and another one that says the power comes from inside. Can you guys get it straight? Didn't you said the ambient energy is one thing and the PC another? You said PC is used to gather AE. So now you are saying that PC is stored in his body, but if for some reason he has to use energy the reserve of stored will get lower in order for him to replendish that energy lost he has to gather AE? Now you are saying that He can get depowered, well of course after so many scans you should. And what you are saying is basically the same as "the odd" scan. He does not produces PC "SS can be depowered if he is cut off from ambient energy and exhausts his reserves."

"If it was simply a matter of draining the PC which you seem to think is just spread out over the cosmos just like the common energies SS feeds on, Doom wouldn't have drained the SS himself, just built an antenna to harvest it. "

Well is a double standard. If I remember correctly isn't PC one of the froms of currency in Dynamo city? I do not believe is just there to harvest per say, but Who is the one responsable for so many Heralds flying arround? Galactus. The PC is Galactus and is believed that Galactus is the actual source of PC at least for his heralds. This again as anything regarding PC is inconsistent as well.
Galactus as the source can give an take away the PC. Because the power is not the heralds power but Galactus.

Yes and that PC will be the reserves, what is stored between the pipe and the faucet

SM will be in the same position in a black hole. He will be running on reserves.

At this point it seems We agree that SS does not produce his own power, like many tried to show here before, therefore SS can be drained.

I think you've misrepresented my posts. From my first one I said that the PC is his superpower and the ambient energy is his food/fuel. The PC is inside him and allows him to manipulate and absorb energy, but he doesn't create energy, I never said he could that. He needs to tap into outside fuel sources to replenish himself, but those aren't the PC, the PC is more like SM's bioelectric aura as far as SS is concerned. The PC itself might be taken away from him by obscure technological ways, but even if HV could cut him off from ambient energy it wouldnt strip him of the PC.

Point remains that out of all the possible ways SS could be functionally depowered, HV could only conceivably acomplish one: cut him off and let him eventually starve.

Now, I don't think an ion field could cut him off from ambient energy and mass, as there's nothing to indicate this in his history, but if it could: he can simply convert matter to energy at will and absorb it (that's how he 'eats'😉 so he can do this to the ions; he can just transmute the ions; if HV is used on his body he can just tank, redirect or absorb it and he has subatomic control of his own body to stopping the ionization.

His power reserves are vast and we've already seen him handling ion wonderman and tank hotter than star plasma just fine.

@ Biensalsa:
1.) I will call your scan of the Doombot armbar

It says clearly YOU DO NOT POSSES THE PC. You control it and manipulate, but do not possess it. Then He unregulates his PC FLOW to show that He does not posses it, to show that He merely controls it and manipulate. If he were the creator of his PC he should just shut it down and end of the fight.

- lol's.. Your basing this on one single scan that the char. word is not even fully sure off. "Possesses, I think not " ronan's own words, which in its own right can be called out into question the reliability of that statement..

Here! Check this scans (not just one but few) and it states that the heralds is imbued and possesses the power cosmic.. Heck even Galactus himself made similar statement..

http://img235.imageshack.us/f/redshiftoz0.jpg/
http://img225.imageshack.us/f/airwalkeren9.jpg/
http://img74.imageshack.us/f/firelordax8.jpg/
http://img95.imageshack.us/f/terraxxl5.jpg/

Well you could say his possession of it was overiden.

2.)That was not the impresion other people gave here. They basically said that SS getting depowered it was pretty much PIS and show scans of him getting power after being drained

- I think the problem lies in the way you emplied his depowerement and that is by used of ionic energies to which you pretty much strongly fended w/ out much proof.. We even presented proof how ionic energies would not work by way of this scan.. http://img234.imageshack.us/i/1cu9.jpg/ Surfer energy manipulation working on a ionic field yet persisted you did..

3.)Somebody DID SAY THAT SS CREATES HIS OWN PC. That was the whole argument

- PC is the power, the ambient energies he absorbs is what fuel this power.