Kas'im vs Anakin and Windu

Galan007
a.) Why are you clinging to an event that was supposedly mentioned in the script?

Because the script is G-canon unless directly contradicted by the movie?

Galan007
If the scene you're mentioning wasn't shown in the film or depicted in the novel, then why am I to assume it happened at all?

Because the script is no less canon than the novelization?

Galan007
b.) I never said that Mace could capitalize on any force attack. All I'm saying is based on the speeds in which they were battling, it's unlikely that Palpatine would have had enough time to conjure a force attack without being flayed by Mace in the process... Unless he can react by the nanosecond as you said. If so, I'm really curious to know where that factoid came from.

But he did conjure a Force attack, according to the G-canon script. 😐

Galan007
I posted the exact definition of "overpower." You twisted it to fit your argument. I refuse to argue a 'point' I feel is skewed. Endastory. 🙂

In no way did I contradict that definition, but I accept your concession nonetheless.

Originally posted by Gideon
I said I'd take you off ignore. I never said I'd respond. I'm infuriatingly clever that way.

But you just did. 😉

Yeah, avoiding having to respond to my arguments is super clever of you. Reminds me of dadudemon.

http://www.imsdb.com/scripts/Star-Wars-Revenge-of-the-Sith.html

^ Script, btw.

HWKN
But you just did. 😉

But I never said I wouldn't, either. 😉

HWKN
Yeah, avoiding having to respond to my arguments is super clever of you. Reminds me of dadudemon.

All of the points you raised were addressed in their entirety by me in the other thread.

When it comes to military and combat matters, he's really not. In addition to curbstomping the Separatists on Geonosis

You mean the battle in which two sides ran at each other firing their guns with no indication of strategy? The battle in which he participated in for all of a minute before going after Dooku? Obviously his plans where so great that they could be pulled off without him even present.

Kashyyyk,

In which the Wookies run out of cover wearing loinclothes towards the heavily armoured tanks. I'm still not convinced.

the New Essential Chronology outright says that Yoda's expertise in warfare was such that Palpatine tried to keep him far from the frontlines (though I never understood if that was to utilize his abilities or to keep them from swinging the tide too heavily in favor of the Republic).

Pics or it didn't happen.

Well, to be fair, both of those did work in the end.

Through luck and CIS. Heck, Yoda didn't even think to warn Luke, 'Oh yeah, don't be an idiot and chuck your saber away in front of the man who can shoot lightning from his thumbs. Whoops, did I forget to tell you that he can do that. Well obviously that would have taken all of 20 seconds.' And don't say he had no time becuase he's a Force Ghost after that, times all he has.

Yoda's inability to stop Palpatine in the PT was the result of his strategic and political inferiority, not any deficit in military or combat tactics. In fact, Yoda's demonstrated greater skill as a soldier or general than he ever has as a Grand Master.

Nah, Yoda was outfought strategically. From the moment that he went and got the army that had obviously been set up just for that purpose by the Sith.

Anyway, back to the original point, Yoda does have this nasty trait of having the killing instinct of a gnat. And he and Sidious act incredibly stupid during their fight. Like when he reacts with shock when Sidious *gasp* attacks him! With the signiture move of the Sith no less, which he can deflect. Does he defend himself? No, he just gasps alittle and gets slammed into a wall. Then Sidious makes no move to attack him while he unconscious. 😐 Then Yoda attacks and knocks him on his ass. .....Which he completely fails to capitalise on. Heres a hint Yoda, don't let the most powerful being alive back up and let him prepare to fight you after you've knocked him on his ass when the universe in on the line. Why not instead actually try to win. 😐

It really wouldn't surprise me if he did let him go.

Also, DS, you're arguments made me lol.

hmm, looks like I taught Gideon well.

To be fair to HWKN, his Stealth X argument had merit.

Not really sure why this is still argued. It's fairly obvious Sidious wasn't giving his all. It is equally obvious that he was still overpowered. That should be the end of it.

N
You mean the battle in which two sides ran at each other firing their guns with no indication of strategy? The battle in which he participated in for all of a minute before going after Dooku? Obviously his plans where so great that they could be pulled off without him even present.

N
In which the Wookies run out of cover wearing loinclothes towards the heavily armoured tanks. I'm still not convinced.

Quite frankly, I'm not particularly interested in going down this road, since I know exactly where you'd like to take it. If you're a literalist or fundamentalist to the extreme, then yes, there were no complex strategies or tactics involved in the Battles of Geonosis and Kashyyyk, stormtroopers really are terrible marksmen, Windu's posse really can't fight, Vader really couldn't overpower a ~70 year old man seemingly bereft of any particular Force related qualities, Imperial technology is inferior to Republic/Separatist technology, and the Republic, Separatist, Imperial, and Rebel navies all number in the dozens, since, well, that's the only amount we saw.

N
Pics or it didn't happen.

"At the Battle of Geonosis, Master Yoda had proven himself a superior battlefield commander. Since then, Chancellor Palpatine had requested that the centuries-old sage be kept far from the front lines." -- the New Essential Chronology, page 61.

N
Through luck and CIS. Heck, Yoda didn't even think to warn Luke, 'Oh yeah, don't be an idiot and chuck your saber away in front of the man who can shoot lightning from his thumbs. Whoops, did I forget to tell you that he can do that. Well obviously that would have taken all of 20 seconds.' And don't say he had no time becuase he's a Force Ghost after that, times all he has.

I'm not certain what this has to do with Yoda's abilities as a tactician or a fighter, but all I'll say is that Yoda did warn Captain Dumbass not to underestimate Palpatine's powers.

N
Nah, Yoda was outfought strategically.

I... know. 😐

N
Anyway, back to the original point, Yoda does have this nasty trait of having the killing instinct of a gnat. And he and Sidious act incredibly stupid during their fight. Like when he reacts with shock when Sidious *gasp* attacks him! With the signiture move of the Sith no less, which he can deflect. Does he defend himself? No, he just gasps alittle and gets slammed into a wall. Then Sidious makes no move to attack him while he unconscious. 😐 Then Yoda attacks and knocks him on his ass. .....Which he completely fails to capitalise on. Heres a hint Yoda, don't let the most powerful being alive back up and let him prepare to fight you after you've knocked him on his ass when the universe in on the line. Why not instead actually try to win. 😐

It really wouldn't surprise me if he did let him go.

😐

😐

Originally posted by Gideon
http://www.imsdb.com/scripts/Star-Wars-Revenge-of-the-Sith.html

^ Script, btw.

"Jedi Master MACE WINDU and the Sith Lord fight their way down the hallway and into the main office area. PALPATINE is able to use the Force to slam MACE against the wall, but he recovers before the Chancellor can cut him down.

ANAKIN lands his speeder, jumps out, and runs down a long corridor toward the Chancellor's office."

As you can see, the script has Palpatine preforming the alleged force push before the scene cuts to Anakin arriving in his speeder (which never happened.) So yeah, it was cut from the film, therefore I even more thoroughly question it's canonicity.

Nah. As long as it doesn't contradict the film it's canon. And it doesn't contradict the film.

Except that it does.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Except that it does.

Originally posted by ares834
Nah. As long as it doesn't contradict the film it's canon. And it doesn't cntradict the film.

The RotS DVD also has a deleted scene in which GG kills Shaak-Ti. Is that canon too?

The placement of the event in question contradicts the movie, but the action itself does not. For example, if the movie depicted Palpatine trying to shove Windu with the Force and Mace resisting, then it would contradict the movie.

How?

We see them fight through that hallway all the way to the end and out into the office and not once is, 'PALPATINE able to use the Force to slam MACE against the wall, but he recovers before the Chancellor can cut him down.'

Originally posted by Nephthys
We see them fight through that hallway all the way to the end and out into the office and not once is, 'PALPATINE able to use the Force to slam MACE against the wall, but he recovers before the Chancellor can cut him down.'

For comparison, my issue with the whole Yoda-vs.-Sidious-disarming-thingy is not that Palpatine was disarmed. I can very easily accept that Yoda disarmed the Emperor and have no issue with that particular point; that does not contradict the movie or the novelization. What does is how the disarmament was done and Yoda's subsequent decision to flee when he was in a position of dominance.

Originally posted by Gideon
But I never said I wouldn't, either. 😉

Oh. Darn!

All of the points you raised were addressed in their entirety by me in the other thread.

OMG this is almost exactly what dadudemon, who thinks that Twilight vampires could solo the Jedi Order, says to all of my arguments.

Oh, and you didn't counter the Stealth X argument; by that time you already had me on ignore.