Originally posted by Gideon
For comparison, my issue with the whole Yoda-vs.-Sidious-disarming-thingy is not that Palpatine was disarmed. I can very easily accept that Yoda disarmed the Emperor and have no issue with that particular point; that does not contradict the movie or the novelization. What does is how the disarmament was done and Yoda's subsequent decision to flee when he was in a position of dominance.
However, just because you don't think it fits doesn't mean it is wrong. Your opinion of what fits SHOULD be shaped by the source material available. This is source material. It is canon. It means we need to re-evaluate the conclusions we have drawn based on other canon that is available, not declare this canon event to be non-canon.
The script doesn't say Yoda tried to flee. It says he jumped to a lower pod. We have no idea WHY he did that, and since other source materials say he is trying to kill Sidious, we can only assume he leaped to that smaller pod as part of his effort to kill Sidious. It is a terrible move, in retrospect, but terrible moves are NOT non-canon.
TJ
It is a terrible move, in retrospect, but terrible moves are NOT non-canon.
I'm afraid not. Yoda's stated intention was to destroy Palpatine, not release him, not toy with him. We've already established that Yoda was a capable military and combat tactician and thus there would be absolutely no reason to abandon a moment of opportunity unless Yoda were in immediate mortal danger. Since the screenplay clearly indicates that he wasn't (Palpatine was disarmed and his lightning was being repulsed), I'm afraid the screenplay does indeed contradict the movie (probably why it wasn't shown in the movie itself) and is, therefore, non-canon.
A;lrjgrt;ihjtdy
plot holes =\= non canon though. just because we have no idea why he fell back doesnt mean there isnt one
What else could it be? Did he slip, perhaps? Please, the script was detailed enough to explain Yoda's actions and the fact that Palpatine was disarmed and being utterly overwhelmed in the duel, and you expect me to believe the script them omits an extremely important detail as to why Yoda withdrew?
I ain't buyin' it. He clearly didn't lose the upper hand, otherwise the script would have explained it as such. Anything else would simply contradict the movie.
Originally posted by Gideon
I'm afraid not. Yoda's stated intention was to destroy Palpatine, not release him, not toy with him. We've already established that Yoda was a capable military and combat tactician and thus there would be absolutely no reason to abandon a moment of opportunity unless Yoda were in immediate mortal danger. Since the screenplay clearly indicates that he wasn't (Palpatine was disarmed and his lightning was being repulsed), I'm afraid the screenplay does indeed contradict the movie (probably why it wasn't shown in the movie itself) and is, therefore, non-canon.
Your opinion is that Yoda's stated intentions doesn't match his goals. I disagree. He was still trying to kill Sidious, he just did it wrong.You keep trying to say he abandoned his moment of opportunity, or he ran away. That simply isn't the case. That isn't what the script says. If it DID you would have a point. It merely says he jumps to a different pod. that could be for any reason.
there must be another explanation of why he jumped to the pod, and assuming that something that is canon is noncanon to fit your explanation of it is reaching a bit.
Vorpal
Couldn't it just have been a mistake? Yoda isn't perfect.
While I certainly accept the fact that Yoda isn't perfect, what sort of mistake are you suggesting? I could even accept something so extraordinarily lame as "MASTER YODA moves to deliver the final blow to the Sith Lord but slips on a BANANA PEEL and plummets to a lower pod", but the script is really quite clear: Yoda just decided to abandon his position of dominance.
...Which, given the circumstances and stakes, opens up the possibility for Yoda being a contender for the Biggest Retard Ever.
But I don't think he's retarded.
TJ
Your opinion is that Yoda's stated intentions doesn't match his goals. I disagree. He was still trying to kill Sidious, he just did it wrong.You keep trying to say he abandoned his moment of opportunity, or he ran away. That simply isn't the case. That isn't what the script says. If it DID you would have a point. It merely says he jumps to a different pod. that could be for any reason.there must be another explanation of why he jumped to the pod, and assuming that something that is canon is noncanon to fit your explanation of it is reaching a bit.
😐
Wait, wait, wait. Wait a minute. So let me get this straight. You're telling me that Yoda's actions (abandoning a position in which he was absolutely and utterly dominating his greatest enemy) do not contradict his stated intention/goal ("DESTROY the Sith, we must!"😉, but is, in fact, an attempt to execute that goal?
I'll need a while to wrap my head around that one. That's kind of like telling me that a firefighter who voluntarily allows a fire to burn down a house or a policeman who intentionally allows a criminal to escape for no reason are doing their jobs perfectly, they just made a tiny little error in judgment.
Let's hope the fate of the universe never rests in your hands, TJ.
My stance is thus:
1.) I accept (and have no problem with) the notion that Palpatine was disarmed. However,
2.) That segment of the script is clearly not canon. Not only was Palpatine disarmed, but even his Force assaults were being overwhelmed and deflected by Yoda, and "it looked as though the Dark Lord is doomed." And then, after again vowing to destroy Palpatine, Yoda abandons his position of superiority.
Such a move contradicts Yoda's stated goal and either plants him firmly in the realm of retarded (unlikely) or that part is not canon, since it contradicts the movie.
Originally posted by Gideon
While I certainly accept the fact that Yoda isn't perfect, what sort of mistake are you suggesting? I could even accept something so extraordinarily lame as "MASTER YODA moves to deliver the final blow to the Sith Lord but slips on a BANANA PEEL and plummets to a lower pod", but the script is really quite clear: Yoda just decided to abandon his position of dominance....Which, given the circumstances and stakes, opens up the possibility for Yoda being a contender for the Biggest Retard Ever.
But I don't think he's retarded.
Well I didn't mean a mistake like the banana peel lol. I thought of it as a FPS game kinda. Ever shooting at someone, and you make a decision that you think is a good tactical one, perhaps backing around a corner, or rushing, and it ends up being the wrong move? You are undoubtably trying to kill the opponent, and what you did you thought was best at the time, in the heat of battle, but it just didn't work out.
Maybe that doesn't apply, sorry if thats the case.
Originally posted by Vorpal RuinYou don't survive almost 900 years of dangerous activity by hesitating, making split-second mistakes, and just generally f*cking-up a fight. You also don't survive that long in a till-death duel with the most powerful of Sith Lords by doing the same.
Well I didn't mean a mistake like the banana peel lol. I thought of it as a FPS game kinda. Ever shooting at someone, and you make a decision that you think is a good tactical one, perhaps backing around a corner, or rushing, and it ends up being the wrong move? You are undoubtably trying to kill the opponent, and what you did you thought was best at the time, in the heat of battle, but it just didn't work out.Maybe that doesn't apply, sorry if thats the case.
The script doesn't specify why Yoda jumped to the lower pod. The script, if anything, is very generalized/summarized. It doesn't always go into great detail (although it does at other times). It's more or less an outline of what happens, while leaving room for cause or other filler material. So, with that being said; it does not dictate that Yoda made a tactical error or an illogical move. He could have jumped for any number of reasons.
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
You don't survive almost 900 years of dangerous activity by hesitating, making split-second mistakes, and just generally f*cking-up a fight. You also don't survive that long in a till-death duel with the most powerful of Sith Lords by doing the same.
You could say something very similar for everyone of the 'greatest' athletes ever. Except everyone makes mistakes. I'm not sure why you two think imperfection=retardation. If thats the case, we are all retarded.